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Final Fantasy VII Remake The remake of FFVII announced at E3 on June 15th, 2015 -- OUR WHOLE LIVES HAVE BEEN LEADING UP TO THIS MOMENT!!

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Old 06/12/2018   #1021
Minato
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He's got his own studio (Luminous Produtions) now, I say let him make his own games now, he's earned it.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1022
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oh

well, it was nice seeing some final fantasy games actually released again before i die
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Old 06/12/2018   #1023
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I am so salty. E3 was supposed to be the chosen one. The Promise Land. Instead, it ended up being North Corel.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1024
Highwind
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Turlast wrote: I am so salty. E3 was supposed to be the chosen one. The Promise Land. Instead, it ended up being North Corel.
Exclusive footage of the FFVII Remake hype train:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0FmvqqmZu0
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Old 06/12/2018   #1025
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I don't know which FMV is more appropriate for the occasion. The catastrophe of North Corel being destroyed or the blue-ball nothingness of the train just stopping. XD
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Old 06/12/2018   #1026
Lucis Caelum
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Lex wrote: His capacity as a director in the HD era is completely untested and won't be made apparent until KH3 releases in January 2019, so stop with your weird Nomura worshipping hyperbole.
WoW stop right there, so me defending Nomura means I workship him? What a leap in logic.

I'll be first in saying upfront none of his contribution to KH since 2010 have been good (they were largely terrible) but that doesn't mean I will trash talk him for stuff that's not true: most of the FF & KH related projects he's been involved were received favourably (I never said universal aclaim) and didn't flop, that's a fact and why he's competent to be involved in many projects, regardless of how much I like or dislike his desicions.

Last edited by Lucis Caelum; 06/12/2018 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1027
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looneymoon wrote:
Lucis Caelum wrote: Or perhaps the game was never in extensive development for as long as you believed and thus never had an astronomical budget.
??? What? We know development began in 2006/2007. There was a good 6-7 year period of split teams, mismanagement, and still releasing/promising bits and bobs of content. I am pretty sure this is well documented.

He's put in charge because he delivers what the executives are expecting. The projects he's being involved have had overall favourable reception from critics and were never outright flops, thus he's a good director indepently of you liking his creative desicions or not.
PS-PS2 era Final Fantasy for Final Fantasy was the best in its genre. Part of the answer to their inability to modernize the series has been to... Kingdom Heartsify it.

It hasn't been as colossal a failure as Sonic adapting to 3D platforming... but I can't help but see some parallels. Why break the formula for more "action oriented" content? Personal tastes comes into play yeah, but there is also a very tangible stagnation in the FF series specifically since transitioning into modern consoles. Is this all Nomura's fault? No. However, is he not one of the biggest creative forces in a company whose flagship series has been struggling for a long time? If SE was truly committed to the level of reinvention that Final Fantasy is specifically known for, then that is the first piece of fat that needs to go. His track record shows that he is better utilized making KH games.

My point is that as long as Square Enix keeps making the same moves that they have been through the last 10-15 years, then all we can do is have lower expectations. I can kinda see that a lot of people here have come to terms with that. But if that means fans are wondering if your games are going to be made at all... that's a really bad thing to be normalizing.
For some reason, Square-Enix has had a tendency to kiddify the sequels to all of their games. Maybe it's the influence of Kingdom Hearts that has made them shy away from gritty material, I don't know, but they seem very averse to creating serious and mature content. See: FF sequels (X-2, the XIII sequels, Revenant Wings, VII compilation), the Mana series, Parasite Eve 3. It's like they're chasing the tripe dragon, the perfect brain-dead and childlike formula that's sure to be a hit. They really don't understand the importance of a good script anymore.

I heard that Final Fantasy XII was going to be a completely different game with Basch as the main character, but SE replaced him with Vaan because they thought a younger character would appeal to their audience more. They decided to meddle in the work of Yasumi Matsuno, who created one of the most popular Final Fantasy games of all time, to do this. I can only guess how the game would have turned out, but it's safe to say that it became more lighthearted and "likable" and less serious as a result of this intervention.

