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-   -   FFVII CHARACTER SMACKDOWN - The Neutrals Championship (https://thelifestream.net/oldforums/showthread.php?t=20459)

f a n c y 05/01/2018 10:21 PM

FFVII CHARACTER SMACKDOWN - The Neutrals Championship
 
Sup? Are you ready for...?


If this is your first time hearing about 'Character Smackdown', feel free to refer to this thread here.

In short, it's my pet project where I'm attempting to put a spin on character battles done in the past in a fun and engaging way. All members are free to join and drop out at any point after a round.

The Rules•••
The gist of the game is this: you, the player, are going to be assigned to a team at random and then given a character at random. Then, using your creativity, you, along with your teammates, will present arguments as to why the character you were given would win in a theoretical fight against the opposing character.

There are going to be 55 champions, but only one can win.

For each round of the game, we're using a randomiser to pull two champions, one location (which will be the 'arena'), and split the participants into three groups: Team Chocobo, Team Moogle, and The Spectators.

Rules for Team Players
  1. Be Persuasive
    Your job is to use your creativity and argumentative skills to persuade the Spectators why the champion you were given would win in a theoretical fight—even if you happen to dislike this character. The cleverer (and funnier) the reasoning, the better.
  2. Be Creative
    Again, this is all about creativity. Take the character you were given and the character you’re up against and really consider their profession, their surroundings, how they behaved in-game, what they’re wearing—everything! Don’t be afraid to think outside of the box!
  3. Be Cooperative
    You're typically working in teams, so do try to bounce off what your teammates are saying and build on each other's arguments. If your teammate makes a totally ridiculous statement, just roll with the silliness. DO NOT bully your teammates or try to dictate their arguments.
  4. Be Reliable
    Once you've decided to be a participant, you are making a commitment to your teammates. Don't just up and disappear and leave a teammate to fend for themselves. If you want out of the game, let me know after a round is over (best time to say something is whilst the 'Spectator Voting' period is happening).

    Participants who fail to participate after 1 round will be asked if they want to remain in the game. If they say no, they will be taken out of the pool but are free to be put back in in the future if they ask. If I get no response at all from them, they will be removed from the pool, but are free to be put back in in the future if they ask. If they say yes and fail to show up the round immediately following the one they were absent in, they will be taken out of the ‘pool’, no questions asked, but are free to be put back in in the future if they ask.

  5. Be Active (or not :P)
    Every round lasts 48 hours and you can make as many posts as you'd like in this span of time in order to drive home your advocacy for your champion. Any posts made after the time limit won't be considered.
  6. Be Communicative
    After a round (during the Spectator's voting period), you can choose to opt out by clearly stating to me that you'd like to be out of the 'Pool'. Otherwise, I'll give you another role. You can jump back into the 'Pool' at any time by, again, stating that you'd like in and I'll assign you a role in the next round.
  7. Be Adaptable
    Again, after a round, you will be reshuffled into a new group and, thus, might be given new teammates.
  8. DO NOT Be A Jerk
    This is a smackdown, but the forum rules still apply. Be respectful to other members (including your teammates—don't lambast anybody for not forming an argument in the way that you'd like), don't threaten Spectators, don't use hate speech in attacking the other champion, and just, you know, don't be a dick. (I know this won't be a problem because you're all such a cool bunch but... formalities :P).


Rules for Spectators
  1. Spectate
    During the 48 hours in which a round is going on, you can watch, but...
  2. Don't Partake
    Spectators aren't allowed to make suggestions, arguments, or post anything to dictate or 'help' one team or another. You can, however, feel free to express your appreciation for a good post.
  3. Appreciate
    Which side is making the more persuasive argument? Which side has you rolling with laughter? Which side needs to get their shit together? Take it all in.
  4. Don't Hate
    Try to keep the atmosphere lighthearted and chill and don't start tearing down people in the middle of the game for making what you perceive to be a 'weak' argument. Just Don't Be That Person™. Again, at the end of the day, this is all about fun, fun, community fun.
  5. On Voting
    After the 48 hour period of the team players making their cases, Spectators are given 24 hours to cast a vote for either Team Chocobo or Team Moogle. Any vote cast after that period of time will be discounted. If all Spectators fail to vote, I'll decide the winner. If 2 of 3 Spectators fail to vote, the one spectator who did vote will decide the winner. If 1 of 3 Spectators fail to vote (assuming the 2 voting don't come to the same conclusion) I'll step in and be the third spectator.

After all the spectators have cast their vote, the winner of the round will be announced along with the new teams and new champions in a post.

Notes
  • All spectators are voluntary. The only incidence in which someone is assigned a spectator role is when no one else is volunteering to be one.
  • There only ever really needs to be 1 Spectator at any given round, but the ideal number is 3.
  • Audience members (those who have not signed up to be spectators but plan on watching anyway) are free to cast their votes in the voting period.
  • DO NOT TRY TO PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T VOLUNTEERED TO BE A PLAYER.
  • Picture are provided with locations. I tried to pick only the locations with visible items in them.
  • After each round, everyone’s reshuffled into new groups.




The Participants•••
This is everyone who’s volunteered to participate! Again, it’s never too late to join in and you always have the option of opting out (after the round is over, please. Don't leave teammates hanging—it's rude :monster:). Just please make it clear to me so I know whether or not to assign you a role after each round.
  • BforBrigitta
  • Channy
  • ChipNoir
  • Clement Rage
  • Elessar
  • Fancy - spectates when necessary
  • Joe - spectating
  • LicoriceAllsorts
  • Minato
  • Ergo Proxy (Moss)
  • Mr. Ite
  • robotwarui - spectating
  • solo player sab


The Bracket

A live bracket of the tournament is being hosted here if you're interested in keeping up with the winners and future matches!

