Vendel
Banned
The point is that Tifa was called someones lover.
If it isn't Cloud I would like to know who she is passing it out to.
Thus the blunt language.
The First Epic LTD of TLS forums
- Thread starter Strangelove
- Start date
- Status
The point is that Tifa was called someones lover.
If it isn't Cloud I would like to know who she is passing it out to.
Thus the blunt language.
Vendel
Banned
We all would
And Cleriths won't answer because they believe it was either her character trait being described (she's like a lover, NOT she IS a lover) or that she's just a nice person.
Except that is complete bullshit.
paoo
♥
Assuming the Clerith scenario, where Tifa confesses love and Cloud's all, "let's be friends, babe!", for him to say that to her the next day ... well, I hereby nominate Cloud for the Insensitive Asshole of the Year award.
And don't forget, Tifa wasn't sad or angry with him. Well... she felt alone, but Cloud cheered her up. (And that was cute <3) And another weird thing is, they both felt embarrassed.
Tifa falls together/stands in some kind of position and feels embarrassed, everyone watches her, while Cloud turns away and put his hand on his neck.
..........Why couldn't be Aerith? You st00pid rapid Cloti.
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Isabella
Your Mom
We all would
And Cleriths won't answer because they believe it was either her character trait being described (she's like a lover, NOT she IS a lover) or that she's just a nice person.
I've also seen them argue that she can be a koibito to Johnny, Rude, Barret, etc.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
It's called Cloud's journal.
I just imagine Tifa telling Cloud she loves him and wants to be with him all this and Cloud is like, "I agree, we are so friends"... all it's missing is a
I agree. It IS missing a test subject and two robots.
I am that good
No. And that's why you can't be in the show, Quexi.
Uhm... Cid?
Only if he finds out.
And they don't invite him along.
And don't forget, the very next day Cloud's saying, "I want you with me forevah, in a way that's different from before ..."
Assuming the Clerith scenario, where Tifa confesses love and Cloud's all, "let's be friends, babe!", for him to say that to her the next day ... well, I hereby nominate Cloud for the Insensitive Asshole of the Year award.
And the stupidest man on the planet, too.
Ah, the old personality traits nonsense. Most hilarious. And about as credible as all the other excuses made to try and ignore that quote.
And Bella, didn't the same folks who argued personality traits also argue the Barret/Johnny/Rude nonsense?
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Vendel
Banned
But remember. Koibito is much more significant because
Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
- AKA
- FHS, that cloti bitch
Compilation.
Highwind scene.
'Tis the sex.
But only Cloti fans get the FOURTH, Super-High Affection scene where we see pixelated ass and lots of "..." "Don't stop!" "..." in time to hip wiggles (ala Don Corneo style) and bow chick wow wow music.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
No. All sisters are exactly alike and are unchanging. Any indviduality a woman has vanishes when she becomes a sister. And you can of course be a sister without having to be a sister TO anyone. It just magically happens.
Now now, don't mislead them. It's Barret's pixelated ass wiggling.
The C/T sex is rendered in Hi Def FMV.
Shadowfox
You look like you need a monkey
So Tifa's character traits are like a mother, like a lover, and like an ally?
I could see how 'like a mother' can be taken to describe traits, but definitely not the other two. How would one describe character traits that's like a lover or like an ally, anyway?
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
http://partner.jp.msn.com/channel/index.aspx
I saw a website ad for this 'koibito finding' site. But you know. I guess since they don't mention anyone's names it's just for finding nice people.
I wasn't being seriously critical or anything. The problem isn't you bringing it up. The problem is people choosing who to believe and who not to simply on how they feeling about what's been said and double standards, and not for any legitimate reason. Which gets annoying
The fact that people will say stuff like 'hito is a rabbit Cloti' in the first place is the problem. I've yet to have one person bring up a mistake I've made, or something I've supposedly twisted. So if they have any examples of what rapid Cloti things I've said, I'd like to hear them.
Assuming it's not going to be stuff like "posts in Faith" or "had C/T sig" again. Because apparently posting in their threads or at their forum does nothing to effect your neutrality.
Though if I wanted to be a rabid Cloti, I would probably start by not disagreeing with the C/T stuff people bring up here/elsewhere Like the 'dim love' thing which I've brought up a while ago but can't look for right now because the site is down while I'm writing this. I don't disagree with people out of some love of certain fictional characters making it with out. I just disagree with people because I don't agree with what they've said.
I don't say no one's pointed out my mistakes out of arrogance, since I know I've made mistakes and that's just the stuff I've noticed. I'm not going to flip out if someone tells me I'm wrong, I've said before I'd gladly listen to criticism. But when it comes to this shit that never happens. It's just the automatic assumption that it must be. Because Cloti? In my FFVII?
