Zack's journey to Midgar

[Danseru-kun]

THIS THREAD MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T PLAYED CC

I just wondered if any of us here have other thoughts on Zack's (and Cloud's) travel from Nibelheim to Midgar. And I've always wanted to make this speculation thread.

Maybe my memory of some parts of Crisis Core is now rusty but as far as I know, he went to Gongaga to check out his parents. But when I saw the map I realized that going there actually made his trip a lot longer (though he met Hollander and learned important stuff in there.)

I think one reason why Zack spent time painstakingly going to Banora (which is in Mideel right?) is because he still didn't know that it had been four years. Receiving Aerith's last letter is what made him really desperate to return to Midgar.

Assuming that he knew it was four years, do you think he would have crossed the ocean (if he can) to return to Midgar quickly or he would still go to Gongaga and confront Genesis in Banora?
How long did his bike last?
Where does the bridge/highway(where his hair was eaten) lead to?
Also, any thoughts on how he took care of Cloud? How he gets food and shelter?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

When trying to portray the FFVII world in a more realistic, less game-y way, say for fanfiction, I like to imagine that there are bounties on the various monsters you fight and kill; the gil you receive is your bounty payment, a bit like the system in FFXII where in order to make gil you have to sell the items enemies drop or you steal. So I imagine Zack raised money by killing monsters along the way. He was roaming around the world for a long time - months - before he was finally killed. I think he first spent a long time in hiding, trying to cure Cloud, and then when that proved hopeless went home to see his parents and bumped into Genesis. I think he went to Banora for answers and because he hoped Genesis might hold some clue towards helping Cloud.

In real life, I think the first thing he would have done would be to steal them both some civvies and ditch the tell-tale SOLDIER uniforms. Zack's not the sharpest knife in the drawer but he's not a complete idiot either.

The bridge spans the river betwen Nibelheim and Cosmo Canyon; there's a sign on the bridge which tells you how far it is inb either direction, and from which you can work out the dimensions of their entire world should you be so inclined (it's tiny).

He must have taken a ferry from Gongaga to Mideel. Maybe he couldn't get his bike through the Zolom marshes and traded it for a couple of chocobos?

Curing Cloud was more important than seeing Aerith, because Cloud looked like he might be dying and Aerith... wasn't.

 

[ForceStealer]

Maybe my memory of some parts of Crisis Core is now rusty but as far as I know, he went to Gongaga to check out his parents. But when I saw the map I realized that going there actually made his trip a lot longer (though he met Hollander and learned important stuff in there.)

How does going to Gongaga make his trip longer? That's the direction you have to go from Nibelheim to get to Midgar unless you have a way to go over the mountains, which I don't think he did.

I did not know/remember that Banora was in Mideel...interesting. Well that's DEFINITELY out of his way, but like you said, he wasn't really heading for Midgar until he got Aerith's letter, he was just in hiding/going after Genesis until then.

When trying to portray the FFVII world in a more realistic, less game-y way, say for fanfiction, I like to imagine that there are bounties on the various monsters you fight and kill; the gil you receive is your bounty payment, a bit like the system in FFXII where in order to make gil you have to sell the items enemies drop or you steal.

I never saw it as a bounty in XII and XIII, but rather exactly what it looks like, you take parts from the monsters like tusks or skins or components from robotic enemies and sell them for gil. I always figured that's what you're doing in ever RPG, but most jsut cut out the middle man to skip that rather boring step, which I kinda prefer less realistic though it may be.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I never saw it as a bounty in XII and XIII, but rather exactly what it looks like, you take parts from the monsters like tusks or skins or components from robotic enemies and sell them for gil. I always figured that's what you're doing in ever RPG, but most jsut cut out the middle man to skip that rather boring step, which I kinda prefer less realistic though it may be.

It could work like that. But I also (in my imagination) pictured it as being like the bounty paid on wolves or coyotes - 'vermin' that people want to exterminate. I can easily imagine professional 'monster exterminators' working in Midgar like pest control officers.

 

[Danseru-kun]

How does going to Gongaga make his trip longer? That's the direction you have to go from Nibelheim to get to Midgar unless you have a way to go over the mountains, which I don't think he did.

I did not know/remember that Banora was in Mideel...interesting. Well that's DEFINITELY out of his way, but like you said, he wasn't really heading for Midgar until he got Aerith's letter, he was just in hiding/going after Genesis until then.

