What the Remake Soundtrack should sound like

hian

Purist
This needs sharing, because as far as I'm concerned this is probably the best full remasters of FFVII tracks that I know of.
I give you Pontus Hultgren, my definite candidate for the Remake soundtrack :

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxAX2CW8tcpq9Sg-wrwSyQh_5gs-mMcOv

Like seriously. This is what the remake needs to sound like.
It's all beautiful.

I'd recommend people have a listen to the Mako Reactor, On That Day 5 Years Ago (it transitions into Those Chosen By The Planet half way through and it's epic), and You Can Hear The Cries of The Planet.

Like, just listen to this and tell me it isn't fantastic.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Yes. Very muchly yes. It sounds like how it was fucking supposed to - retaining the original melodies and atmosphere. Or at least the tracks I've heard so far do.

I just hope someone from SE has seen this and takes note. :monster:
 

hian

Purist
Yeah, I'm thinking I need to start tweeting the hell out of this in Japanese at the SE members account, because this is just so much win. The Bombing theme he's made goes better than the original track with the game-play trailer =S

Also, this guy is criminally under-subscribed. Someone call the youtube-police.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Currently listening to it. It's not bad though I have a few issues. :P
Underneath the Rotting Pizza's guitars are a bit too overbearing. It sounds a bit too dramatic rather than oppressive.
Still More Fighting on the other hand needs more rock.
I feel like JENOVA needs to be more electronic rather than orchestral.

Also, pet peeve of mine: Remastering refers to the enhancement/creation of a new master of an existing recording rather than a re-recording or rearrangement.
 

hian

Purist
Currently listening to it. It's not bad though I have a few issues. :P
Underneath the Rotting Pizza's guitars are a bit too overbearing. It sounds a bit too dramatic rather than oppressive.
Still More Fighting on the other hand needs more rock.
I feel like JENOVA needs to be more electronic rather than orchestral.

Also, pet peeve of mine: Remastering refers to the enhancement/creation of a new master of an existing recording rather than a re-recording or rearrangement.

Yeah, I can agree that there are a few issues.
I've yet to find a single remade/remixed/rearranged track that hits full marks on everything (and I doubt that can be done universally in either case due to perceptions amongst fans being different), but this guy scores the highest yet (and I count official SE ones among the competition here).

I felt that Jenova's brass was to low on the mix, and that its percussion sounded a bit weak/low in the mix (that's a problem in general in all the fighting themes he's covered so far).
This is hard to get right though, because most other covers/remixes etc I hear go completely over-board on those instead, which I feel damages the dynamics of the songs (loudness war trends and all that =P). At least in his variation, if you apply an equalizer you can somehow make up for this, and it's still pretty solid because the tracks all come through so well.
The same can't for most of the other covers that go all out ballistic on the bass and percussion.

I would keep to standardized music terms if I was on a different board, but in this context I just went instinctively with what I recognize is the easiest for people to get without getting confused =P
In my experience, lay-people use remaster instead of re-recording, re-arrangement or remix because it viscerally sounds like there is less change except in terms of audio-fidelity and instrumental quality as opposed to these others which sound like they entail compositional changes as well (granted some of these tracks do change the composition to an extent as well).

Personally, I'd feel that re-recording and re-arrangement might be misleading in the context of certain game soundtrack covers because A.) they're not usually recorded, they're digitally made using high-fidelity VSTs, and
B.) they're not really re-arranging much of anything, since they're running the original midi through the VST with a higher quality corresponding instrument that the midi section was initially meant to emulate.

This guy is re-arranging things though, so you're point stands regardless. Just didn't want to give the impression that I'm thoughtlessly propagating bad language =P

EDIT :
Perhaps, thinking about it now, the best term to go with would be "cover", although that does have some baggage of primarily being associated with band-music.
 
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Pixel

The Pixie King
It is definitely the best fan made version of the soundtrack, but I know Square Enix can do better. No version of the opening comes close to the distant worlds version of Bombing Mission that we hear in the trailer. That is the benchmark for the quality for me.

It really all comes down to instrumentation choices, rather than arrangement with fan versions.

I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here too, because it sounds perfect
I think there might be a little snippet of Those Chosen by the Planet from the remake soundtrack in this advert. I dont know if they've ever done a version at concerts or other compilation titles.

https://youtu.be/YpYeFJGyxB0?t=1m47s
 

hian

Purist
It is definitely the best fan made version of the soundtrack, but I know Square Enix can do better.

I'm not at all sure I would agree with this knowing the other reworked versions of FFVII tracks found in spin-off titles - many whom to me sound either over-worked and poorly mixed, or just flat. We can hope though.

