Ways the game could be improved

[Channy]

True. To which Dacon, I have to ask. Do you think Aerith's death would be so meaningful, if she wasn't the one who died? Say Tifa was somewhere stirring shit and pissing Sephiroth off, and she got sliced... Do you think it would be the same? What about Barret? Or Red XIII, or even Cloud for that matter?

Just replace the whole "Cetra/City of the Ancients/Prayer" plot with something plausible with any other character, and get rid of shipping Aer/Ti... Do you think the death or any other character would be as tragic?

 

[Max Payne]

Tifa's death probably would have had the same effect if they placed more focus on her character and her feelings before she ran off and got herself killed.

 

[Channy]

So... Only love interests?

 

[Max Payne]

Eh. Cloud's death probably would have the biggest effect. Of course a lot of people think a young woman dying is a bigger deal than a young man, since young women are oh so cute, helpless and innocent.

I don't really think Cloud was too interested in love at the time.

 

[Channy]

Well, love interests according to fans anyway. Kinda a back peddle for feminism that a woman has to die in order for it to be important to the plot.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I agree strongly with that idea. Infact I remember on the FF7 Citadel website there was an article that stated that Aerith and Cloud were intended to fall in love with each other. The letters you see there are actually from square and appear to be genuine. You can read the article here if you are interested (Or if you haven't seen it already ^^

http://www.ff7citadel.com/secrets/sa_letters.shtml

It's a shame they changed this later on.

I would have loved the game to have alternate endings depending on the way you treat people, How many side quests you completed and what characters you looked after more in the game (Similar to the system in FFX).

Preferably an ending where Aerith lives and Cloud pairs off with her but that's just an obvious one. Another one which you can choose Tifa.

I've always wanted to know more about Sephiroth as well so say If you did more research on Sephiroth's madness by looking at all the books in the Shinra mansion, looking into accounts of his missions when he was a soldier in the Shinra HQ, things like that and you would be rewarded with a better insight into what kind of man he really was, what he went through, his childhood, explaining more into how he was corrupted by Jenova ect.

I felt after completing the game it didn't really tie up lose ends which annoyed me but then again I think that all the mysteries, rumours, plot holes and secrets of Final Fantasy 7 are what has made it such a successful game and given it an amazing fan base which I'm thankful for.

xxx

Akemmi

For one, there's absolutely no proof those letters are real. It's outdated speculation that sounds just like what that one guy said, in regards to Aerith being able to be resurrected in the original version of the game's design, but then was taken out when released. That turned out to be a hoax and was also supposedly from some unnamed employee of Square.

Furthermore, that directly contradicts their original idea of who Aerith's love interest was. According to the creators, it was Sephiroth. Then they decided to make it Zack. There has been no commentary at all that states Cloud and Aerith were to fall in love. The creator's have spoken quite extensively of what Aerith's role in the designing days of FFVII were, and that was never mentioned at all.

I don't think I really have to go into how Aerith living or coming back in the end would severely cheapen the impact of her death and the entire point her death was included in FFVII in the first place. It not only served in making the storyline memorable and emotional, but also stood as a statement regarding the death of characters in RPGs, specifically in FF. Its theme was life and how death could come in an instant and without warning. Not only that, but that it was permanent. They'd be going against their own theme if they revived her.

If you want to read some facts regarding the development of FFVII and its characters, check out our site's Ultimania Omega translations of the "Early Material Files" which look at the designing of FFVII. It's here. http://thelifestream.net/tag/final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega-translations/

And if you want more insight into all of that and how Sephiroth became unhinged, that's what Crisis Core is for

Also, there really aren't that many plot holes or unresolved questions regarding FFVII's ending. You can attribute that to either misunderstanding of the storyline or just a bad localization. It's not really that mysterious at all.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Well, love interests according to fans anyway. Kinda a back peddle for feminism that a woman has to die in order for it to be important to the plot.