Well the first map I saw didn't have mountains. I haven't played FFVII so I wouldn't know much but judging from the map he can go to Gold Saucer and enter the other continent through the Junon Area. Or it can be Gold Saucer area-> Corel Area -> Midgar Area. If this is not practical just tell me

The wiki says that Banora is in Mideel because of the Lifestream close to the surface.

Anyway, this idea just came to me: what if Zack had a bounty placed on him? That would make his trip a lot more hellish. Just imagine him not being able to lodge at towns or buy stuff that easily.

And also, say Zack was able to get to Midgar, will he be able to "escape" Shinra? It just came to me that even if he did reach Midgar, he'll just be gunned down nonetheless especially that the city was the Shinra headquarters. I don't think that arriving in Midgar and being a mercenary will change anything, and he'll still be constantly under the threat of being killed. I also don't think he can work things out with Aerith anymore because of his fugitive status. (This assumes that the whole plot of the OG didn't happen yet and Shinra is business as usual.)This makes joining/working for AVALANCHE a good choice for him to survive.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I doubt if a bounty were placed on him. Shin-Ra was trying to cover up what happened with Zack and Nibelheim, so it would be unwise to have a bounty floating around for him when he had been publically announced as killed in action.

As for going to Midgar, in a way it's a really stupid idea. And in another way, it makes sense.

It's stupid because he was marching straight into the lion's den. It makes sense because the place is big and there's so much going on that he could start a new life and get lost in the slums.

Of course, Crisis Core made his reason for going back to Midgar all about Aerith, when the original game made it seem more about the reasons I brought up.

 

[Roger]

They were trying to cover up Nibelheim yet Zangan saw no other recourse then to go all the way Midgar to treat Tifa's injuries too, for Cloud's Mako Poisoning, I'd definitely say there'd be no other option then to go Midgar. In the OG, I mean.

 

[Lex]

Well the first map I saw didn't have mountains. I haven't played FFVII so I wouldn't know much but judging from the map he can go to Gold Saucer and enter the other continent through the Junon Area. Or it can be Gold Saucer area-> Corel Area -> Midgar Area. If this is not practical just tell me

Yeah from Nibelheim, you have to travel southeast due to the mountains, cross the river to Cosmo Canyon area, then pass Gongaga, then cross another river to the Gold Saucer/ Corel Prison desert, then Costa Del Sol.

Then I'm assuming they either had a boat or stowed away in the ferry to Junon... that takes them to the Midgar continent, though who knows if they went through the Mythril Cave or whatever.

As the world appeared in the original game, that's the route they would have to take, so Gongaga isn't out the way.

EDIT: This map shows it best.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Is it possible to go the other way around?

Wutai area-> Chocobo Farm -> Midgar

And how big was the FFVII world? Did they give us an idea of it's size relative to ours?

 

[Vendel]

Is it possible to go the other way around?

Wutai area-> Chocobo Farm -> Midgar

What?! And fall off the edge of the earth?

 

[Danseru-kun]

THE WORLD IS FLAT!?

∑(O_O&#65307

 

[ForceStealer]

Well sure if you have a plane or a boat. But he didn't have either of those things. And you probably have a much better chance of finding a boat to stow away on in Junon then in Rocket Town.

Of course, Crisis Core made his reason for going back to Midgar all about Aerith, when the original game made it seem more about the reasons I brought up.

Smeh, it's mainly a dumb idea. He could hideout and start a new life just about anywhere. And the original game does make mention of the fact that he has a place to go in Midgar so nyah.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

When calculating whatever route that Zack took, don't forget to include the trip to Banora. I guess he would have had to get a boat at Costa del Sol that would take him to the Mideel continent, but where exactly he went immediately after Banora is anyone's guess.

Maybe from Mideel to Junon, and then he had to ditch the bike outside the Mythril Cave, or at the marsh if he got it through the cave.

I still can't figure out what kind of logic they're using to plot out the geography. Cloud can travel to the Forgotten Capital on Fenrir and back in about half a day's time (and this is after the landscape had been altered and roads fucked around with because of the Lifestream's eruption), but it takes Zack months to make his trip, even though he was given a motorcycle from Cissnei shortly after his escape.

If Deepground didn't prove it, then this should: SE sucks at plotting scale.

 

[ForceStealer]

You just haven't seen Fenrir transform into plane mode.

