Was Shinra doomed from the start?

[BlackSwordMeister]

Between unethical experiments, near-world-ending cataclysms, and generally poor leadership and management, do you think Shinra was doomed to fall anyway during the Compilation? Share your thoughts

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yes, it was.

 

[jazzflower92]

They are so obviously evil that they would eventually lose support from the people.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

They are doomed because they rely on a non-renewable resource which they are exhausting at a very rapid rate. No mako, no electricity; no electricity, no rates; no moolah, no soldiers' pay. Unpaid soldiers are unhappy soldiers, and unhappy soldiers quickly turn on their old paymasters.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

We know Shin-Ra has been around long before mako energy was discovered. So no, I don't think they were doomed from the start. Once they started getting involved with results based research though... yeah, that's where I would say that they became doomed.

 

[Masamune]

Between unethical experiments, near-world-ending cataclysms, and generally poor leadership and management, do you think Shinra was doomed to fall anyway during the Compilation? Share your thoughts

Not necessarily. The White House is still standing.

 

[Skan]

They are doomed because they rely on a non-renewable resource which they are exhausting at a very rapid rate. No mako, no electricity; no electricity, no rates; no moolah, no soldiers' pay. Unpaid soldiers are unhappy soldiers, and unhappy soldiers quickly turn on their old paymasters.

I'm sure that they'd have figured out other things to exploit after mako ran out. If Barret can figure out how to harness the power of oil, there's no doubt in my mind that ShinRa could have done the same given enough time and motivation.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Did Barret 'figure out' how to harness oil or did he just find a really big oilfield?

It's weird that an industrial civilization before Mako didn't figure out oil.

 

[Skan]

Actually, it was Cid and Shera who first started messing with it after Meteor, though even before that happened, ShinRa had apparently already been experimenting with it. From Case of Barret:

"It's only been useless since mako came along. Truth is, oil was supposed to usher in a new era. We even had us some respectable technology to produce different fuels from oil. But once mako showed up, the technology was carried over to mako applications. And so oil had up an' vanished from history."

But Cid continued, explaining how he and his team had pulled out old records and located an oil field. Luckily, it wasn't too far from Rocket Town. On site, they'd found facilities to drill for oil and refine it into gasoline—half-collapsed, maybe, but there nonetheless. Cid and his companions had restored the facilities to an operational status. But gasoline didn't yield enough power.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I think it's more that mako was way more efficient then oil was as an energy source so it was a lot more profitable to make money of off.

 

[Octo]

And they never thought of solar or wind or hydroelectric (when theres at least 2 giant fucking waterfalls IIRC) More than a wee bit ironic there.

 

[Cabaret]

Between unethical experiments, near-world-ending cataclysms, and generally poor leadership and management, do you think Shinra was doomed to fall anyway during the Compilation? Share your thoughts

No I don't think it was. Shinra is a surviving company, you just don't get to be that big and successful by luck, especially if basic key company fundamentals are wobbly. So either,
Shinra was fab and the dodgy crept in over time with a company restructure/shift in vales or mission statement dooming it - unlikely as it's a family business.
Shinra got to where it was through kick backs and bribes it reached a point of no further expansion. Again unlikely as you need a lot of money to do that (hard if the company doesn't actually make money) and what would it be the front for? political power? Ok but they do actually supply electric power don't they? idk it's likely but someone with more knowledge of the OG could probably say if it was likely the case.

I think it's more likely that Shinra is a survivor by investing in different areas. They have the Mako power and know it'll be exhausted at some point so are doing unethical experiments to see if they can make more money from it while it's there. They supply power but also have a military contract with the soldiers (I guess?) so fingers in many pies, when one door closes they have a couple more lined up. The poor management could be middle management due to this level not knowing the bigger picture of the company goals.

idk, it's just another possibility to consider. Big successful evil companies have a habit of sustaining their ability to do business their way. :/

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I like your thinking.

"Shinra make the best stuff."

 

[Cat Rage Room]

And they never thought of solar or wind or hydroelectric (when theres at least 2 giant fucking waterfalls IIRC) More than a wee bit ironic there.

It takes a sizable amount of technology, time and capital to be able to adapt solar/wind/hydroelectric power to an industrial society. After Mako stopped being used, oil is a logical stepover to prevent the terminal and sudden collapse of society.

