Translations from the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania — For the One I Love
by Glenn, The Twilight Mexican January 24, 2010 0 comments
Again, working from specifically the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 2: Scenario guide. This post is a follow-up to the “Sources of Power in FF” article I just posted, which also included translations from the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 2: Scenario book.
Actually, this post might better be characterized as a follow-up to the “Love Triangle Debate- over” article that Ryushikaze posted a couple of days ago. That article included selected translations from the section which I am now posting a translation of in its entirety.
I think you’ll find that the ramifications for the Love Triangle Debate are even more obvious when you can read the entire page. Do enjoy.
FOR THE ONE I LOVE
Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop. Occasionally they become separated, but the two’s value to one another gives them the great strength to overcome whatever crisis may come.
III – The diligent soldier and the meek princess
The love between the soldier and princess of Sasune Castle was divided by social status; Ingus tried to supress his feelings, but Sara would not hide hers.
IV – World just for the two of us
When rescuing Rosa, Cecil frankly declares his true feelings. The two reunited, they tightly embrace for all eyes to see.
VI – Result of the chance encounter
The imperial general and the anti-empire organization member — Celes and Locke’s relation to one another is like ships passing in the night; it’s a long period before they get to communicate their feelings completely.
VII – Secret date
At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.
VII – The night before the final battle
Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.
VIII – Witch Rinoa’s knight
Just before she can be sealed due to being a witch, Squall retakes Rinoa. “I don’t care that you’re a witch” are his words to her, putting her mind at ease.
IX – For the one I must protect
Beatrix becomes the woman to whom Steiner will let no harm befall. For his homeland’s protection and for hers, Steiner brandishes his sword.
IX – Guidance on an investigation of life
Zidane left the company of his companions in front of the Iifa Tree. He survived for the sake of going back to “the place I’ll return to someday,” where the one he loves was waiting for him.
X – Macalania Spring
Yuna is betrayed by the temples she had completely believed in and had made the foundation of her life. Tidus decides to comfort her in this way.
Extra Thread
Scenes involving “love” other than romantic love
In the “FF” series, there’s not just the romantic love between men and women; there are various forms of love depicted. In “FFV,” there’s familial love between Galuf and Krile, as well as the brotherly love between Edgar and Sabin depicted in “FFVI”; and in “FFIX,” there’s an instance of love between Eiko and Mog that goes beyond race. Also, in “FFVI,” there’s the scene where Terra recovers her ability to fight and comes to understand the emotion called “love”; when talking about “love,” this is a scene that shouldn’t be left out.
During the event where Terra recovers her ability to fight, she regains her power and says “I’ll fight to protect the people I love”; she then throws herself back into battle.
No comments yet
Log in or Register
Cloud and Tifa as far as I know had some kind of orphanage set up, shortly after the great Meteor drop happened, and the Geostigma thing. Marlene and Denzel were the only prominent figures as they were more involved in the relationship between Cloud and Tifa.
As for the translations, say what you will. I have read what the other guys had to say about the most accurate people translating it and how they are having a cow just because some people are suggesting otherwise that it was also probably lost in translation. And they retaliate with saying their translations are right and they are wrong, and should get off this discussion. >.> Not exactly unbiased and having a tolerant attitude about other shippers eh. I am just saying that there are different interpretations, and the collective decision by those who support Cloud and Tifa here is that Cloud and Aerith worshippers should go die in a fire for even having the blasphemy of forming an opinion different than theirs are.
They… did… not… have an … orphanage… at… all… ever…
so… I do believe it’s YOU that needs to brush up on the Compilation entries… wow
And I have many Clerith shipping friends, I don’t want anyone to die in a fire. Please don’t assume that about everyone here 🙁
Orphanage? Really? Please PLEASE be a troll. I don’t want to believe anyone is that stupid.
As for your translation nonsense? Please state ANYTHING that backs up ANY assertion you are making.
@ Quexinos
“I have read what the other guys had to say about the most accurate people translating it and how they are having a cow just because some people are suggesting otherwise that it was also probably lost in translation. And they retaliate with saying their translations are right and they are wrong, and should get off this discussion. ”
I stated the collective decision of the fans who support Cloud and Tifa => those who argued with the other people forming strong opinions and always been told that their interpretations are all wrong. I apologize for the confusion and should have made it clearer. T^T
“During the two-year period after Meteor, Cloud worked for Tifa in a self-employed company called ‘Strife Delivery Service’, located in the new 7th Heaven built at Edge which also functions as an orphanage for children affected by the Geostigma.” Taken from the absolute anime site. Probably happened after AC ended and Dirge of Cerberus was starting, or whenever. Even the newer games they confuse me.
@ Vendel
Name calling isn’t getting you anywhere, and you haven’t provided a single coherent argument against what I said. Please try harder. :3
When will you people just let go of the translation already? I am only stating the obvious and really people should just try to understand each other over this whole deal… >.>
That sounds like crap from the DoC game booklet. Which is so blatantly wrong on several points I’m surprised anyone quotes it. Ever. If you had actually seen AC/C and/or read CoT you would know this. Or barring that if you had comprehended them.
And I understand you perfectly. And I can’t decide if I find you amusing or sad.
Well then go ahead and argue with the person who posted that and have your argument over there. :/ it’s seriously not that hard.
Understanding me perfectly which equates with a) name calling and b) spouting rabid CloTi statements/sentiments. Sure, you understood me PERFECTLY well. :/
Why would I argue with “that person over there”. If you had the basic knowledge that you pretend to have then YOU would have shot that person down.
But you didn’t because you wanted to believe it. Anything to diminish Cloud and Tifa’s family.
@ Vendel
I guess I should laugh now? >.>
What was wrong in Dirge of Cerberus? I hated that game by the way because of LOL plot twists that don’t make sense and ruins what was already set in the plot. Also, you’re contradicting yourself. You’re so adamant in protecting the “family” and just ignoring the existence/probability that the 2 of them might create an orphanage to EXTEND that family is pretty laughable. Not once in my posts did I do anything to degrade the “family”.
This has become even more amusing than I first thought… XDDDDDD
Wow can you deflect. This is about info from the DoC game booklet. Which is not a desirable source of information.
AND THEY DO NOT HAVE A FUCKING ORPHANAGE. There is absolutely zero possibility of that.
And again I do not believe your innocent act at all. Just ignore the fact that Denzel and Marlene are the only ones with C/T. Ignore the multiple mentions BY THE CHARACTERS about them being a family. Ignore the veritable glut of creator statements describing them as a family of four.
Why would anyone ignore all of that and go “hey maybe an orphanage”?
It’s crystal clear to me.
So who made the booklet not canon? YOU? ROFL. Square Enix most probably had their hand in what is written on a game booklet just as much as what they have written in the Ultimanias. However it has always been up for debate, because people can see that maybe there’s just something wrong with it.
How can you even claim with such certainty that they may not have an orphanage? If your theory about Cloud and Tifa having a loving couple just so that they may be able to lighten their burden and before fate or what have you decides to royally screw them over for their crimes, then it makes sense that they MIGHT want to have an orphanage. I am not the one denying they have a family here. You seem to be going for the impression that I am but nothing in my posts even actually say that, let alone imply that. >.> You’re shooting yourself over and over again trying to pin me down for being a rabid Clerith fan. And your CloTi powerlevels are showing WAY TOO much.
How do I know the DoC game booklet is meaningless and that C/T do not run an orphanage?
Because I have a very basic understanding of the source material.
@ Vendel
Wow. Then please explain yourself to the guys who made that booklet. I am sure they will like to hear how authoritative you are to the entire FF 7 canon. :3 They probably might be laughing behind your back, though. Don’t take it too personally. :3
I think the people that made the game booklet would be slightly surprised and amused that idiots like you think it is an authoritative source.
@ Vendel
Ohohohoho, look, the name calling again. You just have to know when you are already owned in the discussion. Also, try telling that to Squeenix, as they also are the ones who agree what or what they don’t like to put on the game manual.
Let me explain it real slow so you can understand. The DoC game booklet is not a source of canon information.
Cloud is not an EX-SOLDIER and Tifa does not run an orphanage.
It’s so painfully clear I honestly don’t know how anyone could defend it. Then again you probably have never seen it. I mean you are not familiar with the actual source material. Why should this be any different?
@ Vendel
ROFLMAO!!! OMG! Cloud is NOT an Ex-SOLDIER? I guess Rufus probably screwed up when he pointedly called him EX SOLDIER in Advent Children then. Yeah, I guess even Squeenix is contradicting themselves too so – that means that the CloTi written in the Ultimania is also a contradiction in itself. Anyways, whatever they are up to, and how THEY were the ones who also wrote the game booklet, go ahead and tell them off. I wasn’t the one who wrote the damn booklet. :/
Is you stupid or is you just high?
First off if you played the game you would know that Cloud was never in SOLDIER. Ever. Secondly Rufus says he still fights like the SOLDIER he pretended to be.
So you managed to get two very basic facts wrong. Way to go dumbass.
@ Vendel
:/ could you please refrain from the name calling? It’s only making you look the more immature one in here you know.