Shoutout to Tel for putting things in the right words. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Shortcut to Battle Posts
> Set 1
> Set 2
> Set 3
  • Round 1-19
  • Round 1-20
  • Round 1-21
  • Round 1-22
  • Round 1-23
  • Round 2-1
  • Round 2-2
  • Round 2-3
  • Round 2-4


BforBrigitta 05/02/2018 12:21 PM

YouTube Video

Joe 05/02/2018 02:29 PM

me eyeing up Mr Dolphin in the bracket

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/upload...action-Gif.gif

LicoriceAllsorts 05/02/2018 03:42 PM

I made a prediction.

f a n c y 05/02/2018 08:22 PM

Hahahaha I was just reading through it. I had a similar outcome when I was fiddling with the predictions. Dunno why I hadn't saved it. :okay:

ooooohhh ooooohhh less than 24 hours 'til the first battle post is made. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

f a n c y 05/03/2018 08:00 PM

Battle Post - ROUND 1-1
 
Round 1-1

Your Teams...

https://s6.postimg.cc/6nwvfwlcx/Team_Chocobo.png

Minato
ChipNoir
BforBrigitta
Clement Rage
Elessar


https://s6.postimg.cc/p3hcdak1t/Team_Moogle.png

LicoriceAllsorts
solo player sab
Ergo Proxy
Mr. Ite
Channy


Your Champions...


https://s6.postimg.cc/8ekhv6i01/Choc...age_Driver.png VS https://s6.postimg.cc/lvhge201d/Luxiere.png


The Location...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110524013818
Cid’s House

Chocobo Carriage Driver - He steers a Chocobo-drawn carriage through the streets of Sector 6, chauffeuring eligible young women to Don Corneo…
Are you ready Team Chocobo?


Luxiere - A 2nd Class SOLDIER and one of Zack Fair’s earliest fanboys…
Are you ready Team Moogle?



The countdown begins when the first team player posts!

Minato 05/03/2018 08:09 PM

Well, looks like we've caught an easy one. :lol:

ChipNoir 05/03/2018 11:17 PM

Do not underestimate my capacity for spinning head canon and game theory. I intend to right by Team Chocobo to the bet of my abilities.

But how exactly are we supposed to confer with each other? Forgive me if this is already covered somewhere. Still balancing my last week of school, so I'm gonna be a 'little' helter skelter till after the 9th, but I'll give my input for my team!

f a n c y 05/03/2018 11:34 PM

I haven’t stated any rules about conferring with teammates! I think it might be easiest now to just message your teammates privately if that’s how you want to go about things :P

Pardon me for the weak answer LOL, this is all still very much an experiment :P :P

By the by, I know I said the countdown starts when a team member posts, but I don’t consider the 48 hour period for the battle to have started since there’s yet to be a post stating any sort of argument. :joy:

Clement Rage 05/04/2018 02:15 AM

(NOT AN ARGUMENT)

I totally thought Chocobo Carriage Driver meant the guy in the Corel Desert.

ChipNoir 05/04/2018 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clement Rage (Post 782690)
(NOT AN ARGUMENT)

I totally thought Chocobo Carriage Driver meant the guy in the Corel Desert.


Shhh. We'll discuss that in private. I have plans. :3

Mr. Ite 05/04/2018 03:25 AM

I have no idea who that is. We're gonna kick your ass.

solo player sab 05/04/2018 04:33 AM

BRUUUHHH LETS GO TEAM MOOGLE FUCK YAAA!!!!!!

Channy 05/04/2018 05:52 AM

me eyeing to steal Mr Dolphin from Joe in the bracket
https://media.giphy.com/media/Ij87d6qbAhdJe/giphy.gif


--

wooooo go Team Moogle, we got Ite, so I feel like we've already won in any respect. :monster:

f a n c y 05/04/2018 02:53 PM

Elessar has asked to join the game and, because the battle has not *technically* started, I'm putting him on Team Chocobo for an even number of five players on each team.

I'm excited to see how this turns out! Best of luck to everyone. Again, when the first argument is made, I'll make a post announcing when the 'battle' is going to be over.

Oh, and because I suspect that some folks are confused about this...

For each new round of a game, you will be put on new teams. The teammates that you have now will more than likely not be your teammates for the next battle.

In short, after each round, everyone’s reshuffled into new groups.


The reasons being:
  1. To keep things new and interesting each round.
  2. To keep teams balanced (say that, hypothetically, 4 of the 5 members on Team Chocobo decide they don't want to play anymore after a round. Welp, we have a problem, don't we? :P).
  3. To make it easier for folks to leave and join at will.
  4. To challenge you to work with different folks and their argumentative styles.
  5. Fancy said so

I don't know if this changes folks' mind about forming private chats and coming up with different strategies since you'll likely not be working with the same exact group of people again and you'd have to make new private groups for every round which seems exhausting, but I ain't about to dictate how you want to tackle this!

Hope this helps and I apologise for the mixup.

also shoutout to tel cuz i stole some of his wording (specifically, about reshuffling folks)

LicoriceAllsorts 05/04/2018 04:03 PM

If the chocobo driver isn't the guy from the desert outside Corel prison, who is he? Sorry, just re-read the explanation.

Fancy, let me get this straight. I can kick this off by posting a post explaining why Luxiere would beat chocobo driver in a fight?

f a n c y 05/04/2018 04:06 PM

He's the guy who steers the Chocobo carriage that Tifa rides to Don's place.

http://www.glitterberri.com/content/...reens/vh10.jpg

And yes! The moment that a player from either team presents an argument, I consider that the moment the 'round' has officially begun. You can try to upset any planning the other team may have by putting this pressure on them, haha.

LicoriceAllsorts 05/04/2018 04:25 PM

The thing we must never forget about Luxiere is that he's a SOLDIER 2nd class. Not everybody who tries to get into SOLDIER makes the cut (example: Cloud Strife) and not everybody who makes the cut gets promoted to 2nd. Luxiere is one of a select few.

