ARCHIVED FORUMS

demonwolf · 09/16/2017

You are awesome Licorice-san. You just saved me prolly a few hours of research on the game's timeline.

But apparently in DoC Deepground could differentiate people who had had Geostigma from people who had not, so wouldn't that mean Aerith's rain cured an intangible something, while something tangible is still left behind to set the patients apart from others?

On the other note, Genesis obviously had some kind of monstrous power still at the end of DoC. So maybe Deepground had allowed him to sleep as a temporary measure instead of risking aggravating him. They never got to using him, cuz, as you said, they didn't have much time before it all went to the dogs.

I used to tell myself and my friends that we can do whatever we want with fanfics, too. Though recently I've developed this stubbornness in regards to trying to see how much of the OG I can respect while still writing what I want to write.

LicoriceAllsorts · 09/16/2017

Same. I only really like fics that are canon-compliant (except for when canon contradicts itself. Sometimes you have to pick a side).

Like I said, it does seem as if Minerva's intervention cured Genesis. I can't remember whether or not he was in a coma from then on, or whether he briefly came to consciousness once Zack carried him to the surface. In any case, it seems as if you have a lot of decisions to make

- just how did Minerva cure Genesis?
- did he continue to harbour Jenova DNA in him after the cure?
- did Shinra get a chance to experiment on him and his DNA or did events move too fast?
- how did he end up in Deepground and why didn't Weiss and the others tear him apart?
- what powers does he still retain?

To the best of my knowledge, canon offers no answers to any of these questions so you're free to make it up.

***The Twilight Mexican*** · 09/16/2017

We know he got to Deepground. Weiss and Nero showed up right after Zack left Banora, and took him with them.

LicoriceAllsorts · 09/16/2017

Yes, but presumably at that point they were under the command of Shinra. They must have been dispatched by Shinra to do this job and took him back to whoever it was at Shinra who wanted him (Hojo?) so they whatever it was they planned to do with him could be done. My question meant - how, after having been recovered by Shinra, did he end up in the bowels of some deep dark cave miles below Midgar? (and not in a specimen tank or a drawer in the morgue?).

***The Twilight Mexican*** · 09/16/2017

I never found it mysterious myself. They were sent to recover him, and did so (and took him to the only place possibly secure enough to hold him: Deepground). They asked him to join their insurrection, and he declined. Then he left (who, other than the Tsviets could have even stood a chance at stopping him?), and hibernated until the planet called on him.

Unless they were able to implant a control chip before he woke up from Zack's beating, there would have been nothing Shin-Ra could do to stop him from leaving. The Tsviets could be ordered to fight him, sure, but they could also make a half-hearted attempt of it.

LicoriceAllsorts · 09/16/2017

I see what you mean, but it does beg the question of what his "cure" involved. If the Jenova DNA in his body was removed, what, if anything, would happen to the powers it bestowed? if it was not removed, then what did his cure consist of - especially since Minerva is supposed to be the embodiment of the Planet and the planet recognises and is hostile to Jenova as a threat. Was his cure similar in nature to the Geostigma cure brought about by Aerith's rain? How strong is he after he is cured?

Yes, it's perfectly possible they took him to Deepground. When did the Deepground insurrection start? I really know nothing about it. At the time of rescuing him, the Deepground operatives, whoever they were (is it Weiss and Nero?) were presumably doing the bidding of their Shinra masters, so they must have taken Genesis back to whoever gave them the order to go pick him up.

Although, how did Shinra even know where Genesis was?

It's all so stupid.

Minato · 09/16/2017

The Twilight Mexican wrote: I never found it mysterious myself. They were sent to recover him, and did so (and took him to the only place possibly secure enough to hold him: Deepground). They asked him to join their insurrection, and he declined. Then he left (who, other than the Tsviets could have even stood a chance at stopping him?), and hibernated until the planet called on him.

Unless they were able to implant a control chip before he woke up from Zack's beating, there would have been nothing Shin-Ra could do to stop him from leaving. The Tsviets could be ordered to fight him, sure, but they could also make a half-hearted attempt of it.