Tifa doesn't die and she's as important to the plot as Aerith is, so I don't really see where you're drawing that inference from

 

[Channy]

Tifa doesn't die and she's as important to the plot as Aerith is, so I don't really see where you're drawing that inference from

No, I mean like.. Because Tifa and Aerith are the closest characters to Cloud, but they're also female. If Barret were to get shink'd that somehow fit into the plot, it wouldn't be as big a loss because.. he wasn't a love interest. Same goes for Red XIII, Vincent, Yuffie... Granted they're all sub characters to Cloud's main, but so are Tifa and Aerith... but it would only be really tragic for them because.. oh noes </3

 

[Ⓐaron]

I dunno, I thought

Spoiler: (FFV SPOILER)

Galuf dying

was pretty goddamn shocking and at least on the level of Aerith's death, though the fact that I wasn't spoiled for the FFV death probably helped somewhat. Then again Square Enix kind of screwed that one up by

Spoiler: (FFV SPOILER)

having Cara inherit all of Galuf's abilities immediately thereafter - actually losing the stats of a character that you've put time into

is much more shocking.

 

[Channy]

I suppose. I got pretty pissed when I had all her 4 limit breaks and bam. shink. ><

But I dunno, that's just imo

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well to be fair, in FFV, you had a far smaller cast of characters. The loss of one playable character would have significantly handicapped you in the subsequent battles ahead. Not only that, but the game is heavily built on the foundation of level grinding and abilities you choose from the beginning. Having to start from scratch with every job you got from the beginning because of said character's death would make the already difficult game, harder.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yeah good points

 

[Masamune]

Furthermore, that directly contradicts their original idea of who Aerith's love interest was. According to the creators, it was Sephiroth.

Was this with or without the sibling storyline?

 

[Akemmi]

About Sephiroth...

very very interesting the part abut Aerith. I always thought Sephiroth's continuing death and rebirth was annoying. cant he just stay alive through the whole game?

Yeah, I think it confused a lot of people including me for a while. For the entire game up to when Cloud gives Sephiroth the black materia it was Jenova taking on an image of Sephiroth to manipulate Cloud and lead the group towards Sephiroth (that was reconstructed over the course of 5 years after he jumped/was pushed into the mako reactor) to revive him.

"In “FFVII” wherever Cloud and company go there is Sephiroth, but as a matter of fact it’s not Sephiroth’s real body. The headless Jenova stored in the ShinRa Building, is the one who manifests in Sephiroth’s form."

- Exerted from Sephiroth’s translated character profile from the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania.

It's interesting to think that it was actually Jenova who murdered president Shinra and slaughtered most of the people in the Shinra building and she was the one who killed Aerith, killed the Midgar zolem and many other things. So apart from when you see him in flashbacks like when he burned down Nibelheim and before he is given the black materia it's actually Jenova. ^^

xxx

Akemmi

 

[Akemmi]

Clouds relationships do play a major part in FF7

Any outcome where Aerith lives is stupid and detrimental to the game as a whole.

Part of the reason it stood out so much was that she died, and there was nothing you could do to save her. It was supposed to evoke that feeling of emptiness and sorrow that death causes in real life.

Removing that is retarded and destroys one of the most important and unique parts of the game. FF7 isn't about shipping, or who loves who. Cloud's interests in whoever is a very, small part of the game.

I fully understand where you are coming from and it's a very good point that feeling helpless to save Aerith was a major part of the game, I think everyone realised that but I have to disagree that saying Cloud's love interests were a small part of the game. The game actually focuses on it and gives you choices as to whether you take more interest in Aerith or Tifa and depending on how you treat Aerith throughout the game it conveys where you will see her ghost in the church on disk 2, which is shown here...

http://www.ff7citadel.com/secrets/sa_church.shtml

Also the date at the golden saucer as well. The story was originally intended to have Cloud fall in love which is proven by a letter from square here...(Also in my first post)

http://www.ff7citadel.com/secrets/sa_letters.shtml

All in all I know there are many other major themes in FF7 but the theme of love is an important one and it made the game more realistic and enjoyable to me. Thank you for your insight. ^^

xxx

Akemmi

 

[Max Payne]

Cloud's love interests do not play a pivotal role in the game. They just don't. What theme of love? There is none, Cloud can just take a liking to a girl if you want him to. It's not an integral part of the plot, and winds up having little bearing on the game itself. No matter what you do, Cloud still has his date with Aeris, still shares his big moments with Tifa in the Lifestream under the highwind, and everything plays out like it's supposed to. They never make a big point of love.

Regarding your other point, Mako already addressed it.

For one, there's absolutely no proof those letters are real. It's outdated speculation that sounds just like what that one guy said, in regards to Aerith being able to be resurrected in the original version of the game's design, but then was taken out when released. That turned out to be a hoax and was also supposedly from some unnamed employee of Square.

