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Final Fantasy VII Remake The remake of FFVII announced at E3 on June 15th, 2015 -- OUR WHOLE LIVES HAVE BEEN LEADING UP TO THIS MOMENT!!

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Old 07/11/2016   #46
hian
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It would make a lot of sense of Hojo was from Wutai.
His name surname (Hojo) is Japanese, and the only other character I can think of with a Japanese surname is Yuffie (Kisaragi) and she's from Wutai as well.
Since Wutai is the symbolic version of Asia in the world of FFVII, it would make sense for a guy with an Asian name to be from the region.
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Old 07/11/2016   #47
LicoriceAllsorts
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With the little blocky sprites it wasn't possible to show a lot of racial differences (except for skin colour) so it will be interesting to see what happens with the remake and whether they make Yuffie, Tseng and Hojo "look Asian", or at least look like each other, like they all come from the same ethnic group. From what we saw of Tseng and Yuffie in ACC, they didn't "look Wutaian" any more than a lot of characters did (eg Reno, Tifa, Vincent). We'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 07/11/2016   #48
Octo
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People say that the FFVII cast, since AC anyway, look Japanese. Except they don't, I mean I suppose they look like Japanese people who have had shitloads of cosmetic surgery to look Western. The whole thing is weird.

I'm not expecting them to look much different than they did in AC anyway.

Though I'd kind of love it if they went 'fuck this realisim' and went with cel shaded anime style
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Old 07/11/2016   #49
Tashasaurous
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Octo wrote: People say that the FFVII cast, since AC anyway, look Japanese. Except they don't, I mean I suppose they look like Japanese people who have had shitloads of cosmetic surgery to look Western. The whole thing is weird.
I guess some Japanese people just don't know how to imagine Japanese characters in certain games. Plus, I think Square's really aiming for other country people to fit in with Final Fantasy to give players around the world to show them that, no matter where you come from, or what background you have, or what you look like or what language you speak, in the end, you're human just like everybody else.(or in same games like FFVII with Nanaki, FFIX with Quina and Vivi, with FFX with Kimhari and FFXI with optional avatars, that all life, humans and animals, all have three things in comman-minds, hearts and souls).

So it doesn't matter what you look like-it's what you do that counts. I think so, at least. Everyone sees things differently.

Octo wrote: I'm not expecting them to look much different than they did in AC anyway.

Though I'd kind of love it if they went 'fuck this realisim' and went with cel shaded anime style
If wasn't the fact that Square Enix were fussy over not using stuff after ten years, I'd be more than happy if they kept the styles from AC era for the Remake. Or like Cloud's features to be similiar from that of the Arcade Dissidia Final Fantasy game.

But that's just me.
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Old 07/11/2016   #50
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You know, I've been thinking about this while replaying the OG, and it occurred to me that the only racially-aware comment made by any character in the entire game happens when Barret refers to Cloud's "spikey white ass" and for all I know that was the result of the translator taking a liberty. I think FF is trying to eschew all Earth-bound racial issues, but fans will insist on reading the games through a racial filter.
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Old 07/11/2016   #51
The Twilight Mexican
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Hojo definitely "looks Asian" in his concept art for both the original game and BC, as does Tseng. Their models in CC and Dirge do as well.

LicoriceAllsorts wrote: You know, I've been thinking about this while replaying the OG, and it occurred to me that the only racially-aware comment made by any character in the entire game happens when Barret refers to Cloud's "spikey white ass" and for all I know that was the result of the translator taking a liberty.
You mean the "I'll go upside your spikey white head and bring you back to normal!" line? Yeah, that was a translation liberty. The original line (俺がぶん殴ってでも正気に戻してやるからよ!) was basically just "I'll knock some sense back into you!"
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Old 07/11/2016   #52
hian
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Octo wrote: People say that the FFVII cast, since AC anyway, look Japanese. Except they don't, I mean I suppose they look like Japanese people who have had shitloads of cosmetic surgery to look Western. The whole thing is weird.
As a person who lives in Japan, personally I would say that in many ways a large part of the cast (especially those with less masculine features) does look more Japanese to me than western.
(Cloud, Vincent, Yuffie, Tifa, Aerith, Reno, pretty much all the kids etc.)
The small noses, oval faces, and, hair-style and eye shapes make them distinct from what I typically associate with western people (strong jaw-lines, pronounced noses etc.).

