Theory Videos and other interesting shit

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
I don't know if there is already a thread for discussing theory videos if not lets use this one. If anyone finds a interesting video/articles or whatever lets discuss it in here.

So did anyone see this one:

It's from the guy who brought up the connection of the colors yellow and purple in the remake some time ago, his videos have a pretty good reputation in the theory community.
I also normally enjoy them too since he does some good research, but this time I can't really follow his thought process. Is he saying that Future!Sephiroth is controlled by Jenova since the og so this time he tries to break free of her influence which is what leads tp the events that unfold in the remake? But wasn't it always stated that it's Sephiroth's will that is controlling Jenovas action? I think I'm too small brain to get it, so if you watched it what did you think of it?
 
Last edited:

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Most of these type of vids I just can't take seriously. They go way too far in the weeds to establish "content" and construct a convoluted theory for a concept that really isn't this opaque. Like, if your theory takes nearly 3 hours to outline and explain, there's a problem. :monster:
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
Most of these type of vids I just can't take seriously. They go way too far in the weeds to establish "content" and construct a convoluted theory for a concept that really isn't this opaque. Like, if your theory takes nearly 3 hours to outline and explain, there's a problem. :monster:
Yeah I agree, I think that would be one of my main criticism, the video is way over bloated, that entire thing could have been cut down to 20 minutes. Which is a shame since I think the guy presents some good ideas in it but they get drowned by a tsunami of half baked theories and rambling.
 
Last edited:

Torrie

astray ay-ay-ay
I tend to ignore 7R theory videos, because 1. I'm a little bit oversaturated with info at the moment; 2. these theories are getting more and more far-fetched and convoluted and hard to follow; 3. as I understand, this bunch of youtube guys that produce theories on a regular basis must have found their passion in theory crafting, and 7R just happened to be their primary interest, and I envy how much free time they have.

But I'm currently watching this one posted above because of the positive feedback it's received lately. I'm only one third into the video, so I don't quite get the whole theoretical aspect of it, but he did a fantastic job tying some thematic and design elements together, such as this tesselation pattern throughout the compilation or explaining the fact that limit breaks are powered by memories not only in CC but in the other entries too, even if was done rather subtly.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Quit while you're ahead or you'll end up mako poisoned at this rate.

3 hours of overbloated random information and knowledge shoved into your brain with no real rhyme or reason will land you in a wheelchair right next to Cloud. Better be careful. :monster:
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
I tend to ignore 7R theory videos, because 1. I'm a little bit oversaturated with info at the moment; 2. these theories are getting more and more far-fetched and convoluted and hard to follow; 3. as I understand, this bunch of youtube guys that produce theories on a regular basis must have found their passion in theory crafting, and 7R just happened to be their primary interest, and I envy how much free time they have.

But I'm currently watching this one posted above because of the positive feedback it's received lately. I'm only one third into the video, so I don't quite get the whole theoretical aspect of it, but he did a fantastic job tying some thematic and design elements together, such as this tesselation pattern throughout the compilation or explaining the fact that limit breaks are powered by memories not only in CC but in the other entries too, even if was done rather subtly.
Since you're watching it did you get what his main theory was? Is he actually saying that Sephiroth is controlled by Jenova?
 

Torrie

astray ay-ay-ay
3 hours of overbloated random information and knowledge shoved into your brain with no real rhyme or reason
I forgot to add that I've been watching it bit by bit for a few days :wacky: If I did it in one go, it would indeed turn me into a Jenova clone hahaha

Since you're watching it did you get what his main theory was?
Not yet. But I was thinking of going back and relistening to the main theory section anyway.
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
I wish they'd just express their theories as AU fanfiction.
tbh I don't mind theory videos, it's a nice way to fill my need for ff7r part two news till we get some real infos. It's just that this video was so hyped but when I finally came around and watched it, it made no sense to me so I thought maybe I have brain damage or something :mon:
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Ah, this is a video I wanted to talk about!

It's... ungodly long (and Sleepezi does make it difficult to follow with his monotone voice), so I'm going to make some bullets points. Some stuff was really interesting, other was completely wrong, some garnered a "eh". My biggest gripe with him is that he completely dismisses Tifa as a heroine, her role in Cloud's life, and that makes him misinterpret or forget some things. Seriously. It's just weird when the rest is so well-thought, that he has this giant hole in his theory.

So my biggest gripe about this video, it's that instead of having Cloud, Tifa and Aerith as the three main heros, it sidelines Tifa entirely and replaces her with Zack. And... for a theory based on *memories*, yeah... no. He literally skipped the very obvious fact that while Aerith is in charge of the external conflict, it's Tifa who is in charge of the internal conflict. There are moments of sheer brillance though, and things I also came to think before that.

