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-   -   Kotaku Article/Video on Translations (https://thelifestream.net/oldforums/showthread.php?t=19905)

X-SOLDIER 07/31/2017 10:13 PM

Kotaku Article/Video on Translations
 
I figured that there being a spotlight on this stuff would be of interest to folk here (also maybe some thoughts and opinions)


YouTube Video


Via: http://kotaku.com/the-first-few-line...e-d-1797351693





X :neo:

Pixel 08/01/2017 01:03 AM

I love stuff like this. I doubt he'll cover npcs seeing how little he covers in this vid. The people in sector 7 and Jessie have some of the most interesting world building stuff that wasn't translated properly.

Mr. Ite 08/01/2017 01:36 AM

Awesome vid! I really hope it becomes a 940 Part series.

ForceStealer 08/01/2017 01:16 PM

Yeah I saw this yesterday, pretty cool. I do indeed hope it becomes a regular series.

X-SOLDIER 08/15/2017 12:28 AM

http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-viis...e-m-1797836407

YouTube Video


(amused that he doesn't understand "shi't")





X :neo:

Cthulhu 08/15/2017 05:34 PM

I like how he made the video exactly 13:37 long :monster:

Lex 08/15/2017 06:25 PM

I love this guy. I'm becoming so attached to his sardonic delivery :monster:

X-SOLDIER 08/30/2017 08:11 PM

YouTube Video


SHOUTOUT TO US @ 1:32!!




X :neo:

Pixel 08/30/2017 08:24 PM

. ;)

ForceStealer 08/30/2017 10:23 PM

It was great to hear the shoutout! I had to rewind when I heard it :P

Lex 08/30/2017 10:59 PM

Wooooooooooooooo that's awesome!

Pixel 08/30/2017 11:32 PM

If there are any lines you guys would like him to cover, let me know. I've been talking to him about the possible reasoning behind "this guy are sick" and other stuff he's covered here. Next vid will mostly be wall market since there's a lot of interesting cultural stuff there.

ForceStealer 08/31/2017 12:02 AM

Well we already solved the "So that's how you'll fool them" mystery, but it might go well with this. I wouldn't be surprised if he addressed it anyway though :monster:

Also flunkies. Obviously.

Theozilla 09/01/2017 12:19 AM

This video series is really interesting. I never knew the "childhood friend"/osananajimi term in the original Japanese was a much more meaningful/emotionally charged phrase with implied depth.

Also surprised that Aerith's original Japanese description of her relationship with Zack kinda implied they never had a formally established dating relationship (though the Compilation definitely reversed that notion). I wonder if the decision to revise their relationship to being more serious came about in part because Zack was one of the last characters to be created/fleshed out. If this dude plans on doing the entire game for this video series, I hope he covers the Shinra mansion flashback scenes that got added in the NA/International version of the game. I wonder if that's (the International edition additions) when Square decided to revise Zack and Aerith's relationship to having a more formalized romantic history because Zack's dialogue in the flashback seems to have him referring to Aerith as his "girl" and was initially hoping to crash at her place when they got to Midgar (unless those lines are another case of there being major mistranslation).

Shademp 09/01/2017 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theozilla (Post 761015)
Zack's dialogue in the flashback seems to have him referring to Aerith as his "girl" and was initially hoping to crash at her place when they got to Midgar (unless those lines are another case of there being major mistranslation).

I refer now to this post written by hito back in 2013.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strangelove
It was actually multiple girls he was talking about.

The English version only sounds like one person:

Zack
“I know what I'm gonna do.”
Zack
“I got a place I can crash for a while…”
Zack
“No wait, the mother lives there too.”


But the Japanese one talks about a number of girls:

ザックス
「俺はあちこちにあてがあるんだ」
"I've got people I can count all over."

ザックス
「みんなの世話んなって……」
"I'll get everyone to help me out..."

ザックス
「あ、どの女の子も親といっしょに住んでるのか……」
"Oh, does every girl live with their parents..."

Each line specifically highlight that he's talking about multiple people (the bold parts), rather than the single person he is talking about in the English script.


ForceStealer 09/01/2017 01:04 PM

Which does fit more with Aerith describing him as a bit of a playboy.

