The value of art, and how it relates to identity and mental health

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
This is a little all over the place, but it's where my mind took me today. I've written this from an artist's perspective. Creator would probably be a more apt word. We're all creators, but some choose to put a significant and deliberate effort in creating, and those are the people I would consider "artists." For those that have not seen, I do visual art, sing, and have begun to create educational videos on various topics of interest.

At one point does art/media become unhealthy? I think this question is composed of two questions. When does it become unhealthy for the artist; when does it become unhealthy for the viewer, and to what degree, if at all, is the artist responsible? I think the criteria would vary according to the particular individual, but when patterns emerge in populations I think it's worth discussing. Ultimately I think it's a question that we should all be asking ourselves, on a personal level.

When I think of potential artistic motivations, I think of three principle goals, each of which would have two polar manifestations.

| For fun || Procrastination |
| Education and influence || Manipulation |
| Catharsis and self expression || Approval-seeking |

Regarding: | Catharsis and self expression || Approval-seeking |
This is obviously highly pertinent in our current state of media. I think many of us have the desire to encapsulate our identities into a brand, as a way to escape the fear of being unintelligible. To advertise an ideal, consistent Self, to validate and quantify our identities. We fear the incoherent, undefined, and the unknown, especially as it pertains to our own lives and identities, but that is a fundamental aspect of our existence. It's the Yin factor that society has shunned for massive swaths of history, because it's scary. Within the last few months I have been forced to reconcile aspects of my personality that are diametrically opposed to the image I've both privately and publicly packaged myself in. I am still trying to figure out how to completely integrate myself, and to what degree I should express these qualities outwardly. In society we are all miniature celebrities in a sense. This is why actual celebrities; the way we treat them and why, reveals so much about a society. Most notably how people believe they want to see and express rawness, when they only want the illusion of it, a "measured" rawness. I think fundamentally this is fueled by loneliness. We wouldn't have the urge to seek or be raw if we had the actual rawness that can only be established through trust.

A discussion about the objectification of Self, especially as it pertains to artistry and social media, also necessitates a discussion about vanity. I’ve generally avoided falling into this one, but I still feel the pull a little. It’s one of the reasons I very stubbornly refuse to wear makeup beyond ocassional lipstick. Therein is the danger of the artist merging with the art. Perfecting oneself visually as one would do for a painting. Becoming acquainted with the surprisingly technical aspects of fashion and then becoming unable to be visually pleased with themselves, not to mention the risk of falling into hollow materialism and the environmental effects of buying anything not thrifted. Having an earnest desire to capture candidness and authenticity, and express oneself, through photography, but then becoming so lost in lighting and posing that one starts to merge the challenges of the medium with real life, becoming obsessed with the minor details of their appearance or the appearance of the objects around them in every day life. Or wanting to live and display as full and interesting of a life as humanly possible, inspired by FOMO. The ubiquity of this content seems to have had a negative effect on the population that views this content (almost everyone, to some degree). When a person is always posting pictures of themselves or their stuff, I can't say the word "confidence" comes to mind most of the time. It's probably best to think of how we look and present to others as little as possible, but appearance and presentation is also an art form and a real and tangible part of life. So where is the line drawn? This all also begs the question of how an artist can turn off the endless critique we are all privy to but still improve as an artist, and also the question if it's even worth it at all. Because the more media you are acquainted with, the more you notice imperfections. When an artist starts to become bogged down by this, they lose the forest in the trees. It's the artists' true kryptonite and irony.

The motivation of | Education and influence || Manipulation | also becomes vulnerable to this perfectionism. Not just in the visual sense but also in the ideological sense. You find yourself asking if the idea is worth expressing, if it provides a net good, or if it's just imposing yourself on the world. The anxiety of putting a bunch of work into something that is not influential enough, or influential in the wrong way, to warrant the work. And if intentions are "off," consciously or unconsciously, it can inspire a counterproductive or harmful reaction in the audience.

I would argue that the motivation for me that has been psychologically healthiest to me on an individual level has been: | For fun || Procrastination |. When my likeness, ideologies, nor identity is not involved in the art at all, when it is entirely immediate, minimally planned, and meditative. It is also probably the healthiest form of procrastination I've done. But I feel that this art has the least net positive effect on others.

