The Official "Where will Rebirth end?" Thread

Where do you think Rebirth will end?

  • At Junon! I'm serious!

  • Nibelheim to Nibelheim, the perfect bookends. A real Nibelheim sandwich!

  • Temple of the Ancients. Can't ask for a better final dungeon

  • The Forgotten City, because you know......

  • Northern Crater. It's far away, but too good to pass up

  • The Weapon attack on Junon, the Highwind takes to the skies!

  • Even further. You're going to need to explain this one...

  • Unknown, the story will go so far off the rails by then


Results are only viewable after voting.

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#2
Since this is a trilogy, there's no reason to end in Nibelheim. We should be getting ALL party members in Rebirth. No reason at all not to.

And that means we can end this at the Northern Crater with the Weapons awakening. That's the perfect bookend to the second entry of the saga. Real "Empire Strikes Back" energy. The tension and narrative end point there would be perfect.
 

Jimmy XH

Pro Adventurer
#3
Northern Crater with Jenova/Sephiroth as a final boss, with the handing of the black materia and the summoning of meteor and WEAPON being the final showpiece?

I’m absolutely convinced that Tifa’s line in the trailer is from Sephiroth’s illusion in the crater, hence why I think it ends there. Any further is just silly…
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
#6
Yeah I’m more sure about Jenova being the final boss than I am about a particular endpoint, I’m torn between Forgotten City & Northern Crater and a Jenova fight works for both…not to mention I find the prospect of bookending at Nibelheim somewhat overrated especially when there’s only so much story in between
 

GuardBreak

Rookie Adventurer
#7
My hunch tells me it's going to be City of the Ancients. One of the most iconic places in FF7 and the place where a major event that fans are speculating about happens in the original game.

However, similar to part 1, the events that happen there will be different.
 

waw

Pro Adventurer
#8
I'm fairly torn between:
1. Temple of the Ancients
2. City of the Ancients
3. Northern Crater

I think the Northern Crater is the most cinematic ending, it is climatic, chances for major surreal fight, revisiting the Nibelheim flashback, the meetings of the Freed Sephiroth and the real body, the WEAPONs, all of it. Major excitement. It is the best place to end this in a trilogy. Especially with losing Cloud right at the end, possibly being a big fight for the party. The Whirlwind Maze is an excellent final dungeon. The problem here is that it is SO far out. The glacier? The snow fields? Even Icicle Inn and probably Modeoheim? It's all just so much. Especially given that at that point, we've pretty much explored the entire world: Midgar in Remake, and then Junon, Corel Desert, Gold Saucer, Nibelheim, Cosmo Canyon, Wutai, Rocket Town, and all of the dungeons in between? The Temple of the Ancients would almost be a midpoint in that game. It's just so much. I can't imagine it'll be the case. It would be the best choice.

But then how much does it leave for part III? Arguably not nearly as much content, unless it was ballooned up and goes off the rails. Revisiting all the other assets would make some of it easy, though. Would players enjoy starting a game with Tifa? I think so, but being that they cut her playable chapter.... I don't know.

Okay, so City of the Ancients? What a somber note to end the game on. Not cinematic at all. Just heavy and sad and I don't know if that's really how you want to end things for players. Does it make them really want to return? I mean great dungeons. The Slumbering Forest could be wild in this. And it's a natural point for Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth to collide - killing Aerith off without her and Zack reuniting will be flippin' weird. (And I assume Zack is in this world until we are firmly told otherwise. I know the Stamps are weird.) Great endboss in Jenova. Can be thematic. Powerful.