Think of Die Another Day. While Die Another Day was very financially successful, the creators realized that its success was unlikely to be replicated (over the long haul anyways), so they changed course to make Casino Royale instead.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1028
Lex
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Strangelove wrote: oh

well, it was nice seeing some final fantasy games actually released again before i die
I have my issues with Tabata aswell, I certainly don't see him as a saviour. The treatment of female characters in the games he's helmed is very questionable and I'm still of the opinion that XV is a half baked mess, no matter how many cutscenes they add in to attempt to pretend it's not.

Lucis Caelum wrote:
Lex wrote: His capacity as a director in the HD era is completely untested and won't be made apparent until KH3 releases in January 2019, so stop with your weird Nomura worshipping hyperbole.
WoW stop right there, so me defending Nomura means I workship him? What a leap in logic, I'll be first in saying upfront none of his contribution to KH since 2010 have been good (they were largely terrible) but that doesn't mean I will trash talk him for stuff that's not true: most of the FF & KH related projects he's been involved were received favourably (I never said universal aclaim) and didn't flop, that's a fact and why he's competent to be involved in many projects, regardless of how much I like or dislike his desicions.
You were defending him in your previous post specifically with respect to why he has been chosen as a director, when there is zero proof of his competence as a director in the modern gaming landscape. In fact, there happens to be a plethora of evidence that he can be a pain in the ass to work with. He is the new Sakaguchi. The difference is that Sakaguchi actually got shit done and Square fired him as soon as they had an excuse for losing them millions with TSW.

My comment about you worshipping is maybe a little strong, but it's a fact that when people are complaining about Nomura, Tabata or Square Enix in general you tend to jump in to defend Square Enix. You were pretty notorious for it in the XV thread. I'm all for being positive where it's warranted but we should also recognise faults where that's warranted, and not just blindly defend something when the evidence all seems to point in one direction.

It's possible you spend time on other boards where members don't do their due dilligence before commenting on Square Enix, and I'm sure the way you comment comes from a place of frustration at the negativity in the fandom, but I need you to get that the majority of the people who post here (myself included) are well informed of "the facts" and that our interpretation of those "facts" might not lead us to the same conclusions as yours. That's totally fine. It's just a bit rude to imply that a person who thinks Nomura is problematic for development is not considering the facts, when said facts actually back that assertion up.

You are correct to say that games he has been involved with have been positively received. The same is true of hundreds of other Square Enix employees. This tells us nothing as to the reasoning behind his becoming director of the Remake, given that he himself was surprised by it.

Obviously we shouldn't blindly attack Square either. I don't think this situation is entirely Nomura's fault, but as I said previously I definitely think he's a factor.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1029
ForceStealer
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EDIT: Ninja'd. Mostly referring to Sorcerologist's post here

That's not completely false. But we do also tend to overrate the maturity of the games we grew up with, too. They were always targeted to teenagers, and now we're a bunch of old farts.

Inserting a bishie into XII is annoying, but I don't get the impression that it severely altered the course or themes of the game. After all, the chief complaint about Vaan is how unimportant he is to the plot. So I'm not sure they changed very much about the game to get him in. And that was clearly just a play for the Japanese audience, lest the game was much more popular abroad like Metal Gear Solid. Type-0 was regarded as being pretty dark, and XV doesn't exactly go anywhere bright and cheery with its plot. For sequels like X-2, that's cheerier because the shadow that was looming over the world is gone. For things like Crisis Core it's because Zack is an inherently happier character (and he doesn't exactly meet with a Saturday Morning Cartoon end).