Society would prefer I make this essay into a video, going through hours of filming and post, and ensuring that it is visually interesting by looking as interesting and well assembled as possible. But honestly I'd rather not. I like to write. I find it effective and I really hate doing post. And I don't care or want to care what my lighting looks like or if I'm close enough to the mic when I'm educating or pondering. But the written media is no longer effective. I want to be effective. Ultimately, my goal is to help, educate, and inspire people. A follow up question to that, is whatever message worth expressing, and is it conducive to the goal of being helpful to people? Further, if the answer is yes, how much exposure is enough? At what point should one stop quantifying influence based on the number of souls that are reached? Is it when we become spread too thin? And when does it start to effect one's mental well being? Because we can always be better. I think as we travel this vein of thought it's important to not forget the power of face to face interaction. Not just for the other person but for oneself. And to not have a goal to that interaction beyond connecting with that person and having a good time. I was not a fan of the strict social isolation that dragged on and on for months, and I knew from the beginning that I would not enjoy it. I think face to face interaction should supersede interaction by proxy, such as through media, but not replace it.
 
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Ghost X

Moderator
At what point does art/media become unhealthy? When does it become unhealthy for the artist; when does it become unhealthy for the viewer, and to what degree, if at all, is the artist responsible?

I think, as with anything else, it is when it interferes with your life (are you doing art or viewing art instead of eating, for example :P) that it becomes unhealthy. Environment impact also should be considered. How responsible is the artist? Well, that would depend. Will try to address more later.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Within a creative field, there always comes a time when a choice has to be made between working towards being the artist you strive to be, and being a well-adjusted human. Too many artists completely burn out due to captialism, as well as a lack of self-fulfillment in whatever environment they find themselves creating.
 
Ryvius, your post somehow reminded me of these words of Hokusai

“From the age of 6 I had a mania for drawing the shapes of things. When I was 50 I had published a universe of designs. But all I have done before the the age of 70 is not worth bothering with. At 75 I'll have learned something of the pattern of nature, of animals, of plants, of trees, birds, fish and insects. When I am 80 you will see real progress. At 90 I shall have cut my way deeply into the mystery of life itself. At 100, I shall be a marvelous artist. At 110, everything I create; a dot, a line, will jump to life as never before. To all of you who are going to live as long as I do, I promise to keep my word. I am writing this in my old age. I used to call myself Hokusai, but today I sign my self 'The Old Man Mad About Drawing.”
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I'm drunk again. But I think now it's like...we have the internet so it *should* be more of a level playing field.... but somehow it isn't. And you can clearly see trends emerging. It's all "content" and people get locked into creating the content that gets them the most likes/exposure. I feel like it's people with talent and instead of them creating for themselves they have to make stuff to cater to the whims of the fanbase.

I mean.... thinking about it I could probably make a good living drawing scooby doo inflation scat to order. But it turns out I still have integrity ? "come friendly bombs..."


I think my mind has wandered. But even if you're not catering to pervs you still see patterns emerging. I don't feel like I see much unique stuff anymore. I barely make anything these days and I don't think what I do manage make is particularly good or unique. Shits hard man. Possibly worse than the old days because you're painfully aware of everyone you're competing with.. and I hate saying that.

And identity. Ghhhhh. I mean I was told from an early age I was "good at art" and part of me wishes I hadn't been. I dunno has anyone done a study? Were the great artists discouraged as children? Did Hitler's mum tell him "Aldolf lad yer dead dead good at drawin yer nan will be made up with day pictcher yer did"

Don't worry I'm not gonna invade Poland. I can't even get my shit together to go the shops /thread derailment
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
I surprised my mom by bringing my camera over last weekend and taking an impromptu photoshoot of her. When I showed her the pics, she liked them, but she said “I look so wrinkly!” That was the exact opposite reaction I was going for. I want to depict authenticity in an appealing way, to help people feel confident and connected to themselves. As an artist in a ridiculously vain society, it’s definitely easy to lose the human being in the aesthetics, and I like to remind myself that the human factor is the important part. I like to take pictures of flowers that are imperfect or have a couple dead ones mixed in. But modern art tends to be, ironically, diametrically opposed to the human experience.