 

[robotwarui]

And they never thought of solar or wind or hydroelectric (when theres at least 2 giant fucking waterfalls IIRC) More than a wee bit ironic there.

Didn't Cosmo Canyon have a couple wind-catchers up top?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

They are so obviously evil that they would eventually lose support from the people.

Well, you only have to look at North Korea to see how the one doesn't follow from the other. In fact, if I had to choose between Shinra and Kim, Inc., I'd choose Shinra.

 

[robotwarui]

Didn't Cosmo Canyon have a couple wind-catchers up top?

My bad! that was in some fan art.


I don't think they have them.

 

[Cabaret]

^When you said that I was thinking perhaps it was a rudimentary power source used before Mako.... what would have been used before Mako/Oil to develop that industrial society?

@ Lic, I'd rather choose Shinra over Kim inc simply because Shinra is power and money motivated, you can reason and negotiate with that. How can you reason or negotiate with a person who thinks he's a god and it's his divine right to rule over the people?!

 

[Octo]

@Robotwarui

I could have sworn there were windmills at cosmo canyon. EDIT: There is - I can't post the exact time because crappy internet but you can see at least one in this Lets play vid EDIT @ about 2.25 That pic you posted didn't display them because the windmills are animated on another layer (I say as if I know what Im on about)

Anyway what I was getting at, is a substanial element of the game was 'OMG WE GOTTA SAVE THE PLANET!!!1!!' and then they go getting excited about a non sustainable fossil fuel thats going to cause all sorts of pollution.(And if it was some sort of stopgap measure until a better alternative could be implimented why didn't they mention it?)

Maybe Barret has no way of knowing this, maybe nobody in the FFVII world knows this, but SE do, and it just goes to show how ill thought out the compilation was, too busy concentrating on haircuts flying about. /grumpy

 

[robotwarui]

@ Octo
Yah, 'coz I coulda sworn there were windmills at cosmo canyon too.
But I couldn't prove it fast enough searching google images and figured it was my imagination or confusing OG images with other images.
Thanks for that detail about the animated layer, I was thinking too fast !

 

[Skan]

There are windmills everywhere in Banora, actually. Some of them even survived the airstrike.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Anyway what I was getting at, is a substanial element of the game was 'OMG WE GOTTA SAVE THE PLANET!!!1!!' and then they go getting excited about a non sustainable fossil fuel thats going to cause all sorts of pollution.(And if it was some sort of stopgap measure until a better alternative could be implimented why didn't they mention it?)

Maybe Barret has no way of knowing this, maybe nobody in the FFVII world knows this, but SE do, and it just goes to show how ill thought out the compilation was, too busy concentrating on haircuts flying about. /grumpy

I suppose, but they had to do something. After Mako fell, society was already there, up and running. If they didn't find a quick and suitable replacement, society would have collapsed.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

For the reasons Mog mentioned, I don't mind oil being used despite it being finite. What kind of does bother me about it is bringing the thing being analogized (oil) in to sit next to the analogy (mako).

Obviously, it doesn't break the fiction (if they have coal, they have oil anyway), but from a thematic and world construction perspective, it's kind of clashy.

 

[Remnant-of-VII]

If the events of FF7 hadn't played out, Shinra probably could have sustained itself for quite some time.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

If the events of FF7 hadn't played out, Shinra probably could have sustained itself for quite some time.

It would all depend on how fast they were depleting the Lifestream. When we use up all the oil, the oil will be gone but Earth will otherwise be the same, but as they use up the Lifestream, the planet dies, and when the Lifetream is all gone, the planet will crumble into dust. The earth has already died and monsters have multiplied around all the reactors and plants cannot grow in Midgar or in the wastelands. Although the majority of the population is currently burying its head in the sand (so to speak), as the wastelands spread a point will be reached at which it will become obvious to everyone (from the general public to the top executives in Shinra) that mako extraction is killing the planet and will inevitably end in humanity's complete destruction. So, if the events of the OG had never happened, then the questions are: 1. would Shinra voluntarily stop processing mako before the reserves were exhausted, or would this change be forced upon them by an angry and frightened populace, and 2. would humanity decide to abandon mako energy before or after the point of no return, whereever that might be?