World of Final Fantasy's Remake Compilation Hints

[X-SOLDIER]

Spoilers for World of FF, obviously


World of FF has 4 FFVII Summons:
• Cloud
• Tifa
• Sephiroth
• Shelke



It's that last one that really threw me for a loop (click to see a bunch about her presence in the DoC Research Thread). I don't think that ANYONE was expecting SE to openly acknowledge the Dirge of Cerberus characters again – especially given that that game ended on an unresolved cliffhanger for the Compilation. I especially don't think that we'd expected to see any DoC Characters in a way that puts them alongside the main 3 like that in a way that openly grabs people's attention. It'd be one thing if her presence was a small background cameo appearance, but it's not. She's an integral character who's featured quite prominently.

What's especially interesting is that this isn't just happening in a vacuum – World of Final Fantasy was announced just before the Remake, which makes me think that it's a pretty clear indication of what scope that the remake is going to be encompassing based on the fact that they're openly reminding their core Final Fantasy fanbase about her and DoC at all.

I think, for all intents and purposes, this is an early clue that Deepground is VERY MUCH going to be a part of the Remake that's taken into consideration. Whether or not we see/visit it in any way (since it oughta still be all locked down at the time), or if it's just there for lore and background stuff isn't clear, but I don't think that we'd've seen Shelke if it wasn't meant to take some degree of active part in how some of the story is built and something we may eventually get a look at down the line.

All-in-all, I think that it's made one thing pretty clear – the content from The Compilation is very much alive and active, and is almost certainly being actively woven in to the Remake.




X

 

[Shademp]

The inclusion of Shelke raises the slightest hope in my mind that someday we might at least see an HD release of Dirge of Cerberus. I'm indifferent as to whether or not Deepground gets a mention in the FFVII Remake, but I am very much interested in seeing Dirge of Cerberus re-released and acknowledged (and perhaps re-worked) when new life is given to the FFVII franchise with the remake.

There is more content from the DCFFVII Multiplayer that I'd like to see to brought back and many general fixes Square could make in a Dirge of Cerberus re-release.

 

[Tetsujin]

Because what everyone really wanted from a remake is to acknowledge the worst part of compilation lore I'm sure

 

[Tashasaurous]

I've been saying and/or thinking about this for months ever since they announced Shelke into World of Final Fantasy(heck, even her voice actress returned) as a clue that the Compilation is showing signs of making an appearence again.

And like you said, Dirge of Cerberus did end in a cliff-hanger that needs to be solved, and Deepground is another important part of the storyline, especially with Hojo, Heidegger, Scarlet and the dead President plotting it without even Rufus, Reeve and my theory, even the Turks knowing about this.

If they're going to use content from the Compilation into the Remake, putting in the most important parts from the other games(or movie in Advent Children's case) to follow the storyline that would lead into the sequels and explain things that still leaves questions in the previous games.

For example: What happened to Cissnei since Before Crisis was never released outside Japan? The Turks would mention the difference compared to the previous AVALANCHE who nearly destroyed the world, and the AVALANCHE that are attempting to save it from Sephiroth and that two have no record connections. Heck, in Crisis Core in one of the battle cut-scenes, BC's AVALANCHE was mentioned by Tseng when Zack showed him the graves of the two dead SOLDIERs.

Hojo's last minute backup plan to save himself into the Network after he was fatally wounded by Cloud and Vincent who both play important roles to that evil scientest. Thus he remembered Deepground.

And the evacuation of Midgar which would possibly introduce Denzel and see the survival of Rufus and the brief return of the former Turks. Thus leads to Advent Children and the Case of ShinRa.

These are the important contents Square should focus on if they're going to use Compilation's content for the remake.

Probably won't happen, but it's nice to talk about it.

 

[Shademp]

Because what everyone really wanted from a remake is to acknowledge the worst part of compilation lore I'm sure

I'm happy you say "worst part of compilation lore", because the worst title in the Compilation goes to Before Crisis.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Because what everyone really wanted from a remake is to acknowledge the worst part of compilation lore I'm sure

I'm happy you say "worst part of compilation lore", because the worst title in the Compilation goes to Before Crisis.

