I'm afraid they don't. But they have wings, and apparently that's good enough!

Let me rephrase this: "At most of the other forums I go too, such blatant flaming of the staff would result simply in a ban, count your blessings, children."

I never said ACF. 'This community' hardly comprises that site, and that's not where several of us know him from. I myself know him from other forums where he was a refreshing breath of fresh air of sanity and reason.

Who, specifically, asked for a staff position? And Vendel and Alex have expressed their desire on multiple occasions, serious or not.

Addendum: No one's familiar with Emo duck? Kind of surprising.

blessings? LOL
You guys are so silly.

I'll leave you with this gem. BECAUSE YOU SIR ARE A REFRESHING BREATH OF FRESH AIR.

Please, point out this "blatant flaming." I see honest criticism.

Other forums that this forum isn't even a spinoff of count as "this community"? You have a really liberal view of what constitutes "this community," which seems to differ vastly from what most of the actual posters here seem to view it as.

M.O.G., ForceStealer, I'm sure there are plenty of others but it's been too long for me to remember now. The staff asked who wanted to moderate and appointed whoever responded affirmatively. Basically most of the people who have been on staff from the beginning asked to be appointed. I'd say all but there may have been one or two whom Yop appointed without asking them.

:kermit: Oh dear

Oh dear is right Alex, quit begging for modship!

I ended up googling it and apparently it has something to do with Naruto. And no sir, I am not faggoty enough to watch Naruto.

Also I'd like to point out that at most other forums it wouldn't have taken twelve pages for someone even to pretend to respond to the query of why a person was appointed as a mod, so if you wonder why alleged "blatant flaming" might be occurring here, that's a good place to start.

As fun as this discussion is, though, I'm headed out for a walk. I may come back to point and laugh later.

P&L'ing for the whole class, imo.

I've never heard of the emo duck..because I, like Luna up thar, do not watch Naruto (as it is a shit stain on society). I have heard of the Emo Emu, however.

http://cube3.files.wordpress.com/200...ueandsweep.jpg

whoa whoa

Let's get a few things straight here peeps. I do NOT want a mod position here. If I was asked, I'd turn it down. The staff here doesn't moderator the way I'm used to. I would probably just end up being frustrated and, most importantly, I do NOT like the double standards that apply.

Let me point something else out, there's been countless times I've agreed with the... well the Koolaid club or whatever they are. In fact I think this is the first time I've actually argued with them. I agree with them on a lot of things. The staff here does need some work but I honestly think it was a step in the right direction to appoint Tres. Tres is also a good friend of mine and I didn't want to see him receive such ridiculous criticism when he's not even given a chance.

I just don't see the point in constantly complaining in public. It's not done anything thus far except cause drama (if you wanna call it that) So maybe you should try something else... I dunno, maybe lead by example. That's a good way to do things.

So yeah, Tres he's cool I like him, he'll make a good mod. I am not brown nosing to become a staff member, I'm standing up for a friend because... well I guess I do that a lot. (seriously. How many times have I stood up for Anastar over here?)

I see some honest criticism, and then I see stuff that I know would be begging for punishment elsewhere.

This community, as in the FF fandom community, and specifically several sites, among which , yes, includes ACF, but a number of others too. A community is a coalition of people, not a geographic or 'e-ographic location.

That's a different circumstance. If the admin asks for volunteers is one thing, but otherwise going 'Can I be a mod' means you won't be.

It predates Naruto, but yes, it got used to mock its characters too.

Four pages.
http://thelifestream.net/forums/show...7&postcount=48

Please bring more constructive discussion, if you please.

Again, it predates Naruto.

And Alex, if Quex counts as asking for a modhood, you do too.

Thats ridiculous but okay. We're living up to expectations here.

I asked for examples. You provided none. And "stuff that I know would be begging for punishment elsewhere" is extremely vague because there are some boards that don't tolerate dissent at all. In your original post you specifically said "blatant flaming." You have shifted the goalposts.

Sorry but no, not all FF sites are the same, and considering all Final Fantasy sites as "this community" is utterly absurd. Most people here aren't going to know anything about other Final Fantasy sites and expecting them to base their impressions of a new staff member on their conduct at other sites is ridiculous.

