Tiny Bronco Theft in Remake??

#1
This is a bit of a 'small' question, and perhaps I should've just made it a post in one of the broader "Remake" threads, but eh...well, anyway, here goes:

So there's been a fair amount of discussion about 'immersion-breaking'/whimsical/overly fantastical (etc) elements of the original FFVII that might clash with the graphically updated and more thematically straight-faced Remake, not to mention the apparent difference in playstyles effecting certain events. One thing that recently sprang to mind as an element that was difficult to justify even in the OG, let alone in a modern game, was Rufus and co's trip to Rocket Town to demand Cid turn over the Tiny Bronco. A massive, world-dominating corporation with an entire military at its disposal seemingly in desperate need of a rickety, Cessna-style passenger plane (or "Doctor Killer", as they are nicknamed in the US) stands out as humorously inexplicable even among the periodically whimsical happenings of VII '97. Yet, this event is a fairly important part of the narrative, serving to introduce Cid, set up the next phase of the main plot, and grant the party the traditional 'middle' vehicle (unlocks new parts of the map without granting the whole kit and kaboodle that will come later). How do you guys think they will deal with this sequence in the Remake? Will they create some sort of expansive explanation for why Shinra is in such dire straits, rewrite the event entirely, or what?
 
#2
I guess they could have Rufus' airship gently crash near Rocket Town due to it not being airworthy and him insisting it take off anyway, and then they would have to grab the nearest thing, Cid's Tiny Bronco.
 

Tennyo

Paladin of Voltron
#3
Do we even need Rufus there? Maybe he just passed a law banning anyone from flying and troops from Shinra come to confiscate the plane?
 

Kain424

Pro Adventurer
#5
Honestly, I never really understood this scene. I thought it was possible they didn't quite have any airworthy planes until they go ahead and introduce the Gelnika later and have the airship show up.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
#7
I also imagine the Tiny Bronco will likely be suped-up to be like a small passenger plane size (so the entire party can fit in it). I also don’t see Cloud and Cid hanging on to wings being kept, so they’ll probably change it to them somehow getting inside the plane during the take off.
 

Mr. Ite

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Mr. Ite
#10
As far as the OG writes it, Rufus and Heidegger address this directly in Junon:

Heidegger
The long range airship is still being prepared.
It should be ready in about three more days. Gya haa haa!

Rufus
Even the Air Force's Gelnika?

Heidegger
......Gya haa haa!
This is why they have to take the cargo ship. It appears the Gelnika(s) are under repair as well as the Highwind. Rufus taking the cargo ship and the Tiny Bronco are due to his impatience.

What I want to know is... everything between the Rufus Parade and the Temple of the Ancients happened in 3 days??? I used about 50 tents in that time.
 

Minato

Gentleman Adventurer
AKA
Roger
#11
As far as the OG writes it, Rufus and Heidegger address this directly in Junon:

Heidegger
The long range airship is still being prepared.
It should be ready in about three more days. Gya haa haa!

Rufus
Even the Air Force's Gelnika?

Heidegger
......Gya haa haa!
This is why they have to take the cargo ship. It appears the Gelnika(s) are under repair as well as the Highwind. Rufus taking the cargo ship and the Tiny Bronco are due to his impatience.

What I want to know is... everything between the Rufus Parade and the Temple of the Ancients happened in 3 days??? I used about 50 tents in that time.
The Turks' operation with Reeve and Cait Sith is disconnected enough that Rufus and Heidegger don't know that Cait Sith still being with AVALANCHE means Reeve betrayed them. So really it only means that Junon Parade till Rocket City must have taken less then three days. Still moronic tho.
 

Addy Carver

Puppies and kittens
AKA
Mage
#12
Jesus fuck I need to play this godsdamned game again. I forgot a lot of the subtle details.

Anyway, I loved the scene where they try to make a break for it in the Tiny Bronco and get shot down, I don't care how ludicrous it seems to the rest of the game (I mean Cid has an actual rocket in his back yard, there's no safety clearance or anything), I'm looking forward to a high-res version of it.
 
#13
I certainly hope that the remake will either rewrite the Tiny Bronco scenario or write convincing reasons that Shinra bothers to travel to Rocket Town to retrieve the vehicle.

I can easily see Rufus, in his more efficiency-centric economic plans, ordering that any left-behind resources be retrieved for the industry. The Tiny Bronco might be a laughable vehicle but its parts could probably be re-used, whether it be for building new vehicles or weapons.

The main issue with this rewrite is that it wouldn't explain why Cid overhears about Shinra's search for the Temple of the Ancients. In the original script the Tiny Bronco is clearly meant to help Rufus in his hunt for Sephiroth.
Rufus
“I want to borrow
the Tiny Bronco.”

...

Rufus
“We're going after Sephiroth.
But seems like we've been going
in the wrong direction.”
“But now,
we think we know where he's headed.
But, we have to cross the ocean.
That's why we want your plane…”
{CID}
“So, where we headed?”
“Rufus was goin' after Sephiroth to
the Temple of the Ancients.”