Seconds are STRONG. I mean really superhuman. Maybe not a match for a 1st in his prime, but a more than a match for a weakened 1st, as Zack's battles with Genesis and Angeal at Modeoheim proved.

Seriously, 50 Shinra Infantrymen can't take a 2nd down, so what chance does this chocobo driver have? He's just one of Corneo's henchmen, his bones soggy from vitamin D deficiency after living so many years under the plate. He isn't even hired muscle. He drives the bird cart, for Shiva's sake! Plus, he was born with no eyes which means he can't see what he's swinging at. He won't last five seconds against the lightning reflexes and enhanced senses of our hero 2nd Class Luxiere!

f a n c y 05/04/2018 04:54 PM


What's that sound?? Sounds like SHOTS BEING FIRED!!



Let the record show that the battle phase of Round 1-1 was initiated by Team Moogle on 4th May, 15:26 GMT.

All players have until...
6th May, 15:26 GMT
...to make their cases.

Here's a link to a time zone converter in case anyone needs it.

Best of luck!


Minato 05/05/2018 05:48 AM

The 50 Shin-RA infantrymen challenge was issued to Zack Fair, who was never just any Second. Zack Fair was being trained to be First by Angeal since well before we begin Crisis Core. The entire reason Zack was issued this challenge in the first place is because he is an exceptionally industrious person who goes out of his way to help others through martial means, takes missions other SOLDIERs are too weak to handle and prides himself as being a protector of Midgar, something the Infantrymen have been given little reason to expect from SOLDIER otherwise.

And Luxiere is undoubtably the prime example of the complacent masses that depreciate the SOLDIER name, the ones that don't deign to exit their floor in Shin-RA HQ unless it is to board a helicopter to be towed to and from their assignments. He is not, as my counterpart would presume to tell you, “your hero”. Every single word out of Luxiere's mouth is either asking for leadership from Zack, expressing his admiration for his betters, lamenting how ill-equipped SOLDIER is too keep going without Lazard, until finally he asks Zack to surrender in his final message, in a last ditch effort to get through the assignment of capturing him without actually ever having to take the sword off his back.

Is this a man you'd trust to pull through when he finds himself in a one on one battle to the death in a strange environment?

Consider what he is up against. Our Chocobo Driver is always on the move as a solo operative, travelling from one corner of the monster-filled Planet to the other tearing three of the most beautiful young women in the world away from their family, friends or lovers away to be delivered as Corneo's would be bride to be every day. He is ruthless and methodical, well versed in how to intimidate someone into passivity for a long ride back to Wall Market without having to raise his hand against a pretty face to blemish it with bruises before presentation time.

This encounter places them in a stranger's home in a sudden desperate fight against an unknown assailant. This is a situation the chocobo driver has placed himself in hundreds if not thousands of time in his pursuit to find Corneo a worthy bride. Everything we know of Luxiere tells us he is a boy, who never expected to have to take care of himself in a grown-ups world.

Cid's home does not offer the standard supply of Materia that Luxiere can expect to be placed in his lunchbox at the onset of every trip out of HQ. It does however house an assault rifle and if it isn't locked and loaded already, surely ammo is stuffed somewhere in this home of a former fighter pilot. The most likely outcome of this encounter is the Chocobo Driver gunning down Luxiere who freezes up, finding himself alone and unequipped to deal with the harsh realities of what life on the Planet can be like for the unprivileged for the first time.

BforBrigitta 05/05/2018 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicoriceAllsorts (Post 782741)
The thing we must never forget about Luxiere is that he's a SOLDIER 2nd class. Not everybody who tries to get into SOLDIER makes the cut (example: Cloud Strife) and not everybody who makes the cut gets promoted to 2nd. Luxiere is one of a select few.

Seconds are STRONG. I mean really superhuman. Maybe not a match for a 1st in his prime, but a more than a match for a weakened 1st, as Zack's battles with Genesis and Angeal at Modeoheim proved.

Seriously, 50 Shinra Infantrymen can't take a 2nd down, so what chance does this chocobo driver have? He's just one of Corneo's henchmen, his bones soggy from vitamin D deficiency after living so many years under the plate. He isn't even hired muscle. He drives the bird cart, for Shiva's sake! Plus, he was born with no eyes which means he can't see what he's swinging at. He won't last five seconds against the lightning reflexes and enhanced senses of our hero 2nd Class Luxiere!

Chocobo Driver may not have eyes, but he has charisma. So much charisma, in fact, that he's become a well-connected and highly respected figure in the slums. This motherfucker, ruthless and methodical, owns the hobo network in Midgar. He knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy.

He clubs his polygonal hands together and an army of street-hardened hobos are ready to fight for him, and they do.

You cry, they ain't even in Midgar! LITTLE DO YOU KNOW, that carriage is the original tardis and can transport his minions to rock humble old Rocket Town in a jiff. The hobos swarm Luxiere, grabbing chairs, tables, the rifles in Cid's room, gas tanks, pots and pans and lunge at him with their all. The Chocobo Driver opens the door to reveal his Chocobo and it spits in Luxiere's mouth, disarming him. While he's distracted by the foul taste of masticated gysal greens and saliva in his mouth, the hobos grab him. More hobos from the midgar slum appear out of the tardis!carriage and march through the door, angry at capitalism and angry at Shinra, and Luxiere is the perfect representative. Luxiere is supremely outnumbered!

Finally, Luxiere gets his bearings for long enough to remove his helmet, spitting out the last of the Chocobo muck from his mouth. As his vision returns, his acute claustrophobia stemming from a childhood trauma that his military training couldn't quite shake off, returns as he realises the tight space he's in amongst all the clamour from the crowd of hobos that surround him and he becomes paralysed with fear as the hobos enclose on him...