Not only are hair-cuts like Cloud's in AC a fairly common site in Japan, those hair-cuts are easier to emulate for Japanese people than most westerners, because Japanese tend to have more wiry and thicker strands of hair that is easier to style.
Similarly, the big eyes from AC, look more like what Japanese eyes tend to look like once they've applied make-up, etc. than what western eyes look like naturally.

Looking at interviews about Nomura's style, for instance in regards to FFXV (whose original style is pretty similar to that of AC) it has been said he was working off of Japanese fashion and Japanese fashion models, and he's gone as far as using Gackt in CC, so I think it's pretty apparent that up until now, he's had a pretty strong image of "Japaneseness" featured in his designs.

In either case, use of hair dye, color contacts, or for those who already don't have big eyes (which many do), eye tape or surgery, is also fairly common here - and contrary to what most people seem to think, has nothing to do with emulating the west.
It's simply something you do when you want to stand out. After all, everybody pretty much has dark brown or black hair, and eyes various shades of brown here.

It has as much about wanting to look western for most of these people, as westerners dying their hair black has to do with wanting to look Asian - that is to say, more often than not, not at all.


Octo wrote: I'm not expecting them to look much different than they did in AC anyway.

Though I'd kind of love it if they went 'fuck this realisim' and went with cel shaded anime style
The above being said though, what we've seen of Cloud's face from the remake, I think he looks really western now compared to how he looked in AC.

And as for the cell-shading, you know my stance on that
Bring it on, nao.

EDIT :
I did seem to recall reading somewhere, that western fans of FFVII tend to think the cast looks western, while Japanese fans of FFVII tend to think they look Japanese, and that the characters were purposefully designed using a combination of traits that could pan out either way, specifically to target this bias in audiences and have them connect more strongly with the characters.
I can for the life of me remember where I read it though.
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Old 07/11/2016   #53
LicoriceAllsorts
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See, I just don't see it. Tseng and Hojo don't look particularly "Asian" to me, unless you're going by their long black hair. They don't look any more "Asian" than Vincent (also long black hair) or Tifa (who we know for a fact is not from Wutai).

Look at the three girls:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Can we really say that Yuffie looks "more Asian" than Tifa or Aerith, or that Tifa and Aerith look "less Asian" than Yuffie?

I'm not trying to argue that everybody in FFVII looks European. That's not my point at all. I'm saying that you can't tell from looking what part of their world somebody comes from, because the characters are not designed like that.
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Old 07/11/2016   #54
hian
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LicoriceAllsorts wrote: See, I just don't see it. Tseng and Hojo don't look particularly "Asian" to me, unless you're going by their long black hair. They don't look any more "Asian" than Vincent (also long black hair) or Tifa (who we know for a fact is not from Wutai).

Look at the three girls:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Can we really say that Yuffie looks "more Asian" than Tifa or Aerith, or that Tifa and Aerith look "less Asian" than Yuffie?

I'm not trying to argue that everybody in FFVII looks European. That's not my point at all. I'm saying that you can't tell from looking what part of their world somebody comes from, because the characters are not designed like that.
My point isn't that those characters look more Asian to me than the others. I am saying that to me, all those characters look pretty Asian (perhaps with the exception of Aerith, but that's mostly to do with lighting and the angle, as I've seen plenty of other images of her where she retains the Asian facial features).
I see girls every day with faces similar to that here in Japan - I never saw a face even remotely like that in all my days in Norway, unless it was on an Japanese-looking Asian girl.
EDIT : Actually, I have to correct myself - there was this one Caucasian girl in my basic philosophy back in my uni days, who had a face like an AC character. She should get credit where credit is due.

I was just making a contrary observation to Octo.

I agree that you can't necessary tell which part of the world of FFVII the cast is from based on appearance, which is why I say it's more reasonable to go by name.

Hojo's naming convention matches Kisaragi, a Wutai family name - and so it's reasonable to assume Hojo, or at least his family, is of Wutai descent.

