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Old 05/04/2018   #16
LicoriceAllsorts
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If the chocobo driver isn't the guy from the desert outside Corel prison, who is he? Sorry, just re-read the explanation.

Fancy, let me get this straight. I can kick this off by posting a post explaining why Luxiere would beat chocobo driver in a fight?
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Old 05/04/2018   #17
f a n c y
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He's the guy who steers the Chocobo carriage that Tifa rides to Don's place.



And yes! The moment that a player from either team presents an argument, I consider that the moment the 'round' has officially begun. You can try to upset any planning the other team may have by putting this pressure on them, haha.
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Old 05/04/2018   #18
LicoriceAllsorts
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The thing we must never forget about Luxiere is that he's a SOLDIER 2nd class. Not everybody who tries to get into SOLDIER makes the cut (example: Cloud Strife) and not everybody who makes the cut gets promoted to 2nd. Luxiere is one of a select few.

Seconds are STRONG. I mean really superhuman. Maybe not a match for a 1st in his prime, but a more than a match for a weakened 1st, as Zack's battles with Genesis and Angeal at Modeoheim proved.

Seriously, 50 Shinra Infantrymen can't take a 2nd down, so what chance does this chocobo driver have? He's just one of Corneo's henchmen, his bones soggy from vitamin D deficiency after living so many years under the plate. He isn't even hired muscle. He drives the bird cart, for Shiva's sake! Plus, he was born with no eyes which means he can't see what he's swinging at. He won't last five seconds against the lightning reflexes and enhanced senses of our hero 2nd Class Luxiere!
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Old 05/04/2018   #19
f a n c y
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What's that sound?? Sounds like SHOTS BEING FIRED!!



Let the record show that the battle phase of Round 1-1 was initiated by Team Moogle on 4th May, 15:26 GMT.

All players have until...
6th May, 15:26 GMT
...to make their cases.

Here's a link to a time zone converter in case anyone needs it.

Best of luck!


Last edited by f a n c y; 05/05/2018 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 05/05/2018   #20
Minato
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The 50 Shin-RA infantrymen challenge was issued to Zack Fair, who was never just any Second. Zack Fair was being trained to be First by Angeal since well before we begin Crisis Core. The entire reason Zack was issued this challenge in the first place is because he is an exceptionally industrious person who goes out of his way to help others through martial means, takes missions other SOLDIERs are too weak to handle and prides himself as being a protector of Midgar, something the Infantrymen have been given little reason to expect from SOLDIER otherwise.

And Luxiere is undoubtably the prime example of the complacent masses that depreciate the SOLDIER name, the ones that don't deign to exit their floor in Shin-RA HQ unless it is to board a helicopter to be towed to and from their assignments. He is not, as my counterpart would presume to tell you, “your hero”. Every single word out of Luxiere's mouth is either asking for leadership from Zack, expressing his admiration for his betters, lamenting how ill-equipped SOLDIER is too keep going without Lazard, until finally he asks Zack to surrender in his final message, in a last ditch effort to get through the assignment of capturing him without actually ever having to take the sword off his back.

Is this a man you'd trust to pull through when he finds himself in a one on one battle to the death in a strange environment?

Consider what he is up against. Our Chocobo Driver is always on the move as a solo operative, travelling from one corner of the monster-filled Planet to the other tearing three of the most beautiful young women in the world away from their family, friends or lovers away to be delivered as Corneo's would be bride to be every day. He is ruthless and methodical, well versed in how to intimidate someone into passivity for a long ride back to Wall Market without having to raise his hand against a pretty face to blemish it with bruises before presentation time.

This encounter places them in a stranger's home in a sudden desperate fight against an unknown assailant. This is a situation the chocobo driver has placed himself in hundreds if not thousands of time in his pursuit to find Corneo a worthy bride. Everything we know of Luxiere tells us he is a boy, who never expected to have to take care of himself in a grown-ups world.