The Retrictors were a fighting unit equal or better then the Tsviets sans Weiss.

demonwolf · 09/16/2017

LicoriceAllsorts wrote:
- just how did Minerva cure Genesis?
- did he continue to harbour Jenova DNA in him after the cure?
- did Shinra get a chance to experiment on him and his DNA or did events move too fast?
- how did he end up in Deepground and why didn't Weiss and the others tear him apart?
- what powers does he still retain?

This. I'm so bloody thankful that I started this thread.

You've just cleared a lot of my uncertainty about whether I would be violating canon or no.

LicoriceAllsorts wrote: how, after having been recovered by Shinra, did he end up in the bowels of some deep dark cave miles below Midgar? (and not in a specimen tank or a drawer in the morgue?).

This is my biggest problem with Genesis's involvement, or lack thereof, during Deepground. This whole time I was under the impression he was confined somewhere in Deepground after refusing to join them (and I still don't remember where I learnt that he'd refused to join Deepground before this thread). But if he'd been completely free and allegedly wanting to protect the Planet, why did he just stand by and watch...idk both AC and DoC happen without doing anything. Some protector.

The Twilight Mexican wrote: Unless they were able to implant a control chip before he woke up from Zack's beating, there would have been nothing Shin-Ra could do to stop him from leaving.

Well, evidently they didn't implant anything in him but....why didn't they? Maybe because they didn't have enough time before he woke up? I just answered my own question. Still, it sounds more like a plot convenience. After Nibelheim incident, I'd imagine ShinRa would be cautious with Genesis.

LicoriceAllsorts wrote: I Was his cure similar in nature to the Geostigma cure brought about by Aerith's rain? How strong is he after he is cured?

I think really strong, especially since the word of god said he wants to protect the world. Knowing SE, he's prolly not a crippled messiah-wanabe.

LicoriceAllsorts wrote: Although, how did Shinra even know where Genesis was?

It's all so stupid.

I chalk it up to their awesome network of spies. Though those hypothetical spies lived up to this notion extremely poorly in the OG, all things considered.

***The Twilight Mexican*** · 09/16/2017

LicoriceAllsorts wrote: I see what you mean, but it does beg the question of what his "cure" involved. If the Jenova DNA in his body was removed, what, if anything, would happen to the powers it bestowed? if it was not removed, then what did his cure consist of - especially since Minerva is supposed to be the embodiment of the Planet and the planet recognises and is hostile to Jenova as a threat. Was his cure similar in nature to the Geostigma cure brought about by Aerith's rain? How strong is he after he is cured?

Those are good questions. I wouldn't know where to begin speculating.

Lic wrote: Yes, it's perfectly possible they took him to Deepground. When did the Deepground insurrection start? I really know nothing about it. At the time of rescuing him, the Deepground operatives, whoever they were (is it Weiss and Nero?) were presumably doing the bidding of their Shinra masters, so they must have taken Genesis back to whoever gave them the order to go pick him up.

They didn't necessarily have to take him to whoever gave the order -- only to where that person ordered them to take him.

In whatever case, they definitely took him to Deepground, per these sources:

https://thelifestream.net/crisis-cor...ania-timeline/
https://thelifestream.net/lifestream...a-scenario-qa/ (sections 6 and 7)

There, he refuses to join the insurrection (it was underway at the same time as the original game; the Tsviets managed to overthrow the Restrictors just in time to end up trapped under Midgar because of Meteor), then puts himself to sleep in that cave seen at the very end of DoC.

Brandon Stark wrote: The Retrictors were a fighting unit equal or better then the Tsviets sans Weiss.

They may or may not risk fighting a powerful opponent (in particular, one they can't turn off with a switch) when they have the Tsviets available to force into battle in their stead. I wouldn't expect them to engage him directly.

Minato · 09/16/2017

The Twilight Mexican wrote: They may or may not risk fighting a powerful opponent (in particular, one they can't turn off with a switch) when they have the Tsviets available to force into battle in their stead. I wouldn't expect them to engage him directly.

The Restrictors are physically there in Deepground though, I find it odd that Genesis was able to arrive unconcious, get woken up, and just be on his way without any pursuit with them on the job.