The whole point is that when a staff is mostly made up of people who are only staff because they asked to be, they don't really have much room to put other people down for acting like they want to be staff. And I haven't seen anyone going "Can I be a mod." Except for Vendel, which I'm sure you took as seriously as I did.

Sorry but no, that doesn't explain at all why he's suited to be a mod. It explains why he's suited to be site staff. None of the characteristics Mako listed there have anything to do with one's ability to moderate a message board.

I'm sorry but are you attempting to imply that the criticism thus far hasn't been constructive? For someone who has just criticised others' actions as being "blatant flaming," then refused to point out any examples, that's rather insulting.

There are... a lot of members like that to be fair. And I don't think you need to necessarily love Final Fantasy/Know Japanese to be Mod/Admin. No offense to Tres... but I think there are people more deserving of his spot... you know? I see him posting a few times in pretty much the same section. . . Again, I'm not trying to take a stab at him- I think he's great. But it's still random. I like the Staff here- a lot. c: I didn't have many complaints for the official complaint thread. I really do just agree with the majority here that this seems out of the blue. Like Road (was that who?) said, 127 or whatever posts he has isn't really... enough.

LOL. Alex posts a good amount, and his posts are pretty much awesome when he does. But I REALLY don't see Tres post often enough in more than the FF topics to be considered an Admin/Mod. The posts he does make are good, yeah, but I need to see more of them to really be convinced. Like I said, some people have been here for like, ever and have deserved the spot more than he does, imho.

Then... biased much?

Well, it just seemed random to me. Read above, I guess. xD It's nice to have you actually explain it, though. I think knowledge of Japanese is kind of a lame reason... but of course, that helps with the obvious- translations. I just think there are a lot of 'level-headed' members that are saying that they are willing to work hard, contribute, and have been posting for ages and then suddenly Tres is modded? It seemed just kind of out there to me. I do see him post, just not that much. I haven't been here recently though, so has he been posting tons on the past like two or three days? :awesome: I look in pretty much all of the sections, even Graphics and Roleplay , though I don't participate them. (They're fun to vote in and to read) so... Well, I think it would be nice to have a Mod that didn't just hang around in one section.

Yeah, Tenny for the win! Her posts are great, she's super sweet and intelligent, AND she posts in a lot of sections and frequently. She's been here for quite awhile too! That would have been an excellent choice, and not random at all.

For the record, I think it's worth pointing out/reiterating that I don't think anybody wants to personally attack or go after Tres. I'm sure he is a great guy and will make a good moderator. People's issues just seem to be with why and how this decision came about. Since I don't know him personally and he could very well be a nice guy, I just wanted to point this out.

Yeah I think I've only ever even seen Tres post in one thread other than this one so none of my posts here have anything to do with whether he'll be a capable staff member or not. I'm just utterly baffled at how staff came up with this selection, especially since there are plenty of other people who've been members of this board for vastly longer who have demonstrated the level head and ability to deal with members fairly that staffing a message board demands and post frequently outside the Final Fantasy sections. My issue is that staff picked someone most of the board doesn't even know who has less than 200 posts, while the highest poster by contrast has upwards of ten thousand. (Among veterans who are currently active I think Tennyo, Celes and Ninira all would've been worthy choices, and I'm sure I could come up with more if I bothered to think more than a few seconds)

You speak as if that were the only prerequisite evaluated. Considering the fact we wanted to find someone who would be more than capable of filling the qualifications, skills, and posting ability of the mod before (i.e. Schala) Tres was the member who fit the bill, while also exhibiting those traits in the first place. That was our decision and reasoning for doing it. Again, how does finding another individual who had the same qualifications, skills, positive attitude, and experience random?



Because its not just about post count when evaluating who can and can't be a mod. It's about quality, experience, and who the actual member is. I'd like to know where there was ever a post count requirement stated in regards to who got to be a mod here? And I didn't know we had people who deserved and were entitled to be a mod. I must've missed something.




Well thanks but that's your opinion. If we're looking for a member to fill the specific hole left behind by a previous staffer, and we find an experienced member who fills that space in every conceivable way possible and is qualified, then we're not going to let nepotism and popularity stop the person who's more qualified and the better choice stop us. That's the whole point of us exercising our judgment in the first place and evaluating how he works out.