*fade to black*

Background SFX: BOOM BOOM POW POW POW

Elessar 05/05/2018 07:30 AM

Evidence of Time Travel:


f a n c y 05/05/2018 04:27 PM


Friendly reminder to players that as of the 5th May, 15:27 GMT, you have less than 24 hours to sway Spectators.

Here's a link to a time zone converter in case anyone needs it.

Best of luck!


LicoriceAllsorts 05/05/2018 05:59 PM

Do any of my team-mates want to pick up this ball?

Channy 05/06/2018 05:05 AM

“I’m following you until the end!”

Those are the words of a loyal SOLDIER, not just any SOLDIER, but a 2nd Class, good friend of the legendary Zack Fair. SOLDIER are more than just corporate dogs, they’re human, born and bred on ththe battlefield and with that comes undying comroderie, fealty to your fellow man whether he is above or below you in Class. Luxiere looked up to Zack, admired him without a shred of jealousy or ulterior motive to throw him under the bus.

“.....”

These are the words... wait, are there words? Oh right, this is a charismaticless shell of a character who isn’t even worth one word. The Chocobo Driver. A man not even worth a name. A man from the seedy underbelly of the slums whose sole purpose in life is to find and deliver whores to a deplorable man where they will be a one-time bride and if they don’t make the cut, get fed to his dogs with greedy fingers. “Time travel” is nothing if your job is to take women away from potential loved ones to a man who will pump em and dump em. He may be travelling across the cosmos of the time space continuum but he’s snatching women from their beds to deliver them to Don Corneo’s. A man truly without morals. A man without a name.

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bforbrigitta (Post 782807)
Chocobo Driver may not have eyes, but he has charisma. So much charisma, in fact, that he's become a well-connected and highly respected figure in the slums. This motherfucker, ruthless and methodical, owns the hobo network in Midgar...He clubs his polygonal hands together and an army of street-hardened hobos are ready to fight for him, and they do.

You cry, they ain't even in Midgar! LITTLE DO YOU KNOW, that carriage is the original tardis and can transport his minions to rock humble old Rocket Town in a jiff. The hobos swarm Luxiere, grabbing chairs, tables, the rifles in Cid's room, gas tanks, pots and pans and lunge at him with their all. The Chocobo Driver opens the door to reveal his Chocobo and it spits in Luxiere's mouth, disarming him. While he's distracted by the foul taste of masticated gysal greens and saliva in his mouth, the hobos grab him. More hobos from the midgar slum appear out of the tardis!carriage and march through the door, angry at capitalism and angry at Shinra, and Luxiere is the perfect representative. Luxiere is supremely outnumbered!

Finally, Luxiere gets his bearings for long enough to remove his helmet, spitting out the last of the Chocobo muck from his mouth. As his vision returns, his acute claustrophobia stemming from a childhood trauma that his military training couldn't quite shake off, returns as he realises the tight space he's in amongst all the clamour from the crowd of hobos that surround him and he becomes paralysed with fear as the hobos enclose on him...

*fade to black*

Background SFX: BOOM BOOM POW POW POW

A pleasant fantasy, but only thing Luxiere will be spitting out is the bones of the hobos he's eaten for breakfast - or would, if a SOLDIER 2nd class ever committed anything as dishonourable as cannibalism. Our hero does pause to wonder why, if this seedy shabby chocobo driver truly owns a tardis, he can find nothing better to do with his days than sex trafficking for Don Corneo. Chocodriver clearly doesn't need to earn a living, so he must be doing it because he likes it; because he actively endorses the exploitation of women - and that's not something Luxiere is prepared to tolerate. He went into SOLDIER to make this world a better place, #metoo, and ridding it of this malevolent mafia sidekick and his pimpmobile and his army of disease-riddled cutpurse hobos is one more step in the right direction.

He'd assumed it was going to be a honourable fight, one on one, man to man, mano a mano - and let's be honest here, only in ChocoPimp's dreams are even a hundred hobos going to be a match for one SOLDIER - but if his adversary chooses to fight dirty (no surprises there) - then Luxiere calls every man and woman in SOLDIER for backup. Shinra helicopters can fly the distance between Midgar and Rocket Town in mere minutes (that's canon).

Oh, and unlike Chocopimp and the Hobos, Luxiere doesn't need to rely on finding materia just lying around. A good SOLDIER always comes prepared. Angeal trained them well. He's equipped Wall with +1000 HP Up, Quake with +1000 MP Up, Electrocute, SP Turbo Attack, Mug, and the Phoenix Materia - plus a Genji Shield, a Brutal, a Laurel Crown and a Mog's Amulet, all of which he won on missions.

Nice knowing you, Chocobo Driver....

Minato 05/06/2018 08:35 AM

I'd like to address a mistake I made in my earlier statement. The 50 Shin-Ra Infantryman challenge is only made available after Chapter 10, when Zack awakes from his coma and has already cut ties with Shin-Ra. It is a fantasy, one unconnected with the actual telling of Zack's journey.
The only time when Zack faces the numbers that the other team means to imply SOLDIER eats for breakfast is during the battle in which he loses his life.
This is the SOLDIER First Class we are talking about, the one Luxiere freely admits he could never measure up to or even be of any real use to as an actual combatant in the field whatsoever. There is no basis in canon for the difference between a human and an average SOLDIER Second Class to be as great as implied here. Before Crisis shows us that when push comes to shove, with the exception of the First Classes and those already sated to become First Class like Zack, Shin-Ra relies on the Turks far more for their most dangerous missions, even when they are freshly recruited from outside Shinra. Experience in the field, like the normal humans in AVALANCHE build up is weighed more heavily then the meager enhancements the mako infusion Hojo didn't partake in offers in this world. And that, our weathered Chocobo Driver has in bulk.

solo player sab 05/06/2018 09:15 AM

I gotta hand it to Team Chocobo for illustrating these creative and imaginative fables about not only our noble champion, but their own as well...we, Team Moogle, applaud you!

