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Final Fantasy VII Remake The remake of FFVII announced at E3 on June 15th, 2015 -- OUR WHOLE LIVES HAVE BEEN LEADING UP TO THIS MOMENT!!

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Old 01/30/2018   #1486
ForceStealer
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looneymoon wrote: I always got the impression that Crisis Core was well-received due to fleshing out what was already present in FF7 (namely Zack and Aeris). From what I understand, as well-liked that game is, everything to do with Genesis is still pretty much a joke. Is Gackt even a marketable celebrity in Japan anymore?

I bring it up because personally, I don't hold any attachment to anything new the compilation had to offer in terms of plot. Slash fangirls aside, I don't really see anyone having super fond sentiments towards them from anyone else either. I obviously don't think this will happen, but I'd honestly have a lot more respect if Square Enix simply acknowledged its failure, admit that FF7 shouldn't have been a franchise in the first place, and discontinued it with with a solid remake of the original game. I mean, most of the reason I'm not super hype for this remake is simply because I don't like the thought of being reminded of sub par story elements sprinkled into a narrative I genuinely enjoyed in my childhood.

I mean, obviously that isn't gonna happen because Square Enix is a company that wants to make money, and milking unnecessary franchise is a sure fire way of doing that. Also, my opinion doesn't really matter because there is a good chance I'm gonna pass on playing the new game anyway
I get what you're saying, even though I did enjoy the Compilation more than most. But that artwork from the 30th event, especially, has me pretty excited that, in atmosphere at least, they are being very faithful to the original game.

Like I said, I actually like a lot of the Compilation, but it was the Compilation's job to fit into FF7, not the reverse. Keep VII's story as it was, but put in flavor and easter eggs for those in the know or that want it. The vast majority of the Compilation was intentionally, if sloppily, made to be unknown during the events of the main game, so it should stay that way.

They don't need to pretend the Compilation didn't happen, but they should pretend that they did it right, lol. The established plot SAYS that Genesis' existence was covered up. The events of Crisis Core make that pretty laughable, but so what, you said it was covered up, keep it that way. Put any Genesis easter eggs in a post-game optional dungeon in Modeoheim. I like the suggestion that someone else once made of just putting an apple in the corner of the Nibelheim Reactor during the flashback. That's as close as you can come to pleasing everyone. Easily ignored by those of us who want it unchanged, but something for the CC fans to hang their hats on. And like we discussed above about referencing a secret SOLDIER hospital under Midgar in the Shinra library and stuff. People were talking earlier about having President Shinra make mention of the former AVALANCHE with regard to dropping the plate. I'm fine with that because that was already implied in the original FF7 (that AVALANCHE was born in Cosmo Canyon, but Barret had never been there, so someone else must have started one). That would be perfection.

While you can't please everyone, I think that would get them pretty damn close. And that artwork has actually given me a boost of hope, assuming they ever release it, off course.
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Old 01/30/2018   #1487
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"They don't need to pretend the Compilation didn't happen, but they should pretend that they did it right, lol." Yes

Can you imagine the endless arguments over that blue apple in the reactor, and whether or not it's canon that Genesis was there?
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Old 01/31/2018   #1488
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I think I could even grow to like Genesis if the remake goes the extra mile to SHOW US THAT GODDAMN PLAY. For something that the man bases his entire life's ambitions around, it's maddeningly vague to me. I don't care if I literally have to sit through a 20 minute segment, I want to see that play in the remake as an optional sidequest.
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Old 01/31/2018   #1489
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Thanks to cold_spirit for linking this in the Dissidia NT thread. Some of the voice clips are from the original FFVII's script, so this is a neat taste of what we might hear in the remake!
cold_spirit wrote: Their respective chat messages:

YouTube Video


Interesting to see Cloud's AC sword is named "Fusion Sword". Not sure if that was made canon before. I really enjoy Sephiroth's Mako Katana. If SE somehow incorporated that design into the Remake, possibly Sephiroth's weapon in SOLDIER pre-Nibelheim Incident, I wouldn't mind at all.
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Old 01/31/2018   #1490
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I need more of these clips.
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Old 01/31/2018   #1491
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The delivery on some of them is flat or misdirected. I guess the actors weren't given much context for those lines.
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Old 01/31/2018   #1492
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Hopefully within an actual scene it'll be clearer for them. Some of those probably seem pretty random without context.
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Old 01/31/2018   #1493
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Burton was probably asked to liven it down a bit again.
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Old 02/01/2018   #1494
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LicoriceAllsorts wrote: There is a HUGE fandom for Zack, Angeal and Genesis, especially in various pairings with Cloud and Sephiroth, as you can see from AO3.

The 7th most popular pairing in the FFVII fandom is Genesis/Sephiroth
The 8th most popular is Genesis/Cloud
The 9th most popular is Genesis/Cloud/Sephiroth/Angeal/Zack

All of these have more fanfic written for them than Aerith or Aeris/Cloud.