Rufus said that “the SOLDIER he pretended to be”, and “EX SOLDIER” at the end (Cloud replying “in the head” to that last remark). Pretty confusing huh. :/ if we are to turn this into a debate of technicality, technically speaking, Cloud is a SOLDIER just because he was given a Mako bath. I do not recall Shinra doing that for their own troop of soldiers. The Turks? They’re just awesome, don’t need any enchancements to be that awesome. So there are – based on what the Compilation has presented so far – hmm the Turks, SOLDIER, Deepground/Tsviets (maybe Shinra’s version of the SOLDIER project? Too long since I played Dirge) and your plain Shinra troops. It still hasn’t explained why they chose Cloud to be dunked into the Mako bath, or maybe they already did. In any case, yes, Cloud is a SOLDIER – he was a wuss when he was just a Shinra infantryman (if you saw the Before Crisis gameplay he was really terrible but he really had the hero’s heart going for him), but his enhanced skills was a result of the bath that turned him into a SOLDIER (not all managed to survive the treatments). And just for teh lulz, maybe even Rufus Shinra promoted him to SOLDIER based on what he did to save the world. >.>
Still, if that is WHAT is written on the manual, you’re also just going against the canon. >.> so please just refrain from trying to pursue this matter further, you’re going to just shoot yourself more.
Saying Cloud was a SOLDIER because of the experiments Hojo did on him is like saying I am in the Navy because I own a boat and call myself Captain.
And the exact line is Rufus: “Good… You fight like the SOLDIER you once claimed to be… You haven’t lost your touch… “. And because we played the game this is not confusing at all because we know Cloud was never in SOLDIER. He was rejected for being mentally weak. Which is one of the reasons he is a headcase in FFVII.
And the reason Cloud was experimented on by Hojo was because he killed Sephy. Once again something that is very basic knowledge that you should know.
So please SHUT THE FUCK UP AND JUST ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG AND STOP MAKING ABSURD EXCUSES FOR YOUR IDIOCY.
Thank you.
@ Vendel
Guess you missed that part at the end when he asked Cloud again huh. :/ oh well. Selective remembering much?
Also wat. Being mentally weak? >.> You DON’T get put into SOLDIER whether or not you’re mentally weak, you’re put there because you’re physically strong and are exceptional and a cut above the rest. That’s why you’re being scouted out. And we all know Cloud really was a wuss and that was why he failed getting in SOLDIER. That, and of course surviving the Mako bath. Given that of course you must be of sound mind to begin with, as it is also one of the major reasons why you may or may not get a job in real life. But there wasn’t even evidence that points out Cloud WAS like that prior to try and join SOLDIER. His heart really was willing and his mind was on “must get on SOLDIER mode for Tifa”. A person who is very determined enough will show the mental fortitude or whatever to joining anything, so you’re shooting yourself in the foot again. Imagine Cloud trying to get on SOLDIER but was probably too physically weak to be even noticed by Shinra and got rejected for the SOLDIER project – and made him more devastated. All that, and of course shattering his dream to become strong enough to protect Tifa. You’re the one making things up. :/
Wow. I could make the same claim then if I killed Sephiroth by some miracle. :/ heck anyone could. Maybe it was one of the reasons, but then again one could be wrong right, even if it was one of the reasons? What if Cloud didn’t survive the Mako bath and proved Hojo that it was all there was to Cloud? We may take the account that Cloud was, in a fit of rage, physically strong and had exceptional skills that showed up when he did kill Sephiroth. Because of course, not even Zack Fair, a FIRST CLASS SOLDIER, was able to do anything even remotely injuring Sephiroth. That in itself is intriguing. Trying to stretch it out even a bit much could get Cloud killed, so maybe Hojo saw something in Cloud other than he was just the guy who killed Sephiroth.
Also, you are the one who is making yourself look ridiculous in this argument. :/ fact is, the game manual says it is and WHATEVER you say or do, it would still be there, ON the account that Squeenix themselves allowed that to be put into print in that game manual. So just shut up already, you know you’re the one being owned in here, not me. :/ also that blatant profanity. VERY immature, because you can’t think of any counter argument except calling your opponent all sorts of nasty things and then some. Way to go kid! 😀
*sigh* Once again. Cloud states that he was never accepted into SOLDIER because he was mentally weak. A wuss does not kill Spehy. Let’s just add this to the pile of very basic facts you have gotten wrong.
The rest of your post is the usual utter garbage. Seriously if you are not a troll then you are one of the most insanely idiotic people I have ever seen around here.
@ Vendel
No, you just do not understand human nature. :/
Basically, you’re throwing out everything that made up Cloud’s character prior to him defeating Sephiroth. Add that to the fact that you’re also basically throwing out anyone who, despite the odds, managed to break out of the stereotypes/expectations of people around him/her and became utterly successful in real life.
This Cloud we’re talking about was all gung ho and determined to join the ranks of SOLDIER. This Cloud was VERY determied to join SOLDIER for Tifa way back then, because of the promise he made to Tifa. You’re shooting yourself again in the foot here. You’re basically saying and dismissing that one of the many things that made Tifa important to Cloud and an aspect of their relationship at that, as utter bull. :/ I can’t facepalm hard enough.
Seriously, just drop the name calling already? Because whatever you do and say, or how many times you swear at me, IT”S STILL THERE in the game manual. You already lose. So just stop already. :/
Do you have a point anywhere in that post?
@ Vendel
:/ guess that pretty makes it clear then you don’t have anything else left to say. Also wat. Well whatever. That settles it then.
I can only respond if you make actual points.
@ Vendel
:/
Isn’t THAT what I have been doing all along? WOW. Well this settles THAT debate then, come back until you have actually told Squeenix what they put in the manual is wrong.
I want you to take a step back and evaluate what you are saying.
You are saying a game manual made by a third party overrides the games, the movie and the official Ultimania?
Is that really the position you want to be taking?
And if that is the case then to what end? What is the point in elevating this above all others?
@ Vendel
…..>.>
I am just saying that it’s THERE already, and we can’t do anything about it. Way to confuse things.
You stand back and just read the entirety of this page and ask yourself if tehre really was anything worth elevating what I wrote to what it currently IS right now.
If Vendel is offending you so much, maybe I could jump in here and try to explain what he’s saying in a more civil manner.
You say that because the DoC game manual-which was published by a third party and not SquareEnix-says that Cloud is an Ex-SOLDIER, it must be canon.
Everyone is saying that you aren’t familiar with the source material because the original game and all subsequent entries in the Compilation contradict that.
Cloud was never in SOLDIER. SOLDIER members don’t include anyone and everyone who’s ever been injected with Mako and/or Jenova cells. Think of the Shinra army as the US Army, and SOLDIER like special ops or the Green Berets. Cloud was in the army but never made it in SOLDIER, despite his desire, attempts, and physical abilities. He didn’t make it in because his mind was too weak to handle the Jenova cells (pretty sure this was stated in one of the Ultimanias actually. anybody have that reference?)-hence why he was so fucked up in the head after Hojo experimented on him. His mind was too weak and he couldn’t handle it, so he never made the cut when trying to enter SOLDIER. Yes, he has the strength and abilities the a SOLDIER member would have due to the experiments done of him, but he was never a part of that organization.
I don’t really get why you two are arguing about this crap anyway. The reason it says that Cloud is an Ex-Soldier in that manual is so that it won’t give away the big reveal in the original game for people who haven’t played it.
As for the orphanage line in the manual: just because that was printed in a manual by a third party does not make it true when everything else is against this idea. SE has never said it, and there sure as hell isn’t a mention of an orphanage in AC/ACC, DoC, CoT, or CoD. Yes, Cloud and Tifa take care of two orphans: Marlene and Denzel, but they do not run an orphanage. This was an idea that was tossed around by fans back before AC came out and there was little info on it, but it has since been proven false. It is simply a mistake made by the publisher of the manual.
The fact that you take what is written there as canon, and not what has been shown to us in the Compilation and been told to us by SE themselves makes it seems like you don’t know the source material.
With these so called “arguments” you are presenting without actually replying to any that you have been presented with by others, it seems like you haven’t played the game. You are getting basic facts about the OG drastically wrong.
I’d suggest looking through the Ultimania content that TLS has here and getting to know the source material, or at least re-fresh your memory if you actually have played the game.
And even though I haven’t posted there in a while and am not an active member of the community here (being in the military, having children, deployments, and such other stuffs keeps me from spending a lot of time online)-I’d really suggest joining the forum. Not only are you cluttering the front page, but there are people there who are much, much nicer than Vendel that you can discuss this with.
@ Joppylop
I have no idea why this is even being dragged on like this which started from a simple opinion.
About the manual, heck every video game has manuals, and it always had been the debate of what’s been written inside that sets some canon being questioned. I am simply saying that yes it’s there, so that’s it. Nothing more and nothing less, not even meant to be argued about. As for the SOLDIER part hmm, I don’t know but it has been for some reason that one of Cloud’s trademarks – why he’s accepted as part of SOLDIER in the game – is because of the weird glow in his eyes that comes from being infused with Mako. Or maybe people in the game made that assumption up for themselves.
I have played the game and have basically read the novellas and watched the movie. And even then, unless the Compilation stops adding more and more into making the LTD more muddled and the whole of FF 7 more and more detested for those who enjoyed the original game, there is the straight fact that what is written in the Ultimanias will have more than its share of believers and non believers. It has been this way for EVERY argument made for whatever belief there is available right now, and even throughout history. It may be true for some but people will still have plenty of reasons why they should have a different opinion of it. Is the experience of FF 7 wrong for gamers who felt Clerith was the true pairing for them when the game ended? Is saying their experience is wrong and that CloTi is the TRUE game experience something that should be even remotely referred to as “unbiased”? I am not denying the existence of CloTi except for me it’s not a romantic OMG TRUE LOVE sense that people have been bashing other opinions here for.