Theozilla 09/02/2017 07:56 PM

Now I am also curious if the dialogue you get with Zack's parents and Aerith in Gongaga is/was significantly different compared with the original Japanese? Especially since the English version has Zack's parents wondering if Aerith was the girlfriend Zack had written to them about 6-7 years ago and Aerith described her false hope of Zack still being alive was because he "found someone else".

EDIT:
Or perhaps the Easter egg letter in the International version of the the game is the first time they are reframed as a formal couple?
http://www.angelfire.com/super/ff7/zakletter.jpg

Also, would this mean that (besides the Ultimanias) The Maiden Who Travels the Planet (and Before Crisis?) was the first FFVII media before Crisis Core that revised/reframed Zack and Aerith's relationship as having been more serious/formally dating?

Shademp 09/02/2017 09:59 PM

For anyone not in the know, the letter from Zack to his parents can be found in the bonus disc that comes with "FFVII International", the Japanese re-release of FFVII. The letter can't be found and interacted with in the normal game. It is only there in the bonus disc.

http://i.imgur.com/B6GzGph.png

The Twilight Mexican 09/03/2017 03:33 PM

With regard to Zack's "P.S. I got a girlfriend" (P.S ガールフレンドができました) letter, there's no missing nuance I can see, either in the letter itself or the conversation with Zack's parents.

Channy 09/03/2017 08:20 PM

Wow, never heard of that letter before, thanks for bringing it up guys. Didn't realize he was a little more loose in the Jap version. Definitely enjoying these little videos.

Theozilla 09/03/2017 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Twilight Mexican (Post 761145)
With regard to Zack's "P.S. I got a girlfriend" (P.S ガールフレンドができました) letter, there's no missing nuance I can see, either in the letter itself or the conversation with Zack's parents.

Hmm, since I don't see any reason for the player to not assume that the "girlfriend" in Zack's letter and his parents's dialogue is supposed to be Aerith, would that then be an inconsistency in the writing when contrasted with the more accurate translation of Aerith's playground dialogue? Or should it be taken as evidence of Aerith's mourning process/coping with Zack's disappearance and is deliberately downplaying their relationship as part of that?

Shademp 09/03/2017 09:26 PM

My interpretation would be that while Zack and Aerith's relationship was originally more casual, Zack's playful/playboy attitude disguised his true feelings for Aerith which is then reflected in his letter to his parents. Given how confident Zack is, I can easily see him prematurely declaring Aerith "his girlfriend" even before the relationship officially reached that level. Zack would be the kind of guy to assume he had already won her over in that way.

That's one way of looking at it.

The Twilight Mexican 09/03/2017 09:36 PM

I suspect the latter, Theo. Zack found whatever their bond was worth writing home about.

There's not really an inconsistency in his behavior either. His lines in the truck don't start out as specific as the translation, no, but "Does every girl live with their parents?" is obviously still referring to Aerith. It's common in Japaense (hell, in English too) to speak in a broad sense when you're referring to someone specific.

X-SOLDIER 09/04/2017 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Channy (Post 761161)
Wow, never heard of that letter before, thanks for bringing it up guys. Didn't realize he was a little more loose in the Jap version. Definitely enjoying these little videos.

Enjoy! https://thelifestream.net/news/final...-guide-images/





X :neo:

Pixel 09/11/2017 07:08 PM

Unfortunately Kotaku only wants 2 more of these vids, so the next one will go through to the Kalm flashback. Then after that, at least up to Aerith's death. Obviously it will have to skim over a lot, but hopefully he can cover the most interesting stuff.

Lex 09/11/2017 08:54 PM

Kotaku nooooooo, make loads more >.<

ForceStealer 09/11/2017 10:17 PM

Booooooooo

Alex Strife 09/12/2017 10:32 PM

Oh c'mon!! *Rage*

ForceStealer 09/13/2017 04:57 PM

How much are they paying him for each one? :monster:

108 09/13/2017 07:43 PM

Hey hi everybody . . . it's me . . . the guy making these videos!!!!!!!

I have just finished chopping up hours and hours of footage for the fourth video (what I did was: I put a little cut on each dialogue box, so I can tab around through the script with ferocious speed).

