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-   -   Question about Genesis and Tifa (https://thelifestream.net/oldforums/showthread.php?t=19996)

demonwolf 09/16/2017 11:57 PM

That...cleared up a lot. Thank you!

Minato 09/17/2017 07:32 AM

Tsviets are Deepground's best SOLDIERS, but they didn't know this was the case the day these individuals arrived/were born, and SOLDIERs are still implanted with Jenova cells when they become SOLDIERs. Deepground existed before they created Sephiroth and found out Jenova cells made supersoldiers but nothing says they entirely neglected to take up the practice afterwards.

Weiss is the pure one, Rosso as a young girl was spliced with Genesis' genes in the experiment where they came to the conclusion that his genetic make-up merit but Nero, Azul and Shelke I assume have both.

Tashasaurous 09/17/2017 07:40 AM

Azul was taken in by the Turks, as shown in Before Crisis where he was a little less behamoth-like, but still huge.

LicoriceAllsorts 09/17/2017 08:35 AM

Azul was taken by the Turks after Genesis defected. By this point Hojo knew Genesis was degrading. Why would they inject the DNA of a degrading specimen into subjects they wanted to cultivate into supersoldiers?

I'm not saying that any of this isn't canon, just that the timeline makes zero sense.

Tashasaurous 09/17/2017 08:47 AM

I know that, especially since Before Crisis began one year after the beginning of Crisis Core.

Kieron_ODuibhir 09/17/2017 07:07 PM

Actually, taking Genesis back alive to figure out how he wasn't dying seems plausible, yeah! And I did sort of assume the Tsviets let him get away and Shinra never really got the chance to follow up on it; makes as much sense as anything about Deep Ground. He was less of a threat the fewer SOLDIERs there were for him to transform into his minions anymore, anyway.

Why he spent two apocalypses napping in a hamster ball if he's all redeemed and ready to fight the good fight is unlikely to have a good explanation, but can probably be filed under 'self-centered ass.'

I've tended to assume the reason Minerva gives a damn about Genesis is whoever his biological parents were, one was part-Cetra. A lot less than Aerith, but still enough to be more useful than most humans, plus he's pious, in a weird, self-involved melodramatic way. And he's got superpowers.

The Planet isn't a particularly moral or strategically complex entity, I mean. It created Kaiju to solve its alien problem, and then when they were eventually unleashed they mostly just targeted human settlements, or did nothing whatever. It did not have clear instructions for Aerith or her ancestors. (Personally I suspect Genesis' Goddess of being the moon, which is for some reason somewhat more intelligent than the Planet, but either way.) Cloud's power is largely Jenova-based and it doesn't have a problem with him as a hero. The Planet would not care that Genesis was part-alien or that he was a major douchelord, if he was the right tool for the job.

Except being imbued with Jenova cells probably meant he was useless for Cetra purposes, and was also killing him because the Cetra and Jenova DNA elements were in conflict. So she fixed him. Somehow.

Angeal had the same DNA-based transformation and memetic-transfer Jenova abilities as Genesis, but they weren't noticeably killing him. He wasn't greying out or displaying problems healing. He was fine. It could be this was because he got the genes in a different, more direct way, and Hollander just royally fucked up the transfer process? But I like the Cetra theory.

demonwolf 09/17/2017 07:35 PM

^I like the way you think.

A lot of my story idea is based on the same lines of thought.

I don't particularly love the idea that Genesis might have Cetra blood though. From a creator's perspective, it would just be overloading his character.

The Twilight Mexican 09/17/2017 09:01 PM

Clarification on a couple things --

Restriction chips: Everyone in Deepground (the Tsviets included) has a chip implanted in their brain stem that allows the Restrictors to immobilize them. That's probably why they are called "Restrictors" to begin with. The Tsviet's rebellion involved utilizing a subject whom they made sure (via hacking Deepground's main computer system) was not subject to the immobilization.

Genesis & the Tsviets: They don't have his DNA (i.e. his actual biological material). Rather, his genes had been mapped after he was born, and his traits were transferred to the Tsviets via genetic modification. In other words, the makeup of their cells was altered to look like his, presumably as a catalyst of sorts to make their bodies more capable of integrating with the various foreign substances added to their bodies (e.g. stagnant mako for Nero, pure mako for Weiss, behemoth DNA for Azul, etc.).

