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Old 07/10/2017   #91
Flintlock
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But people seem to like mashing buttons and grinding. People are strange.
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Old 07/10/2017   #92
Kionae
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Flintlock wrote: But people seem to like mashing buttons and grinding. People are strange.
Sometimes you don't want think. You just want to mindlessly press buttons over and over and over.
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Old 07/10/2017   #93
Jason Tandro
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Ya'll can back the HFIL up. ATB gauge charge time varies based on the skills used. Job roles actually play a part and matter. Yes in the early game there are many places where you can go Gunner / Warrior and just plow through it but there are some amazing fights in that game.

In fairness to you, some jobs were utterly worthless. I have never seen a worse Black Mage in my life...

And, frankly. FFX is not all that tactical, except the super monsters. It's baby's first combat system. Find the party member who one shots the monster on the screen. If it can't be one-shotted use Yuna's Aeons. Rinse and repeat. Though the Zanarkand bosses really shone.
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Old 07/10/2017   #94
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I don't like grinding and I don't find X-2 mindless. I loved the ability to use the best job for every occasion. And timing it so that attacks with different charge times went off together for the combo bonuses is immensely satisfying.

FFX is just rock-paper-scissors. I like it, but it's hardly the pinnacle of strategery, Pokemon requires more thought.

(EDIT: Everything JT said)
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Old 07/10/2017   #95
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Ramza Beoulve wrote: FFX is just rock-paper-scissors.
The rock-paper-scissors aspect may be considered superficial, but having it there makes me feel more involved in battles than I otherwise would be.

The depth for me comes in the list that shows which character's and monster's actions will be up (I forget what that action/turn-list is called). Especially against bosses and dangerous monsters, choosing my actions properly in anticipation for enemy attacks was what truly made me feel that there was depth to the battle system of FFX. The game's toughness (keep in mind I played the PAL version, so there may be differences here) forced me to learn this aspect of the battle system, which I commend it for.
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Old 07/10/2017   #96
Jason Tandro
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^ And that is where it shines, and it's absolutely crucial in the boss fights from the top of Gagazet to Sin. If you don't plan your moves ahead of time you will be crushed... but Aeon Overdrives still exist. Hastega and Slowga still exist. The place where FFX is most tacticaly is not in battle but in the character development phase in the end-game. Knowing what skills to cross and what paths to take Kimahri down, while it's still kind of hand-holdy gives you an element of freedom other games didn't have. Except, you know, FF7 but Materia is the best progression system for magic in the series apart from maybe Espers.
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Old 07/10/2017   #97
ForceStealer
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^Considering that everything since X has had a Sphere Grid-ish progression system, I think it's crazy that they've never emulated Materia again. Not even in VII's own spinoff titles!

And I'll stop posting off-topic, sorry.
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Old 07/10/2017   #98
Jason Tandro
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Chapter 3: It's The Right Thing To Do
(aka "Why is everyone picking on me?!")

Time: Tuesday July 11th to Sunday July 16th

Target: The save point after completing Djose Temple.


So there's a bit of meat on this chapter - an attack on Luca Stadium, the ability to freely explore Luca and build up your Blitzball Team (get Wedge and Jumal, no seriously) and the infamous laughing scene.

We then have the Mi'ihen Highroad, where we will not only learn a lot about the Crusaders, but face off against a monstrous fiend who eats Chocobos! We also meet our first Rin's Travel Agency. Then it's off to Mushroom Rock Road to experience one of the highlights of the game - Operation Mi'ihen. After an intense battle and dealing with the aftermath we head to Djose Temple and get one more Aeon, this time the unique lightning Aeon Ixion.

There's a lot that goes on to be sure, but I think it's still manageable but we can add more time if needed. The people who have started have all got through Chapter 2 ahead of schedule (except... you know... me) so I feel confident with this time, even giving us an extra day pre-emptively. Anyways on to the questions:

Discussion:
  • Given the major revelation we get about Tidus's relationship with Sin, what are your thoughts? How do you think it works as a story element?
  • Dear god we're bringing it up again: What did you think about the laughing scene? You a hater or defender?
  • Question from ChipNoir that I wanted to add: What do you think about the lack of a water-based Aeon in a game surrounded by water? Why no Leviathan, Bismarck etc?
  • Were you able to beat the Chocobo Eater or did you have to walk the Old Road of Shame?
  • Knowing what we know about Yevon, do you think Operation Mi'ihen was worth doing still or was is it a mistake? Not in terms of confirmation bias, do you think the plan itself was foolish or still admirable?
  • What do you think about the use of Ixion instead of the traditional Ramuh for our lightning themed summon this time around?

I know that's more questions than usual, but there is a lot to cover.
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Old 07/10/2017   #99
Kionae
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... I kind of played ahead over the weekend, so...

Chapter 3

Given the major revelation we get about Tidus's relationship with Sin, what are your thoughts? How do you think it works as a story element?
As a story element, I like it. It's something that Tidus has to majorly come to terms with. He's basically agreed to (SPOILER) join a quest who's only goal is to kill his father. Even if he truly hated him, that's pretty heavy to deal with. I think it gives Tidus' character a lot more dimension than he would have had otherwise.