“Ryu- “Err, no, It takes her awhile to realize she’s been emotionally influenced by the spectre of her dead love in Cloud and resolves to get to like Cloud for who he is, a chance she never gets.
There’s no ‘point’ either way.”
ES- “No, you just admitted Clerith.”
What?
Can you please explain to me how Aerith loving Cloud brings you to a Clerith conclusion?
SE themselves state that Cloud is oblivious to her affections and there is no proof in the Compilation or any material released by SE commenting on it that he returns those feelings.
Just because Aerith loves him doesn’t mean that they are/were a couple. And no one here would deny Aerith’s feelings for Cloud. It’s fact that she loved him, but that doesn’t make Clerith canon, dear.”
That was made in sarcasm mainly because Ryushikaze was shooting down every argument I made with his canon interpretation and denying the existence of Clerith outright. And just one scene DOES the entirety for CloTi? :/ and practically the allusions that were given off by the Case of Tifa (especially after it ended with Cloud NOT calling her back and that LOLWUT moment of Cloud saying Denzel was sent to them by way of Aerith), and the movie (Tifa’s anguish should give you a HINT)? I think KH has a bearing to the whole Clerith debate, that the ending was what Aerith and Cloud’s relationship were to each other (was confirmed), and since they just contradict each other too well, then I guess it has no bearing at all. The feelings you all are saying could be ANY type of feeling. Dismissing what people say as counter arguments to the CloTi side is simply just stretching it too far for it to be just saying that “no, it’s because of this that it came to that” argument.
To sum up.. ES, who is getting multiple very easily determined facts about the game, novellas, and movie very wrong, is telling us that the translators are wrong, the C/T side is wrong, everyone is wrong.
Eido, I can grant you the AU games and C/T still wins. Because though they don’t actually count towards the main narrative of FF7, they still aren’t Clerith. Not KH (especially not given KH2) and not Tactics. Then there’s Ehrgeiz, Itadaki St. Special and C/T’s in game conversations there, and maybe Dissidia 12, which by the usual standards of AU shipping rules- nonsense as they are- would mean that C/T is OMGTrulove forever because they said ‘hi’ in another timeline.
ES, I invite you to actually join the lifestream forums. You want to speak this much, the front page is not the place to do it. The forums are.
Also, given the amount of text you’ve managed to pump out here, your ‘I have work’ claim does not hold much water.
Oh really? Where have you pulled that up? >.> You probably have no idea how to refute the claims I have been telling you guys over here. And so you all resort to saying I am a troll and that I am completely delusional. Dear, you probably would have me a culprit on that one if I didn’t ELABORATE on Tifa’s pain, and how am I’m using it to understand why Tifa is acting so strangely even after all the love has been sealed, delivered, and what have you. >.> Also, to make things even funnier, even Cloud’s mom is Clerith.
Also I THROW that question back to you. You’re the ones claiming the other people who have different opinions and translations other than your own as wrong. What makes it right when the others are wrong? Does this mean your opinion is better than others just because OMG they finally said that CloTi is official after 13 LONG YEARS!
Ediolon, I assure you, nothing you’ve said here is in any way, shape, or form, intimidating to me, Ven, or Quex. Your claims are easily discerned as being based on false data. You ask Ven if he has ever read CoT, but you still think Cloud and Tifa ran an orphanage. You still think Aerith is Cloud’s light in KH, despite Tifa fulfilling that role in KH2. You are wrong on several salient facts.
What makes us ‘more right’ in this case is the position we hold is supported by the evidence. Relevant evidence. Consistent evidence. Verifiable evidence. That’s why Tres posted his scans. It’s not just supposed to be his word, or my word. It’s the word of the evidence. It speaks for itself. The evidence on this page alone screams with the decibels of a 747 engine.
They haven’t waited 13 years to say C/T is the official couple. They’ve been saying it for those thirteen years. Not always as loudly and as clearly in a single statement, but they’ve been saying it.
Cloud and Tifa confirm their feelings at the end of FF7, live together, and though there is a short time they live apart, they reach a communion and live together again in AC/C, DoC, and beyond.
Tifa is the only person Cloud has ever opened his heart to. Cloud’s family includes only Himself, Tfa, Denzel, and Marlene. It is the family he and Tifa were forming in edge. Tifa is an important woman to Cloud, and the mother of this family, the family to which he is the father figure. I can go on. Nothing I said there is opinion. It’s a reporting of official statements found in various ultimanias and the novellas.
The evidence supports the C/T conclusion, not the C/A one.
@ Ryushikaze
Given that you’re the moderator of the forum, it will probably give you more control over what I say over there huh? :3 how clever!
Alright, let’s start this.
“And you haven’t answered the facts I have presented to you from in AND out of the the original game.”
OK, what facts? :/ Please list down the facts that you keep ranting about.
“It’s also entirely irrelevant to the point I was making, hence bringing it up was irrelevant to arguing against my points, hence you attacked a strawman.”
Wat. You DO realize that it’s the relationship of Cloud, Tifa and Aerith we are talking about here right? So how is THAT irrelevant? OMG.
“Ah, I see we’re in the blatant Ad Hominem stage of debate. Right on schedule.”
No, you just don’t know your shipdom as far as other fans are concerned. :/
“On the contrary, she liked Cloud DESPITE not knowing who he was, which is why she wanted to get to meet the real him, instead of just thinking of him in terms of Zack once more, as she admits to doing on that same date sequence.”
Hmm heel face turn here? It took her quite a while before she decides that she likes Cloud for who he was. One point for Clerith then. :3
“It wasn’t. Nibelheim? Aerith was a major reason why everyone else wanted to go after Sephiroth, and while certainly no small reason, it was an ADDITIONAL reason for Cloud and Tifa to want to hunt him down.”
This is of course just focusing on the relationship of Cloud, Tifa and Aerith. :/ I am quite aware WHY they want to kick Sephiroth’s ass, but the other party members’ input is kinda like defeating the purpose of this discussion.
“KH2 doesn’t, and it turns out KH doesn’t either. Itadaki Street Special doesn’t.
Even FFT doesn’t focus on this. Cloud’s more concerned about finding Buster than Aerith (who he just happens to run into) which is actually a more retread theme (The importance of a sword as a symbol of people, hopes and dreams)
But this is a disingenuous point, because it ignores a couple things
1. Aerith was just as important to Tifa, Marlene, Barett, Yuffie, even Cid.
2. Cloud’s culpability in the matter. ‘I nearly killed you’ is pretty hard to get over.
3. Cloud would have felt much the same about the situation had Yuffie been up there. Zack’s death likewise haunts Cloud 2 years after the events of FF7.”
1. This discussion is about Cloud, Aerith and Tifa. Stop avoiding it. :/
2. And I didn’t even SAY that it was unimportant. :/
3. And this doesn’t fit in either. The talk is about the relationship of the 3, and I think I already covered that. :/
Also LOL. If it wasn’t particularly ABOUT Aerith, it could have been any stage of the game where Cloud could get introduced in FF Tactics. :/ and they wouldn’t put in that flower selling scene either.
“How is it putting it too strongly? And why does it suddenly not count, even though he reaffirms these feelings and confirms them with Tifa at the end of the game?”
Cloud was 14 at that time. Reaffirming ANYTHING, if any at all, would be reaffirming Cloud and Tifa moving on to start trusting each other. After all, when did Tifa manage to make a really major impact when he needed her most? During the Lifestream event? Even THEN, he was still haunted by Aerith’s death 2 years after. Some affirmation. XDDDDDD
“How was ‘Tifa not there in a way Aerith was.’ Please elaborate, as this makes no sense.”
Read the novella, and watch AC again. :/
“But that’s not what Cloud’s line at the end of FF7 means. Cloud and Tifa are basically comisserating in ‘Hey, if we die, at least we can go meet our fallen friend Aerith again.'”
LOLOLOLOLOL. Well that’s how you perceive it. But even a casual gamer who hates either shipdom could tell and comment that it was about Aerith and Cloud.
“What’s sad, dear child, is your ignorance of named fallacies, including what is apparently your favorite.
The strawman fallacy, child, is to attack an argument different than the one your opponent presented and treating that as their argument. Whether by intent or by careless reading, you have repeatedly misrepresented my statements here to you. Those distortions you are addressing instead of my arguments are the strawmen.
Now then, I can quite easily support an argument using only the original game as evidence. I see absolutely no reason to do so, however, when you will not.
What’s amusing, here, however, is the inadvertant nostalgia you’re giving me. Not a one of your arguments contain arguments that Cloud romantically loves Aerith. You’ve given a few arguments that Aerith loves Cloud, but this is not in contention nor is it relevant.
In your bruhaha with Vendel, you’re asserting that something that calls Cloud an actual Ex-SOLDIER is a more authoritative source than the rest of the compilation, including the various official sourcebooks released by Square themselves.
Also, kid, if you want to try and throw someone’s words back in their face, make sure you’re using them correctly. Calling this exchange a ‘strawman game’ doesn’t wound me, it reads more as a tacit admission that you have been misrepresenting my points.”