Furthermore, that directly contradicts their original idea of who Aerith's love interest was. According to the creators, it was Sephiroth. Then they decided to make it Zack. There has been no commentary at all that states Cloud and Aerith were to fall in love. The creator's have spoken quite extensively of what Aerith's role in the designing days of FFVII were, and that was never mentioned at all.

That letter crap isn't even applicable.

 

[Akemmi]

For one, there's absolutely no proof those letters are real. It's outdated speculation that sounds just like what that one guy said, in regards to Aerith being able to be resurrected in the original version of the game's design, but then was taken out when released. That turned out to be a hoax and was also supposedly from some unnamed employee of Square.

Furthermore, that directly contradicts their original idea of who Aerith's love interest was. According to the creators, it was Sephiroth. Then they decided to make it Zack. There has been no commentary at all that states Cloud and Aerith were to fall in love. The creator's have spoken quite extensively of what Aerith's role in the designing days of FFVII were, and that was never mentioned at all.

I don't think I really have to go into how Aerith living or coming back in the end would severely cheapen the impact of her death and the entire point her death was included in FFVII in the first place. It not only served in making the storyline memorable and emotional, but also stood as a statement regarding the death of characters in RPGs, specifically in FF. Its theme was life and how death could come in an instant and without warning. Not only that, but that it was permanent. They'd be going against their own theme if they revived her.

If you want to read some facts regarding the development of FFVII and its characters, check out our site's Ultimania Omega translations of the "Early Material Files" which look at the designing of FFVII. It's here. http://thelifestream.net/tag/final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega-translations/

And if you want more insight into all of that and how Sephiroth became unhinged, that's what Crisis Core is for

Also, there really aren't that many plot holes or unresolved questions regarding FFVII's ending. You can attribute that to either misunderstanding of the storyline or just a bad localization. It's not really that mysterious at all.

Thanks for the link but I've already read them. I was just stating what would have made the game better in my opinion and I really wish I wouldn't get the lecture "Aerith's death makes the story memorable and emotional..." whenever I say I would liked her to have lived and to have fallen in love with Cloud. I know fine well her death was intended, Aerith was never meant to be revived in the game and that her death was meant to make us feel helpless to stop death, I would just have liked a more happy ending.

I'd like to believe the letters are real but I do myself know there is no official proof unfortunately.

I have completed crisis core about 4 times fully now and I want to know more regarding his childhood and what he was like before having gone through bad experiences such as when Genesis turns on everyone. When we see Sephiroth in crisis core we see him depressed over the loss of his comrades. It did make me happy to see him smile at the beginning of the clip first class fun though.

 

[Akemmi]

Cloud's love interests do not play a pivotal role in the game. They just don't. What theme of love? There is none, Cloud can just take a liking to a girl if you want him to. It's not an integral part of the plot, and winds up having little bearing on the game itself. No matter what you do, Cloud still has his date with Aeris, still shares his big moments with Tifa in the Lifestream under the highwind, and everything plays out like it's supposed to. They never make a big point of love.

Regarding your other point, Mako already addressed it.



That letter crap isn't even applicable.

*sighs* Ok, you can have your own opinion but you don't have to go to such an effort to try and disprove mine. To me there is a theme of love and if you can't see it then that's fine with me. You could at least try and be more polite when debating something. This is meant to be a topic on ways to improve FF7, why are you interfering with what I think would make the game better anyway?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

FF7 could be improved if Cloud was replaced by Cid as a hero. Cid's more badass, anyways.

 

[Dark and Divine]

But Cid is not bishie enough! D=

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Fuck your bishies. Cid eats them for breakfast with hollandaise sauce. Another reason why Cid would be better than Cloud: no LTD, so everyone could get along.

 

[Akemmi]

FF7 could be improved if Cloud was replaced by Cid as a hero. Cid's more badass, anyways.

That would be awesome, He would run around swearing at everything that moves hahaha. Great idea.

xxx

Akemmi

 

[Dark and Divine]

Fuck your bishies. Cid eats them for breakfast with hollandaise sauce. Another reason why Cid would be better than Cloud: no LTD, so everyone could get along.

Indeed!

 

[Masamune]

Fuck your bishies. Cid eats them for breakfast with hollandaise sauce. Another reason why Cid would be better than Cloud: no LTD, so everyone could get along.

CidxSheraxVincent?

Fans will find a way.

 

[Dark and Divine]

CidxSheraxVincent?

Fans will find a way.

CidxSheraxVincentxLucrecia

Fatal Four Way!