New site staff and Mod, TresDias/Squall_of_SeeD

[Marauder]

Do you guys have better things to do? Is that why you're skirting the issue, giving vague answers, and just generally avoiding the problem?

[The Man]

Mako Eyes wrote:

It's not an insult. I don't find you stupid, or anything negative. But you seem to feel personally invested and quite angry over how we chose him for our reasons, versus another member, for your reasons. Not really a reduction, but an observation. But that's fine, it wasn't meant to be insulting at all.

Dacon left over this, so yeah, I feel pretty invested. I mean, if you guys want to keep making yourselves seem like more and more of a joke, then go right ahead.

He's more qualified because he fulfills our requirements that we wanted and were looking for, and we were the ones making the choice. And the fact he's a new face in the community is essentially what we want. I'm sorry that people didn't like that, but again, this isn't a popularity contest, and we didn't have any one else promised the position or entitled to it.

So in other words, you don't really care what the members want and you're going to do things your way. Glad we've got that out of the way.

Well again, that's where I disagree. I don't think that necessarily makes one more entitled than anyone else who's good for the job. We're not about just adding the olde ones to staff. It takes a good balance of old and new members to offer ideas and perspectives. That goes for lots of things in real life too.

I really fail to see how someone who just joined a message board is going to be as valuable a source of input as someone who's been a member of a board since or near its inception and has had time to get well acquainted with the atmosphere of a place and its strengths and weaknesses. Anyone you add to staff is by nature going to be a fresh voice to staff.

Justification? Isn't a matter of perspective enough?

It helps me understand why you thought it was a good idea, but it doesn't convince me any further that it actually was a good idea.

We added someone new so that they could give us fresh ideas, critiques, and opinions on how things are done here, and what can and shouldn't be done.

I fail to see how any of these things are things that veteran members couldn't do, indeed, I fail to see how veteran members couldn't do any of them better, since they'll already know the place fairly intimately and have a good idea of what needs to change.

If we have an open position again or we start looking to expand, we'll definitely give all members an equal look to see who's qualified. But umm, at this very moment we're not going to add someone to staff now, just to win an argument with you here. That'd be a bit silly.

You don't have to add someone right now. But the next person you appoint should be someone with a history of criticizing staff decisions, if you really want to avoid looking a bit odd here.

[Cat Rage Room]

It helps me understand why you thought it was a good idea, but it doesn't convince me any further that it actually was a good idea.

Well great, but it's not our jobs to do things up to par with the 'Aaron Standard'. What do you expect here? 'YES AARON WE ARE OBLIGATED TO CONVINCE YOU THAT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA'

[The Man]

Mako Eyes wrote:

I honestly didn't think my simple analogy to cops enforcing societal rules would be that much of a problem. So sorry if it came off that way. It was just the first thing to come to mind since I saw a cop earlier today while driving home, writing a guy a ticket.

fair enough

Anyways, a member shouldn't even do that, unless the staffer was acting like a complete bastard, or warning them out of a personal vendetta.

This seems to me a very dangerous assumption to make, especially for a forum whose only significant periods of activity seem to come in times of drama.

[Ryushikaze]

Ⓐaron wrote:

As I said, apparently it failed to get through. I apologise, but as I said, I was hardly alone in failing to read your facetiousness.

Again, hence why I was more explicit about what I meant in my reply.

Do you think that Phobos literally meant to imply that Tres fellated the staff members? Because that's what I'm reading here.

No, but he in vulgar terms expressed the idea that Tres only got the position because of untoward favors performed, to say nothing of calling all the responses of 'all staff' 'condescending bullshit'.

I have a problem with the inconsistency. But you're wrong, I don't have a problem with you being laid back. I wish you were more laid back to be honest. Slightly risqué comments don't need to get form letter warnings.

And normally, I agree. But this isn't about it being risque. This is an accusation, made in jest or no, that was made in incredibly poor judgement. Making off color jokes is one thing. Making off color jokes about someone he doesn't even know is something else entirely.

