What Plot Lines or Characters Do You Think Are Ignored/Overlooked/Wasted In The Compilation?

jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
#1
There are two tropes on television tropes about when people felt there was subplot/character they felt was not fleshed out as well or ignored. The character I think is ignored the most in the Compilation is Dr.Gast who seems to never really be focused on even when a game should have featured him cough*Dirge of Cerberus* cough. Or the fact that we have never been told about Sephiroth's childhood or any details about his time in the Wutai War. Not to mention the fact that Lazard should have been the big bad of Crisis Core since he would have been more interesting than you know who.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot
 

The Man

Great Old One
AKA
Aaron
#2
What Plot Lines or Characters Do You Think Are Ignored/Overlooked/Wasted In The Compilation?
All of them, Katie.

/thread


seriously though, nearly everyone is wasted in the sequels (edit: and prequels, can't forget prequels) because Square Enix seems to have forgotten how to write compelling plot lines
 

jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
#3
All of them, Katie.

/thread


seriously though, nearly everyone is wasted in the sequels because Square Enix seems to have forgotten how to write compelling plot lines
A trend I noticed in their sequels from other tiles. I mean look what the mess that was leaked about X-3.
 

The Man

Great Old One
AKA
Aaron
#4
Indeed; FFX-2 was questionable enough but the post-FFX-2 audiobook and novel stuff was just cringe-worthy. At least Bravely Default seems to suggest that the company may be starting to get some of its mojo back. If we keep our fingers crossed and knock on wood, maybe.
 
AKA
The Engineer
#6
^^Well... there was that whole Wutai affair where the Turks pretty blatantly ignored what Shin-Ra was telling them in favor of working with AVALANCHE to take down Don Corneo. Not to mention that you can set it up that you don't have to fight the majority of the boss fights with them afterwards. I can buy that AVALANCHE and the Turks are willing to give each other the benefit of the doubt after Meteorfall.

Now replace the Turks with the Army or the remaining SOLDIERs and yeah... wasted plot-line...
 
#7
This thread title is so epic. It's like seeing the Ents release the river into Isengard all over again. BREAK THE DAAAM! RELEASE THE RIVER!

The Compilation missed out by not including a very important sound cue that was present in the original game: The cry of the planet.

- Sound effects 'planet scream' and 'planet cry' (in that order)


The sound of the planet is a tiny but important detail. The lack of these sound effects, or renewed versions of them, make the Compilation titles feel all the more distant from the original PS1 title.

I would have liked for the Compilation titles to help specify further just who can hear the cry of the planet and in what circumstances. It isn't enough with some hints in the Ultimania Omega. I wish some in-game content had involved the cry of the planet.

The closest we get in the Compilation is the "cry of the souls in Midgar" at the beginning of Dirge of Cerberus, but that's not the planet cry.
 
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jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
#8
I really feel like they don't really explore the fact that Final Fantasy 7 is the future of Final Fantasy 10. It could be an easy way to explain Jenova's origins if she was originally from Spira.
 
#9
^^Well... there was that whole Wutai affair where the Turks pretty blatantly ignored what Shin-Ra was telling them in favor of working with AVALANCHE to take down Don Corneo. Not to mention that you can set it up that you don't have to fight the majority of the boss fights with them afterwards. I can buy that AVALANCHE and the Turks are willing to give each other the benefit of the doubt after Meteorfall.

Now replace the Turks with the Army or the remaining SOLDIERs and yeah... wasted plot-line...
'Working with' is an over statement, they just agreed not to impede each other until the Don had been dealt with. And its completely optional anyway.

SOLDIER and the army don't do anything directly to AVALANCHE through the game, at least on a personal level. There's an argument for the burning or Corel, but there's no character to anyone involved except Scarlet. Sector seven was a bit different. Cloud hasn't been there long, but Tifa and Barret have lived there for quite a while, most likely. They will have lost a lot of people they knew when it fell. That's the kind of thing people hold grudges over, at least enough to not be visibly pleased to get a phonecall and pass on the message with no particular comment.

Edit: On Spira, I'm pretty sure that was a throwaway piece of fan service, they weren't expecting people to run with it.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#10
'Working with' is an over statement, they just agreed not to impede each other until the Don had been dealt with. And its completely optional anyway.

SOLDIER and the army don't do anything directly to AVALANCHE through the game, at least on a personal level. There's an argument for the burning or Corel, but there's no character to anyone involved except Scarlet. Sector seven was a bit different. Cloud hasn't been there long, but Tifa and Barret have lived there for quite a while, most likely. They will have lost a lot of people they knew when it fell. That's the kind of thing people hold grudges over, at least enough to not be visibly pleased to get a phonecall and pass on the message with no particular comment.
Remember that Tifa blames herself for Sector 7 too, as does Barret. I really think the Compilation handled the Turks/AVALANCHE interaction very well -- one of the few things it did so well and more could have been done with, honestly.

