ARCHIVED FORUMS

Minato · 05/27/2018

https://youtu.be/rCS7HQOs1mU?t=14m4s

Aerith indeed doesn't state outright that Zack was her boyfriend or that were dating in the original japanese, similarly when Zack and Cloud are on the truck heading for Midgar, Zack doesn't use pronouns that make it clear he is there to see one person specifically either.

Zack still wrote a letter to his parents to tell her about a girl he met though, it just doesn't look like originally Zack and Aerith's relationship had advanced to the stage depicted in Crisis Core, leaving them both to downplay their feelings when bringing it up with Cloud so as to not needlessly spoil their chances to get with the blonde.

Obsidian Fire · 05/27/2018

There's also the chance that at the time of FFVII's development, the devs hadn't decided what kind of relationship Zack and Aerith were to have yet. It might not have been until AC or CC that they decided that yes, Zack and Aerith were going to be a couple. There's a lot of things in the OG that are like that.

Theozilla · 05/27/2018

Chewbaka wrote:

YouTube Video

so i came across this video today and was immediately "triggered", to quote the user literally. however, when he referred to the translation video series, i remember seeing that already, and i don't remember anything like that being said in the video. or, maybe it's just because i don't remember. either way, i'm confused....:T

Check the end of the first page and most of the second page of this thread, there are quite a number of posts discussing that translation difference/revelation, and what the creative narrative intention at the time might have been taking in account other OG material (such as Zack's letter to his parents, and his truck conversion with Cloud) and later Compilation directions.

T@ctic · 05/27/2018

thank you everyone for the information. i will check it out!

T@ctic · 05/28/2018

okay so watching the translation again, i'm assuming that this has something to do with zack being one of the late created characters (unless i have that wrong). aerith was just to have this mysterious potential love interest that was in soldier who resembled cloud, but then that was changed to zack at the end of the game when cloud's memories were revealed?

i don't see how this will affect the RM, though. clearly CC solidified any vagueness in VII, so the most i will anticipate is either aerith using clearer words or a flashback/memory, one that doesn't give much away of course.

anyway, regardless of what i think and/or feel, this was pretty interesting to (re) learn about. i don't blame the translators at all since it's '97 after all and translating was more "what letters can fit in with how many kanji were in the box while making half sense" than making everything flow perfectly. however, due to this, there will be a LOT in the game that fans could mistake as the new content when it's just been correctly translated...lol

T@ctic · 06/29/2018

(SPOILER)

***X-SOLDIER*** · 08/03/2018

YouTube Video

https://kotaku.com/what-going-on-a-d...ese-1828094269

IT'S STILL GOING!!!

X

Theozilla · 08/05/2018

T@ctic wrote: (SPOILER)

Well the @108 dude did also admit in the 9th video
that the original Japanese script being comparatively more vague about Zack and Aerith’s romantic relationship doesn’t automatically equal evidence against it (i.e. a lack of evidence doesn’t not equal evidence proving the contrary), and makes clear in a big spinnig hashtag that he has a Cloud x Aerith bias/preference. Basically because the OG in the original Japanese painted Zack and Aerith’s romantic relationship more vaguely, he prefers to interpret it as having been unrequited, in spite of later entries (or additions to the OG, like Zack’s letter to his parents) explicitly clarifying otherwise (based on his tweets it sounds like he isn’t a huge fan of Crisis Core, or at least it’s fans: https://twitter.com/108/status/948982327165714434?s=21).

EDIT; Skimmed through the newest 10th video, it’s kinda amusing/charming how unabashedly Tim Rogers loves “#Clerith”.

**ForceStealer** · 08/05/2018

On twitter he's been saying he was working on the last two videos, but that they'd both be extra-long.

Can't watch it just yet, but I'm very eager to

Mr. Ite · 08/05/2018

but Disc 2 is where the localization needs the most clarification. So many lines of dialogue are just... wtf.

