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Sub-Final Fantasy General discussion for non-numbered Final Fantasies, Final Fantasy-related games, broad Final Fantasy topics, and crossovers.

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Old 12/18/2014   #91
Cat Rage Room
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The Man wrote: No, my point is there's only one Gem Box. You can only give it to one character by definition.
Ah, correct, yes.

The Man wrote: Magic is unquestionably powerful, but the fact that there's a damage cap in this game makes that a bit less important. It's not that difficult to get either physical attacks or magic to hit the damage cap, unless you're running a low-level game.
What I'm saying is; if the argument is; 'Who is the most useless character in FFVI', the answer is pretty much objectively Umaro, since he is unable to do something even as basic as heal, and he definitely can't take advantage of Magic, which is leagues more powerful than almost every other option any character can take, with a few exceptions (none of which Umaro can utilize). Given that every other character can utilize the fantastically powerful option of magic except for Umaro, he wins Most Useless Character.

If a possible counterargument of this is; 'He's useful in the Fanatics Tower', this is still quite not correct, because his status as the Most Useless Character, he can't utilize Magic like everyone else can. The argument of 'well, what if you don't have powerful magic at that point', it's still not correct, because if you have Umaro, that means you must also have Tritoch and Terrato, which also means you also have the means to Level 3 Elemental spells and Quake, some of the most powerful spells in the game.

This isn't even going into the fact that if you can get to the Fanatics Tower, then you have the airship anyway, which means that the entire world is available to you. Given that by the time you have Umaro, are able to access the Fanatics Tower, that means the player also has a wealth of other options avaliable to them to use, all of which are more powerful than Umaro. Meaning that while Umaro can still be of some use in the Tower, he's still less useful than everyone else, making him Most Useless.

As far as Magic vs. Physical, that's still a no brainer. With the exception of stuff like the Lightbringer, Valiant Knife, Fixed Dice, and some other setups, it is actually not that easy to consistently hit for 9999 damage with physical attacks with the way that the damage formulas are set up, and it's certainly not possible for physical attacks as a whole to beat the inherent advantage that Magic has to hit all targets. Basically, if you're consistently hitting for 9999 damage with physical attacks with two or so party members, that means the player has also the opportunity to do the same with Magic for most party members, on all targets, quite some time ago.

The Magic advantage this game has is that significant.
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Old 12/18/2014   #92
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Wait, people actually use Umaro? I don't know whether I should be impressed or judgmental.

I support Penelo, I like that she brings simplicity to the XII cast, a useful mage, and she's adorable.

I have a decent hate of Amarant for not being just a useless add on to a rather excellent IX cast, but he's also irritating in personality. At least Quina is funny and memorable. Sometimes I forget Amarant exists, and when I do remember I'm just annoyed.

But I would put Umaro in there.
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Old 12/19/2014   #93
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Give Umaro some love, people. He slid right into that empty slot in the roster game data like it was programmed for him.
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Old 12/19/2014   #94
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Are we agreed, then, that it's between Umaro and Amarant?
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Old 12/19/2014   #95
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Amarant actually doesn't have bad skills. His Trance form abilities are rad, too.

Storyline wise he's worthless though, yeah.
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Old 12/19/2014   #96
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im laughing really hard because i remember that i named amarant the flaming cheeto
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Old 12/19/2014   #97
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I liked Amarant . I guess in my headcanon thing he was more cool and exciting.
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Old 12/20/2014   #98
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LicoriceAllsorts wrote: Are we agreed, then, that it's between Umaro and Amarant?
Amarant has his uses. Just the fact that he is somewhat annoyingly placed within the plot renders him from completely pointless and forgettable character to someone whose existence you at least realise. Same can't be said for Umaro who unfortunately has absolutely nothing going for him. If it weren't for the battles, one couldn't even dislike him. I would also add Penelo to the list, because If it wasn't for google I wouldn't have even remembered who she is. Same goes pretty much for the whole cast of FFXII. I don't remember ever playing a Final Fantasy game where each one of the characters bored the fuck out of me. It's just a question of which one of them is the most boring. I guess SE also realised this and therefore included the playboy-bunny to somehow enable the player to endure the tedious world-exploring that has been done 100x times better in 10000 other video games.