She is an awesome member, and I don't disagree with that at all. But she wasn't the choice for filling in the hole we were looking to fill. That's your opinion and this was ours and the choice we made.

That's true, but you have to agree those qualities mean that person can be a good mod, right?

Well I wasn't saying the Japanese thing... they have Ryu for that anyway :monster:

Well I think if you were going to go with a mod who had those qualifications that they mentioned, and the choice was one who didn't know FF very much andone who DID know FF very well, I'd pick the one who knows FF and posts in the FF sections.

But since when is high post count a qualification of being a mod?... I'd rather have a good mod with a low post count. And again it'd make sense to me to go with someone who worked in the FF section more than someone who didn't. High post count does not mean quality posts.

Maybe there would have been a ton of better choices, but I certainly don't think Tres would be the worst choice. And I do have to wonder, if they picked Tenyo, would people still be complaining?

I see a lot of repetition. And that's all.

Heh I was making my post around the same time Mako was... I'll probably just let him handle it anyway.

Probably because there's nothing else to it. What do you think happened in terms of us appointing him? You think he bribed us with hookers and Colombian blow, so that he could turn this entire site into a George W. Bush Sr. shrine, and then sell it to Rupert Murdock for some quick cash so he can move to Costa Rica and start a diet pill pyramid scheme?

No, I'm talking about in general. Everyone on staff keeps reiterating the same condescending bullshit.

@Mako - maybe not that, but I do think he sucked some cock.

I know, I know. Quality over quantity and all that, but this is how it seems random. There are people who have been here for a long time who are JUST as good as Tres (perhaps even better), and then for members to log on and just see "Oh hay Tres is a Mod guys!!"--- it just seems like a random selection, okay? :loopy: There are plenty of others with skills and positive attitudes and yet he, who is new to the site, is selected after only making 127 posts? That just doesn't make sense to me. Just because you know someone, doesn't mean they should automatically be made a Mod. Like... what about Aaron for instance? Tenny, like I said? What's wrong with them? Why does Tres post an essay or two, and just WIN? It's the fact that not a lot of members know him like you guys do, so they're kind of wondering who he is. Maybe if he had been here for more than a month or two (I could be exaggerating I'm not sure), members could have gotten to know him better so that the Mod isn't a mystery. O.o

Well yeah, of course it's my opinion! And I'm not trying to say Tres is a bad choice, or that he won't be a great Mod. I'm just wondering why him over other members who have been here longer, and have proven their worth more than enough times that he is selected out of them? I respect the choice that was made, because Tres isn't a bad guy. I don't think he will do terrible, either. I just think it makes more sense to choose someone that members are familiar with, and have suggested themselves. It's not like members are stupid simply because they aren't Staff. :c

I don't think ANYONE would be opposed to Tennyo. She's great.

Hehe...that sounds dirty :awesome:


Anyways I have to agree that Tres was a good choice, from what I've seen he's intelligent, polite and highly knowledgeable concerning FF7. Only flaw is I remember him saying he wouldnt mind a Denzel game which of course is herasy in these here parts. :monster:

To think we'd take some guy off the street and appoint them as a mod, seems a bit ridiculous. I don't get why it's hard to understand we exercised our judgment in terms of finding someone to fill in the shoes left behind by a previous mod, and our choice was this member.

Because moderator appointment isn't a matter of entitlement, post count, or popularity. I don't understand how that would even be seen as fair. That's not how we even do things, especially if we're looking for another mod to fill in the spot another mod left behind. If we want someone to fill in the skills and shoes left behind by one staff member, we're gonna go for someone who meets the bill, regardless of if they're popular, have a post count above 1,000, or not.

Stop right there. The essays were not the deciding factor, and it'd be nice if you would stop bringing them up. It's been repeated numerous times all the way on the fourth page that was only part of the reason. Being a moderator isn't an entitlement. You've just refuted your own point. Just because you know someone, or they're popular, doesn't mean they should automatically be made a mod. We made our decision in terms of who we wanted it to be based on our criteria. We never made it about post count or popularity.



I'll repeat the reason why then:


So there's the reason, in a nutshell.

In my case it does, thats why I have so many thanks.