Cid's home does not offer the standard supply of Materia that Luxiere can expect to be placed in his lunchbox at the onset of every trip out of HQ. It does however house an assault rifle and if it isn't locked and loaded already, surely ammo is stuffed somewhere in this home of a former fighter pilot. The most likely outcome of this encounter is the Chocobo Driver gunning down Luxiere who freezes up, finding himself alone and unequipped to deal with the harsh realities of what life on the Planet can be like for the unprivileged for the first time.
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Old 05/05/2018   #21
BforBrigitta
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LicoriceAllsorts wrote: The thing we must never forget about Luxiere is that he's a SOLDIER 2nd class. Not everybody who tries to get into SOLDIER makes the cut (example: Cloud Strife) and not everybody who makes the cut gets promoted to 2nd. Luxiere is one of a select few.

Seconds are STRONG. I mean really superhuman. Maybe not a match for a 1st in his prime, but a more than a match for a weakened 1st, as Zack's battles with Genesis and Angeal at Modeoheim proved.

Seriously, 50 Shinra Infantrymen can't take a 2nd down, so what chance does this chocobo driver have? He's just one of Corneo's henchmen, his bones soggy from vitamin D deficiency after living so many years under the plate. He isn't even hired muscle. He drives the bird cart, for Shiva's sake! Plus, he was born with no eyes which means he can't see what he's swinging at. He won't last five seconds against the lightning reflexes and enhanced senses of our hero 2nd Class Luxiere!
Chocobo Driver may not have eyes, but he has charisma. So much charisma, in fact, that he's become a well-connected and highly respected figure in the slums. This motherfucker, ruthless and methodical, owns the hobo network in Midgar. He knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy.

He clubs his polygonal hands together and an army of street-hardened hobos are ready to fight for him, and they do.

You cry, they ain't even in Midgar! LITTLE DO YOU KNOW, that carriage is the original tardis and can transport his minions to rock humble old Rocket Town in a jiff. The hobos swarm Luxiere, grabbing chairs, tables, the rifles in Cid's room, gas tanks, pots and pans and lunge at him with their all. The Chocobo Driver opens the door to reveal his Chocobo and it spits in Luxiere's mouth, disarming him. While he's distracted by the foul taste of masticated gysal greens and saliva in his mouth, the hobos grab him. More hobos from the midgar slum appear out of the tardis!carriage and march through the door, angry at capitalism and angry at Shinra, and Luxiere is the perfect representative. Luxiere is supremely outnumbered!

Finally, Luxiere gets his bearings for long enough to remove his helmet, spitting out the last of the Chocobo muck from his mouth. As his vision returns, his acute claustrophobia stemming from a childhood trauma that his military training couldn't quite shake off, returns as he realises the tight space he's in amongst all the clamour from the crowd of hobos that surround him and he becomes paralysed with fear as the hobos enclose on him...

*fade to black*

Background SFX: BOOM BOOM POW POW POW

Last edited by BforBrigitta; 05/05/2018 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 05/05/2018   #22
Elessar
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Evidence of Time Travel:









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Old 05/05/2018   #23
f a n c y
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Friendly reminder to players that as of the 5th May, 15:27 GMT, you have less than 24 hours to sway Spectators.

Here's a link to a time zone converter in case anyone needs it.

Best of luck!

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Old 05/05/2018   #24
LicoriceAllsorts
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Do any of my team-mates want to pick up this ball?
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Old 05/06/2018   #25
Channy
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“I’m following you until the end!”

Those are the words of a loyal SOLDIER, not just any SOLDIER, but a 2nd Class, good friend of the legendary Zack Fair. SOLDIER are more than just corporate dogs, they’re human, born and bred on ththe battlefield and with that comes undying comroderie, fealty to your fellow man whether he is above or below you in Class. Luxiere looked up to Zack, admired him without a shred of jealousy or ulterior motive to throw him under the bus.

“.....”

These are the words... wait, are there words? Oh right, this is a charismaticless shell of a character who isn’t even worth one word. The Chocobo Driver. A man not even worth a name. A man from the seedy underbelly of the slums whose sole purpose in life is to find and deliver whores to a deplorable man where they will be a one-time bride and if they don’t make the cut, get fed to his dogs with greedy fingers. “Time travel” is nothing if your job is to take women away from potential loved ones to a man who will pump em and dump em. He may be travelling across the cosmos of the time space continuum but he’s snatching women from their beds to deliver them to Don Corneo’s. A man truly without morals. A man without a name.
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So, why do you come here?
Same as you, I think. I've been here a lot...
You must have a lot going on your mind, I suppose.
Yeah, but I'd rather have nothing for a change. How do you do it?
Well, it comes with practice. I can think of nothing.
I do not feel the need to occupy my mind with nonsense, just to avoid thinking about what really matters.