When you guys say that Before Crisis is the worst title, it wouldn't be because the Turks are the Protagonists and the previous AVALANCHE are the antagonists, would it?

If that's the case, then what's wrong with some bad guys having good hearts, just not knowing the wrong path they chose and have them save the world because they knew they were doing the right thing?

If that's not the case, then it is because of the soundtrack or the storyline? The soundtrack, I can understand, and while the storyline is a bit edgy, I still love it and I still would love to see a remake of this game released outside of Japan(I so want to play as Reno in his special episode).

 

[Cthulhu]

Terrorists or freedom fighters, protagonists or antagonists is only a matter of perspective

 

[Shademp]

@Tash

I have watched all available recordings of Before Crisis footage and I found it to be the most dreadfully boring piece of FFVII material that I have ever watched. A remake might do the title justice, but as it currently exists/existed on the mobile phones of the time? It is a dull experience both for the eyes and the ears.

 

[Tashasaurous]

@Tash

I have watched all available recordings of Before Crisis footage and I found it to be the most dreadfully boring piece of FFVII material that I have ever watched. A remake might do the title justice, but as it currently exists/existed on the mobile phones of the time? It is a dull experience both for the eyes and the ears.

Well, you might have found it boring, but it's one of the most successful mobile games in 2004. Half of people loved it and half of people didn't like it, but it was still successful and I loved it. The only reason why it wasn't released outside Japan because mobiles in other parts of the world of the world couldn't handle the game itself.

Just wish there were recording gameplays of Reno and Legend. All I could find for both of them was in script format. With Tseng, it's the opposite.

 

[Lex]

It's immensely boring. It was only ever released in Japan and it was "one of the most successful mobile games in 2004" because it was one of the most high-tech mobile games ever released. Please remember this was on a bloody flip-phone, and that the mobile game "market" was pretty much non-existent until Apple released the first iPhone in 2007. I.e. it wasn't really competing against anything.

In the episodic way it was released and for its time it totally made sense. The materia creation from photos was a neat concept (if incredibly flawed). The second the first smartphone came out and apps were a thing, it was an instant relic. I've fallen asleep twice trying to watch a playthrough on YouTube. The only way it's "good" is that it was tailor made for those phones, tailor made for that incredibly short window of time and therefore suited to the lightweight episodic format. As a full game I genuinely don't think I'd be able to get to the end of it, and I say this as a person who is obsessive as hell about finishing things I start.

Y'know, unless this song on repeat for countless hours is your thing:

As an actual game, it's fucking awful. If they tried to release this on any platform today without a total overhaul it would get shredded by everyone.

 

[Tashasaurous]

It's immensely boring. It was only ever released in Japan and it was "one of the most successful mobile games in 2004" because it was one of the most high-tech mobile games ever released. Please remember this was on a bloody flip-phone, and that the mobile game "market" was pretty much non-existent until Apple released the first iPhone in 2007. I.e. it wasn't really competing against anything.

Just because you guys thought it's boring doesn't mean that I have to think that. Besides, I love flip-phones and I still have one myself. Yes I know I'll have to get used to those touch-screen phones which I hate, but for the time being, my flip-phone still works and I've had it since last year for my birthday.

In the episodic way it was released and for its time it totally made sense. The materia creation from photos was a neat concept (if incredibly flawed). The second the first smartphone came out and apps were a thing, it was an instant relic. I've fallen asleep twice trying to watch a playthrough on YouTube. The only way it's "good" is that it was tailor made for those phones, tailor made for that incredibly short window of time and therefore suited to the lightweight episodic format. As a full game I genuinely don't think I'd be able to get to the end of it, and I say this as a person who is obsessive as hell about finishing things I start.

Kingdom Hearts Coded was done the same way and most people thought that was boring...and look where it led-two remakes in a row, and I've never fallen asleep through watching boring things even if I tried. Only did that once as a child and that was on a late night during Christmas Eve. Besides, they had to release it that way was because downloading a full game onto a mobile would just crash it instantly.