(Unless you act like the koi--bito guy on the CoL article on the main site, in which case lulz, no.)
If I don't agree with some one, I'll teal deer it and point out what I don't agree with or think is wrong. And I'd accept people doing the same to me (if it made sense). But yeah. People don't.
And now the site is working again I can stop this tl;dr now
I saw a website ad for this 'koibito finding' site. But you know. I guess since they don't mention anyone's names it's just for finding nice people.
Sorry, there was something missing from my last post.Look I was trying to derail the topic from where it was going okay? It was late and I didn't know what else to post so I just threw that stuff out there
Again I say, if it's such a problem I won't bring it up again
I wasn't being seriously critical or anything. The problem isn't you bringing it up. The problem is people choosing who to believe and who not to simply on how they feeling about what's been said and double standards, and not for any legitimate reason. Which gets annoying
The fact that people will say stuff like 'hito is a rabbit Cloti' in the first place is the problem. I've yet to have one person bring up a mistake I've made, or something I've supposedly twisted. So if they have any examples of what rapid Cloti things I've said, I'd like to hear them.
Assuming it's not going to be stuff like "posts in Faith" or "had C/T sig" again. Because apparently posting in their threads or at their forum does nothing to effect your neutrality.
Though if I wanted to be a rabid Cloti, I would probably start by not disagreeing with the C/T stuff people bring up here/elsewhere
Like the 'dim love' thing which I've brought up a while ago but can't look for right now because the site is down while I'm writing this. I don't disagree with people out of some love of certain fictional characters making it with out. I just disagree with people because I don't agree with what they've said.I don't say no one's pointed out my mistakes out of arrogance, since I know I've made mistakes and that's just the stuff I've noticed. I'm not going to flip out if someone tells me I'm wrong, I've said before I'd gladly listen to criticism. But when it comes to this shit that never happens. It's just the automatic assumption that it must be. Because Cloti? In my FFVII?
(Unless you act like the koi--bito guy on the CoL article on the main site, in which case lulz, no.)
If I don't agree with some one, I'll teal deer it and point out what I don't agree with or think is wrong. And I'd accept people doing the same to me (if it made sense
). But yeah. People don't.And now the site is working again I can stop this tl;dr now
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
I kindly asked FFG to take down any translations I made from her site, since she insisted I was now just a biased Cloti doing the best I could/butchering the language, and not the fluent neutral I once was. Keeping some translations up while refusing to listen to what I had to say about others only makes you look like a hypocrite.
As I recall, she went and had a bit of a strop about my request in a private forum I could still see
But there have been plenty of other Japanese speakers there now. Surely one could give some kind of substantial critique.
Dashell
SMILE!
- AKA
- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Fucking sigged.
I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to say, "Uhm according to YOUR arguments, koibito can only mean 'one who loves.' So why is it so important that Aerith uses it? Why were you mad at TLS for using beloved?" I was hoping I could when TNC opened but... at this point
1. I don't think it'll re open
2. I don't think any of them will join in on the debates.
I think I'm gonna gather a bunch of Cleriths on youtube and make my own debate forum
The same friend that exploded a few posts ago that I was talking about really wanted to sign up on CxA to set them straight but I had to pretty much beg her not to. I didn't feel like starting a shit storm.
It's almost like an insult.
Cloud: You know Tifa, you're kinda like an ally to me, but not quite... *walks off*
Tifa: ... what the?
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Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
I think the 'koi bito' page alone contradicts itself over 9000 times.
I got rolled eyes emoticons and "oh, what a surprise, you know a Japanese person" type remarks. (Despite no C/A fan getting these when they bring up the "my Japanese friend/teacher/etc. says [this thing that agrees with C/A dogma]" thing all of a sudden.)
Because they've already got sources they can trust. People's friends they've never even met, and people who can't even read the name of the dictionary they proclaimed was the definite Japanese dictionary.
Because no C/A fan might lie about knowing some Japanese people, or what they were told.
As far as I remember, Resha never really display much Japanese proficiency beyond simple knowledge you could probably find on an anime fan site about learning Japanese. Chibica makes quite a lot of mistakes and, in general, doesn't produce very readable English (some of it being nigh incomprehensible). Saeki, I think, is the best one they've had (since me). But people seem to talk her around to taking things their way (and she made that whole 'aijou' mess).
When she posted what her Japanese teacher told her about 'koibito', it was more in line with C/T fans' views than C/A fans'. To paraphrase: |In this teacher's view A (Tifa) was, to B (Cloud) was all three of the roles mentions. She could be like a mother to him (consoling him when he's in trouble) although she isn't actually one, but it was also a fact that she was an ally and a lover because there's no 'like' there. It could be talking about her personality or roles, but if she had to choose, she'd say it was roles. Saying 'koibito' includes the nuance that the people are dating."
