What is the business of post-meteor Shinra?

Rydeen

Marty McFlyin’
#1
There is a fair amount of background on what Shinra is doing post-meteor, but none of it pertains to revenue, unless I'm missing something (I never actually finished DoC - I've only read summaries). According to the novellas and what I know of DoC, Shinra provides substantial financial support to the WRO and provides Geostigma medication as a public service. They built a monument, provide medical services, attempted to perform research on Geostigma, and procured some of their original staff. Thanks to the Turks, they managed to secure some assets when the meteorfall chaos ensued. They appear to still be a fairly formidable company in spite of their massive losses. Aside from perhaps liquidating some of their assets, I'm wondering how they are generating income. What is/are their product(s)/business? Spreading thin on random projects and relying on liquidation is not a great business strategy, so I think it's safe to assume that alternative energy sources are a major and obvious source of interest, but I don't recall any of the novellas actually making reference to Shinra's source of income or Shinra involvement in other forms of energy, such as oil. Do we even know where Edge's electricity comes from?
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#2
While the Shinra Electric Power Company may be gone and out of business, remember that was not the only means of revenue the corporation relied on.

Like most large scale businesses of Japan (and the world), Shinra Inc was actually a conglomerate. The Shinra Electric Power Company was just part of the overall corporate entity that was Shinra Inc. Shinra's most profitable business was Mako Extraction but they presumably made lots of money in various other ventures. Like weapons manufacturing, entertainment, property investment, and given the fact that they were the de facto world government, I wouldn't be surprised if they extracted some form of revenue or tax from localities and villages that used their services such as Reactors, SOLDIER, maintenance, etc.

Rufus Shinra presumably sits on trillions of gil that are in savings and presumably still in property. He lost billions and billions of gil and the majority of his most profitable businesses but even after Meteorfall there are still loyal employees who continue to work for Shinra. Beyond just the Turks. Instead of being a world controlling trillion dollar corporation, they're now a mid-size privately held corporation doing philanthropic work and helping the world become stable and democratic.

At the end of the day though, Rufus is still rich. :monster:
 

Rydeen

Marty McFlyin’
#3
They were obviously a conglomerate, but I find it a little strange that there doesn't seem to be even an offhanded mention of their actual revenue generating activities in spite of many references to their expenses, philanthropy, and lawsuits, so the major intent behind this thread is to check if I'm missing a canon bit of material on this. They had their hands in everything, and I'm wondering what they still have their hands in. With their staff and net worth being so dramatically reduced, as well as their PR nightmare, many of their companies and projects would no longer be feasible to operate. Entertainment sounds sensible.. in areas that have electricity and if Shinra has a sufficient staff in that area. Rufus still likes his custom guns and the WRO would be a very lucrative client for weapons manufacturing, so perhaps their weapons are made by Shinra. Property investment is a given. Overall I agree with your assessment. I also like to think that they are also looking into alternative energies, even though there doesn't seem to be evidence of that at this time.

The post-meteor economy sounds like a fun area for fanfiction.
 
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#5
Rich people don't have billions in savings. It doesn't just sit there in the bank, what would be the point of that? Their money is normally divided into the business finances and their personal finances.

Business:
In addition to the electricity generating business, Shinra will have owned in whole or part some or all of the following
- mines and quarries
- shipping
- farms and food processing
- steel and other building supplies
- cars, trucks, buses, ships, helicopters, trains manufacturing
- digital, radio and print media
- banks
etc...

Personal finance
- land - either worked directly for them or rented out
- property - rented out
- mortgages on other people's property
- shares in their own and other people's businesses
- gold, silver, jewels
- works of art

Rufus's major problem post-meteor would be enforcing his rights (or 'rights') over these possessions. Without an army and police force, how does Shinra enforce its patents or copyrights? What's he going to do when people stop paying their mortgages or their rents? What's he going to do when the factory foreman turns around and says, "Shinra's kaput, boys. This factory is a worker's collective now!"

Gil could possibly lose its value after Meteor. It depends on a lot of factors including what it's made of (gold? Paper?) and what authority was guaranteeing its value. Shinra? That probably won't be a problem for Rufus since he will have a lot of specie. He probably controls the world supply of gold. His first move will have been to secure it.
 

Rydeen

Marty McFlyin’
#6
That's another reason why weapons manufacturing would probably be a good decision for the immediate. Shinra has to maintain the delicate balance of becoming a more moral company in accordance with Rufus' change of heart, while at the same time survive in a time where law and order is not as stable/enforceable, and maintain an image that balances charitability with a certain degree of ruthless survivalism. They'll give you medication, but if you take more than your ration you're getting an exciting visit from the Turks. We know that the Turks managed to lock down a warehouse in CoS, but I don't know what other Shinra possessions the company was able to secure during Rufus' long absence. Obviously not just that, because I don't see how they would be able to function at their current level.

I don't think that Gil has lost too much of its value. The world doesn't seem to reflect the level of chaos associated with a complete collapse of a currency.
 