 

[AvecAloes]

When calculating whatever route that Zack took, don't forget to include the trip to Banora. I guess he would have had to get a boat at Costa del Sol that would take him to the Mideel continent, but where exactly he went immediately after Banora is anyone's guess.

Maybe from Mideel to Junon, and then he had to ditch the bike outside the Mythril Cave, or at the marsh if he got it through the cave.

I still can't figure out what kind of logic they're using to plot out the geography. Cloud can travel to the Forgotten Capital on Fenrir and back in about half a day's time (and this is after the landscape had been altered and roads fucked around with because of the Lifestream's eruption), but it takes Zack months to make his trip, even though he was given a motorcycle from Cissnei shortly after his escape.

If Deepground didn't prove it, then this should: SE sucks at plotting scale.

As for scale, yeah, it really doesn't make sense how quickly (or even how he was able to get there at all on a bike) Cloud was able to get to the Northern Continent, but I guess Zach's slowness could be at least somewhat explained by the fact that he is dragging Cloud around. Yes, Cissnei gave him a bike, but how easy would it have been for Zach to keep Cloud on the bike? It must have been exhausting trying to make sure he didn't just slip off all the time, and he wasn't really in tip top shape after having been in a test tube for 4 years. Speaking of, there's also that. Zach was probably also more easily tuckered out, which would probably have resulted in making frequent stops.

Assuming that he knew it was four years, do you think he would have crossed the ocean (if he can) to return to Midgar quickly or he would still go to Gongaga and confront Genesis in Banora?

I think he would have still gone to Gongaga to confront Genesis. His sense of Soldier honor and protecting the world from Genesis probably would have dictated that he take care of that problem first.

 

[Tifabelle]

The bike had a sidecar where Cloud sat. Slumped in it. He was fine. Really it was dragging his butt around before the bike that was the problem.


The thing about the time for travel is one of those overlooked aspects. Arguably you could say that since Zack was on the run some of his time could have been spent fighting or hiding. I really just think Cloud's ability to move quickly over distance was one of those things they either overlooked or ignored.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well the bike Cissnei gave him had a sidecar. He probably didn't use that same bike the whole way. There's the issue of fuel, for one thing, there must have been a reason he hitched a ride in that truck. And Last Order's bike didn't have a sidecar, though I know LO isn't "canon" per se.

Either way, there's no question that lugging Cloud around slowed him down. Or that he likely would have made it to destination were he not babysitting him. But you're right that Zack's travel time is probably more realistic for world-crossing than AVALANCHE's is.

 

[AvecAloes]

I did forget that the bike had a side car, actually, although that doesn't really change my overall opinion of why it took him so damn long to get anywhere.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well the bike Cissnei gave him had a sidecar. He probably didn't use that same bike the whole way. There's the issue of fuel, for one thing, there must have been a reason he hitched a ride in that truck. And Last Order's bike didn't have a sidecar, though I know LO isn't "canon" per se.

I don't think fuel was really an issue. Zack used the bike all the way from outside Nibelheim to the Mideel continent, and kept using it when he was done in Banora. He must have stopped for fuel at some point. Obstacles in the terrain seem a more likely reason for losing the bike.

And don't even get me started on Last Order's depiction of events. It had Zack make the trip from Nibelheim to just outside Midgar -- carrying a comatose Cloud on a bike lacking a sidecar -- in the space of a single night. =P

If anything, Last Order's depiction is most consistent with travel times in AC/C, though it's equally ridiculous.

 

[ForceStealer]

I always thought Last Order was starting when they were already on the Midgar continet...?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I remembered the time wrong. Seems it was 72 hours before the opening that they escaped (I was thinking seven), so while it wasn't a single night, it wasn't much more than that either.

As for where it began, I guess they could already be on the Midgar continent, yeah.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm trying to remember why I assumed that, and I thinks its because how easily Rude deduces that they're headed for Midgar. The little map on his phone looks like they're rather close

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Makes sense to me.

 

[Roger]

If anything, Last Order's depiction is most consistent with travel times in AC/C, though it's equally ridiculous.

Nibelheim to Midgar in the span of two days is not equally ridiculous. AC was bad but not THAT moronic.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Nibelheim to Midgar in the span of two days is not equally ridiculous. AC was bad but not THAT moronic.

Cloud went from Edge to the city of the ancients in a DAY. If anything going from Nibelheim to Midgar in two days would be less ridiculous.