Y'know, unless this song on repeat for countless hours is your thing:

That's one thing I can at least agree on-too much rock guitar music. I prefer the soundtracks from Advent Children(Complete), Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core and whenever I watch the gameplay, I imagine those playing instead of it's actual soundtrack.

As an actual game, it's fucking awful. If they tried to release this on any platform today without a total overhaul it would get shredded by everyone.

Well, if and that's a very big IF, they're gonna do this, then they'll have to remake Before Crisis because 1), Dirge of Cerberus is an imporant key with Shelke and 2), Azul's origins is also in Before Crisis. Shalua's too, in fact.

 

[ForceStealer]

Also, you know, the story is awful. Lots of people like to take shots at the Compilation's story. But Before Crisis' plot is another level of bad, the writers seemingly without even cursory knowledge of the original game. Avalanche wants to take control of Junon to shoot Midgar with the cannon? Midgar is well north and well behind Junon. How exactly would they have done this?

FF7 makes no small point about Red believing he is the last of his race. Before Crisis doesn't care, there's not only another one running around, Nanaki is fully aware of her existence and is indeed to be her mate! Whoops! (Justifications that he assumes she's dead are stupid. Why would he think that?)

While I actually like the dramatic irony of the original Avalanche actually being the ones who bombed the Corel Reactor, Barret was SO involved that it makes him a colossal idiot to blame Shinra a couple years later.

Vincent slept for 30 years. Oh, except that one time he chatted up some Turk.

And many, many more. Tres is better at enumerating them than I. Before Crisis may be boring, but that's not why everyone hopes it fades into nothingness. It's an awful entry to the Compilation.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Also, you know, the story is awful. Lots of people like to take shots at the Compilation's story. But Before Crisis' plot is another level of bad, the writers seemingly without even cursory knowledge of the original game. Avalanche wants to take control of Junon to shoot Midgar with the cannon? Midgar is well north and well behind Junon. How exactly would they have done this?

Why do I get the feeling that everyone's trying to force me to hate Before Crisis when I don't want to hate it?

FF7 makes no small point about Red believing he is the last of his race. Before Crisis doesn't care, there's not only another one running around, Nanaki is fully aware of her existence and is indeed to be her mate! Whoops! (Justifications that he assumes she's dead are stupid. Why would he think that?)

I think they'll fix that problem in the Remake, because remember, in the epilogue of the original game, Nanaki has two cubs of his own. Now how would you explain that he's the last of his kind of he has two cubs with him? Besides, he's a male and male's don't give birth.

While I actually like the dramatic irony of the original Avalanche actually being the ones who bombed the Corel Reactor, Barret was SO involved that it makes him a colossal idiot to blame Shinra a couple years later.

He was unaware and besides, ShinRa killed the citizens of Corel to place easy blame instead of going after AVALANCHE who are the true blame for this, because if they did the alternate route, that would hurt their reputation.

Vincent slept for 30 years. Oh, except that one time he chatted up some Turk.

Vincent didn't talk a lot about his past to anyone. Besides, that meeting was probably in the of his mind since his thoughts were mostly onto Lurecia, Sephiroth and killing Hojo.

And many, many more. Tres is better at enumerating them than I. Before Crisis may be boring, but that's not why everyone hopes it fades into nothingness. It's an awful entry to the Compilation.

Not everyone hopes it disappears. I hope for it be mentioned at least and so do some other people I've come across. The story in and on itself is emotional. If there was going to be a remake, certain characters of the Turks should be played in important chapters. Like for example, Cissnei allowing Zack and Cloud to escape and she's from Before Crisis as well.

 

[Clement Rage]

Parts of BC were out and out brilliant, it was a great game for its time. And that whole thing about taking photos for materia is a fantastic idea. Other parts weren't quite as good. I didn't like some of the story, but for a mobile phone game, it's phenomenal.