Temple of the Ancients - probably best for pacing what's left of OG, and definitely raises the stakes. I imagine if so, we see Zack arrive to stop Cloud from killing Aerith here and then Zack and Aerith leave for the City of the Ancients together. That will leave people with major questions. Second Cloud could be present (and maybe that one will get used by Sephiroth?) We fight the big Wall, think we're good, then Sephiroth/Jenova shows up, new big fight, Cloud goes nuts. Zack cuts in. Crowd goes wild. It'll be trippy in there, and it is probably the best place for exposition and new info to get dumped. What exactly are the Whispers? What happened when we killed the Harbinger? The Temple of the Ancients and the Well of Time would be the best place to learn that. All in the final stages, almost paralleling seeing the hologram room in Shinra Building in Remake. We have a full party, everything escalates. It would work.

This would leave Part III with the biggest excitement, energy, and rise. We start with the party tracking Zack and Aerith up to the Slumbering Forest and pretty early on get her death story - she's never a party member in the third game. The first third ends with the Northern Crater, we play the middle part as Tifa and Cid (or whoever), and the final third is back in the Northern Crater. This is honestly probably the best way to space out what we have left.

I agree with Mako, it's not the most naturally cinematic ending. But, it'll probably work well.
 
AKA
Minato
#9
While I think the Temple of the Ancients and the Northern Crater would serve as great final dungeons and also serve great opening sequences for the following game, there's a lot to cover but in a trilogy that thing at the Forgotten City is the plot point they'll definitely wanna mark off before getting it out the door. Right now that's where I feel it going.
 

kuroudo

Rookie Adventurer
#10
I think the game can end in forgotten city with aeris death but i hope the game end in junon with tifa and barret seeing meteor falling .

and looking at the trailer and seeing what is mentioned from what is a fact and what is fiction as I believe that this is referring to cloud's memories and I also believe that the title of rebirth is for sephiroth as it is another important moment in the story.
 
#11
My current thoughts, perhaps uninformed, is that the trilogy will entirely take place within disc one of the OG, or go completely off the rails. In the latter case, composition of the story is anyone's guess. I'd have thought more would have been shown otherwise. Granted, now that I think of it, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I dunno :mon:.
 
#12
My current thoughts, perhaps uninformed, is that the trilogy will entirely take place within disc one of the OG, or go completely off the rails. In the latter case, composition of the story is anyone's guess. I'd have thought more would have been shown otherwise. Granted, now that I think of it, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I dunno :mon:.
What do you mean by the Remake trilogy would take place within Disc 1 of the OG? The Remake project ends with Part 3, but you think Part 3 will end at Aerith’s death? Or have you misspoke or something?
 

JBedford

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JBed
#13
Assuming Rebirth stays close to OG events...

Temple of the Ancients seems like an interesting way to end a game (maybe? Keystone+Temple is where the plot starts to pick up after nothing's happened since Junon, ending at Temple feels premature), but I don't think right after the Temple of the Ancients is the best place to start the third title in a trilogy. Maybe it'd work better if they start the game with extra plot for the search for Aerith, where maybe you find out more lore and raise a bunch of death flags.

Forgotten City is a bad place to end things because it's when things go to shit, only for the next game to have to start with things going much more to shit. Although Icicle Inn/Great Glacier seems like it could be an interesting place to start a game. Actually the more I think of this the more this feels acceptable. I agree ending a game with Aerith's death doesn't give it the same hole-in-the-party value it had in the original, but I don't know if the devs care about replicating that.

Although ascending North Crater [Icicle Inn, Great Glacier, Gaea's Cliffs, Whirlwind Maze] isn't best placed at the end of a game either because it's a whole lot of dungeon. It's still something that can be worked with, and I'm guessing they'd be injecting a lot more party interaction than the original.

Junon feels like the great place to start a third game though.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#14
Although ascending North Crater [Icicle Inn, Great Glacier, Gaea's Cliffs, Whirlwind Maze] isn't best placed at the end of a game either because it's a whole lot of dungeon. It's still something that can be worked with, and I'm guessing they'd be injecting a lot more party interaction than the original.
Wait, why wouldn't that be the best place? That's why it's the perfect place. That's your end game dungeon. Your Kefka's Tower, Ultimecia's Castle, Memoria, etc.

