The OG+the Compilation

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
#2
Okay, these actually go in here so I'm responding in here.

But Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa are in an established love triangle (as stated in the OG gaming manual).

The reason Tifa isn't jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for Zack is because Zack isn't in the love triangle.

It is specifically stated that Tifa is jealous of Cloud's feelings for Aerith because Aerith is Tifa's "love rival."

Until other people are added to this love triangle, it only takes common sense to know why Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for her "love rival" Aerith Gainsborough.

As we all know, the hero is stated to "waver" between both heroines. Tifa is jealous because Cloud continues to "waver" to Aerith, even in death.

Is the friend your wife is jealous of a member of your love triangle?

Is your friend called your wife's "love rival"?

Unless you start to "waver" between your wife & friend, your example is irrelevant.
No, because the point of my example is that Jealousy on one person's part is no indication of the romance on another person's part. It's why I don't point to Aerith being Jealous of Tifa getting to live together with Cloud in Maiden.

For years, Ryu & others have tried to dismiss Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith by saying he also has continued feelings for Zack.

But the clear distinction is that only Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa are in the officially established love triangle.

The Zack counterpoint is irrelevant. Zack is being used as a red herring.

Tifa isn't jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for Zack. Why? Because Zack isn't Tifa’s "love rival" like Aerith is.

Remember: Cloud only "wavers" between Aerith & Tifa. Cloud never "wavers" to Zack.

Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued wavering for her "love rival" Aerith.

Until Ryu is in an officially established love triangle and starts to waver towards his wife's "love rival," his example is irrelevant.

And the reason I'm so adamant about this is because we have heard FOR YEARS the whole... "Well, Cloud has continued feelings for Zack, too!!" nonsense.
You're comparing a moment from literally the first week Cloud knew Aerith existed to his continuing guilt over Zack and Aerith two years later, guilt that was interfering with his ability to be happy living with Tifa, Marlene and Denzel. Actually, no, it seems to be you saying they're the exact same thing?

I honestly don't know how much clearer I can be:

Ryu, and others, have spent YEARS saying Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith aren't noteworthy because Cloud also has continued feelings for Zack.
What I have been saying is that Advent Children Complete goes out of its way to make Zack and Aerith associated in Cloud's guilt, as he flashes back to both of them when he nearly loses Denzel and Tifa and both are seen leaving the church together, and the added epilogue at Zack's grave site with Denzel.

But the difference is that Zack isn't in the love triangle. Zack isn't Tifa's "love rival." Cloud never "wavers" to Zack.

Ryu's example is apples & oranges when compared to Tifa's jealousy over Aerith.

I won't let this common misconception go unchecked. It has been around for years and needs to officially be debunked.
You are comparing apples to oranges, by comparing Tifa's jealousy to Cloud's guilt.

After years of spreading misinformation, Ryu should finally acknowledge his example isn't valid.

Yet here he is... spewing the same tired nonsense.

If you truly want all of us to move forward (like Aerith does in regards to Zack), hold him accountable for making a false comparison.
From my perspective you are the one making a false comparison.

He (indirectly) replied to my point about Tifa's jealousy.

He did so discreetly. Hoped it would fly under the radar.

After years of misinformation, I'm sick of it, to be honest.
No, I did it because I couldn't be bothered to go back and quote you at the time. And misinformation, seriously?
 

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#4
No, because the point of my example is that Jealousy on one person's part is no indication of the romance on another person's part. It's why I don't point to Aerith being Jealous of Tifa getting to live together with Cloud in Maiden.
Denial of common sense.

It is obvious why Tifa is jealous: Cloud still has feelings for the other girl in the love triangle.

Common sense.

But you have too much pride & are too stubborn to admit what is obvious common sense.

You're comparing a moment from literally the first week Cloud knew Aerith existed to his continuing guilt over Zack and Aerith two years later, guilt that was interfering with his ability to be happy living with Tifa, Marlene and Denzel. Actually, no, it seems to be you saying they're the exact same thing?
Zack isn’t in the love triangle.