Dear god we're bringing it up again: What did you think about the laughing scene? You a hater or defender?
It's a cute scene, but I can't help by cringe every time I see it because it's just so awkward.

Question from ChipNoir that I wanted to add: What do you think about the lack of a water-based Aeon in a game surrounded by water? Why no Leviathan, Bismarck etc?
I stand by my previous comment that Sin is the water-based Aeon of the game, even though it's not one you can recruit into your repertoire.

Were you able to beat the Chocobo Eater or did you have to walk the Old Road of Shame?
I kicked his butt, no problem.

Knowing what we know about Yevon, do you think Operation Mi'ihen was worth doing still or was is it a mistake? Not in terms of confirmation bias, do you think the plan itself was foolish or still admirable?
I think it was foolhardy, at least in the way it was conducted, and to some extent I almost have to wonder if their Yevon allies only backed them because they expected it to fail. It DID have the ultimate effect of bringing many of the survivor right back into the arms of the church, after all.

Or maybe that's just my biased view of organized religion showing.

What do you think about the use of Ixion instead of the traditional Ramuh for our lightning themed summon this time around?
I don't miss Ramuh. And Ixion's design is fucking awesome, so that's definitely a win. I do take issue with his overdrive being "Thor's Hammer", though. Ixion is from Greek mythology, not Norse.
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Old 07/10/2017   #100
ChipNoir
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I'm marathoning tonight to complete first to chapters and making a mega post. @_@ MUST CATCH UP!
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Old 07/10/2017   #101
Joe
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I will be all caught up hopefully by tomorrow. Just gotta get through Luca
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Old 07/11/2017   #102
Flare
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I've finished chapter 1 now! Ermagerd this game. It's so fun playing it again. I've had several moments where I'm playing and I get some nostalgia/flashbacks of my own to when I first saw scenes and played the game.

It's also got one of my favorite intros ever, hands down. Idk even all of what it is, but when I'm listening to that Otherworld
YouTube Video
song and that Blitzball match starts in Zanarkand, I'm all up in that and totally mezmerized by my tv. (SPOILER) Nothing more epic than watching Sin converge on that city, the people totally unawares as they just watch their favorite sport, Auron walking through the streets, holy fuck it's so gooooood. Pulled me into this game immediately when I first saw it.

Chapter 1 Discussion:
What version of the game are you playing: the original or one of the remasters?

I'm currently playing the original PS2 version because I can play it anytime, but now that I've started I really want to play the PS3 Remaster, which I also own. Problem is PS3 is my parent's and in their room so I'd only be able to play when they're basically out of their room. Tl;dr living situations means they're often in that room when they're home, so
I did have an early save on it. I forget where but if I catch up to it today I might try a jump over and see how it works... if I can have time to play during the day most days, it might be worth it. Otherwise I'll have to stick with the PS2 version and do the Remaster another day.

If you are playing a remaster, which version of the Sphere Grid are you using? How are you finding its progression? If you are playing the original, what do you think about the Sphere Grid in general as a leveling system?

Either version I'd still be playing the original Sphere Grid. I'll try the other one some other day.
I always liked the Sphere Grid; it's fun to make your own characters level up and knowing that eventually, if you want to/play long enough, you can give each character all the abilities. It's pretty to look at too, especially once you really progress in it and pathways are lit up.
I always felt that XIII tried to mimic the Sphere Grid but it just wasn't fun at all. The Sphere Grid is fairly simple, kinda fun, and works good I think as a leveling mechanic.

What do you think about the Cloister of Trial puzzles as a recurring puzzle? Are they too tricky? Too Easy? Just plain annoying?

Ask me again once I've finished them all Well I remember being both anxious and puzzled by them as a kid, a couple were definitely on the tough (or annoying) side for me to figure out.
Nowadays though, they're easier to do and I also remember parts of them. That helps. Just need to remember to get the destruction sphere treasures. (I remember once I went through Djose and missed the treasure. I was devastated. I think I restarted my save )
As a whole I think they're pretty cool tbh. I like the idea of these puzzles being implemented into the game and also as part of the story. I guess if you're stupid you can't be a summoner. But they're unique puzzles and I'd rather have them in the game than not.

What do you think about the drastic shift from the ATB to the CTB system for battles? What about the ability to switch party members on the fly?

I love the CTB system. I never had an issue with ATB but I actually really like this one. It's one of the reasons X is a favorite FF of all time for me. I love how it switches battles from being reflexive in how you plan things in the ATB system, into a strategy where you can analyze each attack and check the Act List to see how it affects the flow of battle. Swapping party members in the fight is also amazing. I basically have nothing but praise for the system, it's so fun. XD I like to say, this is my favorite FF battle system in a game where random battles on the map where still a thing.
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Old 07/11/2017   #103
Omega
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lengthy treatise on why ffx battle system > x-2 incoming
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Old 07/11/2017   #104
Joe
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For all its flaws, I find X-2's battle system to be the most enjoyable of the entire FF franchise.
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Old 07/11/2017   #105
Omega
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tldr ffx's is better because it requires actual thought, x-2's had the potential to involve party member movement which would have been innovative and fucking amazing and dropped the ball so hard that it's ex post facto responsible for the travesty that is blitzball

but I'm from the turn-based side of the tracks
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