HOWEVER!!!!

What Team Chocobo has failed to do, honorable Spectators, is provide a logical argument for their champion built upon FACTS!!!

As both of my teammates have so eloquently presented, Luxiere is not only a SOLDIER 2ND Class, but a loyal follower and comrade of the hero, Zack Fair!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cambridge Dictionary
followernoun [ C ] US /ˈfɑl·oʊ·ər/

someone who obeys or supports another person or that person’s ideas: The newly elected governor appeared overcome with emotion as he thanked his followers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mail from Luxiere, subject title: 'Your Words'
By the way, I just heard about what you told the rookies
on your first mission after you changed your hairdo.
"Embrace your dreams. And, whatever happens,
protect your SOLDIER honor."
...I was so moved when I heard this,
it's been my personal motto ever since.
I'm following you until the end, Zack

As someone who has taken Zack's words as his personal motto, and as someone who has declared not once, not twice, but THRICE that he is "following [Zack] until the end," it is BLASPHEMY to claim that Luxiere is “the prime example of the complacent masses that depreciate the SOLDIER name” (Minato, 2018). In fact, Luxiere wanted nothing but to assist Zack in any way he could, offering to fill him in on the going-ons in Midgar. This is hardly complacent OR depreciative!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782805)
Is this a man you'd trust to pull through when he finds himself in a one on one battle to the death in a strange environment?

Certainly! Let’s revisit the Cambridge definition of ‘follower,’ shall we? Luxiere is “someone who obeys and supports another person or that person’s ideas.” So what do we know about Zack?

We know he is brimming with kindness; that he is brave and dependable; that he is undoubtedly powerful (Makoeyes987, 2006). But what of his IDEAS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987
Although he possessed outstanding skills as a swordsman, his principle was to avoid needless killing. That fact wouldn’t change even if his opponents were monsters

We can easily surmise that Luxiere strives to be all the things that Zack was, as well as embody the ideals that Zack shared with the lower ranks. So while Luxiere may find himself in a fight to death with your local ChocoPimp, and while he may easily win, he probably won’t kill him. Like Zack, needless killing just isn’t his thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782805)
Our Chocobo Driver is always on the move as a solo operative, travelling from one corner of the monster-filled Planet to the other…

THIS IS FALSE!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FancySycamoreTree (Post 782648)
Chocobo Carriage Driver - He steers a Chocobo-drawn carriage through the streets of Sector 6, chauffeuring eligible young women to Don Corneo…
Are you ready Team Chocobo?

This wimp cruises around Sector 6, not the Planet! Unlike Luxiere and his SOLDIER comrades, of course. NEXT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782805)
Everything we know of Luxiere tells us he is a boy, who never expected to have to take care of himself in a grown-ups world.

FALSE!!! Actually, everything we know of Luxiere tells us he is a SOLDIER 2nd class with as heroic characteristics and intentions as Zack Fair. And can we talk more about how he’s SOLDIER 2nd class?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The trustworthy and reputable Final Fantasy Wiki
SOLDIER members are divided in three classes: 1st Class, 2nd Class, and 3rd Class…New units are recruited as 3rd Class and the best are later promoted to 2nd Class, and only distinguished 2nd Class SOLDIERs reach 1st Class.

Obviously, Luxiere was among the best of his 3rd Class comrades to be promoted to 2nd Class. AND, what his last letter to Zack (that we’re aware of) tells us is that he was close to a promotion, thereby implying that he was, in fact, one of the distinguished SOLDIERs to be considered for 1st Class. So, simply put, Luxiere will KICK SOME ASS.

FURTHERMORE…

B darling, I know you’re my favorite fanfic writer and all, but I wasn’t expecting you to come up with this fiction! ;)

Actual footage of the outcome of this fight:

https://i.imgur.com/FZfy7iX.png

Oh, and, one last thing?

*beat drops*

Uh, uh, yeah

We out here battlin, why not make it a cipher?
Wipe down these babies like they got diapers
If this was a rap battle our champ would smoke ‘em too
Clownin on deez Choco’s cuz we #1 TEAM MOOG’

We got Channy and Ite, the killaz from Canada
Spittin cold hard truth, you be sayin “I ain’t mad atcha”
Ergo and Licorice goin in hard with the facts
ChocoPimp ain’t got NOTHIN on Lux’s ATTACKS!


*drops mic

So, honorable Spectators, I think you know who the clear winner is. Don't buy into Team Choco's fake news!!!! GO TEAM MOOGLE!!!

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782853)
I'd like to address a mistake I made in my earlier statement. The 50 Shin-Ra Infantryman challenge is only made available after Chapter 10, when Zack awakes from his coma and has already cut ties with Shin-Ra. It is a fantasy, one unconnected with the actual telling of Zack's journey.
The only time when Zack faces the numbers that the other team means to imply SOLDIER eats for breakfast is during the battle in which he loses his life.
This is the SOLDIER First Class we are talking about, the one Luxiere freely admits he could never measure up to or even be of any real use to as an actual combatant in the field whatsoever. There is no basis in canon for the difference between a human and an average SOLDIER Second Class to be as great as implied here. Before Crisis shows us that when push comes to shove, with the exception of the First Classes and those already sated to become First Class like Zack, Shin-Ra relies on the Turks far more for their most dangerous missions, even when they are freshly recruited from outside Shinra. Experience in the field, like the normal humans in AVALANCHE build up is weighed more heavily then the meager enhancements the mako infusion Hojo didn't partake in offers in this world. And that, our weathered Chocobo Driver has in bulk.