You are comparing apples to oranges, by comparing Tifa's jealousy to Cloud's guilt.
I know you’ll say this isn’t valid, but Terra in WoFF confirms Cloud’s continued feelings for Aerith are related to his love for her.

No, I did it because I couldn't be bothered to go back and quote you at the time. And misinformation, seriously?
Don’t believe you.

And your “LTD Over” article (which was retracted) brainwashed the entire FFVII fandom into thinking Cloti is canon.

Thank god the Remake has corrected the record.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
#7
Denial of common sense.

It is obvious why Tifa is jealous: Cloud still has feelings for the other girl in the love triangle.

Common sense.

But you have too much pride & are too stubborn to admit what is obvious common sense.
Wait, are you trying to extrapolate Tifa's moment of jealousy from Disc 1, from Shinra Tower, from the day after she met Aerith to the complicated feelings she feels two years later?

And again, why do you focus so much on this jealousy and not Aerith's jealousy towards Tifa?

Zack isn’t in the love triangle.
This may come as a shock, but not everything is about the love triangle in the plot.

I know you’ll say this isn’t valid, but Terra in WoFF confirms Cloud’s continued feelings for Aerith are related to his love for her.
Okay? And? Are you saying this is a romantic love?

Don’t believe you.
Believe me or don't. The truth is the truth.

And your “LTD Over” article (which was retracted) brainwashed the entire FFVII fandom into thinking Cloti is canon.
Please BB, you give me far too much credit. I am not an evil mastermind with brainwashing powers. You know why a lot of people think C/T is canon? Because the man is happy with her, he raises kids with her. Because the story makes more sense for the hero to be together with the living woman, not the deceased woman seen leaving with another man, a man she was also in love with when she was alive.

Thank god the Remake has corrected the record.
It really hasn't, but again that should go in the remake thread.

Good to see you two kissing and making up after all this time.
You remember Bison's for me it was tuesday speech? It feels a lot like that.
 

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#8
User was warned for bad-faith accusations, dredging up the past, and general promotion of a negative atmosphere
Wait, are you trying to extrapolate Tifa's moment of jealousy from Disc 1, from Shinra Tower, from the day after she met Aerith to the complicated feelings she feels two years later?

And again, why do you focus so much on this jealousy and not Aerith's jealousy towards Tifa?
Aerith is jealous that Tifa is alive and can be with Cloud in the physical world. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith because even in death, Cloud "wavers" to Aerith. Common sense.

Why do you ignore the "wavers" quote?

This may come as a shock, but not everything is about the love triangle in the plot.
Never said it was.

Okay? And? Are you saying this is a romantic love?
Given that Cloud & Aerith are in an officially established love triangle, why would Terra be referring to Cloud's "platonic" love for her?

You are denying common sense again.

Believe me or don't. The truth is the truth.
Gaslighting.

Please BB, you give me far too much credit. I am not an evil mastermind with brainwashing powers. You know why a lot of people think C/T is canon? Because the man is happy with her, he raises kids with her. Because the story makes more sense for the hero to be together with the living woman, not the deceased woman seen leaving with another man, a man she was also in love with when she was alive.
Barret returns to living with Cloud & Tifa in DoC.

Tifa is still listed as a mere "childhood friend" in DoC.

Barret & Tifa are seen driving in a truck together without Cloud in DoC.

CxT share zero moments of romance in DoC (not even a brief moment of physical chemistry).

SE has purposely made CxT's relationship vague. Nothing has been shown definitively or conclusively.

Where is the wedding? Where is the baby? Where is a kiss?

Furthermore...