This distinction -- having Genesis's DNA vs. their own cells being altered to resemble his -- is an important one, becuase that's the difference between them having Jenova's cellular material and not. In Weiss's case, he would have been unable to be a host to Omega had he contained the contamination of Jenova.

For quite a few years, this matter was extremely confusing to me as well. It's easy to misunderstand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicoriceAllsorts (Post 762567)
Azul was taken by the Turks after Genesis defected. By this point Hojo knew Genesis was degrading. Why would they inject the DNA of a degrading specimen into subjects they wanted to cultivate into supersoldiers?

I'm not saying that any of this isn't canon, just that the timeline makes zero sense.

The gene mapping began shortly after Genesis was born rather than when he was an adult. Of course, that just raises the question of why they mapped his traits when they thought he was a failed experiment. =P
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron_ODuibhir (Post 762608)
Why he spent two apocalypses napping in a hamster ball if he's all redeemed and ready to fight the good fight is unlikely to have a good explanation, but can probably be filed under 'self-centered ass.'

I would hesitate to assume he's either redeemed or ready to fight any good fights. As you go on to point out later in your post, the planet's self-defense system (the Weapons) mostly just attacked humans. Genesis seemingly became one of the Weapons during his fight with Zack (as Genesis Avatar), and then reawakened years later following the destruction of another Weapon (Omega).

It's not necessarily a good thing that he's awake if the planet woke him up. Jade Weapon awakened to try killing the Turks when they destroyed the summon Zirconiade since the planet saw the creature as a vital component of its ecology.

Omega is the planet's "last resort" mechanism; its "lifeboat." If the planet has woken something else up in response to that getting destroyed, it's probably Bad News Bears.

demonwolf 09/17/2017 09:54 PM

Thanks TTM-san! That was really helpful. I'm going to have to save these info to my notes and see how I can play with them.

X-SOLDIER 09/18/2017 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obsidian Fire (Post 762539)
It's a bit inaccurate to say the Genesis is less part-Jenova then Sephiroth is. Most of that is based whatever inaccurate ideas Shinra had about what Jenova actually was all the way back before they even knew she wasn't a Cetra. All that basically means is that when Genesis was born, Shinra didn't think he had whatever they were looking for, so they gave him up to be adopted. Sephiroth, however did, so they kept him as an experiment. Genesis, Angeal and Sephiroth all have different Jenova-traits, it's just that Sephiroth's were the ones that were found out about first.

What can be said is that the way Jenova-cells were introduced to Genesis were different then the way they were introduced to Sephiroth, so that's probably where at least some of the difference comes from.

As for how the different ways they got them... Sephiroth's J-cells come from those Lucrecia was given before/during the time she was pregnant with him. Angeal's come from the cells Gillian had (after everyone in Shinra thought Gillian's experiment was a failure). Genesis had Gilllian's genes spliced into his while he was in a test-tube. He's arguably the one with the most "proactive" use of Jenova's copying abilities though. He's also the one who's DNA breaks down the fastest, which is the main thing he gets "healed" from by the goddess.

The relationship the Tsviets and Genesis have is really murky. Sometime after Genesis was born, someone in Shinra realized his cells did have something going on with them and spliced his DNA into that of the Tsviets. So the Tsviets themselves have never been exposed to Jenova cells (that's what the whole "pure" thing is about). They just have some very mutated human DNA added to them.

As for why DG wants Genesis... there's a big difference between having the DNA of something vs haveing the acutal thing. Also, Genesis just got the one big flaw in his DNA (the degradation) fixed. So I could see someone wanting to see what the differences are.

While the end of it's all speculation, there's some stuff in my old analysis that might also point to the whole S vs. G and Jenova relationship that's probably worth looking over: https://thelifestream.net/lifestream...fananalysis/3/





X :neo:

Clement Rage 11/16/2017 09:36 PM

Re Genesis v Deepground, it doesn't have to be a duel. Zack can take Genesis in a straight fight by the endgame, but he can be ground down by enough ordinary infantry.

Maybe he was sealed in Deepground with the rest and could only get out after it was breached.

I believe it's just Weiss that has never been exposed to JENOVA? Hence 'The Immaculate'


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