The MOST popular pairing is Cloud/Sephiroth

Cloud features in 3,443 fics
Sephiroth features in 2,467
Zack in 2166
Genesis in 1,140
Angeal in 1,013

Angeal, Zack and Genesis are in the top ten most popular characters.

I don't understand it either.
I think "huge" is pretty relative, especially in the context of what you're talking about here - "vocal minorities" and all that.

Fans that go as far as writing/reading/even caring about fan-fiction and character pairings are a huge minority of any community of people following fiction in the first place.

So I don't think trends among fringes of consumer-bases like that is something that impresses many companies or content creators when they consider where to take their intellectual properties in the future.

AC apparently sold around 4-5 million copies, and CC around 3.2.
FFVII by contrast has sold around 11 million copies.
Of course, many of those sales are bound to be re-buys by people who already bought the game at some earlier point in their life, but I think this might apply to AC as well, with it's multiple versions (DVD, Blue-ray, complete editions etc.). As for CC, it's just not really in the same ball-park regardless.

So in either case, when we're now looking at people who write/read fan-fiction, or cosplay, motivated by the compilation material, we're looking at a pretty slim group of people comparatively to the larger FFVII fan/consumer base.

Most fans I know (and have met over the years) of FFVII - people interested in the remake mind you - wouldn't touch fan-fiction, cosplay or FFVII fan-communities with a ten-foot long pole.
They also aren't particularly fond of the compilation.

Now, of course there's a selection bias, in that if they're my friends, they probably have some overlapping personality traits that would inspire the same kind of dislike for the compilation that I have - but even so, outside of fringe, really obsessive FF fan communities, I hardly ever see anyone who enjoyed the OG praise the compilation.


More generally, to the topic though (end of reply portion) :

As I've said before, this game is its own thing continuity-wise, and is a complete re-write/restructure of the original plot.
As much as I loath the compilation, that's largely not on the basis or opinion that it expands on a story that arguably didn't need it, or that all the ideas present within it are bad - but simply that I find the execution of those ideas to be extremely poor and often thematically inconsistent with the source material in ways that it shouldn't be given they are so closely connected.
Given that the remake is its own thing, I don't have any inherent issue with re-using ideas from the compilation. There are plenty of base ideas introduced in the compilation that could be useful for fleshing out the plot of the remake (For instance, I think in retrospect that the history of the Buster Sword is something I didn't know I wanted until the compilation decided to add it. I didn't like how they did it, but the idea of having it is good IMO)

This is why this topic IMO is slightly confused.
This really isn't a matter of whether "the compilation" makes its way into the remake or not - rather it is how are the using/rewriting the ideas and sequences of the compilation material, if they see fit to use it.

The idea that they'll just straight up reference it as is (I'll pace myself here) very unlikely(take that as you may), but that is not the same as the ideas or characters from the compilation being completely absent.
It's also something I wouldn't want. The compilation is not good enough, IMO to warrant inclusion as is. I think it demands rewrites even more so than the original game.

Putting an apple in the reactor example is a good way of illustrating what I mean :
Doing that would simply be a pure nod to the compilation, implying events that happened in the compilation are equally true for the basis of the remake, even if not shown. That's one way of doing it, but again very unlikely.
More likely is that you could find, say, a location or character from the
compilation that wasn't in the original game, but also doesn't actually completely resemble or seem consistent with the compilation from which its based - although it may make more sense for the remake's new narrative.

So like, maybe there's a Genesis, but he doesn't look like Gackt, doesn't have a wing or site poetry, although he might be there as an additional 1st Class SOLDIER during flash-back after Cloud fixes his memories (not saying that's going to happen, or even that this would be a good thing).

Just saying this - do not to expect compilation material (as in ideas/concept/characters) to be absent, but at the same time do not expect that material to be faithful to the titles from which they were pulled/derived, or to be handled in the same way.

That's probably the most realistic way to approach this work IMO, and I think that could turn out either way.
I don't think basing new ideas on the ideas of the compilation is bad.
The real bad thing IMO would be to simply mindlessly insert references to it, acting as if AC and CC are canon as is to the remake's new narrative.
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Old 02/01/2018   #1495
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@hian

What is your opinion on this particular reference-idea for the remake?

Shademp wrote: It's already been long visualized in my head that the player might find obscure references by hacking into Scarlet's and/or Heidegger's computer(s). The player might then find references to Deepground, Tsviets, Synaptic Net Dives etc either as the names to folders that the player can't open, or as revealed keywords in encrypted documents that the player (or some tech-savvy NPC) have only managed to partially decrypt.

