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Old 11/11/2016   #346
Random Nobody
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Fascination wrote: So Trump not taking the job seriously and at least trying to do what's best for America and instead letting Mike "electrocute the gays" Pence enact policy would be the best case scenario?

What?
"What's best" is obviously subjective. If Trump taking his job "seriously" is seriously trying to deliver on even half his campaign promises and thus summarised policies (or producing facsimiles and consolations), keep it.

The office of the presidency has never to my knowledge or memory produced a shift towards anything but either neoliberalism or worse. I mean, look at Obama, look at the platform he ran on (which was also unrealistic), and then look at his administration's record.
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Old 11/11/2016   #347
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Yeah so just fuck everything I guess. Good job.
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Old 11/11/2016   #348
Random Nobody
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Fascination wrote: Yeah so just fuck everything I guess. Good job.
Yeah, that's definitely what I said.
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Old 11/11/2016   #349
Dashell
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I realize this was a few pages ago, but a post of mine was quoted as what's wrong with everything and uh...


You guys know I don't support Trump right? I was looking at his page trying to see what his followers saw in him and I found some things that made me go, "Okay that could work out! I like that idea!"... doesn't mean I want him as my president.


Problem is, he's GOING to be my president. I have accepted it. I don't like it, but I've accepted it.

I honestly don't like that someone is trying to say I did something wrong just by joining in on a discussion on how he got elected. That kind of pisses me off. I didn't vote for him. I don't want him, but again, that's who we got. I've already talked about how he's racist, sexist and homophobic and I hope to god he doesn't set us back. I don't feel the need to say it in every post.


If I seem lighthearted at times it's because I typically cope with situations like this with humor. So yeah, maybe I'll add a "Head to the bomb shelters " at the end of my post or something. Doesn't mean I'm not taking the situation seriously, it's just that... might as well get a laugh or two in now BEFORE he gets into office and fucks us all over









and we have to head for the bomb shelters
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Old 11/11/2016   #350
Random Nobody
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A short list of things a person can do when they don't understand some shit:

- ask

(price: $0.00)
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Old 11/11/2016   #351
Trainer Red
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Yeah, I don't support Trump either, but I was getting real tired of seeing all the fearmongering/3rd party vote blamers/hatred on twitter/facebook/tumblr. (oh god, especially tumblr and facebook.)
Honestly, shit like that is why I avoid talking and thinking about politics that much -- it's rather difficult for me to find information/news that isn't biased and hellbent on making the other side look like the villains, and I hate that I have to dig for actual information.

My friend and I were just talking about how it's difficult to make an informed decisions about which politician to vote in for the local government, when they don't offer a lot of information about themselves, like what are their political stances, their plans for what they'll do to help. And if no information is offered about who to vote in, it's going to make me want to bash my face in and drink myself into a coma.

Speaking of, I guess another bright thing about the incoming Trump presidency is that I'll finally have more reasons to drink, and that I'll finally stop having the alcohol tolerance of a stereotypical tiny asian girl.
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Old 11/11/2016   #352
Dashell
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Yeah, I don't support Trump either, but I was getting real tired of seeing all the fearmongering/3rd party vote blamers/hatred on twitter/facebook/tumblr. (oh god, especially tumblr and facebook.)
Yeah I saw a post floating around facebook that said "Hey Florida, this is what we meant when you said you're wasting your vote" and showed how many votes Hillary and Trump got and how many Gary Johnson got... and I guess the point was if people had voted for Hillary instead of Johnson she would have won but here's the thing


There's no way of knowing who those people would have voted for if Gary wasn't an option. Gary is pretty conservative and it's entirely possible all they would have done is widen Trump's lead.

People who voted Harambe on the other hand.. I don't quite understand.
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Old 11/11/2016   #353
Random Nobody
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Dashell wrote:
People who voted Harambe on the other hand.. I don't quite understand.
That's a hoax, though. Unless I'm mistaken, the lion's share of states have a pre-selected list of candidates eligible for write-in (entry on which the candidates themselves must file for). And in cases where this is not so, the contents of the ballots in question are not publicised.
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Old 11/11/2016   #354
CK
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I doubt the people who voted fr Harambe would have voted for either major candidate anyway. He probably got those votes because of my earlier point. People are sick of this two party system and there is no other viable party willing to step up or more likely not getting the coverage to be able to be seen as a viable option. It happens everywhere else most democracies are ruled by a two party system but america is unique in the fact there are only two parties that get any sort of coverage and into the house and senate.

I'm sure a few people did a few write ins its 2016 after all what a year it has been
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Last edited by CK; 11/11/2016 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Need to stop posting from my phone
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Old 11/11/2016   #355
Dashell
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Random Nobody wrote:
Dashell wrote:
People who voted Harambe on the other hand.. I don't quite understand.
That's a hoax, though. Unless I'm mistaken, the lion's share of states have a pre-selected list of candidates eligible for write-in (entry on which the candidates themselves must file for). And in cases where this is not so, the contents of the ballots in question are not publicised.
Yeah I know he didn't get the 15,000 votes but... I'm sure someone voted for him
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Old 11/11/2016   #356
CK
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Like I havent read up on who's who in Parliament in new Zealand but I can tell you there at at least 6 different parties in Parliament right now and there are 4 major ones being labor, national, greens and the Maori party all with at least 5 seats or more and a few lesser parties in the mix as well. I just dont know how it has never changed for you guys especially with all the disenfranchisement going on the last 20 years or so.
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Last edited by CK; 11/11/2016 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 11/11/2016   #357
Random Nobody
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There are a lot of reasons, but how inextricable money and campaigning has become, for one. If you aren't backed by corporate funds, it's unlikely you will ever set foot in even the lowest echelons of the political process. A presidential bid takes dollars in the excess of a dozen million, and that's just at the very earliest phases.