Last edited by Channy; 05/06/2018 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 05/06/2018   #26
LicoriceAllsorts
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Bforbrigitta wrote: Chocobo Driver may not have eyes, but he has charisma. So much charisma, in fact, that he's become a well-connected and highly respected figure in the slums. This motherfucker, ruthless and methodical, owns the hobo network in Midgar...He clubs his polygonal hands together and an army of street-hardened hobos are ready to fight for him, and they do.

You cry, they ain't even in Midgar! LITTLE DO YOU KNOW, that carriage is the original tardis and can transport his minions to rock humble old Rocket Town in a jiff. The hobos swarm Luxiere, grabbing chairs, tables, the rifles in Cid's room, gas tanks, pots and pans and lunge at him with their all. The Chocobo Driver opens the door to reveal his Chocobo and it spits in Luxiere's mouth, disarming him. While he's distracted by the foul taste of masticated gysal greens and saliva in his mouth, the hobos grab him. More hobos from the midgar slum appear out of the tardis!carriage and march through the door, angry at capitalism and angry at Shinra, and Luxiere is the perfect representative. Luxiere is supremely outnumbered!

Finally, Luxiere gets his bearings for long enough to remove his helmet, spitting out the last of the Chocobo muck from his mouth. As his vision returns, his acute claustrophobia stemming from a childhood trauma that his military training couldn't quite shake off, returns as he realises the tight space he's in amongst all the clamour from the crowd of hobos that surround him and he becomes paralysed with fear as the hobos enclose on him...

*fade to black*

Background SFX: BOOM BOOM POW POW POW
A pleasant fantasy, but only thing Luxiere will be spitting out is the bones of the hobos he's eaten for breakfast - or would, if a SOLDIER 2nd class ever committed anything as dishonourable as cannibalism. Our hero does pause to wonder why, if this seedy shabby chocobo driver truly owns a tardis, he can find nothing better to do with his days than sex trafficking for Don Corneo. Chocodriver clearly doesn't need to earn a living, so he must be doing it because he likes it; because he actively endorses the exploitation of women - and that's not something Luxiere is prepared to tolerate. He went into SOLDIER to make this world a better place, #metoo, and ridding it of this malevolent mafia sidekick and his pimpmobile and his army of disease-riddled cutpurse hobos is one more step in the right direction.

He'd assumed it was going to be a honourable fight, one on one, man to man, mano a mano - and let's be honest here, only in ChocoPimp's dreams are even a hundred hobos going to be a match for one SOLDIER - but if his adversary chooses to fight dirty (no surprises there) - then Luxiere calls every man and woman in SOLDIER for backup. Shinra helicopters can fly the distance between Midgar and Rocket Town in mere minutes (that's canon).

Oh, and unlike Chocopimp and the Hobos, Luxiere doesn't need to rely on finding materia just lying around. A good SOLDIER always comes prepared. Angeal trained them well. He's equipped Wall with +1000 HP Up, Quake with +1000 MP Up, Electrocute, SP Turbo Attack, Mug, and the Phoenix Materia - plus a Genji Shield, a Brutal, a Laurel Crown and a Mog's Amulet, all of which he won on missions.

Nice knowing you, Chocobo Driver....
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Old 05/06/2018   #27
Minato
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I'd like to address a mistake I made in my earlier statement. The 50 Shin-Ra Infantryman challenge is only made available after Chapter 10, when Zack awakes from his coma and has already cut ties with Shin-Ra. It is a fantasy, one unconnected with the actual telling of Zack's journey.
The only time when Zack faces the numbers that the other team means to imply SOLDIER eats for breakfast is during the battle in which he loses his life.
This is the SOLDIER First Class we are talking about, the one Luxiere freely admits he could never measure up to or even be of any real use to as an actual combatant in the field whatsoever. There is no basis in canon for the difference between a human and an average SOLDIER Second Class to be as great as implied here. Before Crisis shows us that when push comes to shove, with the exception of the First Classes and those already sated to become First Class like Zack, Shin-Ra relies on the Turks far more for their most dangerous missions, even when they are freshly recruited from outside Shinra. Experience in the field, like the normal humans in AVALANCHE build up is weighed more heavily then the meager enhancements the mako infusion Hojo didn't partake in offers in this world. And that, our weathered Chocobo Driver has in bulk.
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Old 05/06/2018   #28
solo player sab
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I gotta hand it to Team Chocobo for illustrating these creative and imaginative fables about not only our noble champion, but their own as well...we, Team Moogle, applaud you!