***The Twilight Mexican*** · 09/16/2017

I agree that it would be odd if they didn't try to stop him at all. I can only conclude that they sent the Tsviets to stop him -- and those guys, of course, wouldn't have actually wanted to.

Minato · 09/16/2017

The Twilight Mexican wrote: I agree that it would be odd if they didn't try to stop him at all. I can only conclude that they sent the Tsviets to stop him -- and those guys, of course, wouldn't have actually wanted to.

Restrictors: Well, go on then.
Weiss: Well we tried sir, but he was so strong. We're sorry.
Restrictor: well, okay as long as you did your best, back to your room it is.

Is not how that would go.

***The Twilight Mexican*** · 09/16/2017

It's not like they would have executed them either, though.

Minato · 09/16/2017

The Twilight Mexican wrote: It's not like they would have executed them either, though.

They can keep sending them after Genesis though. Genesis is down there with the Restrictors and the Tsviets in Deepground and he's not only able to fight them off, he's able to sleep through the affair.

demonwolf · 09/16/2017

Sometimes I resent Genesis's existence just because of how many loose ends he leaves in his wake. Pun intended.

09/16/2017	#17
LicoriceAllsorts Staff Emeritus Legendary Member Donator Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The Edge of My Seat	Same. I only really like fics that are canon-compliant (except for when canon contradicts itself. Sometimes you have to pick a side). Like I said, it does seem as if Minerva's intervention cured Genesis. I can't remember whether or not he was in a coma from then on, or whether he briefly came to consciousness once Zack carried him to the surface. In any case, it seems as if you have a lot of decisions to make - just how did Minerva cure Genesis? - did he continue to harbour Jenova DNA in him after the cure? - did Shinra get a chance to experiment on him and his DNA or did events move too fast? - how did he end up in Deepground and why didn't Weiss and the others tear him apart? - what powers does he still retain? To the best of my knowledge, canon offers no answers to any of these questions so you're free to make it up. __________________ FIFTY SHADES OF TSENG

09/16/2017	#18
*The Twilight Mexican* *Administrator* Great Old One Ex-SeeD-ingly good Join Date: Sep 2009 Age: 35 Sex: Male Location: North Carolina AKA: TresDias, Hawkeye, El Diablo Gato, Martha Jones, Ariadne, Squall of SeeD, Squall_of_SeeD	We know he got to Deepground. Weiss and Nero showed up right after Zack left Banora, and took him with them. __________________ Quexinos wrote: I wish I had been there when Cloud realized he had geostigma. I bet he cried. hito wrote: man i miss flip phones, they were cool and now everything is a boring slab

09/16/2017	#19
LicoriceAllsorts Staff Emeritus Legendary Member Donator Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The Edge of My Seat	Yes, but presumably at that point they were under the command of Shinra. They must have been dispatched by Shinra to do this job and took him back to whoever it was at Shinra who wanted him (Hojo?) so they whatever it was they planned to do with him could be done. My question meant - how, after having been recovered by Shinra, did he end up in the bowels of some deep dark cave miles below Midgar? (and not in a specimen tank or a drawer in the morgue?). __________________ FIFTY SHADES OF TSENG

09/16/2017	#20
*The Twilight Mexican* *Administrator* Great Old One Ex-SeeD-ingly good Join Date: Sep 2009 Age: 35 Sex: Male Location: North Carolina AKA: TresDias, Hawkeye, El Diablo Gato, Martha Jones, Ariadne, Squall of SeeD, Squall_of_SeeD	I never found it mysterious myself. They were sent to recover him, and did so (and took him to the only place possibly secure enough to hold him: Deepground). They asked him to join their insurrection, and he declined. Then he left (who, other than the Tsviets could have even stood a chance at stopping him?), and hibernated until the planet called on him. Unless they were able to implant a control chip before he woke up from Zack's beating, there would have been nothing Shin-Ra could do to stop him from leaving. The Tsviets could be ordered to fight him, sure, but they could also make a half-hearted attempt of it. __________________ Quexinos wrote: I wish I had been there when Cloud realized he had geostigma. I bet he cried. hito wrote: man i miss flip phones, they were cool and now everything is a boring slab Last edited by The Twilight Mexican; 09/16/2017 at 12:33 PM.