On the wrong things, Geostigma does not transmit to those who have lost the will to live, what the hell. Cloud is a (lol) living proof of this since he was searching for a cure for Denzel when he contracted it, in no way did he want to die. Also he makes it sound like Cloud was settling for Tifa, which rubbed me the wrong way - he tried to move on with his life, with home bumps along the way in CoT, yes, but the thing is that he was happy. Tifa was not a second choice he settled for. She's always been his primary choice. He had a huge survivor guilt though, just like everyone in the party, even more so because he considers it as his personal fault that Aerith died. So he fears losing that happiness, and the happier he becomes, the more anxious he becomes about it, because he feels like a failure. So the whole part about this is iffy at best.

His going on about memories and how Aerith follows Sephiroth suit to "attach herself" to Cloud also feels like he's looked too deep at the quote that Cloud has her engraved in his heart and that he can see Aerith and Zack because they live inside of him. I don't think it's *that deep*, especially because it's probably a very Japanese way to think that people still live inside of you as long as you remember them (small ToTP spoiler: Jessie implies the same thing to Tifa about her father and Nibelheim).

I am not sure what he has read about ToTP, because he claims he used it for his theorycrafting, but I didn't see any trace (lol) of it in his video. Otherwise, Tifa would have a more prominent role. He's also using a CC Ulti quote about the Nibelheim incident saying that it changed completely the lives of those two boys and that girl (or something alike) and linked it to Zack, Cloud and Aerith while I think the girl is definitely Tifa - she's the one who has her life in shambles because of that event.

One of the most interesting theories is that Jenova has completely distorted the Planet's will by invading and corrupting the Lifestream. It would be especially visible in the Harbinger fight, where the huge Harbinger seems to have some graphic similarities with Jenova herself. While he may have a point with the Harbinger itself... I don't think Jenova has completely taken off the Lifestream as he said. It's definitely a possibility that what we're fighting off is linked to Jenova - it made me rethink about that part where Tifa gets attacked... it then would be understandable why *she* is the one who gets attacked, and not Aerith there - but CoLW versus CoLB and every material we've had up until now, Remake included, does not seem to agree with his theory (that would involve the OG story to be Jenova's will and thus be a wrong outcome).

Another interesting theory would be that Sephiroth is a prisoner of Jenova. In the OG, when Sephiroth lost his sanity, he had similar white flashes as we see otherwise when Jenova controls Cloud's mind. This would indicate that just like the others copies and Cloud, he too is called by the Reunion - which is showed in Remake as well - and he too is being controlled. Honestly... this feel like a touché for me. Then in Remake, Sephiroth's goal is to free himself from Jenova, which the party helps while fighting the Harbinger. It would also explains this ore/watashi use switch. To me, this is the most brilliant point of the whole video.

Now, I do agree that one of the major themes of Remake is "Memories" (well duh it was also a theme in the OG I guess with Cloud needing a specific memory to prove who he was), but I am not sure I agree about everything that's in there. Also to note, I have taken so long to watch this video that I might not remember everything. But forgetting the most important character (to Cloud) when it comes to "memories" will always leave me doubtful.
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
Another interesting theory would be that Sephiroth is a prisoner of Jenova. In the OG, when Sephiroth lost his sanity, he had similar white flashes as we see otherwise when Jenova controls Cloud's mind. This would indicate that just like the others copies and Cloud, he too is called by the Reunion - which is showed in Remake as well - and he too is being controlled. Honestly... this feel like a touché for me. Then in Remake, Sephiroth's goal is to free himself from Jenova, which the party helps while fighting the Harbinger. It would also explains this ore/watashi use switch. To me, this is the most brilliant point of the whole video.
But it's Cloud who tells the team what happened in the Nibelheim reactor with Sephiroth so wouldn't it be actually him who gets those white flashes since we seeing things through his eyes and not Sephiroth? Also wasn't it long confirmed that it's Sephiroth who is controlling Jenova and not the other way around, so where is this idea coming from? I mean it's sounds really nice that Sephiroth is on a mission to free himself from Jenovas influence but wasn't that always the case anyway?:monster:

Edit:
About the Tifa thing, Sleepezi is basically a huge Aerith fanboy so my guess is that's why he isn't that interested in talking about Tifa and kinda overlooks her :mon:
 
Last edited:

Torrie

astray ay-ay-ay
On the wrong things, Geostigma does not transmit to those who have lost the will to live, what the hell. Cloud is a (lol) living proof of this since he was searching for a cure for Denzel when he contracted it, in no way did he want to die.
Erm, but this is exactly what On The Way To A Smile tells us :mon:
Sourse: thelifestream.net
Episode Shinra said:
Kilmister began by telling Rufus how the very first patient had directly been washed over by the Lifestream. He knew this the moment he examined the first patient infected and seemed to be pleased he did.