I would also like to add that Quina is one of the characters that can easily grow on you after the initial dislike. He/She is also potentially very hilarious and definitely adds some replay -value to the game. I emphasise the fact that even if everything else here is a matter of opinion, objectively speaking Quina is far from being a useless character (even if I personally hate her. Him.)

Last edited by SirVival; 12/21/2014 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 12/28/2014   #99
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I just thought of the other place where Umaro is useful: The Colosseum. He is the only character in the entire game that is guaranteed never to do anything stupid in the Colosseum. (I guess you can also change Gogo's commands so (s)he only has Fight, but that seems like a lot of pointless work).
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Old 01/14/2015   #100
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Oh boy, prepare for some ranting:

Final Fantasy IV: Edward. I know his bard skills were useful, but I personally hated him. Though he's redeemed by being the character responsible for one of the best songs in the game.

Final Fantasy V: Bard Role. All the characters can choose a variety again, and once again, I know they can be useful, but I just have no love for bards. Bards were not handled correctly until FFX-2 (YES I SAID IT. SONGSTRESS MAY HAVE HAD ANNOYING SOUND EFFECTS BUT THE SKILLS WORKED WELL AND WERE DAMNED USEFUL)

Final Fantasy VI: Umaro. Yeah I'm sure I'm gonna get some flak, but come on. Yeah he's a very powerful physical attacker and primed well I'm sure he's very useful, but he's uncontrollable, and as a character pretty weak. In terms of sheer pointlessness he probably meets every possible criteria.

Final Fantasy VII: Cait Sith. Though bear in mind, this is only because I had to choose one. Cait Sith I view as useless because of his Limit Breaks which are really the only set-apart ability. There are only two variety and while there is the super effective instakill attack, most of them are pretty unremarkable compared to the others.

Final Fantasy VIII: Quistis, again only going by her Limit Break. I love the character, but her most powerful attack, Shockwave Pulsar, is still woefully unimpressive, compared to Renzokuken, Irvine's Pulse Ammo, Zell's Duel, and Rinoa's Angelo tricks. Even Selphie's Slots can bring up some incredibly powerful options.

Final Fantasy IX: Oh Quina, come on now, what a joke of a character. Okay so here's the deal. We're gonna take the Gau and Strago and combine them into one amorphous blob of a character with a limited backstory, limited vocabulary and limited combat usefulness and call it the 8th character. While I ended up using her more than Amarant (just because I don't personally care for him) I still have to say she is the less useful of the two.

Final Fantasy X: Gonna give it to Wakka on this one, but it was very hard to choose. FFX is the best example of the game working around your party. There are certain types of monsters that can only be defeated by one of the members of your party and then there's Kimahri who is a versatile role and can fill in as a double of anybody (I usually take him down Rikku or Lulu's path myself). So when deciding this I had to factor end-game usefulness and Wakka's status specific skills just become less viable options towards the late stages of the game. He gets nerfed worse than any other character... unless of course you've power-leveled him into Auron's stage in which case he quickly becomes a beast.

FFX-2: Black Mage - Going with roles again for this game and yeah, talk about a nerfed role. You can learn 12 spells, all the main elemental spells. Sure you get "Focus" but that too has been severely nerfed. When you used Focus as Vivi, you were going to wreck somebody. When you use Focus as FFX-2... eh. The role description seems almost sarcastic with its "What spell will you use? Will it be Thundara or Blizzara? Firaga or Waterga?" They may as well have said "Hey... this is pointless after chapter 2"

FFXII: Can't really attest to pointless, but I hate Penelo. And I hate Vaan. The two kids seem so pointlessly wrapped up in the big boys and girls quest. And yes, I know that's the point, but I'd much have preferred dealing with Basche, Balthier, Ashe and Fran and not be broken up by Vaan and Penelo being Vaan and Penelo.