T@ctic · 08/08/2018

Theozilla wrote:
Well the @108 dude did also admit in the 9th video
that the original Japanese script being comparatively more vague about Zack and Aerith’s romantic relationship doesn’t automatically equal evidence against it (i.e. a lack of evidence doesn’t not equal evidence proving the contrary), and makes clear in a big spinnig hashtag that he has a Cloud x Aerith bias/preference. Basically because the OG in the original Japanese painted Zack and Aerith’s romantic relationship more vaguely, he prefers to interpret it as having been unrequited, in spite of later entries explicitly clarifying otherwise (based on his tweets it sounds like he isn’t a huge fan of Crisis Core, or at least it’s fans).

oh okay, if he is in agreement with the fans' views on CC that makes a tad bit more sense. unfortunate CC still isn't getting the love it deserves

EDIT; Skimmed through the newest 10th video, it’s kinda amusing/charming how unabashedly Tim Rogers loves “#Clerith”.

he's gonna be shook when the remake comes out

**ForceStealer** · 08/08/2018

Watched it yesterday, awesome, fascinating stuff once again. I really like where he surmises things about why the translator did certain things, and even praises him for stuff like going hog-wild with Cid's dialogue. Watching this thing always makes me want to interview VII's localizer, haha.

It is a shame we'll be finished with just disc 2, but I understand these take a crazy amount of time and he's already given us more than was originally planned.

Maybe we could get a bonus episode one day covering just the Lifestream sequence when Cloud's head gets sorted out, that's the disc 2 bit I would most like to see.

Random Nobody · 08/08/2018

T@ctic wrote:

EDIT; Skimmed through the newest 10th video, it’s kinda amusing/charming how unabashedly Tim Rogers loves “#Clerith”.
he's gonna be shook when the remake comes out

I don't see why. If it's anything like the Compilation and the general trend towards the status quo, it'll err on the side of ambiguity.

T@ctic · 08/08/2018

Random Nobody wrote: I don't see why. If it's anything like the Compilation and the general trend towards the status quo, it'll err on the side of ambiguity.

it's pretty much guaranteed that it won't be vauge at all, even if we don't have any information on how the remake goes. it won't make much sense for CC to work that hard on zerith and VII not include it in someway. i mean come on, the last addition to the compilation still found a small way to include zerith, and even that was strong.

honestly, originally it wasn't vauge in the first place but that's imo.

Random Nobody · 08/09/2018

I don't think, textually, it was all that vague either -- and then the Compilation clearly does slant a certain direction, even if it's never explicit. That's what I mean when I say "if it's anything like the Compilation": there's a repetition of themes and character arcs present, which -- by the writers' own admission -- exists because they don't know how to evolve the characters and their relationships without making them "unrecognisable" to the audience. Sephiroth keeps coming back for no good reason (and is now obsessed with Cloud for purposes beyond explanation). Tifa is not allowed to win a fight because she has to get her ass beat so they can do a call back to the well scene. The LTD can't be explicitly resolved because of the romance semi-mechanic in the first game.

CC is good and well, but is a prequel, and it technically doesn't have any bearing on the relevant events of the Original barring all the shitty retcons. And the Remake isn't even in the same continuity. I don't think they're just going to throw the developments in CC away except for maybe Genesis (WE CAN HOPE), but wrt to the LTD I'll be shocked if they don't play up every eyeblink that fans have been fighting over for the past 20 years whilst still leaving enough room for deniability.

05/27/2018	#92
Obsidian Fire Elite Member Ahk Morn! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Fractal Continuum, Azys Lla AKA: The Engineer	There's also the chance that at the time of FFVII's development, the devs hadn't decided what kind of relationship Zack and Aerith were to have yet. It might not have been until AC or CC that they decided that yes, Zack and Aerith were going to be a couple. There's a lot of things in the OG that are like that. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

05/27/2018	#94
T@ctic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 AKA: Orah	thank you everyone for the information. i will check it out! __________________ [SIGPIC]https://images2.imgbox.com/80/3a/Cd0mcfTD_o.png[/SIGPIC] "Anything worth dying for is certainly worth living for." - Catch 22