(I think 'like a mother' could be used to describe her personality, but as others have said time and again, it just doesn't make sense with the other two.)
Somehow this got turned around into a confirmation of their existing beliefs, as far as I saw.
Herd of deer tonight
bito' page alone contradicts itself over 9000 times.I've told them, on their forum, about what Japanese people told me about the usage of 'koibito' before.Quexi said:
I got rolled eyes emoticons and "oh, what a surprise, you know a Japanese person" type remarks. (Despite no C/A fan getting these when they bring up the "my Japanese friend/teacher/etc. says [this thing that agrees with C/A dogma]" thing all of a sudden.)
Because they've already got sources they can trust. People's friends they've never even met, and people who can't even read the name of the dictionary they proclaimed was the definite Japanese dictionary.
Because no C/A fan might lie about knowing some Japanese people, or what they were told.
As far as I remember, Resha never really display much Japanese proficiency beyond simple knowledge you could probably find on an anime fan site about learning Japanese. Chibica makes quite a lot of mistakes and, in general, doesn't produce very readable English (some of it being nigh incomprehensible). Saeki, I think, is the best one they've had (since me
). But people seem to talk her around to taking things their way (and she made that whole 'aijou' mess).When she posted what her Japanese teacher told her about 'koibito', it was more in line with C/T fans' views than C/A fans'. To paraphrase: |In this teacher's view A (Tifa) was, to B (Cloud) was all three of the roles mentions. She could be like a mother to him (consoling him when he's in trouble) although she isn't actually one, but it was also a fact that she was an ally and a lover because there's no 'like' there. It could be talking about her personality or roles, but if she had to choose, she'd say it was roles. Saying 'koibito' includes the nuance that the people are dating."
TEACHER
前後を読んでいないから、確かなことはいえませんが、私がこの文章から受ける印象は
Aさんという人(女がいます。
恋人がいます。その恋人にとって、Aさんは、母のようでもあり、戦友であると思います。
「母のように」で「ように」がはいっているのは、実際は「母」ではないからでしょう。
戦友や、恋人に「ように」がはいっていないということは、戦友や恋人であるということが事実だからだと思います。
だから役割でもあり、性格でもある両方をいっていますが、どちらかというと、役割かな?
その恋人にとって、Aさんは、いろんな意味でお母さんのような立場(たとえば、困ったときになぐさめてくれるとか
だと思います。
「恋人」って相思ではない。
って、「恋人」は基本的に相思相愛でしょ。
だと私は思います。最近の若い人の日本語の使いかたはわからないけど。
片思いという場合は、「Aさんが恋する人」
になると思います。または「Aさんの思い人」になると思う。
この場合は、片思いじゃない。
その議論している人は、日本人ですか?チャイニーズですか?
もしチャイニーズなら、「恋人」がいわゆる日本の「恋する人」で
片思いになる可能性あると思います。
---
SAEKI
野村さんはその答えを内緒にしていました。
しかし、このインタビューだけは、Aさんの立場は恋人っていました。
「Aさんはいろんな立場をあわせもっているんですね。母のようでもあり、恋人でもあり、一緒に戦ってきた戦友でもある。」
ですから、これは本当にAさんはBさんの彼女といっていましたか。
二人の日本人(若い人は「こいびと」という言葉は日本であまり使わないと言いました。「こいびと」は漢字に書いたら、「恋する人」と「片思い」の意味になってしまいました。「こいびと」は仮名にかいたら、「彼女・彼氏」も「恋する人」も「片思い」の意味になってしまいました。
先生、どう思いますか。これを確かめてくださいませんか。
---
TEACHER
日本でいうところの「恋人」は「Lovers」とは違うと思います。
日本語と英語とではかなりニュアンスがかわってくると思います。
多分、多くの日本人は「恋人」といえば、多分相思相愛だと思います。
「彼女は彼の恋人です」といった場合、「つきあっている」というニュアンスが含まれます。
「恋する人」は完全に片思いですが。
日本人と西洋の人の恋愛に関する意識の差もあると思います。
そのあたりは、説明しても難しいかも。若い人は「恋人」とは使わないといいますが
そのあたりは私もよくわかりません。
言葉は日々変わるものです。と、高校の国語の先生がいっていました。
100年で10%の言葉の意味が変わるそうです。ということは、10年で1%の言葉の意味が
変わるらしい。「死語」という言葉もあるぐらいだしね。
まあ、クリエーターの野村さんがどういう意味でいったのか、
わかりませんが、作者の意図しない意味に取られることは往々にしてあることです。
小説などでもね。
ハハハ、あまり、いい説明になっていませんが。すみません。
ちなみに「彼女、彼氏」という場合は、片思いではなく、両思いです。
前後を読んでいないから、確かなことはいえませんが、私がこの文章から受ける印象は
Aさんという人(女
がいます。恋人がいます。その恋人にとって、Aさんは、母のようでもあり、戦友であると思います。
「母のように」で「ように」がはいっているのは、実際は「母」ではないからでしょう。
戦友や、恋人に「ように」がはいっていないということは、戦友や恋人であるということが事実だからだと思います。
だから役割でもあり、性格でもある両方をいっていますが、どちらかというと、役割かな?