There is this gal that was like the only young woman I knew other than me that never or rarely wore makeup. A few months ago she dropped the bare face completely and I felt disappointed. I know it’s because she doesn’t feel pretty enough because she said as much. On the other hand there is someone else I know that essentially does face painting with her makeup, and another person who enjoys it but doesn‘t wear it most of the time. But I think the majority of the time people feel that their natural face is the deficient version of their face and I could not disagree with that more. We lose the uniqueness of our features. I think where it crosses over from healthy experimentation into vanity is blurry and specific to the individual. But generally I think makeup culture is psychologically toxic, restrictive, consumerist, and damaging to the skin.

@Octo I know you‘re boozed but you do have good points here. A strategy I’ve seen with content creators to get views while avoiding selling out is to use clickbait strategy but then have the actual content be authentic. I would honestly prefer social media to be gone and for art to be shared more locally. The quantity of content is so overwhelming that art almost feels meaningless. Sounds like exactly what Andy Warhol wanted. Fucking hate that guy. But a part of me really does wonder if most art, especially static visual art, really isn’t worth the effort and that perhaps it should just be for fun. For me the art that has had the biggest actually meaningful impact on me has been anime, though for most I suspect it’s music.

I think, as with anything else, it is when it interferes with your life (are you doing art or viewing art instead of eating, for example :P) that it becomes unhealthy. Environment impact also should be considered. How responsible is the artist? Well, that would depend. Will try to address more later.

That‘s the simple answer, but sometimes it can be difficult to determine where that point is, especially since everything in life that you are serious about creates discomfort at certain points. And the deeper question would be how to make it as positive of an experience as possible. Regarding the environmental thing I personally use mostly recycled materials, just like how most of my possessions are second hand. Which does make me wonder, though: if we didn’t have such rampant consumerism, then there wouldn’t be such great second hand things out there, so in a way people like me are still reliant on consumerism.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
An aside but the fucking filters on Instagram/Snapchat or even inbuilt into the fucking phone...I mean I'm.certain I have BDD and they really don't help

Like from an early age I've disliked how I looked, but now I have access to a filter that clears my skin... and then when I see myself without a filter....it's month ruining.

And even my shitty landscape pics get enhanced with a filter.

I mean guys were in the Matrix but it's self made and even more shitty and derivative ????
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
@Octo That’s exactly what I’m talking about. The fact that people (namely women) wear so much makeup and use so many filters that their face literally begins to not look like them anymore. I will begrudgingly accept my annoying pimples and the marks they cause for this reason. I don’t shave my legs either, and I’m considering no longer shaving under my arms because why is natural hair unacceptable? At the same time I feel like a bit of a hypocrite though, because I run through my hair with a heated brush every morning - I do this because my natural curly hair is messy (socially unacceptable) and high maintenance and it is quicker to straighten it than to deal with it. So as a result my natural hair doesn’t feel like my own.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I shaved my legs for the first time in 500 years the other day but in the end it was too cold and I ended up wearing leggings anyway. But like...I get it. I know everyone says "I wear makeup for myself" but I just think really? Would you give a.shit if you were alone on a desert island?
 

Prism

Pro Adventurer
AKA
pikpixelart
People worry too much about what’s natural versus unnatural - it’s a distinction that’s largely arbitrary. Anything anyone uses to style themselves is adding something “unnatural” to their appearance, whether it’s clothes, products, et cetera. It’s something that the default natural condition doesn’t have, so it’s only human nature to dress oneself up - people have been shaving and applying cosmetics since antiquity. Still, it can be a huge relief to realize you don’t have to do things like shaving if you don’t want to. Modern society needs to give people freedom to do (or not do) whatever they want. People should make an effort to go against society’s expectations and pressures. I don’t think it’s a coincidence a lot of women eased up during the pandemic for this reason.