I picture these optional references being available either during the infiltration of Shinra HQ, the "disc 2" revisit to Midgar or after the fall of Shinra (or all of these aforementioned instances).
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Old 02/01/2018   #1496
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I'm sure you're right, hian, but the obsessive creator-fans are a very squeaky wheel, even if they are only a vocal minority.
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Old 02/01/2018   #1497
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s opposed to the dozens of other super secrets that the party/player finds out during FFVII?

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. When I was a kid I was sold on the idea of secrets being so secret that nobody ever finds out but I think when I joined the Navy the concept fell apart as preposterous when you start seeing shit that's supposed to be SUPER SECRET accidentally divulged in emails, voicemail messages, slips of paper that people forget in the mess hall, divulged to their booty calls, etc etc.
Oh, sure, but in that case it's all kinds of random secrets, not specifically all the plot important ones.

I mean, CC and BC have nods, but BC references everything, and it starts becoming very inorganic to have your leads just so happen to interact with every single secret in the setting (and that's for the people whose specific job is dealing with secrets).

Why would Genesis' existence need to be covered up in the first place? It's not like FF7 established that no other SOLDIER 1sts were well known.
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Old 02/01/2018   #1498
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Clement Rage wrote:
s opposed to the dozens of other super secrets that the party/player finds out during FFVII?

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. When I was a kid I was sold on the idea of secrets being so secret that nobody ever finds out but I think when I joined the Navy the concept fell apart as preposterous when you start seeing shit that's supposed to be SUPER SECRET accidentally divulged in emails, voicemail messages, slips of paper that people forget in the mess hall, divulged to their booty calls, etc etc.
Oh, sure, but in that case it's all kinds of random secrets, not specifically all the plot important ones.

I mean, CC and BC have nods, but BC references everything, and it starts becoming very inorganic to have your leads just so happen to interact with every single secret in the setting (and that's for the people whose specific job is dealing with secrets).

Why would Genesis' existence need to be covered up in the first place? It's not like FF7 established that no other SOLDIER 1sts were well known.
Because ShinRa canonically keeps a tight lid on everything they can if it keeps the company from looking bad. That's why they salted the earth as far as Banora is concerned. The idea that there's a super human out there that they can't confirm as dead, but with every bit as strength as Sephiroth would not only make ShinRa look bad, but cause a major panic in the public knowing their beloved government can't protect them from such a threat.

Tifa herself says it: ShinRa controls the news. They rebuilt Nibelhiem from the ground up and hid any of the truth about Sephiroth. Genesis would be just as an important secret to keep. They would have wanted the people to think that Genesis had died in battle, not defected. The idea that super human soldiers created by ShinRa could go rogue and attack the public would be a fatal blow to the trust the people put in them, and risk a mass revolution.

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Old 02/02/2018   #1499
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ChipNoir wrote:
Clement Rage wrote:
s opposed to the dozens of other super secrets that the party/player finds out during FFVII?

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. When I was a kid I was sold on the idea of secrets being so secret that nobody ever finds out but I think when I joined the Navy the concept fell apart as preposterous when you start seeing shit that's supposed to be SUPER SECRET accidentally divulged in emails, voicemail messages, slips of paper that people forget in the mess hall, divulged to their booty calls, etc etc.
Oh, sure, but in that case it's all kinds of random secrets, not specifically all the plot important ones.

I mean, CC and BC have nods, but BC references everything, and it starts becoming very inorganic to have your leads just so happen to interact with every single secret in the setting (and that's for the people whose specific job is dealing with secrets).

Why would Genesis' existence need to be covered up in the first place? It's not like FF7 established that no other SOLDIER 1sts were well known.
Because ShinRa canonically keeps a tight lid on everything they can if it keeps the company from looking bad. That's why they salted the earth as far as Banora is concerned. The idea that there's a super human out there that they can't confirm as dead, but with every bit as strength as Sephiroth would not only make ShinRa look bad, but cause a major panic in the public knowing their beloved government can't protect them from such a threat.

Tifa herself says it: ShinRa controls the news. They rebuilt Nibelhiem from the ground up and hid any of the truth about Sephiroth. Genesis would be just as an important secret to keep. They would have wanted the people to think that Genesis had died in battle, not defected. The idea that super human soldiers created by ShinRa could go rogue and attack the public would be a fatal blow to the trust the people put in them, and risk a mass revolution.
And it's what Reeve/Cait Sith had said before Scarlet and Heidegger were killed.

"All Shinra ever cared about was its own interests, and protecting those interests. That's why SOLDIER—and people like Sephiroth—were created. Fighting, money, power, that's all they ever cared about!"

Why bother revealing these things to the public if it'll just ruin Shinra's reputation anyway? They make false claims on most things to hide the real truth.
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Old 02/02/2018   #1500
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Revealing and investing inordinate sums of money towarda convincing the people that mutiple devasting attacks on Midgar and every place in the world that has a Mako Reactor never happened by people that bear wellknown SOLDIER First Class Genesis' face never happened are different things.
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