Couple that with the fact that "democratic" selection is winner-take-all and not proportional at any stage, the fact the DNC/RNC and their establishments work hard to tamp out and destroy any offshoots from their party line and/or competitors, the fact that most news media is privatised, the FCC's Fairness Doctrine was struck down, and third parties can't even reach a platform, and you get what you see now. You would have to have some serious grassroots organisation for a third party to threaten the Republican/Democrat establishment, and that just hasn't happened (though maybe it will now that the DNC's beclowned themselves).

It doesn't help that elections at the state and local levels often go ignored (which again, is in large part due to a lack of ready information) and presidential elections are characterised as (and are for some) life-and-death battles in which people feel pressured to sacrifice ideology for the sake of immediate interests and safety.
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Old 11/11/2016   #358
Strangelove
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Jason Tandro wrote:
Dawnbreaker wrote:
@Jason: You're acting like people can be more complex than just being bigoted. I'm sure there's an idiot or two who voted Trump because they actually don't even watch the News or something, but that's about it.
Dawn, I realize this is maybe not want you want to hear right now but bigotry is not the end-all, be-all of a person. It is endemic of greater issues of their upbringing and society and are the worst hallmarks of a human but they do not (necessarily) make up the entirety of the person. Assuming that every bigot out there lives their lives with literally nothing in their lives apart from hatred is far too simplistic. And most bigots out there honestly wouldn't consider themselves bigoted because they fall under the ignorantly racist not the hatefully racist.
Honestly, it might not be the entirety of a person but it's a pretty big wall to surmount. Saying to 'love your local bigot' is a hard request to carry out. They will be other things besides a bigot, but that's one fault too far for some. Especially if, to take from x's post, that bigotry (or incidental support of it) encroaches on your personal safety.

Like it would be if you're a Muslim in America and now your country will have a president who called for banning people like you from entering the country. Living in a country where people are that suspicious of you (or even people who look remotely like you, that is to say brown and wearing different clothing like sihks) that you have to be barred or 'extreme vetted' doesn't make for an atmosphere that feels safe. Never mind that you're more likely to fall off a chair and die than be the victim of an Islamic terror attack in America. Or to die in a right wing terror attack (which for some reason the white community seem to fail at noticing and reporting to the authorities, hmmmmm very suspicious there).

(Just in case it isn't clear that last part is a play on the idea that some blame for terror attacks by Muslims falls on their community but apparently saying "I never suspected he would do something like this" is a fine answer if the guy is white because white mass murderers are mentally ill loners and never radicalised ideologically.)

But people perceive that they are under a bigger threat than statistical analysis would suggest, which is what drives politics now. Like calling Clinton a hawkish warmonger (tho I'm not saying she's not) so you vote for a guy whose idea of international security is "bomb the shit out of them (and their families)" which must have taken weeks to come up with, it's so comprehensive and meticulous. Wanting to force your allies to pay up as you run your military like a pmc sounds great too. Also having even more nukes in the world also seems like a great way to reduce global tension. And let's just waterboard people not because it gets information but because it makes you feel really good to torture people.

I mean, that feels like some ghandi level policy right there.

This might be getting off track down so I'm going to jump back to the opening stuff.

Embracing someone who harbours bigoted beliefs is a burden to be put on people who are already marginalised. That's not to say they are irredeemable, but that redemption is their work to do. And if they aren't going to show that they're willing to make the effort to change, what's in it for the people who have to bear the brunt of that bigotry in their daily lives?

Assuming everyone who voted trump is a white racist/sexist/homophobe/transphobe/etc. might not be the most effective way to go about this, but then this gets spun around as a working class revolt against 'the elites'. (Ignore the fact that the man at the head of this is someone who was born into the world of the elites and built an entire personal brand around that image of a rich and ruthless businessman.) Lot gets made about well-off white liberals sitting around casting judgment on the poor blue-collar everyman on their blogs and biased mainstream media (sometimes by well-off white people through their own blogs and biased media). Like it's all out of touch rich kids and their commie parents.

Like the working class doesn't include the various 60~80% black and latin voters who went for Clinton. Like all trans people have the lifestyle and resources of Caitlyn Jenner. Like all gay people are rich, famous and white like Ellen or Niall Patrick Harris. Like a lot of these people aren't working class or in poverty and aren't worried about job security or wealth inequality. Like they are people with illnesses and disabilities and mental health issues that make getting a job difficult if not impossible and need assistance from the organisations that are likely to be under threat in a republican run state. Like these people are 'the mainstream media'. Like they all have college degrees in 'useless' liberal arts subjects or a degree at all.

So maybe before throwing stones at ivory towers, make sure the glass in your house is covered with notes saying everyone who criticises you is a white hipster with a trust fund and contempt for the 'common (WASP-y) man'.

They might not be pure bigots, but those well-off white people who voted trump probably don't have to deal with the realities of what you're asking people to look past.

Talking about healing the divide might sound more convincing if it weren't coming from people who spent the last 8 years trying to convince people that Obama hated America and wanted to destroy it with socialism and Hillary/the left in general would do the same.
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Old 11/11/2016   #359
CK
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Also just saying guys it is very easy to immigrate to New Zealand from what I have heard the laws are very relaxed compared to most places. Just don't move to Auckland, that place is a shithole. In fact just avoid the North Island entirely. The only thing it has going for it is Hobbiton and Rotarua but that place is just all about volcanic mud plies that literally smell like shit. And if you gain citizenship you can live in Australia also.
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Je me sens étranger

Last edited by CK; 11/11/2016 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 11/11/2016   #360
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YouTube Video


This ain't some random lady, by the way .
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