Tifa admits her & Cloud aren’t a “real” family:
“Tifa turns away, disappointed. “I guess that only works for real families.“ ~Case of Tifa​
Nojima speaks of a premise that things won’t go well between Cloud & Tifa:
“…there’s a premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without geostigma or Sephiroth, this might be the same.” ~Kazushige Nojima​

Marlene observes that Cloud & Tifa aren’t getting along well:
“…she told Barret in a sad voice, “Cloud and Tifa aren’t getting along very well.” ~Case of Tifa​

Barret is a member of the Seventh Heaven family:
“Barret turned round and shouted, “Do your best!” His voice was a little shaky. “Unite the family’s strength and keep at it!” ~Case of Tifa​
“Upon finding out that Edge was under attack during the midst of his travels, he rushed over towards the crisis faced by his family and companions.” ~10th Anniversary Ultimania​
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#9
Just going to briefly interrupt here.

Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith because even in death, Cloud "wavers" to Aerith. Common sense.

Why do you ignore the "wavers" quote?
Are you referring to what Kitase said about the design of the original game in the interview from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania? I'm confident I've seen most quotes related to Cloud's affections and that there isn't one saying "even in death, Cloud wavers to Aerith."

If you have seen such a comment, please cite it for posterity.

BlankBeat said:
Barret & Tifa are seen driving in a truck together without Cloud in DoC.
Cloud's there in the back of the truck, waiting to be deployed into the battle.

BlankBeat said:
Gaslighting.
I need to ask you to stop making accusations like this. One of the rules I am going to enforce in this sub-forum like an absolute tyrant is assuming good faith of other debate participants.

This is a hill I will die on. Do not break this rule over inconsequential nonsense.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
#10
Aerith is jealous that Tifa is alive and can be with Cloud in the physical world. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith because even in death, Cloud "wavers" to Aerith. Common sense.
No, Tifa is jealous of Aerith's having an easy bond with Cloud. Nothing more, nothing less. Tifa is not jealous of Aerith in death, she's got complicated feelings because Cloud's guilt over letting her die is destroying his life and thus she has complicated feelings for someone she genuinely loved herself.

Stop calling your assumptions common sense.

Why do you ignore the "wavers" quote?
Because Cloud "wavers" on Disc 1, on Disc 2 he and Tifa become aware that they have had feelings for each other for quite some time, and confirm them without words.

Never said it was.
You keep treating it like it is. ACC is about Cloud's guilt, not romance. It's about him finding peace and being able to resume a happy life free of guilt for the people that gave their lives that he might live.

Given that Cloud & Aerith are in an officially established love triangle, why would Terra be referring to Cloud's "platonic" love for her?
Because the entire party loves Aerith.

You are denying common sense again.
You keep saying this. It continues to mean nothing when you do stuff like ask where the wedding and the baby are.

Gaslighting.
You started out telling me my motivations for doing something, I told you were wrong, you said you didn't believe me, I said I didn't give a flying fuck what you believe because the truth is the truth. That is not gaslighting. If anything, trying to tell me my own fucking motivations is gaslighting but even then that is not an accurate use of that term.

Barret returns to living with Cloud & Tifa in DoC.

Tifa is still listed as a mere "childhood friend" in DoC.

Barret & Tifa are seen driving in a truck together without Cloud in DoC.

CxT share zero moments of romance in DoC (not even a brief moment of physical chemistry).

SE has purposely made CxT's relationship vague. Nothing has been shown definitively or conclusively.

Where is the wedding? Where is the baby? Where is a kiss?

Furthermore...

Tifa admits her & Cloud aren’t a “real” family:
“Tifa turns away, disappointed. “I guess that only works for real families.“ ~Case of Tifa​
Nojima speaks of a premise that things won’t go well between Cloud & Tifa:
“…there’s a premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without geostigma or Sephiroth, this might be the same.” ~Kazushige Nojima​

Marlene observes that Cloud & Tifa aren’t getting along well:
“…she told Barret in a sad voice, “Cloud and Tifa aren’t getting along very well.” ~Case of Tifa​

Barret is a member of the Seventh Heaven family:
“Barret turned round and shouted, “Do your best!” His voice was a little shaky. “Unite the family’s strength and keep at it!” ~Case of Tifa​
“Upon finding out that Edge was under attack during the midst of his travels, he rushed over towards the crisis faced by his family and companions.” ~10th Anniversary Ultimania​
Literally none of that changes that Cloud finds his happiness with Tifa and the Kids, that they formed a family together in Edge, that they have a future together, etc.