Luxiere never says he can't measure up to Zack or be as good as him. All he says is that he's looking for leadership and he thinks Zack could be the man. He also says he has a lot of respect for Zack and wants to assist him. Why would he offer to assist him if he had nothing to offer? (Plus, that's the SOLDIER spirit right there: they've got each other's backs). You're confusing Luxiere with the Third Class who got Zack to carry out all his missions. Luxiere clearly has hopes of promotion, since he seems to think that capturing Zack will secure promotion for him. There's no evidence to suggest that Luxiere isn't almost as good as Zack or lacks the potential to become as good as he is. Shinra doesn't rely on the Turks for ALL its most dangerous missions, just most of the ones we see. Luxiere emails Zack at least once from a helicopter taking him to an assignment, so it seems to fly in the face of the evidence to suggest he has no field experience!

Shina was very satisfied with the results of its SOLDIER program and was still running the program during the events of the OG. What it wasn't so satisfied with was its Firsts, its Project G and J sprogs who all went off the rails. Luxiere is a shining example of a successful and honourable SOLDIER operative tried and tested in battlefield conditions.

BforBrigitta 05/06/2018 09:37 AM

Uh, uh, nah, fuckit

Street-hardened and tough in a world that has failed him
His anger and hurt all filling up to the brim
Don’t even think of mentioning Shinra to this guy
He’d burn down their headquarters without batting an eye (hah!)

His superhuman powers awaken upon seeing Luxiere's face
There’s no sympathy to spare, not for this walking SOLDIER disgrace
The Chocobo Driver doesn’t have time to be merciful
He and his hobos about to cop his ass a handful

Trash 'im, drag 'im, whirl 'im around
He'll wish he were never born, that in the womb he were drowned
Hat like a cowboy, hands like an egg
Pummelling this fool until he grovels and begs

You’ll wish you didn’t mess with this Chocobo Driver
More than just an everyman he’s the time-travelling MacGyver
Seemingly harmless but wrong him and he’ll leave you for dead
And Luxiere’s out of chances now OFF WITH HIS HEAD!


https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20140121204128

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 09:45 AM

If Chocobo Driver hates Shinra so much AND he's a Time Traveller AND he has has superhuman powers, why hasn't he travelled back in time and put a stop to Shinra's rise to power? You'd think that'd be pretty high on his list of priorities. Or later on, why doesn't he travel back in time to stop Sephiroth from summoning Meteor?

If Chocobo Driver hates Shinra so much, why is he sex-trafficking women for a man who's a known informer for the Turks?

Maybe he's in some deep cover? Some really, really, really deep cover. Dark and deep.

Solo Player, your post was much better than mine! Nice job, man.

solo player sab 05/06/2018 09:45 AM

I don't know what you heard about him
But a bitch can't get a dollar out of him
No carriage, no eyes, he can't see
This driver's nothin' but a P-I-M-P

I don't know what you heard about Lux
But a bitch can't get a hand on Lux
He's got his skills, materia, can't you see?
That he's the motherfuckin' G-O-A-T

Minato 05/06/2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solo player sab (Post 782857)
I gotta hand it to Team Chocobo for illustrating these creative and imaginative fables about not only our noble champion, but their own as well...we, Team Moogle, applaud you!

HOWEVER!!!!

What Team Chocobo has failed to do, honorable Spectators, is provide a logical argument for their champion built upon FACTS!!!

As both of my teammates have so eloquently presented, Luxiere is not only a SOLDIER 2ND Class, but a loyal follower and comrade of the hero, Zack Fair!

Being a follower of Zack Fair (to be a comrade requires reciprocation) does not prove his solo combat prowess. Any child can repeat words he heard someone say.

Quote:

As someone who has taken Zack's words as his personal motto, and as someone who has declared not once, not twice, but THRICE that he is "following [Zack] until the end," it is BLASPHEMY to claim that Luxiere is “the prime example of the complacent masses that depreciate the SOLDIER name” (Minato, 2018). In fact, Luxiere wanted nothing but to assist Zack in any way he could, offering to fill him in on the going-ons in Midgar. This is hardly complacent OR depreciative!
I don't doubt that Luxiere is capable of supplying Zack with local gossip.

Quote:

We can easily surmise that Luxiere strives to be all the things that Zack was, as well as embody the ideals that Zack shared with the lower ranks. So while Luxiere may find himself in a fight to death with your local ChocoPimp, and while he may easily win, he probably won’t kill him. Like Zack, needless killing just isn’t his thing.
This is where Luxiere's actual words differ. He strives to follow Zack till the end, therefore never standing next to him as an equal.

Quote:

THIS IS FALSE!!!

This wimp cruises around Sector 6, not the Planet! Unlike Luxiere and his SOLDIER comrades, of course. NEXT.
We see him exit Sector 7, with our own eyes. That you'd naysay this shows how trusted your words ought to be. Sector 6 by itself houses more dangers then the SOLDIER floor that Luxiere spend all his time on offers.

Quote:

Obviously, Luxiere was among the best of his 3rd Class comrades to be promoted to 2nd Class. AND, what his last letter to Zack (that we’re aware of) tells us is that he was close to a promotion, thereby implying that he was, in fact, one of the distinguished SOLDIERs to be considered for 1st Class. So, simply put, Luxiere will KICK SOME ASS.
His last letter tells us that he has been stuck at 2nd for 6 years at least. Longer then Zack's entire career at Shinra and he does not possess the ability to change this without outside help. However he managed to reach 2nd, he peaked right then and there.

Quote:

Luxiere emails Zack at least once from a helicopter taking him to an assignment, so it seems to fly in the face of the evidence to suggest he has no field experience!
It was emphasised that this was a particular time when all hands were on deck, as there were simultaneous attacks across the globe. Even then SOLDIER was not trusted to handle this alone, the infantry corps and the Turks were scrambled as well, nothing in Luxiere's time on screen show he was more then another body on hand when it's absolutely that even the last and least should try to pull their weight.