It is true: The Management here at Kotaku just want two more videos, though they're both going to be pretty long.

So this fourth video is turning out to be sort of a nightmare! I love it. I think it is going to be almost thirty minutes long. Uh.

So it covers Wall Market, Shinra Tower, and the Kalm flashback, which are like . . . I'd have wanted to do like one twenty-minute episode about each of those :-/

I have a bunch of notes and I'm writing a script, with the goal being to record the script tomorrow and then begin laying in the footage and titles to match it.

So if there's anything in those segments that you think would be really good to cover, please let me know!! Wall Market is sort of a nightmare because it's like, I could do a whole two hours on Wall Market, though I've got to narrow it down to just a couple things. Like, I'm talking about how "Bubby" in Japanese is "bouzu". Man, I can get like five minutes out of that alone. I gotta be careful. Also I'm talking about the "protein drink set". Man, Wall Market is too full of stuff . . .

And, uh, Domino and "Hart" both having pizza-related names.

There's a lady in Shinra Tower who refers to herself as an "OL", which is translated as "secretary" in the English version, so I could talk about that . . .

There's a "XIII" as a single character in the Japanese name entry screen, just for naming Red XIII!

When Aerith says no one has ever seen Rufus "bleed or cry", in Japanese she says "I've heard he has neither blood nor tears", which is a tiny difference though I love the way it sounds.

Aerith calls Cloud "Nandemoyasan", not "bodyguard", a reference to how he had said, in the church, that he did "a little bit of everything".

In the Kalm flashback, Cloud's verb tenses keep getting weird in English . . . maybe that's not interesting, though.

Sephiroth keeps talking about "the geological stratum of 2,000 years ago", which is such a clunky phrase in English. Uh, maybe that's interesting?

At the end of the Kalm flashback, you get a "PHS", which is a type of old-school Japanese cell phone . . . I could talk about my friend who had a PHS until 2006, when I finally convinced her she to get a regular phone.

Anyway, yeah, I sure just showed up on your forum and started taking notes for my own dumb video. Uh, if anyone has any suggestions that'd be cool!!!!! Like I said, I have way too many ideas and I just gotta narrow it down to The Best Ones so that I don't go insane making a six-hour video . . .

Uh, yeah, also, hello!!!

Pixel 09/13/2017 08:06 PM

Hey Tim :D

The ortopedic underwear - Rather grown-up/sexy underwear in Tifas room. Ive seen that translated by a few people as Slightly stretched underwear. Can't find the japanese, but it uses a word that means "to make oneself seem older/taller". I guess thats where orthopedic and stretched came from.

108 09/13/2017 08:14 PM

Yeah, orthopedic underwear! Man, that's a good one. Yeah, I think I solved that mystery last night.

Oh, of course, I am also doing "That's how you'll fool them." I think the explanation is a tiny bit uninteresting (I think the translator accidentally translated one line twice and didn't translate Cloud's line "I just KNOW there's some women's clothing I need in this place!"), though it's a good time.

Ah, man, and Johnny says "Thanks for the flower, and 1 gil", which is like, he's indicating that she sold him the flower for 1 gil, which is how much she sold a flower to Cloud for. So the other guys there had to pay 300 and 500 gil, and Johnny had to pay the same as Cloud, meaning that Johnny is a cool guy. Johnny is weird, man. I could do a whole episode about the saga of Johnny. I wonder who would watch that.

Minato 09/13/2017 08:35 PM

Hey Tim, thanks for dropping in here. You're making the best Kotaku content in years!

If I could make any request it'd be about any lost nuance concerning how Cloud, Cloud/Zack, Sephiroth and Shinra guard #1, #2 refer to each other that gives us a better idea of how much a regular unit the 4 of them were.
Zack practices their signature stance "as always" with one of the MPs and Sephiroth asks Cloud what it's like coming home and offers time off to spend time with family so they seemed quite familiar with each other but Crisis Core went in a very different direction.

Pixel 09/13/2017 08:52 PM

There's a weird thing with the option for the dress. Llike shiny, soft, shimmers etc. Not sure if its interesting enough though.

「はだ触りは」
Something...
"One that feels...

    さらっとしたの
That feels clean
smooth

This will get you Cotton Dress, 1 dress point

「ひかり具合は」
And something...
"And looks..."