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Erotic Materia

Nani the fuck, weebs?
#8
Gil could possibly lose its value after Meteor. It depends on a lot of factors including what it's made of (gold? Paper?)
I never before thought about what Gil actually looks like, and now it's killing me. I know it's a gold-colored coin, and that's it.

BUT I HAVE QUESTIONS!

-Are they all single denomination?
-If there are multiple denominations, are they still made from the same base material/all coins?
-Is there an insignia on it?
-Are people running around with medieval-style coinpurses, jangling all over the place?
-If not, where do they keep their massive stores of coins?
-Oh my god there's something very wrong with this game
-WHY ISN'T THERE MORE INFORMATION ON THIS?
 
#11
Go back to weapons manufacturing. They'd lose a lot of property investments with Midgar, but still be a big player.

We know they built Edge and sold fake medicine. Could probably get some contracts from the WRO under the table.

Rufus's major problem post-meteor would be enforcing his rights (or 'rights') over these possessions. Without an army and police force, how does Shinra enforce its patents or copyrights? What's he going to do when people stop paying their mortgages or their rents? What's he going to do when the factory foreman turns around and says, "Shinra's kaput, boys. This factory is a worker's collective now!"
"This is a nice factory. It'd be a shame if something happened to it..."

(Mysterious fire the next night)

"Do I have your attention now?"
 
#12
Clem, why do you say they sold fake medicine? They didn't.

On top of which, selling snake oil is just not Rufus Shinra's style. It's such a cheap, vulgar, shyster-y thing to do. I'm not saying they didn't do plenty of villainous stuff (although there's precious little villainy coming from the Shinra agents in the post-Meteor world). But selling fake medicine would be completely out of character for them.
 
#13
I meant the geostigma painkiller. Reading up on it, if they really distribute for free en masse, then I was wrong. But:

'Hey, terminally ill people, have this wonder drug that will make you feel better...temporarily, with diminishing returns as you get used to it, so you'll presumably have to take more. It won't help you with the underlying problem, but you'll feel better for a while.

Steal from our supply (even to help your kid brother sleep through the night) or cross us in some way, though, and we send thugs to kick the shit out of you. We're a caring company'

That situation is so very creepy.

If everyone in the story is telling the truth, great. If anyone involved is even slightly less than above board, the opportunities for abuse here are staggering.

Edit: In theory, this looks great, but in practice, what you'll end up with is a lot of desperate people with little to lose becoming dependent on it very quickly, with everything that entails.
 
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Rydeen

Marty McFlyin’
#15
When you put it that way... :monster:

However, they are giving it away for free, and given that recon is their specialty, the Turks, second only to Rufus in authority, would definitely catch on if significant amounts were being skimmed off the supply chain and sold on the streets. Based on private conversations, I think it's clear that the top echelon of Shinra does not want to cause any more public health issues even though they still desire dominance. It was Elena's idea, for the sake of her new friends, to do this, so I think she especially would be angry.

Also, even for a free palliative medication, there needs to be consequences for stealing. Shinra can't afford to be seen as weak in the current sociopolitical climate.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#16
Keeping in mind that Elena is shown to be the most Head Bitch In Charge of the Turks, and we still get this --

Chapter 7 of The Kids Are Alright said:
As Elena took off her gloves, stained with Fabio’s blood, she went over to the bed, where a child was, and dramatically wiped the green sheets with the gloves. Fabio was groaning on the floor, holding his belly. Blood flowed from the corner of his mouth as he writhed in pain.

“Scumbag.”

She went in there with the intention of breaking his good arm— but when she saw that Fabio was trying to protect his younger brother, she changed her mind. The purpose of the visit was to teach the thief a lesson, not to deprive a child with Geostigma of their guardian. She had imagined him to be a petty thief, out to make money selling the medicine, but that wasn’t the case. A thief would be cunning, talking his way out of trouble, smiling the whole time, and taking a defiant attitude, or saying things in desperation. Showing the circumstances behind it is what cowards do.

Elena grabbed the packs of pills sitting next to the bed, and was about to leave. But she changed her mind and threw them at the child.

“If you keep using them, they’ll stop working, so save them for when you feel really bad. A quarter tablet at a time is enough for a child. Or else you’ll overdose.”
Chapter 9 said:
“That female Turk sounds scary.”

“Yeah. Though Vits told me she taught him how to take the medicine. She said children only needed to take a quarter.”

“I don’t understand,” Kyrie looked puzzled. “She said that after beating Fabio?”

“Violence is a job for the Turks,” Leslie concluded. “She understood why Fabio stole the medicine. She sympathized with Vits’ pain.”
-- as well as that Shin-Ra were dedicated to locating and neutralizing the underlying cause of Geostigma (i.e. Jenova) while keeping the pain it was causing at bay for as long as possible, I feel you've drastically misunderstood or misremembered the story, @Clement Rage
 

Rydeen

Marty McFlyin’
#17
And that's retribution for a petty thief, not for organized crime. It shows they're willing to do what's necessary to prevent abuse. The fact that she shows mercy when she realizes he stole it for family also shows that they have developed a greater sense of morality. Reno and Rufus seem to have a similar attitude. In that story in particular, Rufus sees that Evan is a stupid kid with no family trying to survive, so he goes out of his way to avoid hurting him and gave him his gun (or maybe it was a knife). Tseng and Rude are kinda quiet, but Rude tends to be on the same page as Reno.
 
