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-   -   Question about Genesis and Tifa (https://thelifestream.net/oldforums/showthread.php?t=19996)

Cat Rage Room 09/16/2017 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Stark (Post 762513)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat Rage Room (Post 762511)
Quote:

Genesis is the most powerful being left on the Planet and personally started a solo war against the Shinra that sprawled the entire world. He's on a completely different level from either versions of AVALANCHE.
So is that a guy you're trying to fight?

Your best chances of taking him down are in Deepground, but you prefer to keep all of them tucked away in Deepground for good reasons. Genesis, out there on his own devices might decided to go topside where they don't like deploying Deepground. So unless there was some reason they knew Genesis would underground that seems like a timesensitive issue they'd wanna get on ASAP.

We're speculating because we're not really sure of Genesis level of strength relative to Deepground's, but generally (and I feel comfortable saying this as an actual representative of a military), military forces, at least smart military forces, aren't in the business of getting into fights that they can't win.

If it was determined that engaging Genesis would lead to a certain level of casualties or damage that would disrupt their greater strategy (or would generally be unacceptable), then I can absolutely seeing them letting him walk away, if only to plan something else later on.

Going "oh well the answer's no Genesis? prepare to fite" and then getting murderized by Genesis immediately afterwards as a result is not a smart move.

Minato 09/16/2017 08:09 PM

They didn't make the "smart move" and leave Sephiroth to his own devices after he left Midgar either.

Cat Rage Room 09/16/2017 08:12 PM

If anything that only helps my argument, that was before Genesis; couldn't they have learned from that very stupid and very fatal mistake?

Minato 09/16/2017 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat Rage Room (Post 762517)
If anything that only helps my argument, that was before Genesis; couldn't they have learned from that very stupid and very fatal mistake?

That was after Genesis. It goes Nero and Weiss retrieve Genesis, Genesis is brought to their slave society underneath Midgar, Genesis politey declines to be part of the Deepground is and leaves peacefully, Sephiroth kills the President and the chase for Sephiroth begins.

Cat Rage Room 09/16/2017 08:22 PM

Ah, my mistake.

Alright, I'm gong to level with you; I'm making the most sense by using the simplest rationale (as per Occams Razor) for a situation that honestly, wasn't really well written or conceived in the first place.

I definitely wouldn't give the writing associated with Genesis (or Deepground, or DoC as a whole and CC to a less extent) the same levity and thought I'd give to say, J.E. Sawyer's incredibly meticulous care and respect he gave when writing Fallout: New Vegas.

It's much, much more reasonable in my mind to just assume that Genesis wasn't worth the trouble to fight at that time than to leave it up to the birds, or worse, come up with a much more convoluted answer.

jazzflower92 09/16/2017 08:41 PM

I have to say they should never had created Genesis and just focused on the character of Angeal. He has more potential as a tragic character than Genesis ever did.

Minato 09/16/2017 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzflower92 (Post 762521)
I have to say they should never had created Genesis and just focused on the character of Angeal. He has more potential as a tragic character than Genesis ever did.

i always left that Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud seemed like main character material personally.

The Twilight Mexican 09/16/2017 08:50 PM

One really has to wonder what the plan was for Genesis. For whatever reason, they wanted him brought in alive rather than executed, and lost a golden opportunity when he was left unconscious in Banora.

Minato 09/16/2017 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Twilight Mexican (Post 762523)
One really has to wonder what the plan was for Genesis. For whatever reason, they wanted him brought in alive rather than executed, and lost a golden opportunity when he was left unconscious in Banora.

I can quite see how Shinra might want to capitalise on Genesis having been left defeated but alive by Zack and bring him to Deepground, put a chip on him and get him back under control. And then Weiss and Nero then woke him up before they had a chance to to ask him to join their revolution which Genesis declined. The next step where Shinra Inc is convinced the Genesis matter is over and settled is a mystery to me.

demonwolf 09/16/2017 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Stark (Post 762523)
The next step where Shinra Inc is convinced the Genesis matter is over and settled is a mystery to me.

I like the idea that he's woken up before a chip can be planted.

They might not have thought the the matter is settled, though. Assuming Genesis already went into hibernation, they prolly couldn't find him and decided to move on with other things while still keeping him in mind. And as suggested before, they might not have had a lot of time between Genesis's sleep and Sephiroth's return.