As for stagnation/reinvention. For all the things a transition to an action combat system is, how is that NOT reinventing things? On the contrary wouldn't that be more likely to be accused of being reinvented too much? Stagnation isn't the word I would use.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1030
Strangelove
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Lex wrote: I have my issues with Tabata aswell, I certainly don't see him as a saviour. The treatment of female characters in the games he's helmed is very questionable and I'm still of the opinion that XV is a half baked mess, no matter how many cutscenes they add in to attempt to pretend it's not.
i was mostly being facetious, except about 'saving' games in the sense of him actually getting things to release.

i've kept myself in the dark about ffxv until they finish releasing stuff and i can just get it in one go, so the most i know about it is how they ended up majorly patching a whole chapter and tabata's weird comment about how girls would ruin the boy's trip dynamic and also whatever the fuck cidney is wearing (pls patch that out).

i thought crisis core and type-0 were generally decent for female characters barring some primarily costume-related complaints about type-0 (emina and cinq specifically).

and then there's the 3rd birthday and i will carry this grudge to my grave.


what i'm trying to say is

matsuno's strong female characters with tabata's record of actually releasing games
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Old 06/12/2018   #1031
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As an example of what I'm talking about: in Final Fantasy VII, on the trek from Nibelheim to the reactor, one of the grunts disappears after the bridge collapses. Sephiroth then says, "It may sound cold, but we've got no time to search for him."

In Crisis Core, they completely gloss over that fact through a cutesy and contrived stylistic choice that seems to have been inserted for the sole purpose of obfuscation, and never mention the grunt again, because to portray this scene would make Sephiroth look mean and unlikable. And they even take the grunt (sort of) into account, because the grunt was there at the gates and is just not seen afterwards. They also didn't show Sephiroth killing the innocent Nibelheim villagers for the same reason.

They'll always pull their punches when it comes to stuff like this. Maybe it was easier to portray when they were all just a bunch of Legos.

Last edited by Sorcerologist; 06/12/2018 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1032
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Well, it definitely was easier to some things when they were Legos. (And even then sometimes not. But how about some photorealistic chained-up-Celes beating?) But I would be surprised if the photos of the trip being based on the other trooper being lost. Indeed, Sephiroth's line in the original "it may sound cold" already seemed to exist to establish that Sephiroth wasn't evil back then.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1033
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X-SOLDIER wrote: CLOUD IS AT E3!!!!

IN SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE!!!!





X
So... Nintendo's conference had more FFVII than, Sony's or Square's? That's more than just a little messed up...


Also I remember hearing a rumor that they had to start the remake from scratch because they switched teams or something. If that's true, that could also be a reason they have nothing to show.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1034
Tashasaurous
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]
X-SOLDIER wrote: CLOUD IS AT E3!!!!

IN SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE!!!!
I'm surprised Square's even letting Nintendo burrow Cloud again for Super Smash Bros. Didn't think that would happen. Well, better than nothing.

Hopefully Cloud will return for KH3 too.


Dashell wrote: So... Nintendo's conference had more FFVII than, Sony's or Square's? That's more than just a little messed up...

Also I remember hearing a rumor that they had to start the remake from scratch because they switched teams or something. If that's true, that could also be a reason they have nothing to show.
At least we're seeing Cloud again this year.

And yeah, Square's pulled away from CyberConnect2, as I've said, due to the latter not pleasing Square Enix or something. So yeah, it's a saga of both KH3 and FFXV all over again and that's why the Remake's not showing this year.
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Old 06/12/2018   #1035
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I don't think FF has gotten less mature as time has gone on, but I do think they can't get away with showing certain things with the graphical quality. The target demographic has always been teens, and I can understand not wanting to risk the M rating.


As for stagnation/reinvention. For all the things a transition to an action combat system is, how is that NOT reinventing things? On the contrary wouldn't that be more likely to be accused of being reinvented too much? Stagnation isn't the word I would use.
The attempt was made at reinventing, but a lot of the key elements that made Final Fantasies have been rocky in favour of action oriented content. If wanted an action RPG, I would play another series that already does that better.

Maybe stagnation isn't the precise descriptor gameplay wise, but you get my point I'm sure. In the context of the wider gaming world, FF is being left behind. It's not the top dog it was before because there are just better options now.
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