With Advent Children at least, they managed to continue building on the original game theme of the "heroes" and the "villains" not being all that different, and all of them knowing it. It was surprisingly done with subtlety at that.

Clement Rage said:
On Spira, I'm pretty sure that was a throwaway piece of fan service, they weren't expecting people to run with it.
Square themselves ran with it since Cid's new airship was Spiran.
 
#11
There are plenty but the one that hurts the most is Zack on the road with Cloud because they even mentioned they were going to expand it, and instead it got scratched to focus on something completely uninteresting (Genesis).

In retrospect, focusing more on before the whole incident makes sense because when it finally comes, you've already got emotionally attached to Zack and got to watch his disillusionment with Shinra. But I still feel like watching Zack cart around a nearly catamose Cloud would have been really compelling.
 

Skan

Pro Adventurer
AKA
dief
#12
... really? I feel that was one of the few things they got right in CC.

I mean, I like Zack and Cloud just about as much as the next guy, but goddamn, it would've been really boring to play. To me, it's something that seems far more suited to fic than to action/adventure gameplay.

Maybe if CC were more of a puzzle game, but ... I can always just play Ico or Portal if I want to drag around a large inanimate object to which I've gotten attached.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#13
I wish there had been more of that as well. Maybe not make all of the gameplay in that section revolve around it (the Cloud rescue portion of the Nibelhem escape scenario would become stupid and tedious if repeated), but, sure, if it was made fun, some of it could be. More story involving it would have been nice, though. Really emphasize Zack's isolation and loneliness during that time with a comatose buddy being his only companion -- sort of his Wilson, if you will.
 
#14
Crisis Core would have benefitted from

1) Unlocking a DMW Theatre so you can rewatch all the DMW cutscenes at your leisure
2) Having more DMW scenes

DMW scenes become more forgettable and disjointed from one another because they are randomly triggered and not an inevitable part of each playthrough. Additional DMW scenes could have included more of the aforementioned stuff with Zack dragging Cloud around, just to mention one possible expansion.

I can understand issues with the size of the UMD, plus game releases tend to get pushed far off anyway because of a desire to include MOAR, so there is probably good reason for why we didn't get more DMW scenes. But the lack of a DMW Theatre really irks me and I don't think such a feature would have pushed the UMD beyond its limits.
 
#15
I mean, I like Zack and Cloud just about as much as the next guy, but goddamn, it would've been really boring to play. To me, it's something that seems far more suited to fic than to action/adventure gameplay.
Combat wise I'm not sure what would have changed really. It's still one person fighting monsters. The only difference is that there could be more diversity.

I mean, he dragged Cloud from Nibelheim to Midgar. Think of all the places they could have made him gone through. Cosmo Canyon, North Corel/Gold Saucer, Junon, Chocobo Farm or the marshes, that place with that really annoying mini game with the phoenix materia I can't remember right now. You could fight a Zolom as a boss, or make you sneak through Junon past all the Shinra soldiers. Ride a chocobo, or have a chase scene.

It's not like you can't get MORE repetitive than the amount of side missions they throw at you. I enjoyed them well enough but after awhile, everything is monotone. You could have halved the missions, there would still be plenty, and give some of the rewards to the main mission.

Really emphasize Zack's isolation and loneliness during that time with a comatose buddy being his only companion -- sort of his Wilson, if you will.
This. They missed a good opportunity to really build a feeling of isolation that would have stuck with the player.

I suppose though, there's only so much you can do with a small budget PSP game.

1) Unlocking a DMW Theatre so you can rewatch all the DMW cutscenes at your leisure
2) Having more DMW scenes
I felt like the DMW was there specifically for the ending scene where it breaks down. Honestly I didn't feel much about the DMW other than it was a little clunky, not terrible, but an odd addition to the combat. I didn't particularly care for it, some of the scenes were nice but I don't understand why they didn't fit it somewhere else rather than break up my combat.

And then the final fight and I was like, ah yes. I get it now. Playing through a broken DMW was actually quite powerful imo. Wish it was more fun before that though.
 
#16
Remember that Tifa blames herself for Sector 7 too, as does Barret. I really think the Compilation handled the Turks/AVALANCHE interaction very well -- one of the few things it did so well and more could have been done with, honestly.

With Advent Children at least, they managed to continue building on the original game theme of the "heroes" and the "villains" not being all that different, and all of them knowing it. It was surprisingly done with subtlety at that.
Really? I thought that was one of their major screw ups, honestly. Even if you don't openly despise someone, it's a bit of a stretch to be pleased to talk to the guy responsible for the deaths of a number of your friends and colleagues.
If Hojo phoned Vince at the start of Dirge, would you expect Vince's response to be "Oh, it's you. Been a while. S'up? You want something delivered? Funny you should ask, my friend runs a delivery service, I'll let him know."