    きらきらしたの
shiny
shimmering

    つやつやしたの<End>
that shimmers
sleek

    さわっとしたの<End>
That feels soft
tight

「ひかり具合は」
And something...
"And looks..."

    きらきらしたの
shiny
shimmering

This will get you Satin Dress, 3 dress points
    つやつやしたの<End>
that shimmers
sleek


Other stuff that might not be interesting enough to make the cut.

「『男男男』とかいう看板を出しとる
 ジムがあるじゃろ?
 そこに、あんたと同じ趣味の人がいるんじゃ。
 彼に相談してみるとよいじゃろう」<End>
You know the gym? You'll find a lot of people there like you. Go and talk to them.
Should be like "Have you seen the sign for the gym, "Man Man Man"? The guys there are into to same stuff as you. You should try talkin’ to them."

「……同じ趣味?
 AERITH、親父さんに
 どんな説明をしたんだ?」<End>
...'like you'? Aeris, what did you tell him?
Cloud "...The same stuff? Aerith, what exactly did you tell him?"

「ドン・コルネオは有名な独身貴族。
 そろそろ身をかためるってんで
 おヨメさんさがしに熱心でねえ」
Corneo is described as a famous dilettante. Not sure thats the right word. Its more like "Don Corneo's a well-known, affluent bachelor. But now he want's to establish himself, so he's keen to find himself a bride."

「いらっしゃい!!
 もてない君でも、ここ蜜蜂の館でなら
 運命の彼女に出会えるはず!!」
Welcome!! Even unpopular dweebs, like you, may meet their destiny here!!
Should be something like "Welcome!! Even a no-hoper like you can meet your soulmate here at the Honeybee Inn!!"

「わしは男物の服は作らんのだが?
 それに、あまり気乗りがせんしな」
I don't make men's clothes. And I don't feel like makin' anything right now.
Should be something like “I do make clothes, but you know I don't make men's stuff, right? Besides, I got better things to do."

108 09/13/2017 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixel (Post 762174)
「『男男男』とかいう看板を出しとる
 ジムがあるじゃろ?
 そこに、あんたと同じ趣味の人がいるんじゃ。
 彼に相談してみるとよいじゃろう」<End>
You know the gym? You'll find a lot of people there like you. Go and talk to them.
Should be like "Have you seen the sign for the gym, "Man Man Man"? The guys there are into to same stuff as you. You should try talkiní to them."

Ah, hey, yeah, I'll cover the 男男男 part -- my argument is that the dressmaker is referring to exactly one person -- Big Bro! The other guys in the gym aren't necessarily Like Cloud. That's how I read the Japanese, anyway . . .

And heck yeah on the group dynamics. I gotta say, the very first time I played this game (in 1997, lol) I sure didn't pick up on Cloud's motion-sickness. I'll scrutinize the opening of the Kalm part again, though yeah, Cloud-Zack seems very, very friendly with Soldier-Cloud in Japanese -- I'll check to see how much MORE friendly he is than in the English version.

108 09/13/2017 09:12 PM

I am having such a good time researching the video . . . like, in Japanese, the 200-gil item in the vending machine is "Kiaijuuten Gold drink set". Kiai juuten sorta means "Energy recharging", though like, if you Google-image-search 気合充填 (which I take it is supposed to be an in-world brand-name of some sort, similar to many real-world Japanese convenience store energy drinks), you get, uh sort of a bunch of weird assorted gibberish. I love it. Try it out.

I'm guessing it's supposed to be some kind of an aphrodisiac beverage, the likes of which actually exist all over Asia.

Oh, also, the guy outside the inn says "we have a beautiful room", which is sorta wrong. He says "きれいな部屋" in Japanese. That kinda just means "our rooms are clean". I'm pretty sure that's what he'd be advertising. He would not be overselling it as "beautiful". People in that slum just want a place to be clean, yeah?

Uhhhhhhhh yeah I'm spoilering my whole video here huh

108 09/13/2017 09:40 PM

Whoa, I just did another pass of note-taking, and I noticed that the dialogue when Tifa is injured in the reactor scene is super-ambiguous, owing to Japanese pronoun rules. She doesn't say "You came for me like you promised"; she says "[no pronoun] promised me [no pronoun] would come to help me when i was in a pinch". So it's super-open-ended whether she said that to Cloud or to Zack. Neat stuff!!!