I feel your pain, Tasha, because I'm a rare fan of Dirge, I think it deserves more credit than it gets.

Re Barret, he never did blame Shinra for the reactor explosion, he blamed them for the village massacre that came after.

Anyway, on topic:

I'm cautious about over acknowledging things in the remake, unless maybe they're DLC. Occasional nods will be fine, but overdoing it can damage the storyline. ie, actually visiting Deepground or meeting Shelke will make no sense whatsoever, but NPC dialogue about mysteriously missing people will be fine. Trying to reference everything just damages the story, it has to be done in a way that makes sense.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Parts of BC were out and out brilliant, it was a great game for its time. And that whole thing about taking photos for materia is a fantastic idea. Other parts weren't quite as good. I didn't like some of the story, but for a mobile phone game, it's phenomenal.

I feel your pain, Tasha, because I'm a rare fan of Dirge, I think it deserves more credit than it gets.

Clement, thanks so much for understanding. I'm glad I'm not only one who likes BC and I do admit, I didn't like some parts of the story, but I still loved it none the less.

Barret, he never did blame Shinra for the reactor explosion, he blamed them for the village massacre that came after.

I know, and Barret was unaware of what really happened. I was just pointing out that killing the people of the village was easier for them to protect their reputation since word would go out if they allowed the villagers start complaining about how the Mako Reactors didn't work as they hoped, since they would think it was faulty and not realising that it was AVALANCHE that caused the explosion.

Anyway, on topic:

I'm cautious about over acknowledging things in the remake, unless maybe they're DLC. Occasional nods will be fine, but overdoing it can damage the storyline. ie, actually visiting Deepground or meeting Shelke will make no sense whatsoever, but NPC dialogue about mysteriously missing people will be fine. Trying to reference everything just damages the story, it has to be done in a way that makes sense.

Yeah, NPC dialogue would do. I'm thinking a scene where Scarlet and Heidegger would discuss about how the late President's plans for Deepground were in jeapody and possibly decided not to tell Rufus or the Turks about this since they are normal mortal people.

And Hojo, in his dying breath, recalled Deepground and just after Cloud, Vincent and their friends left, thinking he's dead, he did what he did as shown in the opening of Dirge, which had Vincent go up to try and finish the job.

 

[ForceStealer]

Why do I get the feeling that everyone's trying to force me to hate Before Crisis when I don't want to hate it?

You're the one that asked why we don't like it. Insinuating that we just had a problem with the Turks being the main characters.

I think they'll fix that problem in the Remake, because remember, in the epilogue of the original game, Nanaki has two cubs of his own. Now how would you explain that he's the last of his kind of he has two cubs with him? Besides, he's a male and male's don't give birth.

Yes, we obviously know he wasn't actually the last of his kind. The point was that Nanaki thought he was.

Not everyone hopes it disappears. I hope for it be mentioned at least and so do some other people I've come across. The story in and on itself is emotional. If there was going to be a remake, certain characters of the Turks should be played in important chapters. Like for example, Cissnei allowing Zack and Cloud to escape and she's from Before Crisis as well.

Crisis Core addressed her existence plenty well enough without all of the baggage that BC brings with it. But CC acknowledges BC in other ways too anyway (Essai and Sebastian). So any further entries could easily cherry-pick the good bits and dump the rest since so few people know of its existence anyway.

 

[Tashasaurous]

You're the one that asked why we don't like it. Insinuating that we just had a problem with the Turks being the main characters.

Well it's just the way how you keep saying how you guys don't like makes me feel like you don't want me to love it.

Yes, we obviously know he wasn't actually the last of his kind. The point was that Nanaki thought he was.

Well, they might change the dialogue a bit in the Remake.

Crisis Core addressed her existence plenty well enough without all of the baggage that BC brings with it. But CC acknowledges BC in other ways too anyway (Essai and Sebastion). So any further entries could easily cherry-pick the good bits and dump the rest since so few people know of its existence anyway.

There's also a scene where Zack first meets Reno and Rude, because that scene is exactly the same as in the Episode of Reno when they and Tseng meet up with Zack, because that scene is a crossover between both games.