Last edited by hian; 07/11/2016 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 01/11/2017   #55
cun10294
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Is it strange that the more I read about Hojo the more I see him not as evil and flat as he was shown? I mean, after I took a notice in his appearance through each FF7's compilation, he kinda look less and less ugly compare to the first one, as if even the staffs started to notice him differently than before. Also the way that it was implied he maybe the Chairwoman H. of Sephiroth's fan club shows that he cares for Sephiroth is more complicated than just pure evil and madness. I also have read an analysis article that point out this very interesting detail when Cloud met him at Costa De Sol
In fact, Hojo’s little fun in the sun may not be as random as you might think; recall about how he had managed to convince Lucrecia to copulate with him in order to produce a child for the Jenova project (aka Sephiroth). It could be argued that Lucrecia rejected Vincent’s feelings in order to commit her body and soul to science.

Or perhaps Hojo is much more charismatic than we imagined. The women surrounding him in Costa De Sol could just be contractually obligated to follow his whims, being a powerful and wealthy man on top of the Shinra food chain. But speaking to the beach bunnies directly does not seem to suggest that they are forced into their situation, or even disgusted. If anything, it would be more plausible to assume that Hojo comes across as friendly and attractive toward the opposite sex; as one of the most unquestionably evil and irredeemable villains in Final Fantasy history, Hojo’s complete lack of empathy toward other people is a common trait among psychopaths. Another common trait is that psychopaths is their ability to sway other people with a false charm, particularly those of the opposite sex. In hindsight, seeing Hojo chilling about in Costa De Sol isn’t just comical, it’s also revelatory.
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Old 02/18/2017   #56
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jazzflower92 wrote: Since Hojo was such a scumbag in the original game, what do you think they could do to make him even worse in the remakes. In the Compilation, a lot of bad stuff that happens to people can be traced to his actions. And seeing how remakes like to ramp up the evil in a main villain, I wonder what atrocities can they add to Hojo's resume.
See, I look at the whole "Breeding" thing a little differently. Not to say that rape and beastiality isn't bad, because holy crap it is.

But I don't think that was Hojo's intention, and it's a bit of fridge horror after we've gotten to know him a little better in Crisis Core. The guy has one focus, and one focus only: Create the strongest, indestructible creature to ever defy nature. Sephiroth was supposed to be the culmination of his life's work.

So it seems a little at odds that Hojo would waste his time with Aerith and the NeoMidgar project. He has a habit of dismissing anything and anyone that gets in the way of his limited scope of focus. So I honestly think that Hojo actually intended for Red XIII to eat Aerith.

"Well, I thought it would help!" He'd say, and being the only one that can really run the biological-research facility, he probably thinks he could get away with just a slap on the wrist. Aerith gets killed, nixing any need to waste his precious time studying what he feels is an inferior specimen of no power or merit. He'd be free to ignore the now ruined NeoMidgar initiative, and focus on his little frankenstien-esq experiments without interruption.
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Old 02/19/2017   #57
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ChipNoir wrote: See, I look at the whole "Breeding" thing a little differently. Not to say that rape and beastiality isn't bad, because holy crap it is.

But I don't think that was Hojo's intention, and it's a bit of fridge horror after we've gotten to know him a little better in Crisis Core. The guy has one focus, and one focus only: Create the strongest, indestructible creature to ever defy nature. Sephiroth was supposed to be the culmination of his life's work.

So it seems a little at odds that Hojo would waste his time with Aerith and the NeoMidgar project. He has a habit of dismissing anything and anyone that gets in the way of his limited scope of focus. So I honestly think that Hojo actually intended for Red XIII to eat Aerith.

Well... That's an interesting interpretation of events, but.... the dialogue from the characters doesn't even remotely suggest that being the case. In fact, it's pretty explicitly specific.

IN THE BOARD MEETING


President Shinra:
Hojo. How's the girl?

Hojo:
As a specimen, she is inferior to her mother. I'm still in the process of comparing her to her mother, Ifalna, but for now the difference is 18%.

President Shinra:
How long will the research take?

Hojo:
Probably 120 years. It's probably impossible to finish in our lifetime. Or in the lifetime of the specimen too, for that matter. That's why we're thinking of breeding her. Then we could create one that could withstand our research for a long time.

President Shinra:
What about the Promised Land? Won't it hinder our plans?

Hojo:
That's why I need to plan. The mother is strong... and yet has her weaknesses.