“There is another common symptom I found in the patients. Whenever the disease’s symptoms grew worse, I found they were all troubled and were ready to accept their deaths – You know that yourself don’t you, Mr. President?”

Indeed, thought Rufus.

“After that day I’m sure many have thought to themselves there is no future for them and that death was near. It was then that there was a sudden increase in the number of infected people. Also…”

Kilmister began talking about the black water.
It's not like Cloud and others wanted to die, it's more like they succumbed to depression and felt as if they might die anytime soon.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Erm, but this is exactly what On The Way To A Smile tells us :mon:
Sourse: thelifestream.net

It's not like Cloud and others wanted to die, it's more like they succumbed to depression and felt as if they might die anytime soon.

That's not how I interpret it:

“There is another common symptom I found in the patients. Whenever the disease’s symptoms grew worse, I found they were all troubled and were ready to accept their deaths – You know that yourself don’t you, Mr. President?”

When you get Geostigma, you can lose the will to live if the symptoms worsen. That's not "it spreads to people who lose the will to live" at all. You don't catch it if you have depression, you get depressed from it, basically. I doubt that Rufus was suicidal before he caught it. Cloud certainly wasn't, he was indeed ready to fight for Denzel in CoT.

@a_apple 2.0 oh, colour me surprised, I hadn't noticed that at all :quote: that answers my suspicions.

But it's Cloud who tells the team what happened in the Nibelheim reactor with Sephiroth so wouldn't it be actually him who gets those white flashes since we seeing things through his eyes and not Sephiroth? Also wasn't it long confirmed that it's Sephiroth who is controlling Jenova and not the other way around, so where is this idea coming from?

For your first question, TBH, the OG was so limited that it could be either. For the second question, I don't remember, so if anyone can confirm, please be my guest!
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
You catch Geostigma being exposed to the "black water" (which is in essence Jenova cells within stagnant Lifestream), being exposed to Lifestream during Meteorfall, being a SOLDIER or just somehow getting Jenova cells infused into your body.

The spread and progression of the disease accelerates the more you despair and get depressed. But even then, if you have it, you will ultimately die from it one way or another.

So yeah, Geostigma worsens with depression and despair. But you gotta actually catch Jenova cells to get it.

For your first question, TBH, the OG was so limited that it could be either. For the second question, I don't remember, so if anyone can confirm, please be my guest!

It is 100% confirmed Sephiroth controls Jenova. It's stated in disc 2 in the Northern Crater and every Ultimania on the subject lists Sephiroth's will as being the one controlling Jenova.
 
Last edited:

jeangl123

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jean
But it's Cloud who tells the team what happened in the Nibelheim reactor with Sephiroth so wouldn't it be actually him who gets those white flashes since we seeing things through his eyes and not Sephiroth? Also wasn't it long confirmed that it's Sephiroth who is controlling Jenova and not the other way around, so where is this idea coming from? I mean it's sounds really nice that Sephiroth is on a mission to free himself from Jenovas influence but wasn't that always the case anyway?:monster:

Edit:
About the Tifa thing, Sleepezi is basically a huge Aerith fanboy so my guess is that's why he isn't that interested in talking about Tifa and kinda overlooks her :mon:
The flashes he used as an example were from the Crisis Core version so it wasn't Cloud. Also, where are you getting that last part from? He literally made a video called "Aerith Dies."
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
The flashes he used as an example were from the Crisis Core version so it wasn't Cloud. Also, where are you getting that last part from? He literally made a video called "Aerith Dies."
Damn I don't even remember that there were flashes in the CC version of the Nibelheim flashback, BUT even if that's the case couldn't this be easily a sign of his Jenova cells awaking which maybe is the moment that allows him to hear Jenova in the first place or something like that? Like how do you go from white flashes to "actually Jenova was controlling Sephiroth all along" even though one of the most established facts about Sephiroth's character is that it's him who is in control.
Do you mean with "last part" what I said about Sleepezi being a Aerith fanboy? I don't think that's a secrete :mon: I'm actually pretty sure he said that himself in one of his streams but I also don't think that's a big deal or anything lol
 
Last edited:

Schrodingersbabyseal

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
BBseal
The format may not be for everyone... but I love long form content like this. I like to consume it on long hikes or during exercise... it's much more engrossing than music for that kind of activity, to me. I have some bias, since I worked heavily with him on this video, you'll see my name in the credits.

I also recognize that it took Sleepezi tremendous amounts of work to put together. I realize I have some bias, since I worked heavily with him on this video, you'll see my name in the credits. I'll let him address the primary points made so far in this thread (I know he is planning on doing so here). But if you check the comments section of the video, he does address many of these concerns. He also responds briefly to some of the stranger complaints regarding Tifa's lack of presence in this particular video on last night's episode of Seal Team 7.