And so you represent the ENTIRETY of canon within the FF 7 universe? You haven’t even provided examples. Everything you throw at me is just a delusion on your part – yes a delusion that you always throw back at me. You ignore important ingredients in the relationship between Tifa and Cloud, which is pretty laughable. You just tell me straight out that I am attacking a strawman, and you twist what I am saying, when it’s pretty clear in my posts that they aren’t what you are making them up to be. It’s not I who am misrepresenting YOU, you are misrepresenting yourself. In the original game, it had always been Cloud and Aerith who was the special focus, with Tifa added in to make him into what he turned out to in AC, and Dirge. The relationship of Cloud and Aerith had always been focused in whichever AU game they are in – does that make you feel like there really IS something beyond what you and some rabid CloTi fans say as mere delusion? Also that thing with Vendel, if Rufus didn’t call Cloud an EX-SOLDIER, then Squeenix is contradicting themselves, and so the Ultimania is just one big contradiction after all. And add that to the fact Squeenix also has the say what they put in THAT game manual, whether we like it or not. :/
Please come back after you actually know what the meaning of delusion is. :3
You do know they can control what you say on this frontpage right?
So that is no excuse not to go to the forum.
You are just a coward.
Once again, the response will be contained on the forum. Your won’t be censored for being Clerith there, just as you aren’t here.
@ Ryushikaze
Reply all you want on the forum. The fact that you aren’t even reprimanding Vendel how he treats people on the front page is something that should be worth looking into, and STILL you aren’t doing anything to make him stop cussing people out. :/
Cloud and Tifa confirm their feelings at the end of FF7, live together, and though there is a short time they live apart, they reach a communion and live together again in AC/C, DoC, and beyond.
Tifa is the only person Cloud has ever opened his heart to. Cloud’s family includes only Himself, Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene. It is the family he and Tifa were forming in edge. Tifa is an important woman to Cloud, and the mother of this family, the family to which he is the father figure.
OK so I just posted that like so many times already. :/ I am NOT saying that they don’t exist – that family. I am just saying that the supposed happy family that you guys are painting up to be – CloTi ending much OMG ONEONEONE – isn’t anywhere at ALL pointing to that fact. You have a novella and a movie going against your claims. The ending of Case of Tifa WAS clearly saying that whatever happiness Cloud had was really short lived and was THAT illusion that they have finally moved on, and that was the same in Advent Children.
To start. All of those statements come from sourcebooks just as official and far more informative than an instruction manual. And all but one of them is handily available on the front page, but I can provide a scan of it once I am again at my home computer.
The fact is again, dear, Squeenix already allowed that to be put on the manual. If you are going BY that reasoning, then it is CANON and we really shouldn’t argue much about it now. :/
It is irrelevant because the discussion is not ‘how well did Cloud and Tifa know each other as kids’ but ‘Which of the two women is Cloud in love with?’ If not knowing each other well is irrelevant for C/A, as you think it is, it should also be irrelevant for C/T.
This is why I made the comment ‘If having barely any interaction between Cloud and Tifa is somehow a death knell, then what of C/A who had none?’ because C/A had no pre-game interaction. They had no lingering feelings, except for Aerith’s lingering feelings for Zack, which she addresses later on if you get her date.
:/ OK, you’re backpedaling. I didn’t say that, I even included that and added it to the whole love triangle debate, and you explicitly said that it had no bearing whatsoever on the relationship. >.> But even then, even if Tifa had all the makings of becoming that one true love for Cloud, why is it that Squeenix didn’t decide to end it then and there and allow it to be dragged on more and more? Also, wow. You just contradicted yourself. You already acknowledged how Aerith got over Zack and saw Cloud more than just being a “carbon copy” of Zack.
I don’t HAVE a shipdom, child. Like I keep telling you, I am no shipper. This is a matter of the narrative.
It’s still an ad hominem because you made the accusation in lieu of an argument, and gave no argument to back it up.
I have been writing my arguments on a daily basis here and I wonder why you haven’t SEEN what I wrote, just dismissing it as a strawman argument this and that. And really, I am just presenting my opinion on this, and how it even got to this point boggles the mind. :/ if any, you’re the culprit in that one not me – just because you find yourself a Clerith you guys must think it’s alright to outright cuss and say all my arguments are invalid on the account of that single piece of paper going against novella, movie and ingame evidence.
Err, no, It takes her awhile to realize she’s been emotionally influenced by the spectre of her dead love in Cloud and resolves to get to like Cloud for who he is, a chance she never gets.
There’s no ‘point’ either way.
No, you just admitted Clerith. :3 admit it.
As for your arguments to the points I pointed out how everyone should figure in the love triangle – um – that is a bit unorthodox? >.> Or whatever. The fact is we are discussing the triangle here. And no Zack does not count – Aerith was always the person Cloud SAW in his visions and not Zack until the end. :/ also LOL. Now why put Ergheiz in here? This discussion is about that flower scene, and other AU games with just the 2 of them involved. And yes 14. It makes a WHOLE lot of difference. Your assumption that their feelings match is going against a lot of contradictions and you know it. :/ To drive the point further, yes, it’s optional. And optional must mean that they aren’t canon right? :/
So you say.
The Ultimania Omega disagrees with you. So do a number of my ship hating friends. See, I can cite people who might or might not exist too!
At lease the UO exists and can be checked.
And we know how they contradict each other too right? >.> yeah, VERY valid. The point here is that how you seem to see CloTi even when evidence and common sense tell you otherwise, and force feeding that to people who have another opinion about it. The general atmosphere of the first few pages of these posts, OMG.
Once again, Ad hominems. At the very least, a baseless accusation, but given that this is being said to deflect away from my pointing out that you’ve been misreading/ misunderstanding/ misrepresenting the things I say, I will conclude that yes, this is an attack on my person being used instead of actually addressing the argument..
I am not twisting your statements, nor am I ignoring any ingredients. You, on the other hand, do want to ignore a number of important ingredients such as the greater context of the relationships of other people to Aerith, of Cloud’s reaction to the death of others.
If you truly believe I am misrepresenting you, then point it out.
==> To sum up.. ES, who is getting multiple very easily determined facts about the game, novellas, and movie very wrong, is telling us that the translators are wrong, the C/T side is wrong, everyone is wrong. .> how did you get that from my posts I don’t even…
Are you forgetting that Cloud himself admits he was never in SOLDIER? That when Rufus calls him Ex-SOLDIER later, his response was pointing out that he never was one? If you’ve not seen Advent Children Complete, Cloud’s pep talk with Zack includes the line (paraphrased) ‘That’s right, you never were a SOLDIER.’
Cloud was never a SOLDIER. He’s built like one, but that does not make him a member.
So which one is more canon then? The first or the second version of AC? :/
SOLDIER is just some kind of rank anyway when it all boils down to it – as people who are 1st Class just show how badass they are and SOLDIER was just something to distinguish them above the rest. Also, it’s an ended argument, if that is what is said in the manual, Squeenix says it’s canon, and shouldn’t even be argued about. :/ so let’s just let it slide OK?
Once again, you really need to work on your closing zingers. I haven’t accused you of delusion. It is you who has accused me of delusion. And rabidity. And being Cloti.
At worst, I have accused you of deliberately or unintentionally misinterpreting the things I am saying, and not being as familiar with the source material as you would like to act as you are, but you’re accusing me of the same thing on a grander scale, anyways.
Please refer to the 2nd post you made right after jumping in the bandwagon with this whole CloTi argument. OK, I give you probably don’t have the power or whatever regarding those people attacking people who formed opinions in the first few pages of these debates – but still. At best you could have done something about them, and maybe then I will believe you.
Also, your first foray into this debate tackling me as well. If that does not reek of CloTi then I dunno what is. :/ was there something foul in that first original post I made? Did you even read it? Or the posts after it even? Where is it that I attacked CloTi and denied the existence of their relationship? I have even posted stuff that you SAY I didn’t see. And oddly enough, you DON’T see and backpedal again and again. :/ but then again it’s all optional, and we know how THAT is. That hurts the validity of what you are pointing out to something more than that wasn’t SHOWN in the novella and the movie itself.
Once again, I reply, On forum and once again, I ask you to actually join that forum. I expect, once again, an excuse will be made to avoid joining, even though you have no problem lurking.
Once again, I reply, on the forum and once again, I ask you to actually join that forum. I expect, once again, an excuse will be made to avoid joining, even though you have no problem lurking.
@ Vendel
Based on how you treat the innocent people who posted here having a different opinion? :/ Yeah right. I’m not scared, but given that you are already name calling on the front page, it makes a bad impression about the other innocent members of the forum here. That, and twisting what I even write on my posts.
Your idiocy is not innocent. It is either willful ignorance or trolling. Either way I will treat you like you deserve to be treated.
Ryu- “Err, no, It takes her awhile to realize she’s been emotionally influenced by the spectre of her dead love in Cloud and resolves to get to like Cloud for who he is, a chance she never gets.
There’s no ‘point’ either way.”
ES- “No, you just admitted Clerith.”
What?
Can you please explain to me how Aerith loving Cloud brings you to a Clerith conclusion?
SE themselves state that Cloud is oblivious to her affections and there is no proof in the Compilation or any material released by SE commenting on it that he returns those feelings.
Just because Aerith loves him doesn’t mean that they are/were a couple. And no one here would deny Aerith’s feelings for Cloud. It’s fact that she loved him, but that doesn’t make Clerith canon, dear.
@ Ryushikaze
LOL. So then can you give me the concrete evidence that you rabid CloTi guys are all so proud of? The newer FF 7 compilation games do not add here – just the old game itself.
For starters, what do we know about their childhood friendship?
Cloud likes Tifa a lot.
Cloud was a shy little young boy.
Cloud could hardly even open himself up to Tifa because of how shy he was. If I didn’t know any better, he was scared of talking to Tifa, so he followed her around. And Tifa probably knew him just as a next door neighbor.
After Tifa’s fall, and Cloud blaming himself for what happened, do you think he’d REALLY talk to Tifa? That was why he resolved to become SOLDIER, so he could get stronger for Tifa to notice him.