IN HOJO'S LABORATORY



Cloud:
What do you think you're doin'?

Hojo:
Lending a helping hand to an endangered species... Both of them are on the brink of extinction... If I don't help, all these animals will disappear.

Tifa:
...animal? That's terrible! Aeris is a human being!



AFTERWARDS



Red XIII:
I have a right to choose, too. I don't like two-legged things. I apologize for what happened back there. I was merely acting to throw Hojo off guard......

They're very clearly talking about forcibly breeding the two of them, so that he can have a long-lived being with a connection to the Cetra's powers that's also ore capable of withstanding whatever sort of insane research he subjects it to. (Not really all that far of a stretch of morality for him, given how Sephiroth was created, he's full in on human experimentation as-is).

Hojo sees both of them as nothing but animals for him to do his testing on, and each one possesses a quality that he ideally wants in a single test subject. Additionally, he refers to them repeatedly as regular specimens, and while they may not be his primary motive and drive, he's still WAY, WAY into his mad science. If he was gonna kill them off, he'd've sent HO512 up to dispatch them while they were trapped, since it was sent up via the exact same life system and it's a, "ferocious specimen" unlike Red XIII.

Speaking of which:



HO512 is clearly an amalgamate lifeform, which means that Hojo's no stranger to SOME form of species intermingling in his spare time here, and especially when it comes to subjects stored within this specific elevator system of his in his main lab.





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Old 02/19/2017   #58
ChipNoir
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X-SOLDIER wrote:
ChipNoir wrote: See, I look at the whole "Breeding" thing a little differently. Not to say that rape and beastiality isn't bad, because holy crap it is.

But I don't think that was Hojo's intention, and it's a bit of fridge horror after we've gotten to know him a little better in Crisis Core. The guy has one focus, and one focus only: Create the strongest, indestructible creature to ever defy nature. Sephiroth was supposed to be the culmination of his life's work.

So it seems a little at odds that Hojo would waste his time with Aerith and the NeoMidgar project. He has a habit of dismissing anything and anyone that gets in the way of his limited scope of focus. So I honestly think that Hojo actually intended for Red XIII to eat Aerith.

Well... That's an interesting interpretation of events, but.... the dialogue from the characters doesn't even remotely suggest that being the case. In fact, it's pretty explicitly specific.

IN THE BOARD MEETING


President Shinra:
Hojo. How's the girl?

Hojo:
As a specimen, she is inferior to her mother. I'm still in the process of comparing her to her mother, Ifalna, but for now the difference is 18%.

President Shinra:
How long will the research take?

Hojo:
Probably 120 years. It's probably impossible to finish in our lifetime. Or in the lifetime of the specimen too, for that matter. That's why we're thinking of breeding her. Then we could create one that could withstand our research for a long time.

President Shinra:
What about the Promised Land? Won't it hinder our plans?

Hojo:
That's why I need to plan. The mother is strong... and yet has her weaknesses.



IN HOJO'S LABORATORY



Cloud:
What do you think you're doin'?

Hojo:
Lending a helping hand to an endangered species... Both of them are on the brink of extinction... If I don't help, all these animals will disappear.

Tifa:
...animal? That's terrible! Aeris is a human being!



AFTERWARDS



Red XIII:
I have a right to choose, too. I don't like two-legged things. I apologize for what happened back there. I was merely acting to throw Hojo off guard......
They're very clearly talking about forcibly breeding the two of them, so that he can have a long-lived being with a connection to the Cetra's powers that's also ore capable of withstanding whatever sort of insane research he subjects it to. (Not really all that far of a stretch of morality for him, given how Sephiroth was created, he's full in on human experimentation as-is).

Hojo sees both of them as nothing but animals for him to do his testing on, and each one possesses a quality that he ideally wants in a single test subject. Additionally, he refers to them repeatedly as regular specimens, and while they may not be his primary motive and drive, he's still WAY, WAY into his mad science. If he was gonna kill them off, he'd've sent HO512 up to dispatch them while they were trapped, since it was sent up via the exact same life system and it's a, "ferocious specimen" unlike Red XIII.

Speaking of which:



HO512 is clearly an amalgamate lifeform, which means that Hojo's no stranger to SOME form of species intermingling in his spare time here, and especially when it comes to subjects stored within this specific elevator system of his in his main lab.