Barret blames himself for the reactor bombings, not sector seven. And Tifa has one piece of dialogue in the immediate aftermath, but Barret calls her on it.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#17
I definitely think there should have been an actual conversation about it at some point ("Why do you tolerate the Turks being around?" or "How can you be friendly with them after all that's happened?" -- something), but, yeah, I do think it was done well.

As for Barret, you may be right about him not feeling any guilt over Sector 7 like Tifa. I may have conflated those things in my memory.

Clement Rage said:
And Tifa has one piece of dialogue in the immediate aftermath, but Barret calls her on it.
It comes up again in Episode:Tifa. She feels bad about the reactor bombings and Sector 7 as well, which is why she felt raising Denzel was her responsibility.
 

Skan

Pro Adventurer
AKA
dief
#18
I loathe how Cloud regained his identity in the OG, and I loathe how lightly the game treated his "recovery" after Mideel (which is to say, it really didn't). I can understand why they presented it the way they did -- the video game medium really restricts what scenes are possible -- but to me, it's probably the greatest storytelling blunder in the entire Compilation.
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#19
Crisis Core should've been told as the story Zack tells Cloud as they are travelling. Maybe they felt they exhausted that method of storytelling with X and X-2 tho.

I loathe how Cloud regained his identity in the OG, and I loathe how lightly the game treated his "recovery" after Mideel (which is to say, it really didn't). I can understand why they presented it the way they did -- the video game medium really restricts what scenes are possible -- but to me, it's probably the greatest storytelling blunder in the entire Compilation.
Too true.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
#20
They didn't show as much of Zack and Cloud's friendship as they could have. I'm also not satisfied with what the compilation has shown us of SOLDIER. I gotta wonder what happened to them post OG.
 
#21
They didn't show as much of Zack and Cloud's friendship as they could have.
That's because they were more like friendly acquaintances than people with a developed friendship :monster:

I think a lot of lines given to the characters in the Compilation were simply not well thought through. Tifa giggling at Reno when he calls to ask for Cloud is one. The only way I can excuse it is that she's under huge stress wondering where Cloud is, and is determined not to let Reno realise, so she overcompensates. But really, it was a bad piece of writing.

Another one is in Before Crisis when Veld and all the BC Turks show up to help with the evacuation of Midgar. Someone - Tseng? Reno? - wonders if 'the others' are coming back to work now, and Veld says, 'they're also leading their own lives now..." (XComp's translation). Now IIRC the time that elapses between the end of BC and the destruction of Midgar by Meteor is around 3-4 months at the absolute most; hardly enough time for long-serving professional Turks to create a whole new life for themselves. The line is there to explain away why these Turks don't appear in Advent Children, but it doesn't actually make any sense. Plus, their loyalty to Shinra and each other was their defining feature, so why would they suddenly decide they didn't want to be Turks any more? I don't know why Square couldn't have said that they were continuing to work under Rufus and Tseng's direction all over the planet.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
#22
I have trouble thinking Cloud reacted to Zack's death the way he did if they were anything less than close friends. The amount of interaction we DO see is enough to presume they're closer than mere acquaintances. I mean, it's not like they show that much of Zack and Aerith's relationship or Zack's friendship with anyone else for that matter, such as Kunsel. They don't really show much of Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth's apparent friendship either, though they're not exactly on good terms during CC.

That most of the Turks were apparently recruited during BC from what I understand is another thing I find ridiculous about that game.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#23
It is odd when you think about it how the BC Turks buggered off to lead new lives in that short span of time, not because of the length of time, really (they were probably trying to stay off Shin-Ra's radar), but because they were apparently still on call for Reeve to briefly recruit to help him save Tseng halfway through that four-month gap, then returned again at the end of it to evacuate Midgar -- and yet seemingly had no interest in returning to be Turks for almost two years.

They didn't show as much of Zack and Cloud's friendship as they could have. I'm also not satisfied with what the compilation has shown us of SOLDIER. I gotta wonder what happened to them post OG.
Many of them joined Deepground.
 

jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
#24
I have trouble thinking Cloud reacted to Zack's death the way he did if they were anything less than close friends. The amount of interaction we DO see is enough to presume they're closer than mere acquaintances. I mean, it's not like they show that much of Zack and Aerith's relationship or Zack's friendship with anyone else for that matter, such as Kunsel. They don't really show much of Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth's apparent friendship either, though they're not exactly on good terms during CC.

That most of the Turks were apparently recruited during BC from what I understand is another thing I find ridiculous about that game.
That's another problem Square has is they Tell, But Don't Show.
 
AKA
The Engineer
#25
You kinda wonder what could have been shown if CC was a manga/anime/novella instead of a game. I think that would have fit the story SE was trying to tell better. At it's heart, CC is much more a political thriller then an action flick.
 
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