 

[Theozilla]

Yes, we obviously know he wasn't actually the last of his kind. The point was that Nanaki thought he was.

Well, they might change the dialogue a bit in the Remake.

Also in fiction in general when characters describe themselves as being "last of their kind" it's not necessarily a statement the audience is meant to be taken super literally. Like I think it's reasonable/understandable for Nanaki to refer/view himself as being the last of his kind even if you take him being aware of Deneh's existence into account, since he's still the last male of his species (and having 1 male and female only equals to one breeding pair).

Anyways the inclusion of Shelke in World of Final Fantasy is interesting, I'm excited to see how the greater Compilation mythos can/will be molded into the Remake.

 

[Flare]

I've not played the game yet but I did hear of Shelke's inclusion. I didn't think much of it but, that's a pretty good hypothesis, X. Fascinating to think of. I'm hopeful that if they include the framework of the compilation, they'd put it together more smoothly and much better than before.
Makes me excited, to be honest.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Because what everyone really wanted from a remake is to acknowledge the worst part of compilation lore I'm sure

Deepground is the Vegnagun of FF7.

That said, I liked some of the story elements of DoC and I think the gameplay wasn't too terrible. If I had to go for the least enjoyable element of the Compilation it would be Advent Children. But yeah at least AC's story was plausible within the realm of FF7.

Deepground was basically "oh yeah there was this super cool Infinity +1 Army hiding beneath Shinra that we never told you about... why? You never asked."

 

[Shademp]

Deepground is the Vegnagun of FF7.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was of the impression that Vegnagun (as a concept) in FFX-2 has more precedence/setup in FFX than Deepground ever had in FFVII.

I am thinking of this scene from FFX, watch from 9:15 - 9:47.

Yuna: More than a thousand years ago, mankind waged war using Machina to kill.

Wakka: They kept building more and more powerful Machina.

Lulu: They made weapons so powerful, it was thought they could destroy the entire world.​

When I played FFX-2 and the topic of old Machina and Vegnagun came up, I thought back to the aforementioned scene from FFX as being the justified setup.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Thematically, yes. Though it still borders on retcon territory. Though I'll agree nothing comes close to as far out of left field as Deepground was.

Edit: Oh and as far as the music goes I think Dirge of Cerberus had a phenomenal soundtrack. Yeah it was no FF7 soundtrack - few things are - but some standout tracks such as Silent Edge and Calm Before the Storm stand out as great ones.

Edit 2: Vis a vis the BC soundtrack, I only reviewed two tracks from it when I did my compilation review and they were the only two tracks worth mentioning and they were remastered versions.

 

[Shademp]

Edit 2: Vis a vis the BC soundtrack, I only reviewed two tracks from it when I did my compilation review and they were the only two tracks worth mentioning and they were remastered versions.

The CD versions of the Before Crisis tracks can be quite decent, some have even grown on me. I like me some "Desperate Crisis" which was used for the Zirconiade battle. Pity the soundtrack was butchered on the mobile phones and that you'd be subjugated to the same monotone one or two tracks for hours upon hours, chapter after chapter.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

You're the one that asked why we don't like it. Insinuating that we just had a problem with the Turks being the main characters.

Well it's just the way how you keep saying how you guys don't like makes me feel like you don't want me to love it.

Let me just address this on its own:

Just because there are folks pointing out the weaknesses of the title and how it doesn't stand up to various things, doesn't mean that you have to change that they're not things that bother you. These criticisms of the game are not personally directed to you. They're everyone's individual opinions, so they're not intended to either agree or disagree with your viewpoints. They simply are what they are when discussing the miscellaneous weaknesses of the individual Compilation titles – which this is because it looks like Deepground is going to be canon in the Remake.




X

 

[Tetsujin]

Also, I personally think this is less a hint of anything related to the remake but rather the director of WoFF wanting to include one of "his" characters since Hiroki Chiba was also the writer of Dirge of Cerberus.