What are the implications for the remake, in regard to the new Crisis Core?

[Roundhouse]

Crisis Core spoils a huge aspect of Final Fantasy VII's story if you never played it all the way through. By releasing a new version of the game now, before REBIRTH has released, what does this imply about the story of P2? Are they really unbothered that so many first time players of remake are going to learn about the big twist via this compilation game rather than via the narrative events as seen in FF7? What do you think?

 

[jeangl123]

Don't worry, Round. It's going to be okay.

 

[Roundhouse]

One thing that is kind of worrying, after rewatching some of CC, is how charismatic Zack is. If he really does play a big role in remake, he's going to steal way too much of the spotlight and attention.

 

[ForceStealer]

They've been very inconsistent about the concept of spoiling the story. They're not gonna remaster Dirge because it will spoil the ending, but CC's fine, which reveals the central twist of the OG? Okay, lol.

Now, from my perspective, this game is 25 years old. The spoilers are plainly out there, there's not much sense in trying to maintain the secrets outside the game. Anyone who got into the Remake fresh and visits an FF reddit or wiki is going to learn everything about Zack anyway. But as I've argued in the discussions about Aerith dying or not dying - at it's core, the impact of the story was in the satisfying way it's told, not the mere "shock" of it. In having us spend more meaningful time with Aerith, and seeing more of her as a person, they have already made the impact of that hypothetical moment harder, even without the surprise. Similarly, the truth of Cloud's past would be every bit as satisfying to behold with the improvements in storytelling and character interaction, even though we already know what's going to happen.

Now, obviously, they have made it very clear that they are not catering to my perspective. So the real answer is probably, as you imply, that the mystery of Cloud's past will not be mystery for long, because we've got a Zack-shaped shoehorn hovering over the game like the sword of Damocles. So if we're gonna mash him into the plot like strawberry preserves, it's more useful that the new audience knows who Zack is than that they don't know about the twist about who Cloud is.

 

[Roundhouse]

Interview snippet courtesy of Jean:

'PC Games: The Crisis Core storyline, or rather the connection between Zack Fair and Cloud Strife, is a pretty big spoiler for Final Fantasy VII. Do you have any concerns, especially given that you might see a plot twist in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth and the third part of the remake trilogy? Shouldn't the story differ greatly from the original in this respect?

Nomura: I'm not really concerned that this could be a spoiler. The original Final Fantasy VII has existed for many years. The first part of the remake has existed too. A lot of people know the twist you mention. Of course, for those fans who weren't introduced to Final Fantasy VII until Remake, there are aspects of Crisis Core that touch on elements that didn't appear in the first installment of the remake trilogy.

But I think that might even be something that makes fans want to know more about how the story continues in Rebirth and the final part of the trilogy. Logically, we haven't revealed whether and if so to what extent the connection between Zack and Cloud has changed in the remake. So I'm not too worried about spoilers, people will want to find out more about the characters and what's going to happen to them after Crisis Core, even if they know the twist already.'

 

[KindOfBlue]

Can somebody find the exact quote about why they won’t remaster DoC? I’ve said this before, but whether or not DoC spoils the remake depends entirely on whether or not the remake ends exactly as the OG does and leads into AC / DoC, which we do not know yet.

at it's core, the impact of the story was in the satisfying way it's told, not the mere "shock" of it.

I think this will vary depending on the person, though. I know in my case, I felt fairly indifferent because I already knew it was coming. Honestly, the OG didn’t really sell me on Aerith much because it almost felt like everything was too telegraphed to set up that moment. I was mainly surprised that it happened halfway through the game and that it wasn’t as bombastic as I assumed it would be.

So I wouldn’t downplay shock so much. It is as genuine a human feeling, and in the right hands it can be and has been a very powerful storytelling tool like any other. On the other hand, I’m glad I had no idea about Cloud’s backstory until I played the game. I wouldn’t be nearly as interested in learning the truth about his past if I already knew how it would all play out. At that point, I’d just be going through the motions and I don’t imagine many storytellers would be okay with their audience being too jaded to be shocked by anything.

 

[Roundhouse]

Nomura's comment is surprising because I've heard that while loads of people know about the Aerith twist, the second big twist of Cloud's identity is much more 'low key' and less known even now.

 

[Ite]

Imagine if that becomes the standard for adaptations in the future. “Well, google exists, so there’s no use faithfully recreating the twists, better to juggle it all up and do something else.”