05/28/2018	#95
T@ctic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 AKA: Orah	okay so watching the translation again, i'm assuming that this has something to do with zack being one of the late created characters (unless i have that wrong). aerith was just to have this mysterious potential love interest that was in soldier who resembled cloud, but then that was changed to zack at the end of the game when cloud's memories were revealed? i don't see how this will affect the RM, though. clearly CC solidified any vagueness in VII, so the most i will anticipate is either aerith using clearer words or a flashback/memory, one that doesn't give much away of course. anyway, regardless of what i think and/or feel, this was pretty interesting to (re) learn about. i don't blame the translators at all since it's '97 after all and translating was more "what letters can fit in with how many kanji were in the box while making half sense" than making everything flow perfectly. however, due to this, there will be a LOT in the game that fans could mistake as the new content when it's just been correctly translated...lol __________________ [SIGPIC]https://images2.imgbox.com/80/3a/Cd0mcfTD_o.png[/SIGPIC] "Anything worth dying for is certainly worth living for." - Catch 22

06/29/2018	#96
T@ctic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 AKA: Orah	(SPOILER) __________________ [SIGPIC]https://images2.imgbox.com/80/3a/Cd0mcfTD_o.png[/SIGPIC] "Anything worth dying for is certainly worth living for." - Catch 22

08/05/2018	#98
Theozilla Epic Member Kaiju Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Age: 29 Sex: Male Location: Oakland, California, USA	T@ctic wrote: (SPOILER) Well the @108 dude did also admit in the 9th video that the original Japanese script being comparatively more vague about Zack and Aerith’s romantic relationship doesn’t automatically equal evidence against it (i.e. a lack of evidence doesn’t not equal evidence proving the contrary), and makes clear in a big spinnig hashtag that he has a Cloud x Aerith bias/preference. Basically because the OG in the original Japanese painted Zack and Aerith’s romantic relationship more vaguely, he prefers to interpret it as having been unrequited, in spite of later entries (or additions to the OG, like Zack’s letter to his parents) explicitly clarifying otherwise (based on his tweets it sounds like he isn’t a huge fan of Crisis Core, or at least it’s fans: https://twitter.com/108/status/948982327165714434?s=21). EDIT; Skimmed through the newest 10th video, it’s kinda amusing/charming how unabashedly Tim Rogers loves “#Clerith”. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by Theozilla; 08/09/2018 at 12:01 AM.

05/27/2018	#91
Minato Elite Member Donator Join Date: Sep 2009 Age: 31 Sex: Yes Location: Close AKA: MarquessLaus, Brandon Stark, Epyon, Mr Foxhound, Doran	https://youtu.be/rCS7HQOs1mU?t=14m4s Aerith indeed doesn't state outright that Zack was her boyfriend or that were dating in the original japanese, similarly when Zack and Cloud are on the truck heading for Midgar, Zack doesn't use pronouns that make it clear he is there to see one person specifically either. Zack still wrote a letter to his parents to tell her about a girl he met though, it just doesn't look like originally Zack and Aerith's relationship had advanced to the stage depicted in Crisis Core, leaving them both to downplay their feelings when bringing it up with Cloud so as to not needlessly spoil their chances to get with the blonde.

08/05/2018	#99
ForceStealer Super Moderator Great Old One Double Growth Join Date: Nov 2008 Age: 34 Sex: Male AKA: Ramza Beoulve, Sonic the Hedgehog, Vash the Stampede	On twitter he's been saying he was working on the last two videos, but that they'd both be extra-long. Can't watch it just yet, but I'm very eager to __________________ hitoshura wrote: Don't belittle my peoples, bitch. We work hard and we do what we're told. And might possibly be Scottish. ultima espio wrote: I'm not sure if it was a BOMB, it could have been MAKO, KING, BEST, or ORBS.

08/05/2018	#100
Mr. Ite Ascended Member Infradian Canadian Join Date: Apr 2010 AKA: Mr. Ite	but Disc 2 is where the localization needs the most clarification. So many lines of dialogue are just... wtf.