Oh, and as for where's the kid, his name is Denzel. He's their adopted kid. He sees them as his parents.

Please stop accusing me of arguing in bad faith, I am trying to meet you halfway but you are holding onto some serious beef from years back.
 

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#11
Are you referring to what Kitase said about the design of the original game in the interview from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania? I'm confident I've seen most quotes related to Cloud's affections and that there isn't one saying "even in death, Cloud wavers to Aerith."
SE has made a point of saying Cloud "wavers" between two heroines.

This continues in AC.

Cloud is at Seventh Heaven. Cloud is at Aerith's Church & grave. Cloud is clearly "wavering" between two heroines yet again.

Tifa is jealous of this continued "wavering" because of the established love triangle.

Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued feelings of love for Aerith. That is common sense.

Cloud's there in the back of the truck, waiting to be deployed into the battle.
But the point is that Tifa is sitting with Barret (ie: Tifa isn't sitting with Cloud). That is weird behavior for a supposedly "canon" couple.

It also further confirms that this is a family that includes Barret as well.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#12
This is already getting more heated than it needs to be. Both of you need to chill.

Also, I seriously don't want to see anything else dredged up from years past. The next time this happens, whoever does it is looking at a week-long ban from this sub-forum.

But the point is that Tifa is sitting with Barret (ie: Tifa isn't sitting with Cloud). That is weird behavior for a supposedly "canon" couple.
Weird behavior would be deciding battle strategy based on who's a couple. =P
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
#13
SE has made a point of saying Cloud "wavers" between two heroines.

This continues in AC.

Cloud is at Seventh Heaven. Cloud is at Aerith's Church & grave. Cloud is clearly "wavering" between two heroines yet again.

Tifa is jealous of this continued "wavering" because of the established love triangle.

Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued feelings of love for Aerith. That is common sense.
No, Cloud, by his own words, is looking for forgiveness. He is not wavering in ACC.

But the point is that Tifa is sitting with Barret (ie: Tifa isn't sitting with Cloud). That is weird behavior for a supposedly "canon" couple.

It also further confirms that this is a family that includes Barret as well.
Cloud is in the back of the selfsame truck ready to deploy on his tricked out motorcycle. Barret and Tifa are driving into the battlefield with Cloud. Romance is literally a non factor to the scenario here.
This is what I mean when I say you seem to view everything in the lens of romance.
 

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#14
No, Tifa is jealous of Aerith's having an easy bond with Cloud. Nothing more, nothing less. Tifa is not jealous of Aerith in death, she's got complicated feelings because Cloud's guilt over letting her die is destroying his life and thus she has complicated feelings for someone she genuinely loved herself.
Tifa is stated to be jealous of her "love rival."

Why is Aerith mentioned as Tifa's "love rival" if we are not to interpret Tifa's feelings as romantic jealousy?

Because Cloud "wavers" on Disc 1, on Disc 2 he and Tifa become aware that they have had feelings for each other for quite some time, and confirm them without words.
Cloud lives at Seventh Heaven.

Cloud lives in Aerith's Church.

Cloud visits Aerith's grave.

That is clear-cut "wavering" between the two heroines that are established in the love triangle. Which makes it obvious why Tifa is jealous. Common sense.

You keep treating it like it is. ACC is about Cloud's guilt, not romance. It's about him finding peace and being able to resume a happy life free of guilt for the people that gave their lives that he might live.
Terra in WoFF confirms it is love as well as guilt.

You are making it seem as though the two are mutually exclusive. They aren't. It can be both guilt *AND* love.

Because the entire party loves Aerith.
Who else in the party is in the love triangle?

You keep saying this. It continues to mean nothing when you do stuff like ask where the wedding and the baby are.
I just want one moment of clear-cut romance between CxT in the compilation.

If they are the "canon" couple, why haven't they been shown intimately?