Like, fuckin what? Whoever says this isn’t a sequel at this point is bonkers

 

[KindOfBlue]

Imagine if that becomes the standard for adaptations in the future. “Well, google exists, so there’s no use faithfully recreating the twists, better to juggle it all up and do something else.”

Like, fuckin what? Whoever says this isn’t a sequel at this point is bonkers

If that’s the way it goes, so be it. Would hardly be the first time a remake of something went in a different direction than the original. No sense still yelling at the Clouds about it at this point.


Not that I expect the remake to be that much radically different, but the remake vs sequel discourse is such a waste of time to me. As if there were ever any rules about what a remake is “supposed” to be anyways. Is it a newer version of a pre-existing work? Yes? There you go, then.

 

[Roundhouse]

It's an Eva Rebuild....which to be fair, sounds fun.

 

[Eerie]

I've said it, but for the previous big surprises (concerning Aerith's fate and Cloud's twist), they're not going for shock anymore. It doesn't mean that they're not going to surprise us anymore, they've settled Sephiroth's goals as a surprise for example.

But this is not a sequel. This is a Remake that is aware that it's a Remake, that there's an original story as well as a Compilation, and is tying everything together. I do not think Rebirth is going to stray far from the OG, if anything ToTP indicates that it's pretty much on the way to follow it, and it's been called the Re- series' backbone.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I've said it, but for the previous big surprises (concerning Aerith's fate and Cloud's twist), they're not going for shock anymore. It doesn't mean that they're not going to surprise us anymore, they've settled Sephiroth's goals as a surprise for example.

But this is not a sequel. This is a Remake that is aware that it's a Remake, that there's an original story as well as a Compilation, and is tying everything together. I do not think Rebirth is going to stray far from the OG, if anything ToTP indicates that it's pretty much on the way to follow it, and it's been called the Re- series' backbone.

They could go for something surprising if they decided to change something up about those twists, especially if Zack is alive this time. I guess we’ll see if they actually go there or not. The substance behind the surprise is just as important as that initial impresssion that you might relive every time you come back to it.

As for the sequel thing, I really have to question how thinking of this as a sequel adds anything to the story unless if the creators themselves view it as such. If it actually were a sequel, wouldn’t the changes to the story retroactively connect to the OG game? Because as of right now, one really could just pretend the whole remake project doesn’t exist if they so desire.

 

[Eerie]

IIRC, Nojima especially has mentioned that he views the project as a retelling of the OG and a way to tie the whole Compilation in it. If that's his opinion then, I don't see how this would fit a sequel as it feels exactly what I've felt with Remake: that we have nods to the OG and the whole Compilation because it's made for fans, to please them, and to create a more unified story.

What they do with Zack is yet to be seen; I've said it but I don't think we'll see him before the 3rd game - not before we lose Cloud in Northern Crater anyway - if he's truly alive. I do think the twist is on his side, but fans may have to understand that the devs may also have made him really dead to tie him with AC, make sure we wouldn't miss his role in Cloud's life (unlike the OG), explain more what happens in the afterlife, and more than anything, since we expect HIM to be alive, make us weep him even more than Aerith.

And then, he may truly be on another universe that diverged from the Remake story with the goal of truly erasing Sephiroth, who knows? I sure don't lol. At this point I'm pretty much opened to anything regarding him, I've made elaborate theories that go in both ways, so I'm waiting patiently because there's not much to do.

 

[Golden Ear]

Apparently Nomura is also noted for saying that Remake is the 5th instalment of the FF7 compilation although I don't know what interview this statement originated. If it's true that the Remake Trilogy is collectively the 5th instalment then it makes sense to include aspects of the previous compilation titles within it.

Personally I don't care about the semantics of defining it as a sequel or not (whether that's a sequel to OG or a sequel to DOC), it doesn't make any difference to what we see with our own eyes when we play through and experience Remake and the following games. People can call it whatever they want.

 

[KindOfBlue]

People can call it whatever they want.

They could, but like seemingly everything else in FF7 discourse, it often warps people’s perceptions of what the remake “should” be and leads to perpetual disappointment over what it isn’t rather than focusing on what it actually wants to do

 

[Golden Ear]

They could, but like seemingly everything else in FF7 discourse, it often warps people’s perceptions of what the remake “should” be and leads to perpetual disappointment over what it isn’t rather than focusing on what it actually wants to do

I agree with you, but the only point I was making is that it's inevitable. I'm just speaking in terms of arguing with other people about it from a semantics point of view. People are going to call it whatever they want, if they get disappointed because of expectations then that's on them. We can't control what other people feel, let them define it whatever way they want. It's possible we could still be having these arguments even after the entire saga is out.