For a comparison of scale and depth, I expect (and hope) Rebirth to be as large and long as the full game of FFXV. There's more than enough space and content to make this game a large scale FF entry where you get the whole party and hit the ground running in the quest to fight Sephiroth. It should feel full, as the narrative build up within the story pulls the audience into believing they're headed towards the final confrontation, at the end.

A large scale final dungeon rush to reach Sephiroth in the desolate cold Northern Crater would be the perfect backdrop for character interaction, tension and examining the whole party on where they are. Especially if Aerith had been taken from them. That's where the audience would feel the pain. And it'd be most apparent.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
#15
Temple of the Ancients - probably best for pacing what's left of OG, and definitely raises the stakes. I imagine if so, we see Zack arrive to stop Cloud from killing Aerith here and then Zack and Aerith leave for the City of the Ancients together. That will leave people with major questions. Second Cloud could be present (and maybe that one will get used by Sephiroth?) We fight the big Wall, think we're good, then Sephiroth/Jenova shows up, new big fight, Cloud goes nuts. Zack cuts in. Crowd goes wild. It'll be trippy in there, and it is probably the best place for exposition and new info to get dumped. What exactly are the Whispers? What happened when we killed the Harbinger? The Temple of the Ancients and the Well of Time would be the best place to learn that. All in the final stages, almost paralleling seeing the hologram room in Shinra Building in Remake. We have a full party, everything escalates. It would work.
Assuming Rebirth stays close to OG events...

Temple of the Ancients seems like an interesting way to end a game (maybe? Keystone+Temple is where the plot starts to pick up after nothing's happened since Junon, ending at Temple feels premature), but I don't think right after the Temple of the Ancients is the best place to start the third title in a trilogy. Maybe it'd work better if they start the game with extra plot for the search for Aerith, where maybe you find out more lore and raise a bunch of death flags.
This is me consistent with Temple of Ancient in "How many Parts" thread (lmao I feel like I dont have supporter for this as majority pick Nibelheim). But that's because I always assumed it'd be four parts with Northern Crater in part 3 ending, but I was wrong. So I pick Northern Crater or even Unknown this time.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#17
And they gotta make it hurt. The narrative tension and conflict inflicted by basically having Sephiroth win by summoning Meteor, breaking Cloud in half and doing you-know-what to you-know-who makes it land an incredibly powerful 1-2 punch on the audience. The stakes will feel real. They already got over half the audience feeling optimistic going into the second act of a trilogy.

If that's not the perfect set up for a downer cliffhanger, I don't know what is. Ironically I just finished watching Max's reaction to the stream, and he said it best.

Prepare to watch the characters suffer. It's going to be awesome. Cause that's what's next :monster:
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#20
Lol yeah I'm not saying it means something, it's just funny because people like max dood keep saying "We're back to the futureing FF7" and then they develop a scene with Zack where he's doing very similar hand and face mannerisms just like Micheal J fox in the film.

I wonder if it's a wink and a nod since a lot of people are speculating on a different timeline.
 
#21
What do you mean by the Remake trilogy would take place within Disc 1 of the OG? The Remake project ends with Part 3, but you think Part 3 will end at Aerith’s death? Or have you misspoke or something?
I mean, it is purely baseless speculation on my part, and I don't know if anything has been said by the developers to contradict what I'm saying, hence me saying "perhaps uninformed". Yes, I think Part 3 will end where Aerith's death traditionally is, but she'll be saved, and that'll be the good ending. How they'll make Part 2 the Empire Strikes Back (with characters at their lowest, etc) if that's the case, I don't know. The death of another OG character perhaps, which FFVII Reremake released in 2048 will retcon.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#22
That'd... pretty much leave an entire half of the game left undone. I'm not sure why you think they'd just abandon their story half way. :huh:

The Remake series is a trilogy, and it ends on the third game. So the whole story would need to be completed by game 3. Why would S-E leave it off there and just abandon it all?
 