I'm not going to address you entire post since it's all been addressed all ready but

It wasn't a contest XD
and people REALLY need to stop thinking his essays were why he was modded.

And I do agree that Tenyo or Aaron would have made good mods, but they didn't get the job. Tres did :P And that's... really all there is to it :(

No one complained when I modded him at TNC... of course I only had like 5 people to choose from :monster:

Obviously we're proposing a popularity contest guys, let's get down to it!

@Aaron: You took a facetious rephrase a bit too literally, but yes, there have been numerous posts that have been said here, that elsewhere would be seen as blatant flames and grounds for suspension and banning.

And fresh out of the oven, this lovely example.

I mean, if you people WANT us to be more heavy handed, I can go infract most of those, and you can complain about the tyranny instead for a change.

MASSIVE EGO BOOST IS GO.

btw, none of those are flames. Good job :monster:

You know, considering you just insulted a mod you don't even know and who hasn't even done anything to you, you should probably quit spamming and trying to be antagonistic.

It wasn't an insult. You're all reading between the lines when there aren't any words to read there.

And it appears that I'm succeeding at being antagonistic, there's no cause to say I'm 'trying' anymore.

It's pretty damn insulting to insinuate he preformed fellatio for his moderating position. Regardless of if you meant it literally or not, the unwarranted connotation that he isn't qualified next to such an insulting and vulgar statement, is pretty well...insulting. :monster:

That's because TNC has the most random fucking Mods that make no sense at all. . . That, and no-one cares about TNC, lol.

You're a good Mod though there, Quexi. You're like the only one who DOES anything there. I've said this before.

Mako, my point was NEVER that high post counts = istant Mod. My point is that the members don't know Tres well, and that Members who have been here longer who are just as good, weren't chosen. I was wondering why, that's ALL. I never meant that someone with over 9,000 posts should be Admin. Because then you'd have to Mod Ali and she never posts anything anymore. The point is that 127 posts suggests that he hasn't been here that long- and he hasn't. You guys know him and that's cool (I've only heard stories and he seems pretty nice from the posts I've seen), but the members don't seem to. That's why it seems random to a lot of us. I never said it was a contest either, maybe I shouldn't have said "WIN" but I didn't know how else to say it. x'D Just think, you've been a member here a long time, you've been told countless times that you're posts are amazing, that you should be modded, and then a new person who you've seen post a handful of times in one section after joining gets the position? Would that make sense if to you? That's what I've been trying to say.

And I've never once said he was a bad choice or that he'd do bad. In fact I keep saying that he's a great guy. The biggest thing I think, is that Staff here seems to have ignored the members of the Forum on this one. What makes Ten/Aaron/Alex/Meggy/anyone else anyone has mentioned not qualified for the spot? You haven't really answered that at all. >.<

Wow, what a roundabout way to say that it was an insult. Which is basically just a repeat performance of everything else you've said in this thread. Do I detect a pattern?

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure Tres will be great. What I'm not sure of is modding such a new member. At this point, it's like modding me. Which quite a few people would be opposed to. (amaga)

Then they can get to know him. And sorry, but modship is not an entitlement, right, or guaranteed appointment. I don't care how nice, high your post count and membership length is. That's not how it works.

It wouldn't make sense if the actual staff never said anything about the appointment, or made a statement as to when and why it happened.

Because they weren't the ones we were looking for in terms of members who's qualifications would fill in the position left behind by Schala. We wanted a member who was comparable to her previous abilities, membership, etc, to fill in that spot. There are no members who are automatically entitled to be mods. I've repeated that now 5 different times and it's as if its not even been read.

Then may I also say it doesn't matter if you're a mod or not, because you'll still have to earn my respect, or is that a bannable offense? :monster:

Why would that be a bannable offense...? That's reality. Most people operate that way (and rightfully so), so why would that be a problem?

I care :(

:D shut up! :joy: You can't make me happy by saying nice things about me! :lol: so shut up! ^_^

But anyway:
I really don't think anyone is saying you have to love the guy right now . They just want you to give him a chance :monster:

I'm sorry, I should have ended that with :hugemonster: so that it was clear I was joking.

Then you can understand when a lot of people say that they don't respect this decision. Of course there is going to be outcry.