Regarding the "concrete" answer to the answer to the seemingly tired "who is in control" question regarding Sephiroth and Jenova. As clear as the OG was and subsequent Ultimania(s) were on this particular topic... more recent information has shed some doubt on whether or not this is the narrative they intend on maintaining with Remake. Sleepezi does cite some of this in his video, but ultimately had to cut much of it because the video was already hitting the 3-hour mark. The amount of information we processed to even consider an alternative to the "agency" debate regarding Sephiroth/Jenova was very high. We dusted off old interviews... revisited previously "translated" materials and had them re-translated... and even translated seemingly "untranslated" materials... often with the help of members of this community. Honestly, an entire video could have been made exploring this particular topic (I may make one using what we found, and some of my own musings)... but it wasn't one of the core thesis statements that this video set out to prove.

So I implore you to at least consider digesting the video in its entirety before you dismiss it outright. If you don't have desire to, or the time, that's fine, but the idea that it's "overbloated" or "could have been told in 20 minutes" is a disservice to it and the hard work put into in my opinion.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Wait, what information was recently revealed that questions whether Sephiroth is in control of Jenova now?
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Dude, I've watched it entirely, but I've forgotten most of it. That's how it is on slow videos like this, especially with a monocorde tone - not to mention it feels like we run around in circle sometimes because he keeps repeating stuff we've already heard and that's not so interesting, which makes the interest drop (hence why I had to take many days to watch it after work, my husband even complained lol). And then the interest points are the ones he never repeats or truly expands on, which is grating :wacky: which is why I've forgotten most of the video.

I'm also not watching yet another stream to understand why he's absolutely pushing Tifa on the side when her freaking role with Cloud is to help his INNER PROBLEM. Nope. You chose it, it doesn't matter to me. On a video about MEMORIES, you should have at least one part on her role because she is the one who pushes Cloud to better himself, always. Three hours is a freaking long video, if he was unable to cover this in this huge theory, maybe there was something wrong in how he told it.
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
The format may not be for everyone... but I love long form content like this. I like to consume it on long hikes or during exercise... it's much more engrossing than music for that kind of activity, to me. I have some bias, since I worked heavily with him on this video, you'll see my name in the credits.

I also recognize that it took Sleepezi tremendous amounts of work to put together. I realize I have some bias, since I worked heavily with him on this video, you'll see my name in the credits. I'll let him address the primary points made so far in this thread (I know he is planning on doing so here). But if you check the comments section of the video, he does address many of these concerns. He also responds briefly to some of the stranger complaints regarding Tifa's lack of presence in this particular video on last night's episode of Seal Team 7.

Regarding the "concrete" answer to the answer to the seemingly tired "who is in control" question regarding Sephiroth and Jenova. As clear as the OG was and subsequent Ultimania(s) were on this particular topic... more recent information has shed some doubt on whether or not this is the narrative they intend on maintaining with Remake. Sleepezi does cite some of this in his video, but ultimately had to cut much of it because the video was already hitting the 3-hour mark. The amount of information we processed to even consider an alternative to the "agency" debate regarding Sephiroth/Jenova was very high. We dusted off old interviews... revisited previously "translated" materials and had them re-translated... and even translated seemingly "untranslated" materials... often with the help of members of this community. Honestly, an entire video could have been made exploring this particular topic (I may make one using what we found, and some of my own musings)... but it wasn't one of the core thesis statements that this video set out to prove.

So I implore you to at least consider digesting the video in its entirety before you dismiss it outright. If you don't have desire to, or the time, that's fine, but the idea that it's "overbloated" or "could have been told in 20 minutes" is a disservice to it and the hard work put into in my opinion.
Wait. What knew info was released that show us that it never was Sephiroth who was in control but Jenova. THAT would be a huge deal in the fandom if that was true. Why wouldn't he include this in his video?
 

Schrodingersbabyseal

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
BBseal
Wait, what information was recently revealed that questions whether Sephiroth is in control of Jenova now?

I'll let Sleepezi reply at length on it first. I'll clarify that not all of the information is new, seeds were planted in supporting information for the compilation, some of which has gone untranslated or mistranslated until recently (even by this community). But a good chunk of the idea hinges on revised terminology introduced in the Remake Ultimanias (Materials Plus mostly...) .
 

Schrodingersbabyseal

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
BBseal
Wait. What knew info was released that show us that it never was Sephiroth who was in control but Jenova. THAT would be a huge deal in the fandom if that was true. Why wouldn't he include this in his video?
He did include the most important bits imo. But again, I don't want to speak for him, and know he is working on a reply here.
 
Top Bottom