No version of the opening comes close to the distant worlds version of Bombing Mission that we hear in the trailer. That is the benchmark for the quality for me.

I never much liked the Distant World's one.
It's sound-levels and transitions are way off in my opinion and its percussion is far too weak.

Given that the Distant World ones is as far as I know, an analog recording of an orchestra, that might be what I take issue with - but in my opinion it also lacks the gamey "omph" of the original with the absence of more pronounced percussion, the synth, and synth bass that winds up the track in the original.

That's why I was actually really disappointed that they went with that for the trailer.

Listening to both of them back to back, I prefer this one by a long-shot.

As for those Chosen By The Planet - give it a listen :
https://youtu.be/SBmtFlZzsBM?list=PLxAX2CW8tcpq9Sg-wrwSyQh_5gs-mMcOv&t=89


EDIT :
On a completely different note though - Cid's Theme is %&$%$# perfect.
 
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ForceStealer

Double Growth
  • Opening/Bombing Mission is indeed excellent, I would be very happy with that.
  • Mako Reactor is a very cool rendition, but I would prefer that track to be more industrial and electronic and less orchestrated.
  • Anxious Heart is very good, although I would still like a full-version of the snippet played in Advent Children Complete.
  • Thumbs up for Those Who Fight, it's just a song that orchestrates well. The version that plays in Fulfilled Desire is phenomenal.
  • Underneath the Rotting Pizza should similarly be a bit more industrial.
  • I agree with Tets on Still More Fighting, needs a lot more oomph.
  • Holding My Thoughts in My Heart is great.
  • As you say, On That Day, 5 Years Ago is pretty excellent.
  • I also agree with Tets that JENOVA does better as an electronic song than an orchestrated one.
  • I was prepared to dislike Judgement Day because orchestrations so often lack the powerful percussion needed for this song. However, this was a solid attempt, and did about as good a job capturing the feel as could be expected. (Could still use a bit more drums though, for my tastes)
  • You Can Hear the Cry of the Planet is good, but again, I think the intro would be better served with the more unsettling synth sound.

Obviously this guy was specifically making an "orchestral" album, so I understand why there isn't more electronica/rock where appropriate, but in terms what I would like the tracks to sound like in the remake, those are my opinions.
 
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Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Yeah, on listening to the later tracks I do miss the synthynessness where appropriate, but other than that it's spot on.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Interestingly, I expected Birth of a God to have the same problem, but it's actually really good. Just enough synth and guitar to complement the orchestration and capture the feeling necessary. It might be my favorite one on the list.
 

Lex

Administrator
This is the only time I've ever heard a proper orchestral arrangement of a VII song not by SE and thought "yes, that's it":



Every other fan made arrangement I've ever heard (including the OP's) has had the same problem: sounding like it came from a program that isn't capable of a bass function. They all lack bass.
 

hian

Purist
This rendition of Wutai is also pretty bad ass, and has lots of bass =P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDLUdo3zgIk

Generally though, the thing about bass is that it's hard to get right without damaging the dynamics of the track and becoming over-bearing/drowning out the rest, and it can often and quite easily be corrected for using an equalizer.

I can take any of the tracks I posted in the OP, run them through cubase or FLstudio, add a parametric EQ and correct for the low bass with relative ease. Going the other way around though with a track that has too much bass trying to bring out the rest of the instruments, is much harder and makes for a much less pleasant sound in the end.
This really is an issue that's more about mixing than anything else, and the primary reason I posted this particular artists is for his arrangement more than anything else.

If there is one thing that usually bothers me about remixes/covers of FFVII is how they either go over-board with only a selection of the elements, like rock, electronica or orchestra, when the original soundtrack struck a balance between all three.
In this I find that this artists has the best consistent result, even if I agree that the mixing leaves a lot to be desired at times.

One thing I don't want for this soundtrack is to go overboard on the rock and electronica for the battle theme, and then go all John Williams on everything else like the SE orchestra CDs.
 

Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
That's impressive work, although I have a few issues here and there. My favorite one was Holding My Thoughts in My Heart.
I also agree with Lex, and by the way this version of Forested Temple was pretty awesome.
IMO the versions of Pontus Hultgren still have an orchestral bias, and in my view that's been detrimental to tracks such as Still More Fighting or the Birth of a God, where I would prefer more drums (hell you could even go at it with double-pedal) and a more aggressive style.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
As long as the Remake doesn't have stupid songs like "Why"(I haven't listened to the song itself, but I don't plan to. I prefer "Redemption") or anything cringe-worthy as that...I'll be happy.