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#18
As the others have said, I think you are reading it wrong, Clem. All of those On The Way To A Smile novellas are about finding redemption by accepting your mistakes and leaning in to what you are. Barret has to find a constructive purpose for a man with a gun arm. Tifa has to come to terms with the lives she helped to take. Rufus has to lean in to his natural-born leadership and do something to help heal the world in his own Shinra way. I don't believe this is just my headcanon, I believe it's how Nojima sees his characters. He would manufacture and give away a medicine that helps with Geostigma, but he wouldn't do it deliberately for the sake of getting them all hooked and desperate. The addictiveness is a side-effect that they're trying to keep under control. Things he would do, I believe, include quietly bumping off undesireable individuals who in his view are gaining too much political influence in Edge, or marching his army into a factory that is failing for lack of leadership and taking it over by force. He believes power should be effective, but not malevolent. He's not malevolent.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
#19
I always felt like the post meteor stuff with Rufus was building up to some big thing in an FF7 sequel we never got. I'm not saying Rufus is malevolent necessarily, but I always felt like he had some unspoken ulterior motive.
 
#20
Yes, everyone always suspects Rufus of that. It's probably the same in his own world. The funny thing is, though, if you study his character closely, he never lies. The closest he gets to it is bending the truth somewhat to his advantage. He's one of those people who could become an absolute saint and even on his deathbed everyone would be wondering what his real angle was.
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#21
Yes, everyone always suspects Rufus of that. It's probably the same in his own world. The funny thing is, though, if you study his character closely, he never lies. The closest he gets to it is bending the truth somewhat to his advantage. He's one of those people who could become an absolute saint and even on his deathbed everyone would be wondering what his real angle was.
Rufus: And what do you think we found? Relax – we didn’t find anything.

Rufus: I’d never keep a secret. Not from a comrade.

Kadaj: Boy, do I hate liars.

Rufus: I apologise. Ths time you get the truth. The object you seek fell from the helicopter while we were running from you. I’m afraid we were careless.

Kadaj: Is that right?

Rufus: I swear it.

These seem like outright lies to me, and tell us he had been lying to Kadaj before the movie started in order to convince them Cloud was the one in possession of Jenova.
 
#22
Yeah, I have to hold up my hands there and admit that he did lie to Kadaj on numerous occasions. I would argue that in this instance, his lies are being wielded as a weapon again a force of evil, and are both necessary and good. Except for landing Cloud in it, that was bad, I agree. Good thinking there, Roger. However, I defy you to find an instance where Rufus lies for the sake of it or out of malice. I know this makes me sound like a Rufus apologist, and I suppose I am. I'm not denying he is an antagonist or that Tifa and Cloud feel sullied whenever they're forced to work with him. What I'm arguing is that he's a lot less evil than some people think he is, but - in his world - his Shinra heritage means he's cursed to have all his actions judged in the worse possible light. Are people justified in being wary of him? Yes. Are they right? Probably only some of the time.
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#23
Yeah, I have to hold up my hands there and admit that he did lie to Kadaj on numerous occasions. I would argue that in this instance, his lies are being wielded as a weapon again a force of evil, and are both necessary and good. Except for landing Cloud in it, that was bad, I agree. Good thinking there, Roger. However, I defy you to find an instance where Rufus lies for the sake of it or out of malice. I know this makes me sound like a Rufus apologist, and I suppose I am. I'm not denying he is an antagonist or that Tifa and Cloud feel sullied whenever they're forced to work with him. What I'm arguing is that he's a lot less evil than some people think he is, but - in his world - his Shinra heritage means he's cursed to have all his actions judged in the worse possible light. Are people justified in being wary of him? Yes. Are they right? Probably only some of the time.
Hojo
There is no such thing as the Promised Land. it's a legend... an old wives tale...... it's utterly ridiculous.

Rufus
Everything's as I imagined it to be. Isn't it splendid?
It is that kind of dullness that makes you a second-rate scientist.
I would argue that in this instance Rufus is bending the truth for no greater purpose then to belittle Hojo for the sake of it.
 
#24
Rufus is just calling it like he sees it, which isn't the same thing as bending the truth. Being wrong isn't the same thing as lying. I can't imagine Hojo took offense. It's not as if Hojo isn't a specialist himself in belittling others. Hojo also calls it like he sees it and couldn't care less if people's feelings are hurt, and probably his one redeeming feature is his willingness to freely admit he was wrong when proven to be so.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
#25
I forgot what a bitch Rufus was with that "it totally fell out of the helicopter, bro" line. What a punk.

I just can't see the guy who once boldly declared he would "control the world with fear." Could suddenly become an altruist. We know he's helping people with healin lodge, using the Turks to dispose of undesirables, and secretly funding the WRO. I can't help but think he's trying to raise his image so that Shinra may one day be raised to its former position.
 
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