Literally none of that changes that Cloud finds his happiness with Tifa and the Kids, that they formed a family together in Edge, that they have a future together, etc.
Tifa literally states it isn't a "real" family.

Barret returns to living with them and considers himself a member of the family Tifa says isn't real.

Oh, and as for where's the kid, his name is Denzel. He's their adopted kid. He sees them as his parents.
Cloud believes Aerith led Denzel to him.

No, Cloud, by his own words, is looking for forgiveness. He is not wavering in ACC.
Forgiveness because he let the woman he loved die.

Terra in WoFF confirms this.

Cloud is in the back of the selfsame truck ready to deploy on his tricked out motorcycle. Barret and Tifa are driving into the battlefield with Cloud. Romance is literally a non factor to the scenario here.
Still weird for SE to make the supposedly "canon" couple sit separately.

Regardless, this is further proof that Barret is very much a member of this family once he moves back.
 
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BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#15
And just to be clear...

Barret is not in the love triangle. But his presence proves the family is not a family born out of romance. It is the Seventh Heaven family. The OG family that has always included Barret.

Sure -- while Barret was gone it was Cloud & Tifa together as a family.

But both Nojima & Marlene say it didn't go well.

Tifa even says her and Cloud aren't a "real" family.

Then, Barret returns.

How Denzel personally views Cloud & Tifa doesn't prove anything other than the perspective of a young child who lived with Cloud & Tifa while Barret was gone.

Once Barret is back, it is back to the original Seventh Heaven family.

CxT have zero explicit moments of romance & Cloud believes Aerith brought him Denzel.

Cloud wants forgiveness because he let the woman he loved die (Terra in WoFF confirms this). Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued feelings of love for Aerith.

It isn't an either/or scenario.

Cloud has guilt & wants forgiveness because he let the woman he loved die. An obvious star-crossed romance that Tifa is still jealous of (common sense).

This is all very straightforward, IMO.

Until Tifa is listed as more than a "childhood friend," or a clear-cut romantic scene is shown between them, there is literally ZERO evidence that Cloti is canon.

Cloud and Tifa didn't work out. Nojima and Tifa herself confirmed this. Please re-read the quotes I listed above (because I get in trouble for posting quotes too much).
 

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
#17
But his presence proves the family is not a family born out of romance. It is the Seventh Heaven family. The OG family that has always included Barret.
That doesn't prove anything one way or the other. Sometimes couples live with other people.

but both Nojima & Marlene say it didn't go well.
Just because something didn't go well, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

CxT have zero explicit moments of romance
The Highwind is a pretty good example

Cloud wants forgiveness because he let the woman he loved die (Terra in WoFF confirms this). Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued feelings of love for Aerith
Can you show proof from the compilation, that backs up those claims? WOFF is not canon to it, no matter how many times you bring it up.

Until Tifa is listed as more than a "childhood friend," or a clear-cut romantic scene is shown between them, there is literally ZERO evidence that Cloti is canon.
Are people still saying they are currently together? I get the impression that people are saying that they were together, but not anymore.

Edit: after reading further, I see some people still think think they are together. Idk, after "case of Tifa" I thought they were done being in a relationship together.
 
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BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#18
Yes -- sometimes couples live with other people. I agree.

But the way it is being portrayed is as if Cloud and Tifa got married and began living together. The reality is much different with Barret's presence. The reality is much different than what is being suggested.

That is why I want an explicit example of romance between Cloud and Tifa.

The Highwind scene is inherently variable for a reason. It is weak evidence due to being inherently variable.

Besides, I'm asking for an example within the compilation post-AC. All I see is what Marlene and Nojima confirmed: Cloud & Tifa not working out.

Given the officially established love triangle, and Cloud's reaction to Aerith's death, it is common sense that he loved Aerith.

Cloud and Aerith are star-crossed lovers.

Disqualifying WoFF is only done so out of sheer desperation.

And let's not forget... SE is making Cloud's love for Aerith crystal clear in the Remake.

Cloud reacts to Aerith saying not to fall in love with her as if he has already fallen in love with her. Cloud states he wants his OWN SAY on the matter. How much clearer can you get?