Tifa herself acknowledged Cloud’s shyness – she was surprised that Cloud called her to talk by that huge well.
After Cloud went to Midgar, Tifa was excited that Cloud probably might have made it. So she scanned all the newspapers. No reports about Cloud becoming a hotshot legend like Sephiroth.
Then the Nibelheim real incident. After “failing” Tifa, Cloud was ashamed to admit that he was just a rookie soldier. Then Cloud screws Sephiroth after he killed Zack and Tifa.
They were immediately taken to the SHINRA Manor where Zack and he were experimented on. For how many years.
Zack gets killed and Cloud goes to Midgar. That was the next time that they ONLY met each other again. Tifa HERSELF commented on it. It had been years, but something was odd about Cloud. She was GLAD to see him back but she was feeling that there is something ODD about her childhood friend.
So how was it that you claim that Tifa was the girl opened his heart up for? >.>
Tifa IS important to Cloud. I am not even suggesting she is otherwise. Please stop shooting yourself just like Vendel here. THAT’S the only evidence you got ingame that those 2 even had interaction before Aerith came into the scene.
Eidolon, you are attacking a giant strawman. I have provided you with a list of several factual statements from various sources. These are not my opinion. All of those are the evidence themselves, not conclusions, including that Cloud has only ever opened his heart to Tifa.
I’m not worried about pregame interaction. I’m interested in their interaction during the game, and post game.
If having barely any interaction between Cloud and Tifa is somehow a death knell, then what of C/A who had none?
Cloud fell in love with Tifa before leaving Nibelheim. These feelings are reaffirmed during the lifestream sequence, and confirmed as matching and acted upon during the Highwind scene.
And please, Rabid Cloti? I’m neither. Calling a spade a spade does not make me rabid, and seeing the forest for the trees does not make me Cloti.
Eidolon, you should consider what all of these statements- by no means an exhaustive list, I assure you, merely what I could recall off the top of my head- mean when taken in aggregate, because there is a continuity of thought from the creators when regarding Cloud and Tifa that simply does not exist for Cloud and Aerith.
And yet again, I invite you to join the forum and discuss this there.
I also ask you to please cease these blatant strawmen. They are unbecoming.
LOL. No, you are the ones who DO NOT have any evidence. You haven’t EVEN answered the facts I presented to you ingame.
Pregame interaction? Would you PLEASE read my post again? >.> That was explained ingame, in the old FF 7, before the Compilation took over. And it was important, as it defined their relationship later in the Lifestream and brought Cloud back to himself. For a CloTi, you sure are lacking in THAT department. Clerith had a lot, too. Because you were just too busy focusing on CloTi, you denied the interaction that Cloud and Aerith had throughout the game.
When Cloud fell off and landed in Aerith’s flower field. She asked him to be her bodyguard, Cloud agreed, for the cost of one date (which was that at the Gold Saucer). They had some small talk and Aerith already told Cloud about Zack, whom she liked and reminded her of him. Which culminated in that Gold Saucer date, that in the course of their travels, she had started to like him for who he was and asked Cloud if she could meet the real him.
Aerith was worried over Cloud, just as Tifa was. When she decided to pray for Holy, she told Cloud that everything will be alright and told him to take care of himself. If Aerith was just a companion which Cloud really trusted, and held very dear, her death would probably have been not the focus of why he really wanted to go after Sephiroth – not that a great big deal why he had to, and continued to haunt him even 2 years after she died. Of course, this is not saying he’d not be like that if Tifa died, but Tifa saw how strongly Aerith had reached to him, smiling and nodding at the end of FF 7, knowing that indeed, Aerith was very important to Cloud, something that haunted him for 2 years, something which was the focus of any AU game that decided to pop Aerith in it with Cloud.
Tifa and Cloud have a solid relationship, just as Cloud and Aerith have a solid relationship. What Tifa didn’t manage to do was trying to get to Cloud – this was what she showed in the “Case of Tifa” and led to Advent Children. Tifa is important to Cloud. Cloud liked Tifa a lot when he was a kid, but love is putting it too strongly. Tifa wasn’t there in a way Aerith was – another frustration that Tifa had and ACKNOWLEDGES herself. If Cloud’s line at the end of FF 7 mean anything to you, then that’s how the relationship with Tifa is.
You remind me of someone from a board I was part of who takes what is written in an anime magazine too seriously. So if you don’t have anything to buttress your argument with and decide to call me a strawman or what the heck else, then just stop. You are just making yourself silly in this argument. :3 how a Clerith seems to know more about CloTi than a true blue CloTi in this strawman game – isn’t it sad? :3
My response to your latest argument can be found on the forums, Eidolon, in this post. Further responses should be made in that thread as well.
@ Ryushikaze
“Because we don’t censor people on the forum or the frontpage. That’s the point. You won’t be censored unless your commentary is blatantly spam, pornographic, or endorsing illegal acts.”
:/ I’ve been to MANY boards and this is probably the first one I’ve encountered who even short of encourages the act of cussing people. Ever heard of internet etiquette?
“The ending of Case of Tifa says nothing of the sort, and Advent Children shows Cloud getting OVER the problems that keep him from letting himself indulge in his happiness and heading home. We have been told, flat out that “The happier Cloud is living with Tifa and the children, the more the past weighs on him.”
The point is not ‘their happiness was an illusion’ but ‘Cloud’s demons tortured him more the happier he was.'”
Wat. Wat. Wat. No he didn’t. Selective reading, anyone? >.> That WAS the start of the Case of Tifa and things took a horrible turn when Elmyra asked him to deliver flowers to Aerith. Please READ it again will you.
“Then so are all the other statements, and we have a contradiction between canon information and the preponderance of the canon lies in favor of Cloud never being a SOLDIER. The story, in fact, makes no sense if Cloud was in SOLDIER.”
Huh? :/ and how does it NOT make sense? And so you admit that the canon you have been using all this time also contradicts itself. Way to go. Thanks for proving my point. 😀
“I’m not saying you said that kiddo, nor am I backpedaling. What I’m saying is that none of my initial statements nor in fact the whole of my argument really cares just how close the two of them were, since we know that close or not, the two were interested in each other before Nibelheim.
I am also saying that the lack of closeness is no real issue for the one pair. If it is, then it must logically be for the other. Ergo, even if they were not close at all, then it is no impedement to C/T, just as it would not be to C/A.”
:/ well just refer to your initial statement to me. You are confusing yourself.
“Actually, I acknolwedged she realized they were different people. I disagree that she ‘got over’ Zack. And her emotions for Zack do influence her emotions for Cloud up until (and maybe after, you never know) the point she realizes she’s been conflating the two.”
Yeah, I think after I put the emphasis on that anyway. :/
“No. You are not. An opinion is “I like Clerith as a pairing better than Cloti.” What you’ve been doing here is arguing to establish the point that C/T is false.”
:/ way to confuse everything. My first post in this LTD debate was just putting what I thought about the whole affair, and some of the people took it as some kind of offense and started attacking me for an opinion. Please read what I first wrote in here again and then come back after you’ve actually understood what it says.
“… Unless “Clerith” means solely “Aerith likes Cloud and fuck what chocobutt thinks”- and oftentimes it does seem to be using that very definition when I talk with people- I have done no such thing.”
Yeah you did. :3
“You are wholly and blatantly wrong on this fact. And yes, Zack is ENTIRELY relevant.”
How so? Just so to say the fact that Aerith is important to Cloud as Zack was so the relationship between Aerith and Cloud doesn’t exist? :/ I am not saying he isn’t important, and I am not saying that Aerith didn’t like Cloud because she reminded him of her first love. But if you are using the first argument then, I could probably also say that wow, Barrett and Tifa are living together, they live in the AVALANCHE base with Marlene even before Cloud came back into the picture, OMG CANON! Your argument is riddled with lots of holes.
“It is no assumption. 8 times it has been said that their feelings match. You say these go up against ‘a lot of contradictions’ but what are these contradictions? Can you name any? Can you actually demonstrate that they do contradict this point?”
Based on Ultimanias and other sources that contradict each other. Yeah, valid. :/ The sources could say that all they want but ingame (the entire Highwind scene was just optional and shoots down any assumptions you even make after that point), novella and movie wise, they don’t hold anything. It’s just your opinion as much as what the rest of the fandom says it is. :/ blatantly saying that nothing has Clerith in it is probably what shot you down as CloTi either. I am a Clerith, but I don’t pretend I didn’t SEE that they really do care for each other (CloTi) a great deal, whereas you make it a point in every argument you make that the CloTi in every “significant” scene to you is invalidating the existence of Clerith, to the point of just saying it subtly Clerith doesn’t really exist at all.
“Nope. Optional means you have a choice. You can always pick the wrong choice. Sometimes there is no ‘correct’ choice, as is apparently the case with the dates. Sometimes there IS a correct choice, like getting Yuffie and Vincent for your team, or visiting Lucrecia by the waterfall. These things are optional, but canon. Just like the High Highwind scene, which was included as the version in two separate editions of Memorial Album, essentially an authorized game script.
For the record, all four dates were shown in both editions of that book.”
:/ now you’re backpedaling. And are you implying that Aerith is somehow not a correct choice too (as far as your canon goes)? Besides you can finish FF 7 without even recruiting Yuffie or Vincent at all if you like to, except of course you’d have no idea what the Wutai Wars were or who Lucrezia is.
“You claim they contradict each other. Please, explain how.