08/08/2018	#101
T@ctic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 AKA: Orah	Theozilla wrote: Well the @108 dude did also admit in the 9th video that the original Japanese script being comparatively more vague about Zack and Aerith’s romantic relationship doesn’t automatically equal evidence against it (i.e. a lack of evidence doesn’t not equal evidence proving the contrary), and makes clear in a big spinnig hashtag that he has a Cloud x Aerith bias/preference. Basically because the OG in the original Japanese painted Zack and Aerith’s romantic relationship more vaguely, he prefers to interpret it as having been unrequited, in spite of later entries explicitly clarifying otherwise (based on his tweets it sounds like he isn’t a huge fan of Crisis Core, or at least it’s fans). oh okay, if he is in agreement with the fans' views on CC that makes a tad bit more sense. unfortunate CC still isn't getting the love it deserves EDIT; Skimmed through the newest 10th video, it’s kinda amusing/charming how unabashedly Tim Rogers loves “#Clerith”. he's gonna be shook when the remake comes out __________________ [SIGPIC]https://images2.imgbox.com/80/3a/Cd0mcfTD_o.png[/SIGPIC] "Anything worth dying for is certainly worth living for." - Catch 22

08/08/2018	#102
ForceStealer Super Moderator Great Old One Double Growth Join Date: Nov 2008 Age: 34 Sex: Male AKA: Ramza Beoulve, Sonic the Hedgehog, Vash the Stampede	Watched it yesterday, awesome, fascinating stuff once again. I really like where he surmises things about why the translator did certain things, and even praises him for stuff like going hog-wild with Cid's dialogue. Watching this thing always makes me want to interview VII's localizer, haha. It is a shame we'll be finished with just disc 2, but I understand these take a crazy amount of time and he's already given us more than was originally planned. Maybe we could get a bonus episode one day covering just the Lifestream sequence when Cloud's head gets sorted out, that's the disc 2 bit I would most like to see. __________________ hitoshura wrote: Don't belittle my peoples, bitch. We work hard and we do what we're told. And might possibly be Scottish. ultima espio wrote: I'm not sure if it was a BOMB, it could have been MAKO, KING, BEST, or ORBS.

08/08/2018	#103
Random Nobody Senior Member grave hag Join Date: May 2011	T@ctic wrote: EDIT; Skimmed through the newest 10th video, it’s kinda amusing/charming how unabashedly Tim Rogers loves “#Clerith”. he's gonna be shook when the remake comes out I don't see why. If it's anything like the Compilation and the general trend towards the status quo, it'll err on the side of ambiguity.

08/08/2018	#104
T@ctic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 AKA: Orah	Random Nobody wrote: I don't see why. If it's anything like the Compilation and the general trend towards the status quo, it'll err on the side of ambiguity. it's pretty much guaranteed that it won't be vauge at all, even if we don't have any information on how the remake goes. it won't make much sense for CC to work that hard on zerith and VII not include it in someway. i mean come on, the last addition to the compilation still found a small way to include zerith, and even that was strong. honestly, originally it wasn't vauge in the first place but that's imo. __________________ [SIGPIC]https://images2.imgbox.com/80/3a/Cd0mcfTD_o.png[/SIGPIC] "Anything worth dying for is certainly worth living for." - Catch 22 Last edited by T@ctic; 08/08/2018 at 07:23 PM.

08/09/2018	#105
Random Nobody Senior Member grave hag Join Date: May 2011	I don't think, textually, it was all that vague either -- and then the Compilation clearly does slant a certain direction, even if it's never explicit. That's what I mean when I say "if it's anything like the Compilation": there's a repetition of themes and character arcs present, which -- by the writers' own admission -- exists because they don't know how to evolve the characters and their relationships without making them "unrecognisable" to the audience. Sephiroth keeps coming back for no good reason (and is now obsessed with Cloud for purposes beyond explanation). Tifa is not allowed to win a fight because she has to get her ass beat so they can do a call back to the well scene. The LTD can't be explicitly resolved because of the romance semi-mechanic in the first game. CC is good and well, but is a prequel, and it technically doesn't have any bearing on the relevant events of the Original barring all the shitty retcons. And the Remake isn't even in the same continuity. I don't think they're just going to throw the developments in CC away except for maybe Genesis (WE CAN HOPE), but wrt to the LTD I'll be shocked if they don't play up every eyeblink that fans have been fighting over for the past 20 years whilst still leaving enough room for deniability.