FFXIII: Vanille... I don't hate the sound of her voice... it's actually quite nice. I hate the sound of her voice... all the time. Seriously, this girl never shuts up. And yes, I know the whole element of her is "the light that shines the brightest hides the darkest shadow." but still. She never shuts up. But this is not "which character do you hate" this is "which character is pointless." And for that the answer is Hope. He was the weakest character, and his summon I literally never used. Vanille at least has that beast of a summon which is easily the best and she learns the Death Spell which can be used to bring down even the Long Gui's.

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Old 01/14/2015   #101
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JasonTandro wrote: Final Fantasy X: Gonna give it to Wakka on this one, but it was very hard to choose. FFX is the best example of the game working around your party. There are certain types of monsters that can only be defeated by one of the members of your party and then there's Kimahri who is a versatile role and can fill in as a double of anybody (I usually take him down Rikku or Lulu's path myself). So when deciding this I had to factor end-game usefulness and Wakka's status specific skills just become less viable options towards the late stages of the game. He gets nerfed worse than any other character... unless of course you've power-leveled him into Auron's stage in which case he quickly becomes a beast.
Ah, but seeing how limit breaks were a factor you took into account in other games (though I recognise it was on a last factor basis), can I just remind you of the absolute deliciousness of unleashing Attack Reels? I think I need to take a hit right now. Where's my FFX??
And story-wise, definitely represents a lot, he does.


But anyway, all FF characters are beautiful in their own way. Let us embrace them all.
Nah, I'm joking, get out of my party old man!!
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Old 01/14/2015   #102
LicoriceAllsorts
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Actually, I don't hate Penelo, or Vaan. When I play FFXII I use Penelo quite a lot. As a character I prefer her to the humourless Ashe.
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Old 01/15/2015   #103
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RedFFWolf wrote: Ah, but seeing how limit breaks were a factor you took into account in other games (though I recognise it was on a last factor basis), can I just remind you of the absolute deliciousness of unleashing Attack Reels? I think I need to take a hit right now. Where's my FFX??
And story-wise, definitely represents a lot, he does.


But anyway, all FF characters are beautiful in their own way. Let us embrace them all.
Nah, I'm joking, get out of my party old man!!
Oh yeah I mention that. Attack Reels can be absolutely devastating especially if you've sent Wakka into Auron's territory and boosted his strength to ridiculous levels. TBH, if we're talking Limit Breaks, Auron's is the absolute worst, except possibly Kimahri, but at least Kimahri has Mighty Guard and White Wind to help with versatility.


Licorice:

I thought Ashe and Fran were both greatly disadvantaged by falling into the stereotypical "I am woman, hear me roar" tough girl, but at least they were given distinct personalities aside from that. Though the worst offender of that stereotype is Lightning and I actually really like her as a character. One of my friends once commented that the Japanese don't write female characters very well, and it seems like in some of the later Final Fantasy's they've been relying on some cookie cutter tactics (ahem.. Vanille). But they still manage to work around that in my humble opinion. That said, between the female characters in XII (which to be fair I never actually finished) I rather like Ashe's seriousness to Penelo's playfulness.
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Old 01/15/2015   #104
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One of the things I really enjoy about Penelo are her interactions with Larsa, who is such a great character. If he were crushing on Fran or Ashe it would just feel wrong, as they're too old for him, but Penelo is exactly the right age, just sufficiently older for it to be cute and for us (well, me anyway) to think he might actually have a chance with her in about ten years time. I can forgive Penelo not having a strongly defined character precisely because she is so young. Yes, all in all I'm rather fond of Penelo. I like her much more than Vaan.
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Old 01/15/2015   #105
Splintered
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I remember talking about with Fangu (on her stream maybe? here) about Ashe and the difference between the english and japanese. Ashe sounds less angry in her Japanese version. I mean she's still has little patience, but she's more... regal? There's an emphasis on being driven rather than her looking down on anyone. That's the impression anyway.

I'm a lot more fond of Penelo than Ashe, but I always liked Ashe's story. I never got the impression of "I'm a super strong woman because i'm a huge dick to everyone." Lightning however, did give that impression... and I'm with JasonTandro, once you get into her defrosting the ice queen stage of her character arc, I really liked Lightning.

Maybe I'm okay with cliches, as long as it's a foundation and they craft a good story and character from it, idk.

Then there's Umaro. Lol.
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