{CLOUD}
“Really!?…Where is it?
That Temple of the Ancients?”

{CID}
“Dunno. That numbskull kid was tellin' me
he was headin 'The wrong direction'…
so maybe it's off this way?”
Then again with how secretive Shinra is supposed to be it seems odd even in the original script that Cid would learn about their search for the Temple of the Ancients. Perhaps additional rewrites are in order, one that explains better how Cid got this information. I can easily see Palmer clumsingly spilling the beans, although that would repeat Elena's clumsiness from the Mythril Mines event.
 
#15
The Gelnika probably needs a runway or airstrip to land, which you're not going to find anywhere near the temple.

The Tiny Bronco is a lot more nimble, it can take off vertically, and might even be able to land on water. It makes a very good scout plane, doesn't mean Rufus was planning to fly it himself.

Maybe something went wrong preparing the Highwind, or they needed a scout plane to fly ahead of it?
 
#16
Yeah, I think that's probably the best 'middle ground' solution -- Shinra still having alternative aircraft (so they don't end up seeming like the massive force with a whopping total of 3 planes), but none that are small and scrappy enough to land directly next to the Temple (I'm thinking of those planes that did the drug-running in places like Colombia, and the tiny dirt road 'airstrips' they had to attempt to land on). Especially if they re-designed the island that hosts the Temple into a more inhospitable jungle-type region where only a lil' guy like the Bronco could land, that seems like it'd work not too shabby.
 
#18
...Actually yeah, you're right, and the helicopters are there from more or less the start. Rufus rides the cargo ship over to Costa Del Sol, only to...get on a helicopter? It does make for a badass exit, though. Maybe he just likes elongated travel.
 
#19
I always figured it was because it had the range of an airplane, but the necessary VTOL to arrive at the temple. But that Tseng is already there is a good point... Or jsut that Rufus had chased Sephiroth to Rocket Town following the same hints AVALANCHE did, and then realizing he has to get to get to the Temple quickly and his helicopters can't make the trip?
 
#20
The Gelnika is introduced in Junon. I never understood why Rufus didn't start using it then...
Just a minor (but I think notable) addition to this observation...apart from Shinra Jr.'s seeming oblivious to "Gelnika A", there's apparently MORE than one Gelnika! (At least, according to the Wiki, which accounts for at least two: one that safely drops the Huge Materia at Rocket Town, and the other carrying the monsters to attack Sephiroth which gets shot down). Speaking of which, that 2nd part holds up, as the plane is full of feisty freaks, but...do they ever discuss this part of the plan in game? Seems weird to send a cargo plane full of creatures after Seph...were they gonna drop 'em into the crater like the bad guys in Scientology??
 
#21
From the Crisis Core Complete Guide Keyword Collection:
Gelnika

The airship that bombed Banora in Scene 02-16. A transport ship of
the same name appears in “FFVII”, but this is a next generation model
of the Gelnika which appeared in this game, and there are some minor
differences such as the placement of the engine.
There are at least three Gelnika-type aircraft visible at the Junon airport in the original game.




The two Gelnika can also be spotted there in Crisis Core but here we briefly see a zeppelin as well. Unfortunately the camera never allows you to see and appreciate the aircraft in its entirety.








Concept art shows the zeppelin over Midgar and seeing it in-game could have been quite atmospheric but we only ever see it in Junon.


And as for aircraft in general, let's not forget the one at the Costa del Sol port. :monster:

 

pxp

Pro Adventurer
#22
It's interesting to see how the technology changes and/or is upgraded in 7R. For example, will there be regular civilian passenger craft and stuff like that? I can't get out of my head the image of the Gold Saucer as the Las Vegas of this world, with commercial jet-liners flying in and out at a regular basis and so on. But maybe it's just my imagination doing stoopid things.
 
#23
Their helicopters could land at the temple tho. Tseng's did, we must assume.
Do we know he arrived by helicopter? Did it land, or were they just dropped off? AVALANCHE doesn't see one parked.

Given that what Shinra actually sends to the temple seems to be just Tseng and Elena, the Tiny Bronco would be perfect for that kind of mission.
 
#24
It's interesting to see how the technology changes and/or is upgraded in 7R. For example, will there be regular civilian passenger craft and stuff like that? I can't get out of my head the image of the Gold Saucer as the Las Vegas of this world, with commercial jet-liners flying in and out at a regular basis and so on. But maybe it's just my imagination doing stoopid things.
I'm guessing we're gonna see a fair amount more of that type of stuff, just as we did in the Compilation...although if my beloved tramway doesn't make an appearance, I will be sad face (even though the concept of wealthy gamblers traipsing through a burnt out town on their way to the casino is hilarious)
 
#25
The way I solved this in my treatment was to have Palmer repo the plane as part of his yearly budget evaluation thing. Rufus does not need to be there and it has nothing to do with Sephiroth, just some unimportant bean counting bureaucracy carried out by one of Shinra's most unimportant figures.

The real issue is how you have 9 people sail across the ocean and back using a two-seat crop duster as a raft
 
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