Tifa is only ever referred to as a "childhood friend." She has never been upgraded to "girlfriend" or "wife."

And please don't come back with... "well, Aerith hasn't been upgraded, either!!"

The difference is that we aren't saying Cloud and Aerith are a couple. We are simply saying Cloud continues to love Aerith even in death.

So... if Cloud and Tifa are the "canon" couple... where is that stated in a profile description? Where is that in a scene of explicit romance?

The answer? NOWHERE.

You can personally view Cloud and Tifa as a couple (I guess). But it has NEVER been officially confirmed by SE.

On the contrary, SE confirmed Cloud's love for Aerith in WoFF, and the Remake is looking VERY promising.
 
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BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#19
PS:

Even if CxT confirmed feelings of a past crush, or during the inherently variable Highwind scene, Cloud *STILL* seeks Aerith and Marlene + Nojima say CxT didn't work out.

Tifa says her and Cloud aren't a "real" family.

So...???
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
#20
So couples go through rough patches. Cloud and Tifa went through one. That's part of the plot of AC/C. And then he goes back to where he belongs, with her, as they have worked through the rough patch and forged a deeper understanding with each other.

I'll get to responding to your flood of replies later (Also, please do not double and triple post, it is rude) but allow me to state as politely as I can that your logic simply does not follow on numerous occasions. You make huge jumps and leaps and assumptions, like the idea that Tifa being jealous of Aerith must mean Cloud absolutely loves Aerith over her, and moreover that this persists for years after she dies.

But even simpler any of that, you insist that Cloud seeks Aerith out of love, of longing. In clear contradiction of his own words on the subject, that what he seeks is forgiveness. You don't even listen to the man himself on the matter. That's one of many reasons why discussing this subject with you is so immensely infuriating.
 

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
#21
But the way it is being portrayed is as if Cloud and Tifa got married and began living together. The reality is much different with Barret's presence. The reality is much different than what is being portrayed
Being portrayed by who though?
Idk if they did get married, but they did live together.

That is why I want an explicit example of romance between Cloud and Tifa.
They obviously got together. It just didn't work out in the end. By Marlene saying it, is the evidence.

Given the officially established love triangle, and Cloud's reaction to Aerith's death, it is common sense that he loved Aerith.
I never said he didn't love Aerith. I've said that he loves both of them.

Disqualifying WoFF is only done so out of sheer desperation.
Lol nooo. Its because WOFF is not canon to the ff7 story. What is and always has been canon is Before Crisis, Crisis Core, FF7, Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus and On the way to a smile.

And let's not forget... SE is making Cloud's love for Aerith crystal clear in the Remake
Wrong sub-forum. But yes, they are making it crystal clear, like they are making it crystal clear of his love for Tifa. Just like they did in the OG.

Cloud reacts to Aerith saying not to fall in love with her as if he has already fallen in love with her. Cloud states he wants his OWN SAY on the matter. How much clearer can you get?
Again, wrong sub-forum.
But, him saying that doesn't mean he loves her. Maybe he just wants the choice to do it or not.

Tifa is only ever referred to as a "childhood friend." She has never been upgraded to "girlfriend" or "wife."

And please don't come back with... "well, Aerith hasn't been upgraded, either!!"
Well, I never saw Aerith labeled as a girlfriend or wife. She was only labeled as a girlfriend of Zack.

The difference is that we aren't saying Cloud and Aerith are a couple. We are simply saying Cloud continues to love Aerith even in death.
I said in my last post, but I don't view T&C as a couple. I stopped after OTWTAS.
And just because Cloud loves Aerith in death, doesn't mean he doesn't love Tifa anymore. I mean, they were in a relationship for a few years.

