The Love Triangle Debate: Another Turn in the Cycle

[Dante]

I feel like there were scans going around back when this thing was first released, but I can't seem to find one. I would have swore I saved one, but I guess not.

Let's ask Tet. He might be able to get us a scan.

 

[Tetsujin]

I have the book but I am not at home.

 

[Dante]

Can you scan it when you are home?

 

[Dashell]

From my general understanding, If you want to say "my friend who is male," you would say "ein Freund von mir," a (male) friend of mine. If you want to say "my boyfriend," you would say, "mein Freund." The noun itself does not distinguish between friend or SO. If I were reading the translation above (ihr Freund), I would immediately assume that it's talking about "her boyfriend." If the translator wanted to imply otherwise, I believe it would be "ein Freund von ihr," a friend of hers.

I think there are some cases where people will assume you're talking strictly about a friend, like if you're female and you say, "meine Freundin," or male and saying "mein Freund," but I never got around to asking about that ...

Source: my German instructors who said they had a laugh over reading about everyone's multiple girlfriends and boyfriends in our essays.

LMAO @ the last line

Question though, wouldn't we assume Freund meant friend in this case, simply because Liebster is the word that means lover/boyfriend? Or else we'd have, "Cloud was her lover and her lover."

Hey Q. I think no one's actually seen an official scan. The unofficial translation apparantly was all anyone could find. Anastar questioned whether Clerith was canon after these two translations since it has not been translated into English yet. Other people disagree and say Clerith is canon which would be cool and is my personal opinion. That's probably what you are referring to.

Oh well then we should get a scan going... although if we have the text I'm not sure if a scan would make a difference

But yeah I thought someone posted that some German Cleriths or some people in German said the "lover" part didn't make sense. But maybe that was one of the 1000 other times this discussion came up.

 

[Ⓐaron]

As someone who took several years of German in college, I've never heard of the distinction Skan talked about.

But yeah, Quex is correct that this would make the translation redundant, afaict.

 

[Skan]

My German is pretty shitty, and I have not taken several years of it, but all my German instructors mentioned it, and one is a native German speaker. I wonder if it could be a dialect thing though? But some notes I gathered from my additional trawling:

Wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Freund

Freund and Freundin may refer to either a platonic friend or a boyfriend/girlfriend. In general, "mein Freund" (my friend) refers to a boyfriend, whereas "ein Freund von mir" (a friend of mine) refers to a non-romantic friendship. Similary, one might refer to "meine Freundin" for a girlfriend or "eine Freundin von mir" for a non-romantic female friend.

A UTexas page: http://coerll.utexas.edu/mfn/lu/der-freunddie-freundin

2) In German, "Freund(in)" can means both "friend" and "boy/girlfriend," so it is important to pay attention to the context in which it is used. Typically, if there is a possessive pronoun ("mein(e) Freund(in)", "ihr Freund"), that means it is a romantic relationship. To specify that it is a non-romantic male friend, one uses "ein Freund von mir" (a friend of mine).

About German: http://german.about.com/od/vocabularytips/a/German-Mistake.htm

(The whole page is pretty informative, and I don't really want to quote it at length.)

@ Dashell: I dunno, but keep in mind that language and writing can be extremely redundant for no good reason! I know I've written sentences before that were redundant, simply because they sounded good to my ears.

 

[Ⓐaron]

It sounds like a distinction that can exist, but isn't universal. That said, I haven't taken anything related to the language in over five years, so my memory is probably a bit hazy on some of the details.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I'm not sure it's worth arguing about tbh, as Tres pointed out earlier (as have Tres/others a number of times before) it all means the same thing anyway and that Nojima clearly meant it literally/to be taken in a romantic manner

 

[Dashell]

@ Dashell: I dunno, but keep in mind that language and writing can be extremely redundant for no good reason! I know I've written sentences before that were redundant, simply because they sounded good to my ears.

But if the original said "friend and lover" it would make sense to use a translation that's as close to the original as possible. The original didn't say "Lover and lover" so we should assume the translation shouldn't either.

EDIT
aww, what happened to my MLP FFVII image in my sig? D:

 

[annacamille]

Am I allowed to revive my favorite thread of all threads?