AKA
AlexT
#23
Hmmm, ending Rebirth at the Temple of the Ancients... Personally, I think saving Aerith's death/survival for the first 10-20% of Part 3 would be real awkward. It's such a massive event to open a game with when the buildup isn't in place. Yes, you could say that the entirety of Rebirth builds it up, but I don't think that would be effective storytelling. Dividing the buildup and payoff of that plot point between two games would ultimately hurt both. Rebirth would feel unsatisfying and Part 3 would feel oddly paced. Considering the devs want each part of this project to be approachable for new players, most recently making the bold statement that Rebirth is a great starting point, I don't think they're keen to split it up either.

I also read in the other topic how the Temple of the Ancients could be expanded to be a satisfying ending. Hey, it's possible, look at how they expanded the events after Motorball in Remake. However, we in the gaming landscape know what's to come. To fall just short of "FFVII's big spoiler" would be... unfortunate.

For me it's between the Forgotten City and the Northern Crater. I want to start my analysis by looking at the original game's three different "pacings":
  1. Linear with minor sidequests (Midgar)
  2. Wide exploration. Introduction of the world map, vehicles, and expansive sidequests, but mandatory towns are still done in order (Kalm to the Norther Crater)
  3. Open exploration. The Highwind allows players to zip around the planet in seconds. Players are immediately asked to locate Mideel on their own. Later, players are given the option of what mandatory event to do first, Fort Condor or North Corel (Weapon attack on Junon to Meteorfall)
The advantage of splitting the Remake Project across these three different pacings is that it gives the development team a clear "game type" to build. They don't have to mix linear and wide exploration game designs, they can focus all of the game's systems on one area. I suspect this was a huge factor in selecting Midgar as the endpoint for Part 1.

Additionally, relegating the original's open exploration to its own game allows them to start Part 3 with a banger of an event before players receive the Highwind: the Weapon attack on Junon. This would play almost identically to Final Fantasy X-2 where players were given access to the airship Celsius after its bombastic opening.

It may seem like there won't be enough events between the Weapon attack on Junon and Meteorfall to make Part 3 a long enough game. However, I imagine Wutai will be moved there, plus they'll need room for all the new developments involving Zack.

At this point you're probably thinking "gee cold_spirit is really gunning for Rebirth to end at the Northern Crater". Not gonna lie, I think that would be ideal. But do I believe they can actually go that far???

I will continue to use Remake as a reference point and say that we should expect Rebirth to be ~20 chapters. Additionally, I predict that Rebirth will continue centering chapters around locations. With that in mind, here's how I'd structure the game:

Chapter 1 - Nibelheim Incident part 1
Chapter 2 - Nibelheim Incident part 2
Chapter 3 - Kalm / Badland
Chapter 4 - Chocobo Farm / Wetland
Chapter 5 - Mythril Mine
Chapter 6 - Fort Condor
Chapter 7 - Under Junon / Polluted Coast
Chapter 8 - Junon
Chapter 9 - Cruise Liner
Chapter 10 - Costa del Sol / Vacation Coast
Chapter 11 - Mt Corel / North Corel
Chapter 12 - Gold Saucer
Chapter 13 - Desert Prison
Chapter 14 - Gongaga / Jungle
Chapter 15 - Cosmo Canyon / Cave of the Gi
Chapter 16 - Nibelheim / Shinra Manor
Chapter 17 - Mt Nibel
Chapter 18 - Rocket Town / Grassland
Chapter 19 - Gold Saucer revisited
Chapter 20 - Temple of the Ancients
Chapter 21 - Bone Village / Sleeping Forest
Chapter 22 - Forgotten City

I feel like going any further is pushing it. That's why I've chosen "the Forgotten City".