Kid, you’re trying to claim that Clerith is the natural and default response to that. This is not the case. At all. And even if it were, it’s entirely possible for the ‘non fans’ to be entirely wrong. They have been many many times. Hell, actual fans have been wrong. R=U, for one.
The jist of the scene is that Cloud telling Tifa that they can meet Aerith again, and Tifa going ‘Yes, let’s go meet her'”
As far as your canon and opinion goes they don’t. :/ Also claiming non fans possibly wrong, oh WOW! XDDDD So how does it make your version of the canon any more credible and accurate then? Does this somehow save you from your own – GASP! – inaccuracy as far as your argument for CLoTi goes? Your contradictions are all over the place OMG. >.>
“It’s very simple.
You were getting simple facts about the canon wrong. You were accusing everyone of Bias, and denying any validity to the C/T conclusion by throwing around ‘optional’ this and ‘optional’ that. It was very simple, actually. All I did was summarize what I saw you doing.”
No you weren’t. X3 So this falls under your “my canon >>>>>>>>> everyone else’s who are Clerith” argument. I am not denying CloTi is there, just that they are there for me because they have a deep respect and trust for each other. You are the one going around shooting off this and that claiming that Clerith is wrong and all Cleriths should feel bad just for even suggesting it because “CANON”. :/
“No.
SOLDIER is a Paramilitary group to which Cloud never belonged. He was never a SOLDIER. Manuals are at the lowest of the low end of officiality scales, especially translated ones which get basic facts from the game wrong. Cloud was never in SOLDIER. Cloud and Tifa never ran an orphanage.”
Squeenix put it in a manual, so therefore, going by your rules that everything written is canon, it is also CANON. This isn’t even something to be argued about. :/ so just drop it already.
“You haven’t been offering an opinion, as I detailed above. My second post towards you called your conclusions wrong as ‘based on false data’ which is not calling you delusional.
As for the arguments of other people, I will not censor them as I will not censor you, unless you are Vendel does something reprehensible, which at the moment, he’s not doing and neither are you.”
So…all you know about me is just from that one post? >.> You haven’t bothered what my first post actually WAS huh? Cool. :/ Also here you are again, about me getting my facts absolutely wrong from your canon. What do you HAVE that sets you apart from other people having different opinions on a damn video game? :/ you DO realize it’s a video game we are arguing about in here huh?
Also, I even doubt if you actually read what my first post was about. This is called “having an opinion”. Just because I suggested that the Japanese language could mean differently and could have many, MANY interpretations just as all other languages ARE, it isn’t something that attacks CloTi. It’s just saying that we are all entitled to our own opinions, and we shouldn’t bash others because “OMG they took the facts wrongly because we didn’t TRANSLATE what they did, so therefore it’s wrong and should be justly bashed” – which this entire discussion is about really. :/ I am merely trying to defend myself from outright bashing from Vendel and subtly from yourself.
Response, to remove front page clutter, again located on the forum which you should bite the bullet and join.
Welcome back, Joppylop.
@ Ryushikaze
“I have. But our board has no desire to become a net nanny or enforce a certain form of conduct in the rules.”
So this makes people qualified to bash people for having an opinion? :/ OK then. Net nanny it ain’t, you sure are doing a horrible job and letting people think that it’s alright to bash people with different opinions.
“>>The hyperbole of ‘horrible turn’ aside<.> and I am already saying for like ever since Vendel got on my case for that…just drop it. It’s there. No matter how much we hate it, it’s there.
“That’s not my initial statement to you. Nor does that have a damn thing to do with the closeness of Cloud to either woman, but of Aerith’s lingering emotions towards Zack.”
But you are arguing for CloTi here aren’t you? :/ explain yourself. You just contradicted yourself.
“I have read your first post. It does not read as pure opinion, but various casting of aspersions.”
So. Do you have a rule outlining what an opinion is too and what isn’t? :/
“Except, again, that’s not my argument at all. My argument is that the way Cloud reacts to both of their deaths, lamenting both of them two years later, points out that he does not react in a special romantic way towards Aerith, alive or dead.
Also, you are factually wrong, because Cloud sees Zack long before he sees Aerith in AC/C.”
OK so how DOES that even count in the LTD? :/ I amNOT even arguing that Cloud didn’t see Zack or whatever it is you’re arguing in here. And yet why Aerith mattered so much for Cloud’s forgiveness of himself in the movie is something I’d like to know too and how you can explain it away.
“8 Times they say the same thing, and you say they contradict each other. Even if they disagree elsewhere, they very much agree on this.
So, the sources don’t count because they don’t like what you say on the subject? And no, the highwind scene was not optional.”
No, you’re guilty on that one, not me. If you can point out some canon wherein everybody was happy with it and had no shipping/ shipping bashing each other, then you can even actually win an argument like that. This is of course disregarding other types of shipping too, you know (yaoi, yuri, what else floats their boats). Heck, even giving someone a book and ask how it was for them has different experiences for different people. How this is any diffeent is rather laughable.
The Highwind scene is optional – HOW you get to spend it with Tifa IS optional. The feelings required to get certain events in the scene is optional.
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
Oh really? Try and prove it.
“My canon? If you refer to the dates, my point is that none of the dates seems to be ‘the’ correct choice. We keep getting hammered with the idea of all four of them. With the Highwind scene, only the high version has been addressed. Only the high version was listed as one of the four important scenes of FF7 in the 20th Anniversary Ultimania. Only the high version was in both versions of Memorial Album.”
And getting the high affection rating was pretty much OPTIONAL for the player right? :/
“Yes. And that is ‘the wrong choice’ since recruiting those characters and doing their sidequests happened in the canon.”
In the Compilations you mean? :/ I had no problem recruiting McDohl in Suikoden 2 and it doesn’t do anything for the story, unless it is of course unlocking the protagonist’s 4th level spell, or some other. That and I love McDohl to death. That pretty much covers it all.
Anyway if it WAS like that, you’d still get to know what the Wutai Wars were, or even Lucrezia, based on the Compilation’s recent games, even without recruiting those 2. It’s not like the FF 7 world stopped just because you didn’t recruit them. :/ that world’s history would still be there. They’re easily missable if you don’t like going after that mysterious ninja girl or even visiting a vampire zombie thing in the Shinra Mansion basement (which lets you lose some important Materia/weapons/accessories on the side).
“Because ‘my version of the canon’ is the one that agrees with the OG, the movies, the novellas, and the sourcebooks.”
Seeing the first posts of this debate prove otherwise. :/ some people didn’t agree with it clearly.
“Again, so you keep saying, but you never actually point one out.”
Wow. Where to begin. >.> You are claiming you aren’t making Cleriths feel bad, but the way you spout such CloTi even in your first post here against what I wrote – that I got my facts wrong and even going for the OG says it’s blatantly CloTi argument – is making me think otherwise. :/ If you’re going to keep at your stance, just do it and don’t backtrack/backpedal when one point is already pointed out for you.
“It is something to be argued about, Kiddo. And no, I don’t have the ‘rule’ that everything written is canon. Please, stop looking for a wedge to try and discount all the sourcebooks. I know they say things about the canon you don’t like. I know you think they contradict the canon, but what they do is contradict YOUR INTERPRETATION of canon. And they are amazingly consistent on this subject.”
Yeah, and having an ending canon like the other couples ARE for different FF games makes you think something must be wrong. And the people who posted before me who thinks that something probably is a bit different when you guys translated the entire thing. If they were consistently canon, you wouldn’t have them bashed and so am I. :/ and the shipdom wars across all genres will be gone forever.
“I do. And what sets me apart is that I realize these things are not actually opinions.”
>.>
<..> WAT.
“People are entitled to opinions. But too often people use the shield of opinion on things that are anything but. You have not been arguing about opinions, but claims on the narrative, claims on the Japanese language. Claims about other people.
If telling you your hypothesis is wrong counts as bashing, then no amount of ettiquette or miss manners false civility will make you feel any less bashed.”
Again, please refer to the first posts of this debate. :/ People suggesting some translations, all shot down. People who make otherwise innocent posts about other things get dragged out. Now, if you can pretty much explain to me what happened before I posted here and say that it’s all because of their “wrong” translations, then I will believe you.
Also that is rather a bad way of putting it. If this were a debate in real life, you could even get hurt or killed for being VERY rabid about disregarding people’s opinions when it came to your own beliefs. This does not make you entitled to cuss at people, or even outright bashing them because they are wrong. The way you wouldn’t LIKE it if a teacher or some generic rival singles you out for not knowing the right answer and then you get laughed at or bashed for it. Well this is how you guys run this site, and you probably have your own ways how to handle things here. But for me, taking spam, pornographic materials and illegal activities OVER basic decent human socialization skills is rather a bit off putting.
“But nothing was revealed in the ending. Just that they knew each other, that they were friends. And then KH2 came along and blew the idea that Aerith was his light- an idea based largely on assumption- completely out of the water. That was a day of some mighty fine backpedaling from the Clerith camp.”
Dohohohohohohoho. Well Cloud IGNORED all her efforts to EVEN accept that light (and he’s more of a Sephiroth fanboy I guess). Also if Cloud knew that already, he wouldn’t even be doing run around travelling just so he can get to know more about that light. :/ traveling to explore his options and his reasons? Given the background of the Compilation and Ultimanias you are so mighty proud of, you sure as hell would actually realize that Cloud didn’t HAVE to wander about anymore, if they were already OMG TRUE LOVE for each other. And we have Aerith waiting for him at the end of KH2, they did promise to see each other and Aerith even telling him to “OK, you go ahead and do what you have to do, I’ll always just be here when you sort all things out”. Just one scene totally made you believe it WAS Tifa huh? WOW!