その恋人にとって、Aさんは、いろんな意味でお母さんのような立場(たとえば、困ったときになぐさめてくれるとか
だと思います。
「恋人」って相思ではない。
って、「恋人」は基本的に相思相愛でしょ。
だと私は思います。最近の若い人の日本語の使いかたはわからないけど。
片思いという場合は、「Aさんが恋する人」
になると思います。または「Aさんの思い人」になると思う。
この場合は、片思いじゃない。
その議論している人は、日本人ですか?チャイニーズですか?
もしチャイニーズなら、「恋人」がいわゆる日本の「恋する人」で
片思いになる可能性あると思います。
---
SAEKI
野村さんはその答えを内緒にしていました。
しかし、このインタビューだけは、Aさんの立場は恋人っていました。
「Aさんはいろんな立場をあわせもっているんですね。母のようでもあり、恋人でもあり、一緒に戦ってきた戦友でもある。」
ですから、これは本当にAさんはBさんの彼女といっていましたか。
二人の日本人(若い人
は「こいびと」という言葉は日本であまり使わないと言いました。「こいびと」は漢字に書いたら、「恋する人」と「片思い」の意味になってしまいました。「こいびと」は仮名にかいたら、「彼女・彼氏」も「恋する人」も「片思い」の意味になってしまいました。先生、どう思いますか。これを確かめてくださいませんか。
---
TEACHER
日本でいうところの「恋人」は「Lovers」とは違うと思います。
日本語と英語とではかなりニュアンスがかわってくると思います。
多分、多くの日本人は「恋人」といえば、多分相思相愛だと思います。
「彼女は彼の恋人です」といった場合、「つきあっている」というニュアンスが含まれます。
「恋する人」は完全に片思いですが。
日本人と西洋の人の恋愛に関する意識の差もあると思います。
そのあたりは、説明しても難しいかも。若い人は「恋人」とは使わないといいますが
そのあたりは私もよくわかりません。
言葉は日々変わるものです。と、高校の国語の先生がいっていました。
100年で10%の言葉の意味が変わるそうです。ということは、10年で1%の言葉の意味が
変わるらしい。「死語」という言葉もあるぐらいだしね。
まあ、クリエーターの野村さんがどういう意味でいったのか、
わかりませんが、作者の意図しない意味に取られることは往々にしてあることです。
小説などでもね。
ハハハ、あまり、いい説明になっていませんが。すみません。
ちなみに「彼女、彼氏」という場合は、片思いではなく、両思いです。
(I think 'like a mother' could be used to describe her personality, but as others have said time and again, it just doesn't make sense with the other two.)
Somehow this got turned around into a confirmation of their existing beliefs, as far as I saw.
Herd of deer tonight
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Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
- AKA
- FHS, that cloti bitch
Here's the thing I've noticed about C/A fans on that site in particular. They are ducklings. Wary, skittish, little ducklings that do nothing more than follow. There is no contention there, even when alternative facts become blatantly obvious. It's creepily cult-like. What the leader says must be so and there is no counter argument--and I'm not even talking about arguing C/T. I mean simply calling people out on their bullshit.
It makes their arguments all less valid, and even those that can come up with legitimate points, those points are overshadowed by the fact that the bubbling cauldron of hypocrisy there is running over, unchecked.
It makes their arguments all less valid, and even those that can come up with legitimate points, those points are overshadowed by the fact that the bubbling cauldron of hypocrisy there is running over, unchecked.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
You should all give lots of money to me this site me, so I can fly to Japan in the guise of a reporter wanting to do an interview with Nomura and Nojima, where I will ask them this very important question.
And of course, twist the answer because I love C/T so much
And of course, twist the answer because I love C/T so much
Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
- AKA
- FHS, that cloti bitch
Gimme a minute and I'll go in my basement and
EDIT: Nomura says: "The term Koibito is one of much debate, and I feel it's up to the fans to--"
Nojima says: "Would you cut that shit out! Cloud and Tifa are lovers. Period. Did you play the game? It's not a damn Rubbik's Cube, okay? Now give me some water, bi-- **mmmph**"
Yeah, that's all I got. Still a mystery...
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Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
I realise you're mostly joking, but for the sake of those who don't, drama requires a disagreement be personal in nature. Thus far, all of the disagreements brought to the forum relating to the LTD aren't personal at all.I'm sorry but since when?
- Status