It is boosted that Luxiere embodies everything that Zack was but Zack protected Midgar, from the streets to the slums. He went out of his way to help anyone that asked and fought crime and monsters. The mere existence of the mob that has a stranglehold on Midgar below the plate five years after Zack left that the Chocobo Driver is a member off shows that Luxiere is either unwilling or incapable of filling Zack's shoes to even the most meager degree.

The Chocobo Driver is able to his job exactly because no one in Midgar either can or will stop him. That includes Luxiere.

solo player sab 05/06/2018 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782862)
Being a follower of Zack Fair (to be a comrade requires reciprocation) does not prove his solo combat prowess.

Neither does driving a ChocoPimpmobile yet here we are arguing it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782862)
I don't doubt that Luxiere is capable of supplying Zack with local gossip.

Gossip or not, Luxiere's earnestness to help Zack is a testament to his character - to refute your earlier statements that he was complacent and depreciates the SOLDIER name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782862)
We see him exit Sector 7, with our own eyes.

But we don't see him exit Midgar and into the vast Planet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782862)
That you'd naysay this shows how trusted your words ought to be.

FIGHT ME ROGER (but I still <3 you)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato (Post 782862)
His last letter tells us that he has been stuck at 2nd for 6 years at least. Longer then Zack's entire career at Shinra and he does not possess the ability to change this without outside help. However he managed to reach 2nd, he peaked right then and there.

Team Moogle isn't arguing that Luxiere was ever as powerful as Zack. What we are saying, however, is that having Zack as a hero must play SOME part in his own ideals and motivations as a SOLDIER. The fact that he made 2nd class at all is telling of his skills in combat. That's more to say than a carriage driver with little credibility.

BforBrigitta 05/06/2018 10:43 AM

Bitch,

SOLDIER ain’t shit but money and tricks
Busting out “logic” like it’s gospel 'n shit
Won’t you check all ya sources, I dare ya
Research funded by mahfuckin’ Shinra, I betcha

In the words of Professor Minato, 2018
The Chocobo Driver’s unstoppable, know what I mean?
They called us fake news, babies, ChocoPimp too
They just scared of what we’ll serve em, the big hard truth

You know what my problem is it ain’t even Luxiere
There’s a greater evil here and I’m bout to share
Luxiere’s posse scream “FACTS” into the abyss
But ain’t have a problem spouting lies just to diss
HYPOCRITE


*outro*

Elessar 05/06/2018 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solo player sab (Post 782861)
I don't know what you heard about him
But a bitch can't get a dollar out of him
No carriage, no eyes, he can't see
This driver's nothin' but a P-I-M-P

I don't know what you heard about Lux
But a bitch can't get a hand on Lux
He's got his skills, materia, can't you see?
That he's the motherfuckin' G-O-A-T

You know what the Chocobos are fed each morning before they start teleporting around? Mom’s Spaghetti. The very same one that has fuelled THE Rap God since his formative years. So what am I trying to say?

Our Chocobos can rap.

BforBrigitta 05/06/2018 10:57 AM

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/p...GW4bnEz9-4.png

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 11:01 AM

Could you address the question of why Chocobo Driver hasn't used his superhuman time travelling powers to save the world, or at least himself, from the evils of Shinra?

Is it that he doesn't give a shit?

solo player sab 05/06/2018 11:08 AM

Luxiere is to SOLDIER as the Driver is to the DON
Pimpin hoes all night like he catchin Pokemon
Ya'll talk like Shinra is the only enemy
You know what else is tho? THE PATRIARCHY

Why nobody wanna talk about his exploitations?
Choco Driver deliverin chicks to Don's congregation
Hashtag metoo, my homie Licorice knows wasgood
Don't call us hypocrites when your boy disgraces womanhood

BforBrigitta 05/06/2018 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicoriceAllsorts (Post 782868)
Could you address the question of why Chocobo Driver hasn't used his superhuman time travelling powers to save the world, or at least himself, from the evils of Shinra?

Is it that he doesn't give a shit?

YouTube Video

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 11:40 AM

Luxiere's motto is "Embrace your dreams. And, whatever happens,
protect your SOLDIER honor."

Chocopimp's motto is, "Grab 'em by the pussy."

BforBrigitta 05/06/2018 11:43 AM

I knew that this was comin' so I just wanna address
I think it’s kind of important and causes quite some distress
Cold dissin’ is as old as all the great romances
But before you do that you gotta know his circumstances

You see, the Chocobo Driver has a family to feed
A wife and four kids he hardly ever gets to see
I ain’t talking about his eyesight, which, by the way
He can’t get another job that'll take 'em this way

I ain’t saying that the patriarchy ain’t a glarin' issue
But as the slum folks know, greed and capitalism done destroyed lives too
He wishes this job ain’t have to be so morally repugnant
But his family’s gotta survive, even if it makes him a father absent


https://image.ibb.co/fs8sYn/Chocobo_...river_copy.png

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 11:50 AM

I can't do rap, I can only do lawyer.

It's hard to understand why a time traveller with superhuman powers and an army of hobos at his command is compelled by capitalism to drive a pimpmobile in order to keep his family from starving. Why doesn't he travel back in time, buy up great art when it was cheap, then bring it back to the future and sell it for a fortune?

No, the truth is, either he actually takes pleasure from being a small cog in the big grindstone of the flesh trade, or he's a sad, powerless little man with neither the talent nor the gumption for anything better. In which case, what insanity makes him believe he can take on a SOLDIER 2nd class and win?

BforBrigitta 05/06/2018 12:01 PM

Wow, ok...

https://image.ibb.co/jSdHYn/SOLDIER_ccvii_2nd_tin.png

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 12:24 PM

I see Reno was pranking people again....