09/16/2017	#21
LicoriceAllsorts Staff Emeritus Legendary Member Donator Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The Edge of My Seat	I see what you mean, but it does beg the question of what his "cure" involved. If the Jenova DNA in his body was removed, what, if anything, would happen to the powers it bestowed? if it was not removed, then what did his cure consist of - especially since Minerva is supposed to be the embodiment of the Planet and the planet recognises and is hostile to Jenova as a threat. Was his cure similar in nature to the Geostigma cure brought about by Aerith's rain? How strong is he after he is cured? Yes, it's perfectly possible they took him to Deepground. When did the Deepground insurrection start? I really know nothing about it. At the time of rescuing him, the Deepground operatives, whoever they were (is it Weiss and Nero?) were presumably doing the bidding of their Shinra masters, so they must have taken Genesis back to whoever gave them the order to go pick him up. Although, how did Shinra even know where Genesis was? It's all so stupid. __________________ FIFTY SHADES OF TSENG

09/16/2017	#16
demonwolf Full Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Land where reality doesn't exist	You are awesome Licorice-san. You just saved me prolly a few hours of research on the game's timeline. But apparently in DoC Deepground could differentiate people who had had Geostigma from people who had not, so wouldn't that mean Aerith's rain cured an intangible something, while something tangible is still left behind to set the patients apart from others? On the other note, Genesis obviously had some kind of monstrous power still at the end of DoC. So maybe Deepground had allowed him to sleep as a temporary measure instead of risking aggravating him. They never got to using him, cuz, as you said, they didn't have much time before it all went to the dogs. I used to tell myself and my friends that we can do whatever we want with fanfics, too. Though recently I've developed this stubbornness in regards to trying to see how much of the OG I can respect while still writing what I want to write.

09/16/2017	#22
Minato Elite Member Donator Join Date: Sep 2009 Age: 31 Sex: Yes Location: Close AKA: MarquessLaus, Brandon Stark, Epyon, Mr Foxhound, Doran	The Twilight Mexican wrote: I never found it mysterious myself. They were sent to recover him, and did so (and took him to the only place possibly secure enough to hold him: Deepground). They asked him to join their insurrection, and he declined. Then he left (who, other than the Tsviets could have even stood a chance at stopping him?), and hibernated until the planet called on him. Unless they were able to implant a control chip before he woke up from Zack's beating, there would have been nothing Shin-Ra could do to stop him from leaving. The Tsviets could be ordered to fight him, sure, but they could also make a half-hearted attempt of it. The Retrictors were a fighting unit equal or better then the Tsviets sans Weiss.

09/16/2017	#23
demonwolf Full Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Land where reality doesn't exist	LicoriceAllsorts wrote: - just how did Minerva cure Genesis? - did he continue to harbour Jenova DNA in him after the cure? - did Shinra get a chance to experiment on him and his DNA or did events move too fast? - how did he end up in Deepground and why didn't Weiss and the others tear him apart? - what powers does he still retain? This. I'm so bloody thankful that I started this thread. You've just cleared a lot of my uncertainty about whether I would be violating canon or no. LicoriceAllsorts wrote: how, after having been recovered by Shinra, did he end up in the bowels of some deep dark cave miles below Midgar? (and not in a specimen tank or a drawer in the morgue?). This is my biggest problem with Genesis's involvement, or lack thereof, during Deepground. This whole time I was under the impression he was confined somewhere in Deepground after refusing to join them (and I still don't remember where I learnt that he'd refused to join Deepground before this thread). But if he'd been completely free and allegedly wanting to protect the Planet, why did he just stand by and watch...idk both AC and DoC happen without doing anything. Some protector. The Twilight Mexican wrote: Unless they were able to implant a control chip before he woke up from Zack's beating, there would have been nothing Shin-Ra could do to stop him from leaving. Well, evidently they didn't implant anything in him but....why didn't they? Maybe because they didn't have enough time before he woke up? I just answered my own question. Still, it sounds more like a plot convenience. After Nibelheim incident, I'd imagine ShinRa would be cautious with Genesis. LicoriceAllsorts wrote: I Was his cure similar in nature to the Geostigma cure brought about by Aerith's rain? How strong is he after he is cured? I think really strong, especially since the word of god said he wants to protect the world. Knowing SE, he's prolly not a crippled messiah-wanabe. LicoriceAllsorts wrote: Although, how did Shinra even know where Genesis was? It's all so stupid. I chalk it up to their awesome network of spies. Though those hypothetical spies lived up to this notion extremely poorly in the OG, all things considered.