I think, since the guy who did the original score in the OG isn't going to compose in the Remake, it'll be a little bit probably like FFXV...which it's score will be a somewhat remake of the old 1960's song "Stand By Me".
 

Riruka

Rookie Adventurer
Oh, hey, some other people who have listened to Pontus Hultgren! I discovered those on YouTube a little while ago and my jaw dropped. Far and away the best orchestral fan-remixes I've heard. I prefer them to most of the OCRemixes tbh.

Whatever they decide to do in the remake, I'm hoping they don't change the original tracks too much. Keep the orchestral stuff orchestral and keep the rock stuff as rock. One of the best things about the FFVII soundtrack is that is IS varied in terms of style and instrumentation. Making everything orchestral would diminish that variety imo.
 

Diamonddark

SEPINHORF LIVES!
AKA
Rich
Best one from that lot is On That Day 5 Years Ago but for me they sound too 'live'....If we were watching a film it would be perfect.
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
Since Uematsu isn't on board, I'm hoping we'll see orchestrations as faithful to the OST as possible, bringing in real instruments to replace the sample tracks but keeping the synths right where they were. Preferably the exact synths they used in the OST (that buzzing synth that carries J-E-N-O-V-A is irreplaceable...!)

My nightmare would be getting an all-new soundtrack from an ambitious composer, one that comes off sounding like FFX, XII, or (god) XIII. Fine composition-styles in their own games, but clashing horribly with VII's more somber, measured atmosphere. If an ambitious composer *must* add their own creative spark, I hope it tastefully augments OST melodies. A best case scenario for me in this case would be long, ambient denouements after the central melodies have been given a chance to shine, think "Far Horizons" or most any other track from Skyrim, or for a more appropriate example, the last third of "Final Fantasy VII Main Theme."
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I'd be surprised if Uematsu himself would keep the synths from the OST. Him not being involved could possibly lead to fewer changes. But I don't really know what they'll do...
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
I'd be surprised if Uematsu himself would keep the synths from the OST. Him not being involved could possibly lead to fewer changes. But I don't really know what they'll do...

Haha good point. Advent Children's "Those Who Fight" anyone?
 

hian

Purist
A complete orchestral OST would be horrible to my mind. FFVII isn't high fantasy, and so I think the soundtrack should reflect the "modern-punk" style of the game - which would entail modern instruments, modern percussion, synths and electrical instruments on top of standard orchestral instruments.

That being said, games like Dissidia, G-Bike and CC have featured modern non-orchestral editions of FFVII tracks, and so I think that's what we're looking at, with slight deviation in arrangement to fit the new cut-scenes and cinematography of the game.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I'd be surprised if Uematsu himself would keep the synths from the OST. Him not being involved could possibly lead to fewer changes. But I don't really know what they'll do...

Haha good point. Advent Children's "Those Who Fight" anyone?

Do you mean the pianoy version or the nu metal version? I mean, both of them were fucking shit in my opinion. The original isn't even one of my favourites from the OST (possibly because of having to hear it over and over) but yeah, it didn't suit either of those styles.
 

hian

Purist
I thought both versions were fine for the medium (that is to say, that specific movie) - it would be horrible to have either as the standard battle theme in a game though, since they're more novelty pieces than anything else, and will start to grate pretty quickly when they're repeated ad nauseum like a battle theme in a game is bound to be.

But who knows?
I mean, with the removal of transitional, command based battles, how much of the flow of the music will remain the same?
Will there still be a victory theme after every battle when there might not be a clear beginning and end of battles to begin with?
Since the screen won't change upon encounters, they'll probably have field themes and battle themes cross-fade like in FFXV or FFXII, and so they'll probably make arrangement with that in mind.
Perhaps we'll only get the iconic FFVII victory theme upon defeating bosses or leveling up?
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Yeah, some songs lend themselves to orchestration, others don't. As long as they acknowledge that, I think it'll be okay. Similarly, some tracks will be fine with being rock-ified (Those Who Fight Further, for instance), but some should stay that industrial/techno-feel, and those are the tracks that I think are at the biggest risk. Simply because I haven't heard much of that type of music from Square in awhile.

Kaz Toyama's orchestrations have been great, the orchestrated Those Who Fight in Crisis Core's credits sounds fantastic, and it's actually the battle theme for my modded PC FF7 and works great. But Mako Reactor needs to sound industrial and I've heard few takes on that song from any source that really captured the feel.
 

Wolf_

Pro Adventurer
Not going to happen, but I'd love an option to pick between the full fat songs and the piano versions.
 
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