“There are several pointed similarities, but the way ES conducts themself here and on TFC doesn’t quite trigger the Shroudy response. Seeing the IP, though, I have an idea.”
Themselves? >.> I didn’t know there exists an entirely new me in another forum. Anyway Quexinos already invited me to her forum (if you saw her post too on this LTD page), if that would clear up your assumptions about me and that ES over there as a pair of…well…”themselves”… >.> I wouldn’t go as far as seeing what you also are on that so…yeah.
Dissidia isn’t AU, everyone keeps saying it is, but it’s not. IT’s part of the Final Fantasy series.
In a very literal sense, Quex, it’s an Alternate Universe story, because, well, it is. But you are correct that there is continuity of characters between Dissidia and the game each character comes from.
It’s still not showing itself to be immensely relevant to the original timelines of each, and this comes from the man who wrote a treatise on Firion’s possible influence on Cloud in ACC.
Isn’t it possible that they were pulled from their universes into the Dissidia one and then put back? That’s what I always figured… or is that what you mean by AU?
In this case, that’s what I mean when I say it is, in a very literal sense, an Alternate Universe story- since it takes place in a literal alternate universe.
And yes, they were pulled from and returned to their own world- that is what I mean by continuity of character.
What I’m saying, though, is that Dissidia has not yet had a measurable effect in the return universe, outside of its implied effects on FF1.
Eidolon, just join the forums already.
Oh my gosh! I know this note is waaaaay late but I can’t help but drop a note. I just tumbled upon this site when this particular article caught my eye and I was overly ecstatic! And it compliments this fic I read 2days ago! I so love you guys for providing these info to non-Japanese people like me! It has been a naked truth that some just refuse to see… and now I’m ready to… er politely stuff this fact in my sister’s thick head,LOL… Don’t worry, I’m not a bash-strangle-kill-that-SOB-because-I-don’t-like-him/her type, I’m just so in Cloud9 🙂 but Bishojo1218 could just DIE AGAIN right now! Anyway, again, itsumo domo arigatou!^_^
After all the hours of working on the entire Final Fantasy VII Compliation, I can’t comprehend why fans enjoy Clerith! What’s the big deal about the love triangle that doesn’t seem to exist. Tifa and Aerith didn’t remotely single each other out when it came to Cloud’s affectionate value towards them, but at the beggining of the game Aerith sort of did. I recall Aerith saying, “Don’t worry we just met,” to Tifa. Obviously she knew the feelings between them even though she recently met the both of them. The thing is that even though Aerith is a good, tragic heroine, she wasn’t for Cloud. Why can’t the Cleriths just see that Cloud and Tifa’s love story is amazing and frankly it is one of the best story-tellings I ever heard. It’s not cliche, they both knew each in memory but didn’t exactly knew what the other person was always like. Cloud and Aerith on the other hand, was just another Fantasy Classic couple, with the cliche “Oh, I just met you, so I think I’m falling in love.” So glad Cecil and Rosa didn’t have that type of thing going on, personally I think the Cecil-Rosa-Kain love triangle is more interesting. Although it is not like Aerith and Cloud didn’t feel something, it’s just that they are connected by Zack. So in my opinion the love triangle didn’t really exist as much fiery that shippers intended it to be. And as simply put that anyone can state, Cloud = Tifa and Zack = Aerith. Finally, I can move on with my life.
you took the words right out of my mouth but heck got to love the drama going on around here though (who doesn’t love an internet war)
i saw someone’s used a sketch script to prove cloreith. it’s just a sketch, dude. you can write it in a chronicle of ff7 but not for ltd. if we used that sketch as a proof, then students will show their sketches to teachers to gain marks and ask them to neglect their wrong answers on the real answer-papers. the game and film are the results, not sketch. just use those results to prove you’re right. and also take Oedipus and those kids, Romeo and Juliet away from here. Shakespeare is from the Occident while Nomura is from the Orient, east and west they have different cultures and views! and you can’t compare their style of story building because Shakespearean is Shakespeare and Nomura is Nomura.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMr2YfQ3ctA&feature=related
FAIL.
Nomura and the others of the squaresoft new and old school are Shakespeare fan.
Looks like a poorly made fan trailer.
It is. The inclusion of the highly overused “Lux Æterna” piece from “Requiem for a Dream” made that a dead giveaway.
So in other words it’s like this… Romeo and co. travel to the City of Ancients to retrieve Juliet, who was praying for the effects of her Ultimate White Materia, Holy, to repel Meteor. Romeo and co. find Juliet on the alter praying, and Romeo decides to retrieve Juliet alone. However, instead of getting her, he brings out his Buster Sword to slash her; under the influence of Tybalt and JENOVA. His party they yells out, “What the hell are you doing!?”. He then stops and tries to recollect himself. Juliet looks up just in time to smile at her “beloved” one last after she is pierced through her abdomen by Tybalt. Romeo becomes angry, and him and his party then take care of JENOVA, for the meanwhile. After that Romeo takes Juliet’s deceased body to the lake and says his last goodbyes to his love. However, later it is revealed that the life that he was portraying as is a complete lie. He then restores his true self in the Lifestream with Rosaline, where it is revealed that his true love is indeed Rosaline. They then confess their mutual feelings to each other without words under the Highwind. After they defeated Tybalt and survive the Planet survives the fall of Meteor because Holy worked, they then live together with two children and call themselves a family. Yeah… I can totally see how this is similar to Romeo and Juliet. *rolls eyes* Maybe the Oedipus Rex story is similar with the identity crisis, but the story is missing incest, at the very least. *grimaces*
yeah, that would be the 21st century version of Romeo and Juliet. Why don’t we say that Romeo was under the influence of Count Paris til he found himself in the lifestream? 😛
I can’t believe I spent almost an hour reading the comments. I don’t even care who Cloud likes anymore…he’s a horrible boyfriend either way. Can’t seem to decide who he loves. Aerith is dead and having the time of her life with Zack up in heaven, so Tifa should just go find another man.
I was once a CloTi, now a Noctella. Now that’s a fandom that definitely can’t be debated.
Can’t decide who he loves? It was always Tifa. That is one of the points of the game. This page also tells you flat out it was Tifa. Where is the confusion coming from?
I’m just saying this Clorith Cloti debate will never end and both sides will never be satisfied, nomatter what concrete evidence there is (unless of course all writers make a YT video screaming out to fans “CLOUD LOVES TIFA ROMANTICALLY NOT AERITH!!”.
FYI I’m a Cloti fan, but I’ve had enough of this hostility. I’m choosing to move on with life and ship another pairing, which in my case is Noctella.
This is not a shipping preference discussion. This is about canon.
One is a matter of opinion. The other, not.
But I’m not talking about which pairing is canon, I said I didn’t care anymore. I don’t even know why you’re so defensive?
I wasn’t trying to start anything, I was just commenting my opinion on this whole Clorith Cloti obsession.
You come on to a page with a translation that flat out tells you C/T are a couple and declare that Cloud “Can’t decide who he loves”.
How exactly is that not discussing canon?
That’s the thing about Cloud, he is very much Human (I mean come on there is no such thing as a perfect relationship…just got to do the best you can with what you got…course should it not work out, doesn’t matter there are a lot of fishes to catch in the vast ocean anyway) but anyway I agree with the whole debate being nothing but an obsessions to both ships hence I don’t like final fantasy anymore (moved on to better things…DC comics and finding a job)
Oh my gosh. When I made that comment I wasn’t trying to disprove this entire article. If I really believed Cloud loved Aerith blahblah I wouldn’t going on about how I really DON’T GIVE A DAMN who’s canon who’s not, so stop trying to shove the fact CloTi are canon in my face! I made a general opinionated comment because this is a comment section (thus I’m allowed to comment whatever the hell I want), I didn’t ASK for you to interpret it as ‘discussing canon’ or reply at all.
So what if I believe Cloud can’t decide who he loves!? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? Come over to my house, tie me up and torture me until I believe it?! GOOD LUCK.
Just get a life already. Far out, I wasn’t even trying to offend you for fucks sake, if anything I would’ve been on your side about CloTi at the beginning but your attitude just put me off that idea.
kthxbai.
Alright let’s see if we can break this down.
You come on a page that spells out the main canon couples from the first 10 FF games. You state that you don’t care who Cloud loves. Then you contradict yourself by declaring that Cloud can’t decide who he loves.
I then inform you that the question of who Cloud loves has been answered.
After being informed of this you then decide that this is a shipping discussion and not about the article anymore.
I call you on that a couple of times.
You respond with a level of vitriol that I can only ascribe to “asshurt shipper syndrome”.
It’s symptoms include 1. Not being able to accept canon. 2. Attempts to thwart any discussion of canon. and 3. Hostility when pressed on the issues of canon.
Given all of this I don’t think it would shock anyone if you are really a C/A shipper.
Okay genius. Since you’re obviously so well informed about what goes on inside my head then you obviously should know I hate Aerith and I hate the CloRith pairing. But ahh since I have “asshurt shipper syndrome” I guess I’m automatically a CloRith shipper…it’s only logical.
Thanks to you I want out of the community of CloTi. And to think I loved that pairing so much, who knew deluded hardcore fans like you could do this much?
You know, I don’t think I’m the only one with “asshurt shipper syndrome here”. But whatever, if you believe I’m so strongly against the fact Cloud and Tifa are canon, have it your way. Whatever makes you sleep tonight.