Some hints of their search for Genesis might have been in the OG had he had, yknow, existed at all by the time they were making FF7.

LicoriceAllsorts 09/16/2017 11:01 PM

Do "they" actually have these control chips of which you speak?

Do those poor sods in Deepground have Jenova DNA in them too, or have they been superpowered in some other way?

Maybe "they" determined Genesis was in an irreversible coma and decided to leave him to rot?

demonwolf 09/16/2017 11:16 PM

Well I'm not exactly expert in DoC knowledge either (what am i saying I'm not expert in anything) but I thought some form of theoretical 'absolute' control is the basis for the Restrictors. And I just kinda went along with the chip thing since it was mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread.

I think I read somewhere (yes again with this source amnesia crap from me:awesome:) that Tsviets are spliced with Genesis's DNA? And Genesis is like...less part-Jenova than Sephiroth is.


Quote:

Originally Posted by LicoriceAllsorts (Post 762534)
Maybe "they" determined Genesis was in an irreversible coma and decided to leave him to rot?

I thought this was also a possiblity. But then everyone started discussing in terms that he 'refused' the offer to join the Deepground coup, so I thought whether he was awake or not was never a debate.

LicoriceAllsorts 09/16/2017 11:28 PM

OK - bearing in my mind that I know nothing about DoC timeline.... How can the Tseviets be sent out to hunt Genesis if they are made from his DNA? If they are made from his DNA it stands to reason that the people who made them must have had Genesis in order to extract the DNA. So were they made before he went AWOL at the beginning of Crisis Core or were they made after he was recaptured at the end? Because if it was the latter, then they couldn't have been sent to hunt him down because they didn't yet exist, and if it was the former...

Well I am just mystified how anyone at Shinra could have thought it was a good idea to create a hidden army of supersoldiers from the DNA of a degrading renegrade. Not even Hojo would have done that. It's so many degrees of stupid I can't even

demonwolf 09/16/2017 11:38 PM

I still need somebody to fact check me on the Genesis/Jenova DNA thing so I can't argue against how stupid it is, haha, only for.

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I stop to wonder why I try to make sense of something even though I don't really get anything out of it once it's made sense of. Meanwhile, the corporate that churned out this confusing something already made millions from it.
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BTT, I think the Tsviet is already there before Genesis went rogue. So if they're really spliced with his DNA then it was because ShinRa never knew he was gon be defective.

Obsidian Fire 09/16/2017 11:46 PM

It's a bit inaccurate to say the Genesis is less part-Jenova then Sephiroth is. Most of that is based whatever inaccurate ideas Shinra had about what Jenova actually was all the way back before they even knew she wasn't a Cetra. All that basically means is that when Genesis was born, Shinra didn't think he had whatever they were looking for, so they gave him up to be adopted. Sephiroth, however did, so they kept him as an experiment. Genesis, Angeal and Sephiroth all have different Jenova-traits, it's just that Sephiroth's were the ones that were found out about first.

What can be said is that the way Jenova-cells were introduced to Genesis were different then the way they were introduced to Sephiroth, so that's probably where at least some of the difference comes from.

As for how the different ways they got them... Sephiroth's J-cells come from those Lucrecia was given before/during the time she was pregnant with him. Angeal's come from the cells Gillian had (after everyone in Shinra thought Gillian's experiment was a failure). Genesis had Gilllian's genes spliced into his while he was in a test-tube. He's arguably the one with the most "proactive" use of Jenova's copying abilities though. He's also the one who's DNA breaks down the fastest, which is the main thing he gets "healed" from by the goddess.

The relationship the Tsviets and Genesis have is really murky. Sometime after Genesis was born, someone in Shinra realized his cells did have something going on with them and spliced his DNA into that of the Tsviets. So the Tsviets themselves have never been exposed to Jenova cells (that's what the whole "pure" thing is about). They just have some very mutated human DNA added to them.

As for why DG wants Genesis... there's a big difference between having the DNA of something vs haveing the acutal thing. Also, Genesis just got the one big flaw in his DNA (the degradation) fixed. So I could see someone wanting to see what the differences are.


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