X-SOLDIER 09/13/2017 09:59 PM

This is all SUPER interesting stuff! Thanks a ton for sharing it as you're going through.

Additionally, I added the URL back into your previous post for you & updated your usergroup, so that you should be able to post links and things without any issue now (since some of it was getting caught by spambot filtering since your account is still new).





X :neo:

ForceStealer 09/13/2017 10:10 PM

Welcome! And yeah these videos are awesome. Also I never thought about the pizza-themed names...clever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 108 (Post 762169)
Ah, man, and Johnny says "Thanks for the flower, and 1 gil", which is like, he's indicating that she sold him the flower for 1 gil, which is how much she sold a flower to Cloud for. So the other guys there had to pay 300 and 500 gil, and Johnny had to pay the same as Cloud, meaning that Johnny is a cool guy.

I always read the English line as, while she charged exorbitant prices to the other guys, she gave Johnny a flower AND 1 gil, because he's that pathetic. But that probably makes more sense :P

The Twilight Mexican 09/13/2017 10:19 PM

Thanks for dropping by here. I say make your videos as long as you want, and if Kotaku doesn't want all of it, we'll be happy to promote the rest.

Lex 09/13/2017 11:43 PM

Or host it! :D

Welcome to the board - as you can probably tell by the posts in this thread, we're really enjoying this series. While we've discussed the translation and its nuances before, your videos really offer something unique in how you're applying the perspective of specific parts of Japanese culture which really give them context they lack in English (an example I'm thinking of is when you explained the "specific type of creep" (grabber) in an earlier video). Much appreciated.

Wall Market, Shinra HQ and the Kalm Flashback are all pretty iconic so in terms of general interest even from people who like VII a bit more casually than most I don't think you can go wrong with what you choose to cover in the next video. I'm looking forward to it regardless of what you choose to focus on :)

With that in mind you are very welcome here, and I hope you'll stick around to post and join in on some of the VII discussions if you feel like it!

Pixel 09/14/2017 12:05 AM

Oh yeah, the guy outside honey bee with spiky hair. Probably not interesting enough to make the cut, but seemed odd
「あんだよ!! てめー!!
 みせもんじゃねえぞ!!
 オレは、いまいそがしいんだよ!!」<New>
What the hell!! You *%^&!! This ain't no #$*&^% show!! I'm busy right now!!
「ビンビンに感じてんだよ!!
 戦いの予感ってやつをよ!!」<End>
I'm feelin' like there's gonna be a fight!!
Something like “Tough guy, ey!? Looks like we’ve got ourselves some competition!!”

Flare 09/14/2017 03:50 AM

So I never actually watched these til now, and I must say, 108 you sure do know how to make translating dialogue into very amusing videos, I frickin' love your voice :awesome:
Just generally fun and interesting videos to watch, I'm looking forward to more! Thanks for creating these ^_^

108 09/14/2017 08:36 PM

Hey buds! I'm back. I wanted to ask permission to use this image

https://thelifestream.net/wp-content...cunderwear.jpg

I think I nailed the orthopedic underwear segment!! It's got a good joke. The script is done and I'm going to edit the video all night. I thank you guys twice in there!!

Judging by the script, this video is going to be about thirty minutes long . . . heh yeahhhHHHHHHHHHHH I think the ending is straight-up hilarious. I am excited to record the voiceover . . . I am going to give myself a little bit of distance before I do so, because once the recording begins, I'll go into Finish It Now Mode.

Man, I really wish I coulda done a video each on Wall Market, Shinra, and Kalm.

I am gonna do a two-hour livestream *just* going through Wall Market in Japanese. So that's gonna be fun!!! I might do that the week after next.

Pixel 09/14/2017 08:41 PM

Help yourself to any images or resources hosted here.