X
I hand wave a lot of that as Hojo talking out of the side of his mouth.

Otherwise we're forced to accept that the same man that has been the head of the science department since Gast's exile is insane enough to ignore the basic laws of breeding. HGM-Whatever is not technically 'alive' by the game's inner logic: it flies apart like a mechanical construct when you defeat it. So I imagine that thing was spliced together surgically or built in a test tube, as opposed to the result of breeding.

I know its just head canon, but I'm sticking with it. Final Fantasy VII sometimes needs a helping hand from the individual to steady its wobbly legs.
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Old 02/19/2017   #59
X-SOLDIER
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ChipNoir wrote: I hand wave a lot of that as Hojo talking out of the side of his mouth.

Otherwise we're forced to accept that the same man that has been the head of the science department since Gast's exile is insane enough to ignore the basic laws of breeding. HGM-Whatever is not technically 'alive' by the game's inner logic: it flies apart like a mechanical construct when you defeat it. So I imagine that thing was spliced together surgically or built in a test tube, as opposed to the result of breeding.

I know its just head canon, but I'm sticking with it. Final Fantasy VII sometimes needs a helping hand from the individual to steady its wobbly legs.
If Hojo wanted to B.S. President Shinra, that's one thing, but he doesn't need to continue posturing in front of the AVALANCHE folks if he's up to something else. On top of that and the fact that he didn't sick HO512 on them, it isn't just Hojo we're looking at here. You even have Red XIII talking about how he was acting in order to throw Hojo off, and talking about personal preferences not involving two-legged things. He's very much NOT referring to his dietary tastes, and given Hojo's study of his species, I highly doubt he'd count on the fact that Red XIII would've killed Aerith, let alone consumed her.

Also, Hojo is — without question — ABSOLUTELY insane enough to ignore the basic laws of breeding. Additionally, he goes off about how the equipment there is delicate and he needs to operate it, so there was likely more to it that we (thankfully) never get to see.


If that's your head canon, that's cool. I'm just saying that it doesn't hold up at all with the evidence presented in the game.


(And I'm just throwing it out there — until Before Crisis retconned this, Red XIII was supposed to've been the last of his kind, but still had kids several hundred years later solely in the canon of the OG. Just saying THAT'S the fridge logic that's a bit more awkward the longer you think about it, given the fact that his ability to reproduce with another species was directly covered in-game).



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Shademp – on the subject of my seemingly boundless optimism wrote: After Ungoliant had sucked the light from the trees Telperion and Laurelin, she found that there was a third tree but whose light was too potent and immortal for her to absorb. Thusly, Ungoliant left Valinor in tears for she could not absorb the light of the tree named X-SOLDIER.

#TotzCanon


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Old 02/19/2017   #60
The Twilight Mexican
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I'd also add that Hojo is simply too curious about everything to discard anything without getting the most out of it, and especially not for the sake of single-minded pursuit of a single project. He had even studied LOVELESS of all things enough to know what part of it Genesis was quoting when he showed up in his lab at the end of Chapter 5 of Crisis Core.

Even when Sephiroth was thought dead, Hojo was hardly heartbroken. He found all that had transpired in Nibelheim a curiosity and sought to satisfy that curiosity. He proceeded right into testing his Reunion Theory, and made use of the infantryman (i.e. Cloud) who had survived a fight with Sephiroth as a test subject. He moved on to other things as well, like sending the Turks to find Red XIII.

He simply never stopped studying new things. His ego was bound up in all of it, sure, but his "curiosity as a scientist" (his words) was the motivation behind everything he did.



Anyway, on the topic of the Aerith/Red XIII breeding, it's annoying to me how, by the time of Crisis Core, the developers decided to try sanitizing the obvious implications of what was going on there in the original game. I'm referring to this entry in the Crisis Core Complete Guide's Keyword Collection:

Experiment Cylinder [Strengthening Pod]

A large cylinder in the centre of the Fusion Chamber, and in this game Zack undergoes one of Hojo’s experiments if he goes into it. Its primary usage is to fuse test samples, and in “FFVII” there was also a scene where this almost happens to Aerith and Red XIII in this cylinder.
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