09/16/2017	#24
*The Twilight Mexican* *Administrator* Great Old One Ex-SeeD-ingly good Join Date: Sep 2009 Age: 35 Sex: Male Location: North Carolina AKA: TresDias, Hawkeye, El Diablo Gato, Martha Jones, Ariadne, Squall of SeeD, Squall_of_SeeD	LicoriceAllsorts wrote: I see what you mean, but it does beg the question of what his "cure" involved. If the Jenova DNA in his body was removed, what, if anything, would happen to the powers it bestowed? if it was not removed, then what did his cure consist of - especially since Minerva is supposed to be the embodiment of the Planet and the planet recognises and is hostile to Jenova as a threat. Was his cure similar in nature to the Geostigma cure brought about by Aerith's rain? How strong is he after he is cured? Those are good questions. I wouldn't know where to begin speculating. Lic wrote: Yes, it's perfectly possible they took him to Deepground. When did the Deepground insurrection start? I really know nothing about it. At the time of rescuing him, the Deepground operatives, whoever they were (is it Weiss and Nero?) were presumably doing the bidding of their Shinra masters, so they must have taken Genesis back to whoever gave them the order to go pick him up. They didn't necessarily have to take him to whoever gave the order -- only to where that person ordered them to take him. In whatever case, they definitely took him to Deepground, per these sources: https://thelifestream.net/crisis-cor...ania-timeline/ https://thelifestream.net/lifestream...a-scenario-qa/ (sections 6 and 7) There, he refuses to join the insurrection (it was underway at the same time as the original game; the Tsviets managed to overthrow the Restrictors just in time to end up trapped under Midgar because of Meteor), then puts himself to sleep in that cave seen at the very end of DoC. Brandon Stark wrote: The Retrictors were a fighting unit equal or better then the Tsviets sans Weiss. They may or may not risk fighting a powerful opponent (in particular, one they can't turn off with a switch) when they have the Tsviets available to force into battle in their stead. I wouldn't expect them to engage him directly. __________________ Quexinos wrote: I wish I had been there when Cloud realized he had geostigma. I bet he cried. hito wrote: man i miss flip phones, they were cool and now everything is a boring slab

09/16/2017	#25
Minato Elite Member Donator Join Date: Sep 2009 Age: 31 Sex: Yes Location: Close AKA: MarquessLaus, Brandon Stark, Epyon, Mr Foxhound, Doran	The Twilight Mexican wrote: They may or may not risk fighting a powerful opponent (in particular, one they can't turn off with a switch) when they have the Tsviets available to force into battle in their stead. I wouldn't expect them to engage him directly. The Restrictors are physically there in Deepground though, I find it odd that Genesis was able to arrive unconcious, get woken up, and just be on his way without any pursuit with them on the job.

09/16/2017	#27
Minato Elite Member Donator Join Date: Sep 2009 Age: 31 Sex: Yes Location: Close AKA: MarquessLaus, Brandon Stark, Epyon, Mr Foxhound, Doran	The Twilight Mexican wrote: I agree that it would be odd if they didn't try to stop him at all. I can only conclude that they sent the Tsviets to stop him -- and those guys, of course, wouldn't have actually wanted to. Restrictors: Well, go on then. Weiss: Well we tried sir, but he was so strong. We're sorry. Restrictor: well, okay as long as you did your best, back to your room it is. Is not how that would go.

09/16/2017	#29
Minato Elite Member Donator Join Date: Sep 2009 Age: 31 Sex: Yes Location: Close AKA: MarquessLaus, Brandon Stark, Epyon, Mr Foxhound, Doran	The Twilight Mexican wrote: It's not like they would have executed them either, though. They can keep sending them after Genesis though. Genesis is down there with the Restrictors and the Tsviets in Deepground and he's not only able to fight them off, he's able to sleep through the affair.