If you don't respect the decision that's fine, and more than your right to. But if you're going to attack its validity, it'd be nice if you brought some valid reasons to the table, coupled with an understanding as to why said decision was made.

I can't understand it if the reasons you've given have been complete bullshit. Sorry, find your ass-kissing elsewhere.

Pbobos, can I ask who you would make a mod? Or in your opinion, what makes Tres NOT mod worthy? Just cause people don't know him?

More like you don't agree, and can't think of any valid reasons to bitch about it, actually. For one, I couldn't care less if you or anyone kisses my or anyone else's ass here. Number two, the fact we as staff made our choice to make him a mod based on who he was, his experience in other FF communities we've been apart of, his past postings, contributions, helpful actions for our own projects, and positive attitude is more than enough reason in our eyes to see he is qualified to be on staff and fill the vacated spot of another good staffer we had before. It hardly amounts to bullshit, and if you really can't wrap your mind around such a judgment, then I don't know what else to tell you.

If you don't agree, that's fine, and your right. But it'd be nice if you gave a valid and constructive reason for said disagreement other than popularity, entitlement, and antagonism.

It'd be nice if YOU brought valid reasons to the table. Staff have been going on about how he wasn't just modded for his knowledge of FF and Japanese, and then it comes out that the reason he was selected over Terra/Celes/Tennyo/any other well known level-headed member is because he distinguishes himself from the other candidates by knowing Japanese. Sorry, but where I come from that's known as grade-A, major-league bullshit. And as for this crap other people have spouted about members allegedly wanting staff selected based on "popularity," have you even been reading our posts? Having a rapport with members - which is completely impossible for someone who's completely unknown to over half the forums' member base - has absolutely nothing to do with popularity. It just has to do with the person being well known and not being a dick. (Which, to be fair, is a trait several previous staff members don't even have, so I can't say I'm surprised that they ignored it when looking for an addition to their ranks).

And I'm sorry, but for every post Ryu quoted as being an alleged "blatant flame", I could find a worse quote from a member of staff. Do you want me to do so? 'Cause I've got nothing to do all day tomorrow.

Wow. I didn't say TresDias wasn't mod worthy, maybe you should pay attention. In fact, maybe you should've been paying attention the whole time, since I didn't say he wouldn't make a great mod or anything of the sort. What I said was that it was out of the blue, no one knows him, and he's contributed to the site...but how does that equal mod experience? How does that equal deserving?

Popularity isn't the scope here, but you're ignoring that in favor of us turning this into a popularity contest. Which we're not, by the way. Basically, see Aaron's post.

Thanks, but we all know I won't be made a staff member because I actually call them on their bullshit. And really, even if I were offered the position I'd turn it down, because of the preponderance of said bullshit lately. I wouldn't want to represent that.

I don't know what you want us to tell you Aaron. He didn't take a test. No money changed hands, and we don't think Terra, Celes, Tennyo, or any other member here is automatically entitled to suddenly get slid into a mod position when one opens up. You're just basically saying you think X member should be mod, instead of Y, and not accepting the fact that we were looking at another member/person that could fill in said position just as well. In essence, a difference of opinion and ideals. He's just as good a contributor, can give us content, is a great person whom we've had experience and knowledge of for awhile, and a great poster. That's who we saw and felt was capable of being a mod. The end.

Good for you. I don't have any clue how that has to do with the subject at hand in this thread, but if that's how you want to fill your time arguing with Ryu, that's your prerogative.

How is it the end? Of his 155 posts, how does that make him a 'good' poster? Please explain how someone so unfamiliar to anyone besides contributing to the site (which is a separate entity to the forum in the first place,) displays all the good traits of a moderator?

...

http://www.funpiece.com/ncwtf.gif

Okay so my bad... it's not that he's not worthy... he's not deserving...
Yeah really no comment... just... wow...

And just for the record I thought Aaron did good when he was on staff. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a staff again, but I guess I was under the impression he removed himself thus didn't want to be a staff. If he's changed his mind, I wouldn't mind seeing him back. :monster:

Then give me the reason you don't agree with Tres being made a mod, that doesn't use popularity, post count, "he wrote essays, lol" and "I don't know him" as your base arguments.