Hence his warning that he should not make such comments ABOUT PEOPLE in the future unless he knows them well enough so that they it's a joke.

[The Man]

Ted Lange As Your Bartender wrote:

Demanding money from me and 'criticizing' me when I obviously don't deliver is constructive criticism. Okay!

No, I criticised you for making a promise that you weren't willing to follow through with when it was obvious members already had issues with you. The fact that the original promise was obviously a joke was beside the point.

You don't act like it. You bitch and whine about the community,

Where have I done this?

the Staff, 'how this place is run' 'the state of things' here constantly and consistently. It's not like you have the occasional issue about things or whatever. You complain and argue for the sake of complaining and arguing.

Or maybe I complain and argue because I have this most likely delusional fantasy that maybe, one day people will finally come around to the side of logic.

Why don't you pack your e-bags and leave? And no, I'm not saying (or demanding, in any way) this as a mod. I'd tell you this even if I just joined this place or if I was a regular member. I don't understand this. Don't you have anything better to do, Aaron? Don't you?

At the moment I find this more entertaining than anything else I could be doing on a Sunday night, sorry.

[Marauder]

Ted Lange As Your Bartender wrote:

Well great, but it's not our jobs to do things up to par with the 'Aaron Standard'. What do you expect here? 'YES AARON WE ARE OBLIGATED TO CONVINCE YOU THAT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA'

Aaron hasn't even come close to saying that this place is all about pleasing him and making him happy. He's also not saying that you all need to bow down and present your ideas to him first.

Ryushikaze wrote:

But this isn't about it being risque. This is an accusation, made in jest or no, that was made in incredibly poor judgement. Making off color jokes is one thing. Making off color jokes about someone he doesn't even know is something else entirely.

Hence his warning that he should not make such comments ABOUT PEOPLE in the future unless he knows them well enough so that they it's a joke.

It isn't an accusation. Quit putting words where they don't belong. Poor judgment? HAH! Anyone within a mile radius could see that it was a joke, and nothing more. You're just fishing for reasons to warn someone who generally chaps your hide.

[Makoeyes987]

Ⓐaron wrote:

Dacon left over this, so yeah, I feel pretty invested. I mean, if you guys want to keep making yourselves seem like more and more of a joke, then go right ahead.

Dacon left because of RL troubles, and not wanting to get caught up with arguing over the people he didn't like here. There's more important shit in life than this place. From what I understood I thought the only person on staff he said he didn't like was MOG.

So in other words, you don't really care what the members want and you're going to do things your way. Glad we've got that out of the way.

...Now this is where I would say you're putting words in my mouth. It'd be nice if you didn't do the same thing you admonished me for. We never said we don't care what the members think, and we've had members vote for mods before. However in this case, we felt an appointment of someone new who doesn't have their opinions and judgments colored by the previous happenings and interactions with members here, would be a good idea. A blank slate in regards to what goes on here.

I really fail to see how someone who just joined a message board is going to be as valuable a source of input as someone who's been a member of a board since or near its inception and has had time to get well acquainted with the atmosphere of a place and its strengths and weaknesses. Anyone you add to staff is by nature going to be a fresh voice to staff.

Because everyone here on staff is a veteran, and we want a new perspective that isn't one belonging to a veteran or long time member here to give their two cents on matters here. It's a unique and new perspective that hasn't been on staff before.

It helps me understand why you thought it was a good idea, but it doesn't convince me any further that it actually was a good idea.

Well I'm not sure what else I can do to convince you. However, maybe you could be convinced by actually seeing how it works out. It's not like its going to hurt anyone.

[The Man]

Ted Lange As Your Bartender wrote:

Well great, but it's not our jobs to do things up to par with the 'Aaron Standard'. What do you expect here? 'YES AARON WE ARE OBLIGATED TO CONVINCE YOU THAT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA'

Well when someone makes an argument and it isn't countered, that doesn't really reflect well on the staff.