HOWEVER!!!!

What Team Chocobo has failed to do, honorable Spectators, is provide a logical argument for their champion built upon FACTS!!!

As both of my teammates have so eloquently presented, Luxiere is not only a SOLDIER 2ND Class, but a loyal follower and comrade of the hero, Zack Fair!

Cambridge Dictionary wrote: followernoun [ C ] US /ˈfɑl·oʊ·ər/

someone who obeys or supports another person or that person’s ideas: The newly elected governor appeared overcome with emotion as he thanked his followers.
Mail from Luxiere, subject title: 'Your Words' wrote: By the way, I just heard about what you told the rookies
on your first mission after you changed your hairdo.
"Embrace your dreams. And, whatever happens,
protect your SOLDIER honor."
...I was so moved when I heard this,
it's been my personal motto ever since.
I'm following you until the end, Zack
As someone who has taken Zack's words as his personal motto, and as someone who has declared not once, not twice, but THRICE that he is "following [Zack] until the end," it is BLASPHEMY to claim that Luxiere is “the prime example of the complacent masses that depreciate the SOLDIER name” (Minato, 2018). In fact, Luxiere wanted nothing but to assist Zack in any way he could, offering to fill him in on the going-ons in Midgar. This is hardly complacent OR depreciative!

Minato wrote: Is this a man you'd trust to pull through when he finds himself in a one on one battle to the death in a strange environment?
Certainly! Let’s revisit the Cambridge definition of ‘follower,’ shall we? Luxiere is “someone who obeys and supports another person or that person’s ideas.” So what do we know about Zack?

We know he is brimming with kindness; that he is brave and dependable; that he is undoubtedly powerful (Makoeyes987, 2006). But what of his IDEAS?

Makoeyes987 wrote: Although he possessed outstanding skills as a swordsman, his principle was to avoid needless killing. That fact wouldn’t change even if his opponents were monsters
We can easily surmise that Luxiere strives to be all the things that Zack was, as well as embody the ideals that Zack shared with the lower ranks. So while Luxiere may find himself in a fight to death with your local ChocoPimp, and while he may easily win, he probably won’t kill him. Like Zack, needless killing just isn’t his thing.

Minato wrote: Our Chocobo Driver is always on the move as a solo operative, travelling from one corner of the monster-filled Planet to the other…
THIS IS FALSE!!!

FancySycamoreTree wrote: Chocobo Carriage Driver - He steers a Chocobo-drawn carriage through the streets of Sector 6, chauffeuring eligible young women to Don Corneo…
Are you ready Team Chocobo?
This wimp cruises around Sector 6, not the Planet! Unlike Luxiere and his SOLDIER comrades, of course. NEXT.

Minato wrote: Everything we know of Luxiere tells us he is a boy, who never expected to have to take care of himself in a grown-ups world.
FALSE!!! Actually, everything we know of Luxiere tells us he is a SOLDIER 2nd class with as heroic characteristics and intentions as Zack Fair. And can we talk more about how he’s SOLDIER 2nd class?

The trustworthy and reputable Final Fantasy Wiki wrote: SOLDIER members are divided in three classes: 1st Class, 2nd Class, and 3rd Class…New units are recruited as 3rd Class and the best are later promoted to 2nd Class, and only distinguished 2nd Class SOLDIERs reach 1st Class.
Obviously, Luxiere was among the best of his 3rd Class comrades to be promoted to 2nd Class. AND, what his last letter to Zack (that we’re aware of) tells us is that he was close to a promotion, thereby implying that he was, in fact, one of the distinguished SOLDIERs to be considered for 1st Class. So, simply put, Luxiere will KICK SOME ASS.