Can't wait for this. And hopefully Im not working when you do the livestream. Otherwise Im sure I'll catch the archive version, if there is one.

f a n c y 09/14/2017 08:45 PM

*Starts up 108 Harem Fanclub* :megusta:

Ah! As Flare said, I’ve only just gotten around to watching this series and just those three videos released has gushing with fandom feels and good vibes. This is so, so cool! I think my favourite bit has been the unveiling of the depth that each Japanese dialogue gives these characters, especially to someone like Barret, who comes across as a much more chil, hardened, cool guy with his Japanese dialogue. That difference between him saying, “Stop actin’ like a damn kid. Si’down an’ shu’up! And, ”You are not a child. Be cool.” for example. Just ah! Learning that gives me all the chills and thrills. Dunno, you just get the sense of someone who has been through the ropes and is a little tired, but pushes on because this is what he HAS to do for the Planet. Even more so than with his English dialogue. Love it!

Count me as another fan of your voice delivery in these vids xD. Even reading your little musings via the posts you’ve made in this thread has been exciting/eye opening.

Anyway, I’ll stop gushing all over you now, lmao. I do hope you consider letting the TLS host/promote more of this series because what I’ve seen so far has made my whole week. Kudos! :glomp:

X-SOLDIER 09/14/2017 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 108 (Post 762284)
Hey buds! I'm back. I wanted to ask permission to use this image

https://thelifestream.net/wp-content...cunderwear.jpg

I think I nailed the orthopedic underwear segment!! It's got a good joke. The script is done and I'm going to edit the video all night. I thank you guys twice in there!!

I'm the one who took that image, so please go for it. The same goes for any of those images that you like. I'm just absolutely glad that the cache of screenshots that I pulled from the 4th disc so many years back is finally gonna make its way into something bigger. :D

I can't wait to see how this is gonna turn out.





X :neo:

X-SOLDIER 09/19/2017 06:23 PM

Latest update: https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-vii...s-a-1818548230

(On a non-YouTube video player, so I can't embed this one)




X :neo:

Fangu 09/19/2017 06:54 PM

I have to say, I nerdgasmd all over these videos because as someone (well close to) bilingual, I know how translation isn't really as much about language, but culture. These videos are gems, because you rarely see 'translation' analysis of this depth, or, well, at least not in my corners of the Internet :P

Really looking forward to watching the next one, thanks X!

Pixel 09/19/2017 07:04 PM

Glad they split it so Wall Market gets it's own episode.

X-SOLDIER 09/19/2017 08:16 PM

YouTube Video


Embeddable version, fgj. :awesomonster:





X :neo:

ForceStealer 09/19/2017 10:28 PM

Super interesting as before. I don't want them to stop

BforBrigitta 09/20/2017 12:01 PM

Amazing, I had obviously never played the game in Japanese and I'm so surprised as to how much more fleshed out the characters are through their dialogue alone. I struggled to gauge their characters while playing the game and I thought it was just because the graphics were limited and we only had the text to work with. Turns out the original text was fairly revealing as it was. I am loving this series and Tim's sardonic delivery is the cherry on top.

Pixel 09/29/2017 06:28 PM

Tim and Jason Schreier will be streaming Wall Market at 4pm eastern
https://twitter.com/108/status/913824596025073664

Lex 09/29/2017 07:05 PM

I require a link. YouTube? Twitch? D:

Pixel 09/29/2017 08:12 PM

Facebook gogogo!
https://www.facebook.com/kotaku/

Fangu 09/30/2017 06:11 AM

Direct link: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...d=273824104039

Go like it people, 500 likes and they said they'd do another ;)

Pixel 09/30/2017 07:48 AM

I love this so much. I hope the remake captures Aerith's characterisation without her turning into Vanille. They talk about how much more impactful her death would be if they captured the nuances of her character.

108 10/02/2017 07:09 PM

I got a new one!

https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-vii...sla-1819070073

And youtube!

YouTube Video


I am starting to get sort of a critical mass of "You didn't cover this part!" messages and comments . . . oh no . . . I wish I could just play the game super-slowly and translate like every line! Though I guess I have, uh, day-jobby stuff to do over here at Kotaku as well lol

We do wanna do another stream, though! So maybe we will! Heck, I hope we do.

Fangu 10/02/2017 07:11 PM

Yass! DO EET!

PS, is your old Twitch account still around? And/ or did you save the vods to a different site? I'd love to check them out.


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