[Cat Rage Room]

No, I criticised you for making a promise that you weren't willing to follow through with when it was obvious members already had issues with you. The fact that the original promise was obviously a joke was beside the point.

So making 'promises' in jest can't be jokes, either? I'm sorry, I'll make sure that next time I say 'First person who gets this answer right/posts/etc' gets a litereal fucking cookie shipped to their house because otherwise, I'd be a lying, promise breaking person, according to your logic.

Where have I done this?

Almost every time you post in this area of the forum. Most of the posts in this topic, for one.

Or maybe I complain and argue because I have this most likely delusional fantasy that maybe, one day people will finally come around to the side of logic

Lately, I've been to bashing my head against a cinderblock with the hope that maybe, maybe a golden egg will pop out. I've been doing this for a long while now with absolutely no success but hopefully one day it'll happen!

[The Man]

Ryushikaze wrote:

Again, hence why I was more explicit about what I meant in my reply.

fair enough

No, but he in vulgar terms expressed the idea that Tres only got the position because of untoward favors performed, to say nothing of calling all the responses of 'all staff' 'condescending bullshit'.

To be honest, I felt pretty damn condescended to by most of them, so I can see where she was coming from. And it's good to see that criticism of the staff was part of the reason she got the warning. Honestly, to me it looks more like it was the suggestion that staff would reward brown nosing that upset the staff than anything else.

[Cat Rage Room]

Well when someone makes an argument and it isn't countered, that doesn't really reflect well on the staff.

But with you there's no such thing as 'I disagree but I'll leave it at that' or 'let's agree to disagree'. When arguing with you, I've noticed you do not stop until you get the answer you want or you're satisfied.

Real life does not work that way buddy!

[Makoeyes987]

Phobos wrote:

It isn't an accusation. Quit putting words where they don't belong. Poor judgment? HAH! Anyone within a mile radius could see that it was a joke, and nothing more. You're just fishing for reasons to warn someone who generally chaps your hide.

Honestly, if that were the case, you would've been warned and banned several pages ago.

Sorry you don't feel the warning was justified bro, but saying someone sucked cock for their position is pretty rude. Especially in a serious thread discussion, and towards a guy you don't even know. Maybe if this was one of your pals and you two were joking around you'd have a point, but....that's not the case. At all.

[Celes Chere]

Phobos wrote:

Do you guys have better things to do?

I don't. That's why my post count is so high. :'c

[The Man]

Mako Eyes wrote:

Dacon left because of RL troubles, and not wanting to get caught up with arguing over the people he didn't like here. There's more important shit in life than this place. From what I understood I thought the only person on staff he said he didn't like was MOG.

Dacon said on MSN that this appointment and staff's poor response to the criticism it generated was the straw that broke the camel's back.

...Now this is where I would say you're putting words in my mouth. It'd be nice if you didn't do the same thing you admonished me for. We never said we don't care what the members think, and we've had members vote for mods before. However in this case, we felt an appointment of someone new who doesn't have their opinions and judgments colored by the previous happenings and interactions with members here, would be a good idea. A blank slate in regards to what goes on here.

I'm sorry, but you explicitly said you wanted someone new on staff regardless of how that would make the members feel. I'm not sure how else I was supposed to read that, other than that you don't care what the members think about staff appointments, which, by the way, are one of the most important aspects of forum politics.

Because everyone here on staff is a veteran, and we want a new perspective that isn't one belonging to a veteran or long time member here to give their two cents on matters here. It's a unique and new perspective that hasn't been on staff before.

Everyone's perspective is a unique and new that hasn't been on staff before, unless they're former staff. The fact that you'd rather have the opinion of someone who doesn't have much experience with the board than the opinion of someone who has identified problems and criticised them speaks volumes about the way this place is run.

Well I'm not sure what else I can do to convince you. However, maybe you could be convinced by actually seeing how it works out. It's not like its going to hurt anyone.

I'm certainly going to give him a chance, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop criticising the way he was appointed.