I didn’t say it was automatic that you were a C/A shipper. You just have many of the symptoms. Thus no one would be shocked if you were. You seem rather defensive about this.
The “community of CloTi”? Is that some sort of cult? The only people I know who talk like that reside on shipper forums dedicated to a certain non-canon pairing. I’ll let you guess which. That talk and the melodrama are also very strong symptoms BTW.
And I sleep just fine thank you.
Cool story bro.
Seeing the continual degradation of your post only serves to further highlight the points I have made.
No Maria and Firion?? >_<
Other sources did say that the High version of the Highwind scene was the canon. I always find it romantic. ^_^
I also love Rosa and Cecil.
here is how I rate the romancing between character
Ingus and Sara= cute little kids
Cecil and Rosa= a married couple with a kid
Bartz= is forever alone with his friend Boco
Celes and Locke= rocky at first but gets sweet
Cloud and Aerith= a romance that could never happen and will stay that way (revival of Aerith is pointless too, cause it would lose what made VII special in the newer fan’s heart, the death of someone who you came to call friend)
Cloud and Tifa= childhood sweet hearts in a slow budding relationship (Cloud needs to be happy, it’s you Aerith and Cloud fans that are pulling the character back, which is why he became emo in ACC)
Squall and Rinoa= cute, unrealistic couple to ever grace the world of Gaming (what is so unrealistic is the fact Rinoa loved Seifer before the game then instantly went “fuck it, I going to hook with mr. whatever over by the corner” bullshit)
Zidane and Garnet=cute couple and very heartwarming
Tidus and Yuna= they have been through a lot just like Cloud and Tifa, and the part where Tidus would have to sacrifice himself instead of Yuna to end the cycle of Sin is very touching indeed (I’m sorry but in my way of thinking of Final Fantasy, X-2 never and I say, NEVER existed, less someone re-writes the gameplay play then I’ll consider it existed)
No couple for XI- cause it’s a online game
not pretty sure about XII (never played the game cause I stopped at X)
Snow and Serah= are engaged
Cloud and Tifa! <3 When do square enix is going to do a real romantic scene of them -_-'
Okay, a lot of people are saying that the writers are wrong because Tifa and Cloud aren’t the canon couple. I can bet that if the writers said Cloud and Aerith “confirmed that their feelings match,” Clerith fans wouldn’t have said shit. Even though to the individual player Cloud may have shown affection to Aerith, it’s ultimately up to the creators of FFVII that say who’s canon and who isn’t. The makers of the Ultimania say that the date scene between Aerith and Cloud were based heavily on Cloud’s behavior–which I’m assuming means his dual personality with Zack Fair at the time. To be honest, that translation for Aerith and Cloud confused me due to the weird grammar. So I can’t really say anything about it. But the Ultimania also said that between Tifa and Cloud, Cloud confirmed that his feelings matched with Tifa’s. We’ve known throughout the entire game that Tifa loves Cloud and it was quite unbearable to watch Tifa struggle for words. Really unbearable. But if it said that Cloud confirmed that his feelings MATCHED Tifa’s, then we can assume that Cloud loves Tifa as well because they MATCH. Right? Also, just because the Ultimania said “Cloud confirmed without words,” doesn’t mean that he doesn’t love her. How many love songs for instance, talk about love with no words? It’s not always about being verbal. We all know that smiling (as noted in On the Way to a Smile: Tifa’s case when Cloud smiled/blushed when he told Tifa that everything will be alright since he has Tifa with him), holding hands (if you remember how Cloud and Tifa held hands while leaving the Lifestream together), and sex (to be honest I think people are being indenial when they say that didn’t have sex -_-), can be a way of proving someone’s love for each other. So using the “without words” excuse doesn’t prove anything. I’m not saying that Cloud never loved Aerith–but I don’t think it was the same way he felt for Tifa. There’s more instances that lean towards Cloud and Tifa’s case than Aerith. Cloud and Tifa’s promise to always be each other’s heroes, how Tifa helped Cloud piece back together who he really was, and the Highwind scene. It wasn’t just the sex, but the fact that while everyone else in the group had someone or something to go home to, Cloud and Tifa were left alone–and knew that they only had each other left. And in the Lifestream scene, the little Cloud even mentioned that when Tifa admitted that she constantly looked in the newspapers for Cloud’s progress after he left Nibelheim, little Cloud noted that she should tell Cloud that fact when he wakes up, because he’d be happy to hear that. Now why would he be happy with the fact that Tifa always looked out for him? And the fact that little Cloud said that–didn’t the little Cloud symbolize his most pure/innocent personality; the REAL Cloud? Just saying. So I think Cloud and Tifa were the canon couple.
Besides, are you really going to take Zack’s true love away from him? That’s messed up… ;(
Okay, a lot of people are saying that the writers are wrong because Tifa and Cloud aren’t the canon couple. I can bet that if the writers said Cloud and Aerith “confirmed that their feelings match,” Clerith fans wouldn’t have said shit. Even though to the individual player Cloud may have shown affection to Aerith, it’s ultimately up to the creators of FFVII that say who’s canon and who isn’t. The makers of the Ultimania say that the date scene between Aerith and Cloud were based heavily on Cloud’s behavior–which I’m assuming means his dual personality with Zack Fair at the time. To be honest, that translation for Aerith and Cloud confused me due to the weird grammar. So I can’t really say anything about it. But the Ultimania also said that between Tifa and Cloud, Cloud confirmed that his feelings matched with Tifa’s. We’ve known throughout the entire game that Tifa loves Cloud and it was quite unbearable to watch Tifa struggle for words. Really unbearable. But if it said that Cloud confirmed that his feelings MATCHED Tifa’s, then we can assume that Cloud loves Tifa as well because they MATCH. Right? Also, just because the Ultimania said “Cloud confirmed without words,” doesn’t mean that he doesn’t love her. How many love songs for instance, talk about love with no words? It’s not always about being verbal. We all know that smiling (as noted in On the Way to a Smile: Tifa’s case when Cloud smiled/blushed when he told Tifa that everything will be alright since he has Tifa with him), holding hands (if you remember how Cloud and Tifa held hands while leaving the Lifestream together), and sex (to be honest I think people are being indenial when they say that Tifa and Cloud didn’t have sex -_-), can be a way of proving someone’s love for each other. So using the “without words” excuse doesn’t prove anything. I’m not saying that Cloud never loved Aerith–but I don’t think it was the same way he felt for Tifa. There’s more instances that lean towards Cloud and Tifa’s case than Aerith. Cloud and Tifa’s promise to always be each other’s heroes, how Tifa helped Cloud piece back together who he really was, and the Highwind scene. It wasn’t just the sex, but the fact that while everyone else in the group had someone or something to go home to, Cloud and Tifa were left alone–and knew that they only had each other left. And in the Lifestream scene, the little Cloud even mentioned that when Tifa admitted that she constantly looked in the newspapers for Cloud’s progress after he left Nibelheim, little Cloud noted that she should tell Cloud that fact when he wakes up, because he’d be happy to hear that. Now why would he be happy with the fact that Tifa always looked out for him? And the fact that little Cloud said that–didn’t the little Cloud symbolize his most pure/innocent personality; the REAL Cloud? Just saying. So I think Cloud and Tifa were the canon couple all along.
Besides, are you really going to take Zack’s true love away from him? That’s messed up… ;(
Long paragraph is loooong.
– “The makers of the Ultimania say that the date scene between Aerith and Cloud were based heavily on Cloud’s behavior–which I’m assuming means his dual personality with Zack Fair at the time. To be honest, that translation for Aerith and Cloud confused me due to the weird grammar. So I can’t really say anything about it.”
Here is the thing. The “secret date” entry is not the “Cloud and Aerith” entry. Once you keep that in mind it should become a lot clearer.
i must say….WOW 🙂
the debate is making me dizzy for an hour
i just want to say……let’s put our feelings aside and think LOGICAL first
i watched AC yesterday and it’s awesome!but people sometimes making little things such a BIG deal!
i have no doubt that cloud really cares for aerith i don’t have a doubt about that but i don’t think that cloud LOVES aerith
sure aerith loved cloud but she also wants cloud to stop blaming himself and TRY TO FORGIVE HIMSELF
if u remember the scene in AC when cloud wanted to pick-up the kids in forgotten city
cloud told aerith to “be forgiven……more than anything”<–that means cloud WANTS aerith/his sins to forgive him which in truth it's not his fault
so cloud don't see aerith more than just a friend….cloud sees aerith as the symbol of his sins,a mother figure etc (u know the drill)
i'm not against clerith fans but if people IGNORE the fact that already in front of them…..now that's WRONG
you can use your feelings for this debate too…but as u can see it's already over
i stop my babble now…lol
I completely Agree with you.
The facts are right in front of their faces and yet they ignore it.
Its Tifa cloud, and Zack Aerith…its so extremely obvious its not worth it to debate on it.
Im gunna add my little part in this. I heard somewhere that the creators of ffvii wanted to make the HW scene a little different, such as cloud and tifa leaving at slightly different times looking around nervously (ie, sexual relations) but decided not to because of the younger audience. Also cloud didnt know aeris very long and in the time he did know her he wasnt…quite himself.
I havent found anything from the LTD recently so im guessing most clerith fans have accepted it as being cannon? Please say yes for the love of god, or has there been more news from the creators saying “yes! Cloti forever!”
Im 80% cloti fan and 20% clack (because we all know zack did more than just change clouds clothes in crisis core ;))
Also if you look bck i believe cloud still showed feelings for tifa in crisis core.
Theres my part 🙂