I can only approach this from a man’s perspective, so it will be biased inherently. During lockdown, if I went too long without maintaining a proper appearance, it would start to affect my self esteem. Conditioning my hair, shaving my arms, chest and stomach (not that I have an immense amount of hair anyway, but it’s still something I try to clean up) all helped me keep peace of mind. So…at least for me, these rituals still have some value even just for one’s self.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
It's the same rule of thumb as gambling, if you can't afford to lose, maybe it's better not to play. Everyone has got to get through the 'my work is shit' threshold, whether or not that's true, it's also the path to improvement. Whether the critic is making genuine points or being an abusive dick for clicks is also relevant, and distinguishing the two is important.

I've been posting stuff online for going on fifteen years now. Have I made money? No. Have I got traction? No? Have I... made some friends? Yes. So, was that a good use of time?

From a viewer perspective, I think if you can feel betrayed by a work of fiction or it's creator, then you're too invested. If you're throwing personal abuse at someone for making something you dislike, you're too invested. If you're drawing conclusions about the personal life of an artist from their work, then you're... not engaging properly.

One thing social media has done is that there's now a bigger audience for weaponised hatred of media, and this has done a great deal of harm to creatives, creativity, and diversity (of thought, the representative kind). I have a whole rant on tap about this, but it does mention star wars a lot, which may drag us off topic.
 

Emmela

Lv. 1 Adventurer
AKA
Amy
Art is something extremly beautiful but sometimes might be transformed into something toxic and harmful for yourself. The same is with media, especially social media, my friend is suffering of BPD and this was mostly caused by social media and its influence on teenagers or insecure people. She didn't want to admit but after I found this article https://fherehab.com/pd/signs-of-bpd/ I convinced her to get some help. We tend to be perfect while the perfection doesn't exist. We do a lot of think just to touch even a small point of perfection but this is the most toxic thing.
 
It's so wierd to me that human beings aspire to be perfect*. Perfection is quite obviously an unattainable state, so why waste one's time and energy trying to be something you can never be? When you could be going out having fun and seeing the world instead?

And you know what else is wierd? We don't love and value other human beings on the basis of how perfect they are; some of the most flawed people are the most loved and the most lovable; and yet too many of us seem to buy into this idea that if only we were perfect, we'd be loved and valued.

(*whatever 'perfect' means)
 

Mobius Stripper

perfectly normal human worm baby
AKA
PunkassDiogenes
I have been thinking some lately about what my goals are as an artist. Making art is one of the only things in life that I really enjoy. For writing in particular (I do visual art, too, but I feel like I am more naturally disposed toward writing), there is a sense that I am striving to get something onto the page in such a way that what I am thinking/feeling is being conveyed as accurately as possible into another person's mind. I've always liked the idea of language as a form of telepathy, and the more precise and artful we are with our language, the more able we are to experience one another's thoughts and feelings and form powerful connections.

So, while some artists genuinely do what they do for themselves and themselves alone, that is generally not true for me, and I don't think it's true for most artists, even if validation and adoration isn't their foremost goal. Yes, I see art fundamentally as self-expression, but I also see the purpose of self-expression as deep connection with other minds. Getting other people to understand what is going on in your head, maybe finding others on the same wavelength. And while I naturally enjoy ego-boosting approval, like people going "Wow this sounds/looks really pretty," it's definitely not enough for me by itself. Of course it is satisfying to know that I've succeeded on an aesthetic level. It tells me that the work I've done on honing my technical skills is paying off. But if other people don't seem to be getting what I've set out to do with a piece, it means my reason for doing all that technical work has not succeeded. There have been times when I've gotten positive feedback from somebody who has completely missed the point, and it feels pretty hollow. I have to take a step back and ask if it is just a matter of this person not being my target audience, or if I have epically failed at communicating, or maybe both. Either way, it's kind of a bummer.

I think there is something uniquely alienating to an artist about being appreciated on a purely aesthetic level while the message they are trying to communicate with their art goes largely unrecognized. This was a big source of angst to Kurt Cobain, for example, and it is a danger that comes with achieving fame as an artist. The price of being recognized is being misunderstood.
 
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