So... if Cloud and Tifa are the "canon" couple... where is that stated in a profile description? Where is that in a scene of explicit romance?
The HW scene is pretty explicit haha

You can personally view Cloud and Tifa as a couple (I guess). But it has NEVER been officially confirmed by SE
Insert Aerith's name instead of Tifa, and that statement still fits

On the contrary, SE confirmed Cloud's love for Aerith in WoFF,
Show me where SE has said that WOFF is canon to the FF7 story. Where do the events of that game fall on the timeline?

the Remake is looking VERY promising.
I agree! Its looking very promising, for Tifa and Aerith fans. Both sides will get the narrative they want out of the story:)
 

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
#22
PS:

Even if CxT confirmed feelings of a past crush, or during the inherently variable Highwind scene, Cloud *STILL* seeks Aerith and Marlene + Nojima say CxT didn't work out.

Tifa says her and Cloud aren't a "real" family.

So...???
Why do you keep saying the Highwind scene is inherently variable?
 

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#23
Ryu --

Forgiveness, guilt, and love are not mutually exclusive ideas. In-fact, they are tied together as one.

Cloud wants forgiveness & feels guilty due to letting the woman he loved die. Not only is this common sense, but Terra confirms it without any shadow of a doubt.

Why would Cloud want forgiveness & feel guilty if he didn't love Aerith? (And yes -- it is romantic love BECAUSE of the officially established love triangle).

Cloud goes back to where he belongs?

In a family Tifa said isn't "real"? With Barret living with them?

Where is the romance between CxT? The official description of Tifa as "girlfriend" or "wife"?

All I see is Tifa being described as a "childhood friend" in DoC and confirmation of what Nojima & Marlene said: Cloud & Tifa didn't work out.

In the credits of AC/C, Cloud rides his motorcycle through flower fields stated to represent Aerith. You can obviously deny the obvious symbolism, but anyone with a shred of common sense & honesty will see it as a metaphor for Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith even after AC/C concludes.

I don't have a problem with you viewing Cloud and Tifa as a couple on a personal level. The problem is with the declaration that Cloti is "canon."

Nowhere is Tifa listed as a "girlfriend" or "wife." Nowhere is Cloud and Tifa shown in explicit scenes of romance. In-fact, we see the EXACT POLAR OPPOSITE of romance (which you say is just a "rough patch").

Anyway -- my long distance boyfriend is staying with me for the next several days, and I have tons of online homework and actual work for my job to do this upcoming week (that's why I'm getting all of these thoughts out while I can).

Can't wait to read your response!! But I don't know when I'll get around to responding.

Cheers!!
 
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BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
#24
Warning: stop unnecessarily double posting
Well, I never saw Aerith labeled as a girlfriend or wife. She was only labeled as a girlfriend of Zack.
We aren't claiming Cloud and Aerith became a couple. We are claiming Cloud continues to love Aerith even after death.

Cloti's are claiming Cloud and Tifa became a couple and is canon.

Therefore, the burden of proof to provide a specific quote is on THEM.

The HW scene is pretty explicit haha
There are two versions of the Highwind scene.

Variable evidence is inherently weaker evidence.

Besides, I'm looking for proof post-AC/C.

In DoC, Tifa is still only referred to as a "childhood friend."

Cloud and Tifa share zero moments of romance post-AC/C.

Where's the proof?
 

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
#25
We aren't claiming Cloud and Aerith became a couple. We are claiming Cloud continues to love Aerith even after death.

Cloti's are claiming Cloud and Tifa became a couple and is canon.

Therefore, the burden of proof to provide a specific quote is on THEM.
Well, if people are claiming that Cloud doesn't love Aerith even in death, I guess that's on them. I think from what we've seen in the compilation, Cloud loved both of them all the way till DoC.

Cloud and Tifa did become a couple though. Marlene even said it. She just said it didn't work out in the end.

Variable evidence is inherently weaker evidence.
OK, I see what you're saying, thanks. So that would mean the dream sequence in the remake, is variable evidence. Thanks!

Besides, I'm looking for proof post-AC/C.

In DoC, Tifa is still only referred to as a "childhood friend."

Cloud and Tifa share zero moments of romance post-AC/C.

Where's the proof?
Well, I think they stopped being a couple after OTWTAS, so I'm not disagreeing with you there:)
 
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