In any case - question for you all - would you rather that the remake make it clear who the true pairing of the game is (CLOTI, duh!) or would you rather it be as "ambiguous" (not that it was really that ambiguous) in the remake?

Personally, I would prefer to see "sweeter" moments between Cloud/Tifa (like the mideel scenes), but I get that this isn't exactly a Disney Princess movie. Oh well... a girl can dream lol

 

[Channy]

I'd prefer they leave it ambiguous. Each side has its own proof and you don't want to alienate a whole section of the fandom. (Much less piss off the Cleriths. You know how we get)

 

[Starling]

I don't really like the idea of using that excuse to shy away from being more explicit about portraying a pairing in canon. I mean, it's not like Aerith is still alive to pursue a relationship with Cloud. In fact, ACC seems to suggest she and Zack are spending time together now that they're both dead.

 

[Flintlock]

My biggest hope for the LTD in the remake is that it still ends on disc one.

 

[Roger]

If any post-game material is in the game as some people think, it think they should definitely do away with any ambiguouty. I hate how it held back Cloud's life in AC.

 

[Eerie]

I kinda want it to not be ambiguous anymore, just for the sake of letting this LTD thing RIP IN PIECE.

I think if the scene under the Highwind has a kiss or something, I guess it could lead to people stop arguing. Or not, pf.

 

[Shademp]

*sees the LTD thread revived*

...AGAIN!

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

 

[Elisa Maza]

Am I allowed to revive my favorite thread of all threads?

In any case - question for you all - would you rather that the remake make it clear who the true pairing of the game is (CLOTI, duh!) or would you rather it be as "ambiguous" (not that it was really that ambiguous) in the remake?

Personally, I would prefer to see "sweeter" moments between Cloud/Tifa (like the mideel scenes), but I get that this isn't exactly a Disney Princess movie. Oh well... a girl can dream lol

Bring the "Cloud-and-Tifa-get-out-of-the-chocobo-stable" scene, I say. Hey, even show the beginning of them getting freaky with each other.

Really, it's so simple to end this debate in this remake...

 

[AerithLives]

So...have we ever done a poll on this? DEMOCRACY!

 

[Carlie]

10 months this thread was dead. ;_ ; We almost made it to a year.



If I'm going to be miserable with the LTD being an active thing again, I want the ending of the remake to take place in the present and be Cloud and Tifa's wedding. With ghost Zack and Aerith holding hands in the back so I can laugh my ass off when the shit hits the fan.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I went for a nap. I had a dream. That the LTD thread had been revived.

*sees the LTD thread revived*

...AGAIN!

Once isn't enough.

**

At any rate apart from Shadey I agree the most with Channy so far. Square Enix knows they have a fan base they can pander to and/or exploit, and as much as neither side might like to admit it they like to provide fan service for both in order to ensure they will continue to get future £££. Pretty sure I've said it before and I'll say it again, each and both pairings are valid/genuine enough and relevant, in their own ways and to the extent Square Enix recognizes them, etc, and provides to cover all bases (Cloud and Aerith have been confirmed to be called lovers in four languages now, don't you know? Oh and they were featured this year on official Square Enix stuff for this year's White and Valentine's Day, and have Record Keeper goodies )

Spoiler

I'm sorry I had to

Honestly though I would love to see lots of Clerith and Cloti moments in HD both old and hopefully new, it's something I'm especially looking forward to, like the Clerith date in the park, Cloud telling Barret to take care of Tifa before he falls from the plate, little chibi Cloud and Tifa at the well, shooting stars (Tifa's dress is going to be gooooorg, same with Wall Market, Aerith's too), little moments like that <3

I'll post a proper list later

 

[AerithLives]

I know, I know, I couldnt resist!

You do realise, you do not have to answer.
The pull is too strong!

 

[Ⓐaron]

So...have we ever done a poll on this? DEMOCRACY!

At least one of the old threads had a poll. I think multiple ones did.

I concur with the general dismay at the revival of this thread. It would have been nice if we could've made it to a year with no posts in here.

 

[Channy]

Not with a remake on the horizon!

 

[Cthulhu]

CLERITH IS CANNON *runs*

anyway, I for one hope they'll keep it ambiguous - tl;dr arguments on the forums == advertising income for the site,