FURTHERMORE…

B darling, I know you’re my favorite fanfic writer and all, but I wasn’t expecting you to come up with this fiction!

Actual footage of the outcome of this fight:



Oh, and, one last thing?

*beat drops*

Uh, uh, yeah

We out here battlin, why not make it a cipher?
Wipe down these babies like they got diapers
If this was a rap battle our champ would smoke ‘em too
Clownin on deez Choco’s cuz we #1 TEAM MOOG’

We got Channy and Ite, the killaz from Canada
Spittin cold hard truth, you be sayin “I ain’t mad atcha”
Ergo and Licorice goin in hard with the facts
ChocoPimp ain’t got NOTHIN on Lux’s ATTACKS!


*drops mic

So, honorable Spectators, I think you know who the clear winner is. Don't buy into Team Choco's fake news!!!! GO TEAM MOOGLE!!!

Last edited by solo player sab; 05/06/2018 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 05/06/2018   #29
LicoriceAllsorts
Default

Minato wrote: I'd like to address a mistake I made in my earlier statement. The 50 Shin-Ra Infantryman challenge is only made available after Chapter 10, when Zack awakes from his coma and has already cut ties with Shin-Ra. It is a fantasy, one unconnected with the actual telling of Zack's journey.
The only time when Zack faces the numbers that the other team means to imply SOLDIER eats for breakfast is during the battle in which he loses his life.
This is the SOLDIER First Class we are talking about, the one Luxiere freely admits he could never measure up to or even be of any real use to as an actual combatant in the field whatsoever. There is no basis in canon for the difference between a human and an average SOLDIER Second Class to be as great as implied here. Before Crisis shows us that when push comes to shove, with the exception of the First Classes and those already sated to become First Class like Zack, Shin-Ra relies on the Turks far more for their most dangerous missions, even when they are freshly recruited from outside Shinra. Experience in the field, like the normal humans in AVALANCHE build up is weighed more heavily then the meager enhancements the mako infusion Hojo didn't partake in offers in this world. And that, our weathered Chocobo Driver has in bulk.
Luxiere never says he can't measure up to Zack or be as good as him. All he says is that he's looking for leadership and he thinks Zack could be the man. He also says he has a lot of respect for Zack and wants to assist him. Why would he offer to assist him if he had nothing to offer? (Plus, that's the SOLDIER spirit right there: they've got each other's backs). You're confusing Luxiere with the Third Class who got Zack to carry out all his missions. Luxiere clearly has hopes of promotion, since he seems to think that capturing Zack will secure promotion for him. There's no evidence to suggest that Luxiere isn't almost as good as Zack or lacks the potential to become as good as he is. Shinra doesn't rely on the Turks for ALL its most dangerous missions, just most of the ones we see. Luxiere emails Zack at least once from a helicopter taking him to an assignment, so it seems to fly in the face of the evidence to suggest he has no field experience!

Shina was very satisfied with the results of its SOLDIER program and was still running the program during the events of the OG. What it wasn't so satisfied with was its Firsts, its Project G and J sprogs who all went off the rails. Luxiere is a shining example of a successful and honourable SOLDIER operative tried and tested in battlefield conditions.
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Old 05/06/2018   #30
BforBrigitta
Default

Uh, uh, nah, fuckit

Street-hardened and tough in a world that has failed him
His anger and hurt all filling up to the brim
Don’t even think of mentioning Shinra to this guy
He’d burn down their headquarters without batting an eye (hah!)

His superhuman powers awaken upon seeing Luxiere's face
There’s no sympathy to spare, not for this walking SOLDIER disgrace
The Chocobo Driver doesn’t have time to be merciful
He and his hobos about to cop his ass a handful

Trash 'im, drag 'im, whirl 'im around
He'll wish he were never born, that in the womb he were drowned
Hat like a cowboy, hands like an egg
Pummelling this fool until he grovels and begs

You’ll wish you didn’t mess with this Chocobo Driver
More than just an everyman he’s the time-travelling MacGyver
Seemingly harmless but wrong him and he’ll leave you for dead
And Luxiere’s out of chances now OFF WITH HIS HEAD!


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