Clement Rage 05/06/2018 01:29 PM

Messing with the Timestream isn't something that can be done lightly, it's all too easy to end up writing yourself out of the timestream or unhinging the space time continuum. Learning about great art before it becomes public, that means you've heard about it before you bought it, so if you go back in time to by it, then you can't have heard about it. Boom, paradox. Time travel is not a toy, it must be used responsibly for the highest purposes. And he ultimately brings about the downfall of the Corneos once the time is right by bringing Tifa to them after ensuring the Corneos last long enough to give vital information to AVALANCHE

Sure, Luxiere SAYS he's loyal to the end, but the moment that's put to the test, he's willing to sell out Zack for a promotion (which indicates to me that he can't or doesn't want to actually earn it alone.) He professes loyalty to several different people, but abandons them all as it becomes expedient, even asking 'who do you think I should follow?' when one of idols falls, because he's canvassing for opinions rather than holding to his principles. What does that say about his honour or loyalty?

Luxiere doesn't have the pull with the Higher ups to have Shinra call in the cavalry for his sake. Missions are almost always done solo unless Shinra says otherwise. And they're not going to stretch themselves for one second who's not known for his loyalty.

Furthermore, let's not forget where this is taking place. Cid's House. And what is the first rule of Cid's house? That's right, it's

"Sit the $&!? down and drink your goddamn tea!"

With his inherent, demonstrated deference to the nearest strong personality and authority figure, weak willed Luxiere will find himself unable to disobey. From random terrorists to Shinra executives, no one is immune to this immutable rule, except perhaps a hobo army and their leader, that doesn't feel bound to common propriety.

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 01:31 PM

Cid isn't there, though.

How is bringing about the downfall of the Corneos a higher purpose than bringing down Shinra? If you're saying he brought down Shinra by bringing down the Corneos, all I can say is someone so skilled and wise could surely have found a way that didn't involve the death of millions through Meteor and geostigma.

Ergo: Chocopimp can't time travel. Which throws doubt on all his claims.

Clement Rage 05/06/2018 01:44 PM

Meddling with time travel always needs to be done carefully, or else it just forces itself back into place. It's necessary to find the right pebble to start the AVALANCHE, or else nothing happens or something worse happens. It's surgery, not whacking things with a hammer.

House rules apply whether your host is present or not.

BforBrigitta 05/06/2018 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clement Rage (Post 782884)
House rules apply whether your host is present or not.

https://media.giphy.com/media/gtakVlnStZUbe/giphy.gif

GIT EM, CLEMENT RAGE!

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 02:48 PM

But only if you know what the house rules are. Cid isn't there to tell him.

So let me get this straight: Chocopimp feels the laws of time travel are too delicate to allow him to travel back in time and either stop Shinra from rising to power or making a killing on the fine art market (which in turn would allow him to give up the sex traffic trade), but somehow they don't prevent him transporting himself and his (non-existent) minions from Midgar to Rocket Town for a smackdown battle with an extremely minor character from Crisis Core?

I think he makes up these time travel rules to suit himself and excuse the fact that he earns a living from the exploitation of women, misogynist douchebag that he is.

Elessar 05/06/2018 04:25 PM


f a n c y 05/06/2018 04:26 PM


THAT’S IT!

This marks the end of the first round! Give a big round of applause for our first participants, please! Without them, this wouldn’t have been possible!!

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f39f...itemid=5996766

Spectators (and the audience!*) have 24 hours to cast their votes (either by posting in this thread or messaging me privately) for the champion that they have been swayed to stand behind. Our esteemed spectators this round are...

https://s6.postimg.cc/lwmsto7bl/Spectators.png

Fancy (when neccesary)
Joe
robotwarui

At this time, spectators and audience members are allowed to post their thoughts on the match. Players are NOT ALLOWED to counter any of these comments with new arguments or to continue ‘battling’ in general. Any attempt to do so will count as an automatic loss for your team. Players are free, however, to pay compliments to your opponents and such. ^^

Players!

If you’d like to opt out of participating in the next round, tell me so now. Otherwise, I’m going to assume you’re still playing and you’re going to be reshuffled into a new team.

In General

If anyone (players, spectators, audience, anyone) has any feedback, questions, or concerns regarding the rules, please post that in the master thread here. It’ll be easier for me to keep track of/find your feedback this way for future reference. Thank you!

Any non-participant who’d like to be shuffled into a team, please say so now.


*You may be wondering what the point of having a spectator role is if the audience can help decide the winner. Well, it’s to ensure that there is at least someone making the decision just in case the audience is silent. ^^





Channy 05/06/2018 06:23 PM

I went to bed after submitting my piece of the argument, so sorry I couldn’t contribute more. Well done teams. Excellent stuff to wake up to :monster:

solo player sab 05/06/2018 06:30 PM

Hey LicoriceAllsorts, does your back hurt from carrying us? :awesome: you’re amazing!!!

Shout out to Team Chocobo for comin’ in hot with those arguments! I probably wouldn’t have been able to come up with those :lol: GOOD GAME YA’LL LETS DO IT AGAIN!

InterfaceLeader 05/06/2018 06:43 PM

This was amazing :D

Flare 05/06/2018 07:18 PM

This was fecking awesome to watch and read. :D I thoroughly enjoyed it! Enough to make me make a casual post for the first time in ages :wacky: Great job guys, can’t wait to see more <3

Shademp 05/06/2018 07:49 PM

This has to be the most hilarious community event TLS has ever had. The creativity in here is overflowing!

On what basis should I cast my vote? The team that made me laugh the most or the one that was the most insane in its attempts to convince who would win in a fight? :wacky: I am struggling over here.

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 08:15 PM

Vote with your heart, Shademp.

Ergo 05/06/2018 08:17 PM

Apologies for missing out on this but I've been stuck on an island in the middle of nowhere watching my kids chase goats and sheep across a few acres of land since Friday :-/

LicoriceAllsorts 05/06/2018 08:20 PM

That sounds like my kind of place. Is it a... mossy isle?


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