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Final Fantasy VII All events from the 1997 classic RPG, with which it all began.

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Old 06/10/2013   #16
Minato
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LicoriceAllsorts wrote: But Cloud never fights Sephiroth on his own, except in the final head to head which I always thought was meant to be taking place in his head (I could well be wrong there, though); he needed backup to defeat Sephiroth in the Crater, and in ACC, since Kadaj was the only remnant to morph into Sephiroth, we could argue that Sephiroth was fighting at 1/3 of his strength.
Quite sure the battle was taking place in the Lifestream rather then Cloud's head.
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Old 06/10/2013   #17
The Twilight Mexican
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LicoriceAllsorts wrote: But Cloud never fights Sephiroth on his own, except in the final head to head which I always thought was meant to be taking place in his head (I could well be wrong there, though); he needed backup to defeat Sephiroth in the Crater, and in ACC, since Kadaj was the only remnant to morph into Sephiroth, we could argue that Sephiroth was fighting at 1/3 of his strength.
One would think so, but it's also just as possible that Sephiroth was the strongest he had ever been during Advent Children. He had been corrupting the Lifestream for two years by that point on top of the power he already had.

I'll have to check the Reunion Files to see if there are any definitive statements about this.
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Old 06/10/2013   #18
Sprites
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@Tres: I could've sworn I heard about something in the reunion files that Sephiroth did not actually fight Cloud at his full strength in ACC not because he couldn't but he chose not to, or it was implied at least, I'm not sure though, I'm sure you'll find a reference to it better than I can.

I'd like to think that Cloud would beat Zack in a fight. I know we've never seen Zack fight without his enhancements but it's implied that he was very naturally gifted anyway. Cloud's a little different because before being imbued with S-Cells he seems to tap into some sort of boost in strength or a limit break in unusual circumstances yes I'm aware that all the FFVII characters can use limits but there's a scene I believe in Before Crisis where he shows off some pretty major sword skills while trying to protect Professor Rayleigh so much so he impresses the Turk with him and let's not forget he was able to hurl Sephiroth of all people into the Mako Pit of the Nibelhiem reactor while seriously injured I highly doubt just any normal person in the same situation could do that. I'd say if he was made to fight an un-enhanced Zack he'd eventually tap into that power surge and kick his ass. It also goes to show that had Cloud had proper training and control over it, he could have been something really special even before being introduced into SOLDIER.

As for with Mako enhancements and this is just my opinion on it but, I'd say Cloud would be stronger not just because he's had more time to now practice but the S-cells didn't seem to react to Zack (already enhanced) whereas Cloud had a major reaction to them and I'm guessing what they went through was much more concentrated and extreme than normal SOLDIER enhancements, so rather than the S-Cells latching onto someone who was already in SOLDIER and getting mixed in with their enhancements which could have diluted the effect, they latched onto an untouched body giving them a free reign to be even stronger than a person just given a normal SOLDIER enhancement.
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Old 06/11/2013   #19
LicoriceAllsorts
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This may be relevant:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4255

YMMV and I can understand the idea that Cloud was the "fated one" with untapped reserves of more than mortal power - But, personally, I like the idea of Cloud being an ordinary guy whose big dreams are crushed by the big corporation and the big city, who has to resign himself to the humiliation of never amounting to anything - then, in a moment of intense personal crisis, he finds the superhuman strength to defeat his fallen idol (see link above), as as result of which he gets experimented on by a lunatic until he becomes the very thing he once dreamed of being.
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Old 06/12/2013   #20
Abortedj
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Question. Are we basing this off canon, or off in game mechanics?
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Old 06/12/2013   #21
Cat Rage Room
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Canon, I'd wager. Game mechanics are usually not really a solid indicator of specifics like this.
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Old 06/12/2013   #22
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In general I would always assume its based on canon unless otherwise stated.
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Old 06/12/2013   #23
The Pyro
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^That'd be the safe assumption around here.
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Old 06/20/2013   #24
X-SOLDIER
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abortedj wrote: Question. Are we basing this off canon, or off in game mechanics?
*ahem*

Here's why you don't go off of game mechanics:

Zack has costly punch. His left hand can somehow totally bypass both physical and magical defenses in a way that has to involve bending the reality of the Final Fantasy universe in ways that completely disregard every other established rule. It is completely unquestionable that, under these circumstances, Cloud would be completely and utterly doomed.



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Old 06/20/2013   #25
ForceStealer
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Unless, of course, Cloud had the same materia and got the first move
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Old 06/20/2013   #26
The Twilight Mexican
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Mutually assured destruction? The Final Fantasy version of a Cold War.
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Old 06/20/2013   #27
Abortedj
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Well as a former boxer, that is the cliche of "never bet on the white guy". Now I think it is fair to say both fighter here are well extremely white. However, given the blond hair, I would say Cloud is just a little more white. So I am given this one to Zack, based entirely off of the oldest boxing joke in the book.
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Old 06/26/2013   #28
X-SOLDIER
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ForceStealer wrote: Unless, of course, Cloud had the same materia and got the first move
Well if we're going off of game mechanics, Cloud also isn't allowed to do anything but stand in place during combat.



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Shademp – on the subject of my seemingly boundless optimism wrote: After Ungoliant had sucked the light from the trees Telperion and Laurelin, she found that there was a third tree but whose light was too potent and immortal for her to absorb. Thusly, Ungoliant left Valinor in tears for she could not absorb the light of the tree named X-SOLDIER.

#TotzCanon


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Old 06/26/2013   #29
LicoriceAllsorts
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ForceStealer wrote: Unless, of course, Cloud had the same materia and got the first move
Or was inexplicably Guarded against Costly Punch like those damn Movers and those Dual Horn thingies, and some other creatures that just killed me when I whacked them and did 0 damage.
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Old 06/26/2013   #30
SirVival
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I think the real question is: Can Zack beat Link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o2SV6ynJYQ

edit: dem bombs
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