I'm saying that I think someone who already has rapport with members should be a mod. How many times do we have to repeat this before it sinks in? And no, Tres can't fill in the position as well as Celes or Terra or Tennyo could, because no one knows him yet. Maybe after he's been a member for more than a couple of months and has made an appreciable amount of posts outside the number of posts he'll be a great mod. But right now, he's a completely unknown quantity.

It points out the blatant hypocrisy of staff in attacking members for conduct they routinely engage in themselves. If the quoted posts are so so severe, then you, M.O.G., Dacon, and myself should have been fired from the staff ages ago, because all of us routinely posted things that were much worse, and some of you still do.

The whole point is that hardly anyone knows him. How are you overlooking that in favor of popularity?

You truly are stupid.

She didn't say he's not deserving. She asked how he was more deserving than other candidates listed. To which staff's answer is apparently, "He knows Japanese, lol."

For the record, I don't want to join this staff. If a number of changes were made in the staff roster I might consider it, but honestly I quit from FFR where I still like everyone because I don't care about Final Fantasy enough to bother staffing a board based around it, so I probably wouldn't staff here either even if I did agree with everything the staff were doing.

Why is "I don't know him" not a valid base argument? To perform staff duties effectively, a member needs rapport with members. A two-month-old member can't just come in and hand out infractions to people who have been there since the beginning of the forum. It'd be seen as a joke and widely lambasted. If a person is to be taken seriously enforcing the rules, he already needs to be respected by the community, or else his decisions are going to be constantly questioned. Not that this staff doesn't do a good enough job getting itself questioned with the people who had already been on staff, but really, do you need to add to your work load? Seriously.

Tres has demonstrated rapport since he's been here, and more positive bonds and interactions can be established now and in the future. Do you think he's suddenly not going to post, or talk to members here now that he's not a mod now? Do you think he'll disappear from the forum and only appear to hand out warnings or bans to members? Rapport is not the only factor that establishes who can and can't be a mod here. That essentially falls under nepotism and popularity. The nice popular people here on the site who have a total of thanked posts over 1000 don't automatically get put on the fast track for mod hood. We look at the total picture of who we feel would work best within staff. If they're new, then they can learn and get acquainted. Because they're members too and every bit as part of the community as everyone else.

That was never Ryu's point in the first place. It was more along the lines of, staff were never ones to instantly ban, suspend, or be apt to hostility towards humor or criticism in the first place. But why are you having me argue Ryu's points in the first place. Take your e-argument to the person it belonged to, not me.

Sorry, I guess I just wasn't getting it through my head? :c Thanks for responding and being nice about it, but I definitely still don't agree (I agree with Aaron... I just would have said it... 'nicer'?) :monster:, but like I said before Tres isn't a bad decision- just a random one. I'm sticking by that.

So, sorry if you've already said this because I don't recall reading it, but what exactly were these... 'skills' Ms. Kitty had, that the other members don't? All you've said is that none of the members met the requirements that Tres has, but all you've said is that Tres is level-headed, has experience, etc etc that all of the other members ALSO have. What made him so perfect for the position, or is that an Admin/Mod only discussion? X_x You're fond of saying "He was chosen, so there" I noticed. I just wanted a real explaination instead of "we found him the most fitting" but I still don't see how he differs from anyone else.

lol what? Seriously, are we in third grade? :monster:

aahh well in that case, I don't have the specific answer obviously, but I am surprised so many people are objecting. I was under the impression that everyone really liked this guy...

I understand, but just wow, I think this is being blown out of proportion. It's not like Tres is the worst choice they could have made. could they have done better? Yeah probably, but they also could have done a lot worse.

So basically, if you like them, they get modded? Great, chief.

Clearly we are, if you couldn't understand my very simple post.

Way to go attacking a number of straw men. I specifically asked what made Tres more qualified than other candidates mentioned who already have rapport. You completely dodged the issue. Apparently, it's because he knows Japanese.

If you don't want me to take my e-argument to you, then don't carry it up in the first place. I respond to what's addressed to me.

No one ever argued staff were ones to instantly ban, suspend, or be apt to hostility towards humour or criticism. However, I note that no one who is currently on staff has ever expressed criticism of the staff, and I consider that to be very suspicious.