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Pre-Crisis Final Fantasy VII All content for Before Crisis and Crisis Core focusing on the 8 years, leading directly up until the events of Final Fantasy VII.

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Old 07/26/2017   #151
Clement Rage
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Heheheh... I just wrote a huge post and lost it... I suppose that's as good an omen as any.

TTM, I don't see any huge failures here. This is a games forum, long debates about aspects of a game are par for the course. The worst we can say is that we both wasted our time.

Do you realize this? Regardless of Rufus's motivation, the things you say about endangering the world just do not make any sense whatsoever. At all. You are describing a cackling maniac, but won't acknowledge it.

How does putting himself first in any way make sense of what you claim are attempts to sabotage the effort he has himself been leading to stop Sephiroth's resurrection? How does he benefit from a scenario where the SHM can't be stopped?
I don't feel his options are as binary as that. Cloud is one plan, not the only workable one, as long as he can keep JENOVA out of their hands, he can come up with something else. Two of the SHM were brought to the brink of defeat by one well placed explosive, Cloud is not the only option for defeating them. But withholding information that might best equip Cloud to deal with the threat says that Rufus is prioritising not giving out information that might incriminate him later with the WRO or AVALANCHE over equipping Cloud as best he can. I find his actions inconsistent with someone really afraid of JENOVA puppetry.


Don't confuse how I see the situation, from the point of view of a gameplayer/viwer, with how Rufus sees the situation. I'm not arguing that Cloud should trust Rufus or give him "the benefit of his arc". Cloud will always think Rufus is a self-aggrandising dick and will never trust him. As I keep saying, of course it's easy from my superior vantage point to see what would have been the best course of action, objectively speaking. My point, and I think Tres' point as well (though I cannot speak for him) is that Rufus's actions are understandable and even justifiable, given the fact that he knows much less about Cloud's character development arc than we do.
I don't think I did? I brought up Rufus' past world risking, then you brought up Cloud's, and told me to give Rufus the benefit of his arc when you hadn't mentioned Cloud getting over his too. I didn't think any of those arguments were meant to be in universe.

Long ago, on page six, I said I didn't find Rufus' redemption convincing. I still think his actions as shown equally fit a man that just wants his throne back. I think Case of Shinra is more ambiguous than you're giving it credit, I think it's no coincidence that the Dr dies after both saying he wants JENOVA and saying that he can't provide a cure.
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Octo, and possibly some other people wrote: You should be able to build your side without tearing another down
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Old 07/26/2017   #152
The Twilight Mexican
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Clement wrote: Two of the SHM were brought to the brink of defeat by one well placed explosive ...
Well, if this egregious misunderstanding isn't the perfect note to end on, I don't know what would be ...
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Old 07/28/2017   #153
Clement Rage
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I still don't think I'm wrong, but I'm sorry you got so annoyed, TTM. I wasn't trying to upset anyone.

Well, if this egregious misunderstanding isn't the perfect note to end on, I don't know what would be ...
This is TLS. There's only one perfect note to end on.

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Old 07/29/2017   #154
The Twilight Mexican
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Quexinos wrote: I wish I had been there when Cloud realized he had geostigma. I bet he cried.
hito wrote: man i miss flip phones, they were cool and now everything is a boring slab
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