I've read people's reasoning that ending on the Forgotten City is problematic because it won't allow the devs to reproduce the emotions around Aerith's death as it was in the original game. I think that's wild. There is no way to make Aerith's death at the Forgotten City shocking anymore. It's gaming's equivalent of "Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father" (heeey, another reference to The Empire Strikes Back in this thread, what a movie).

The devs have already shown that they aren't afraid to change the emotions around aspects of the original game. They don't follow any strict rules. Case and point is Sephiroth's presence in Remake. Kitase himself openly shared that he felt the "Jaws" approach for Sephiroth wouldn't work for Remake. Instead, they leaned hard the opposite way and introduced Sephiroth almost as soon as possible.

To recap, I don't think delaying the payoff of Aerith's death/survival to Part 3 is satisfying, but I also don't think the development team can push it all the way to the Northern Crater. To me, the Forgotten City sits in the perfect "goldilocks zone". All the buildup will actually go somewhere and it keeps the scope of Rebirth around the same as Remake's.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#24
There may be no way to reproduce the emotions around Aerith's death, but you can most certainly reproduce the structural, thematic and tangible impacts of it. Taking Aerith away before going into the final dungeon gauntlet of the game and facing off against the main antagonist would be an extremely painful and effective gut punch inflicted on the audience. Fitting for the 2nd part of a trilogy.

A well done and extremely thoughtful analysis as always, but I just don't agree with that conclusion. :monster:

Nomura and especially Nojima and Kitase are.... authorial sadists. They are especially eager to turn the emotional knife when it comes to hitting the player hard where it hurts, especially when you least expect it. Especially mid-way near the end. They did it as recently as SoP; for those who know, you know. They are unafraid of making things hurt and I really don't think they'd shy away from doing the thing they are known for, especially if it will punctuate the downer moment that takes place during the second act of FFVII. It just wouldn't make sense to land that moment at the conclusion when it won't hurt as much.
 
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JBedford

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JBed
#25
Wait, why wouldn't that be the best place? That's why it's the perfect place. That's your end game dungeon. Your Kefka's Tower, Ultimecia's Castle, Memoria, etc.

For a comparison of scale and depth, I expect (and hope) Rebirth to be as large and long as the full game of FFXV. There's more than enough space and content to make this game a large scale FF entry where you get the whole party and hit the ground running in the quest to fight Sephiroth. It should feel full, as the narrative build up within the story pulls the audience into believing they're headed towards the final confrontation, at the end.

A large scale final dungeon rush to reach Sephiroth in the desolate cold Northern Crater would be the perfect backdrop for character interaction, tension and examining the whole party on where they are. Especially if Aerith had been taken from them. That's where the audience would feel the pain. And it'd be most apparent.
Yeah, you're right. I was thinking with the context of the original game. The original had a bit of a sense of defeatedness... trudging through difficult terrain to see things through, and leaving the player alone with their thoughts. Also it is rather long, not really a rush. If they made it a final dungeon they'd have to change that context, and make it tighter.

The party regroup at Icicle Inn, and Cloud needs to create a sense of tension and urgency. Great Glacier tests the party (probably shorter and more linear, with the danger of the area shown more through environment, animation, and events). In front of Gaea's Cliff at Holzoff's Cabin, Cloud convinces the party they are getting close. Gaea's Cliff remains a bit of a slog and could open itself up to more tough battles with the local fauna. And then Whirlwind Maze is mostly story with Jenova DEATH to top it off.

If that stuff was at the start of the game they wouldn't be as much need for a sense of urgency and they could stretch it out more. Cold open of them walking through a blizzard to reach Icicle Inn. Icicle Inn has the plot catch-up, and gives the player more to do at Icicle Inn. Why not a snowboarding minigame? (but still somber, cut the balloons) Add more interesting exploration elements to the Great Glacier, and leave Gaea's Ciffs to slowly build up the tension while still being a more typical dungeon. Also Whirlwind Maze could still be a bit of a dungeon without screwing with pacing.
 
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