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Compilation General Discussions on the entire timeline of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII not limited to a single title, including the tie-ins from Final Fantasy X, and speculation on future content.

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Old 10/27/2017   #1
demonwolf
Default The significance of LOVELESS

I know that the moment you say LOVELESS, you think Genesis, but he doesn't exist in the OG. Can anyone tell me if there was any other significance of LOVELESS in the OG besides a world-building detail? Did the verses exist in the OG or were they created with Genesis for him to recite?

Last edited by demonwolf; 10/27/2017 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 10/27/2017   #2
Mr. Ite
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For some background, here's what we know from the OG (and the real world)



Loveless was a grunge album by the band My Bloody Valentine (or MBV) that came out in the early 90s. It's actually a pretty decent album! The band broke up around the time that FFVII came out, and their front man went Brian-Wilson-levels-of-crazy, becoming an eccentric recluse. Not sure why the folks at Squaresoft decided to make an homage to it, or why they included a Les Mis style pauper in the "ad" for it, but my best guess is that they wanted to give Midgar a Western city feel, by blending concert posters and smash musicals. Also, MBV's story (at the time) was pretty grim, which fits with Midgar's style. Not sure what the significance of 6/25 is. June 25?

Later in FFVII, Cid alludes to the play:

Cid Highwind wrote: You ever see the play 'LOVELESS'? ... Yeah, I figured someone like you wouldn't be much on plays. They've been doin' that play every summer since I was a kid. An' I remember seein' it just once... That was when I was in Midgar interviewing to be a pilot. I had some free time and thought I'd catch the play. Now, I'm no big fan of the theater or anything. But this thing put me to sleep, just like I thought it would. Finally during the last scene, the guy next to me woke me up tellin' me my snorin' was too loud. So about all I really remember of that play is the end... The sister of the lead asks her lover, Do you really have to leave? And the guy says, I promised. The people I love, are waiting. ......I don't understand. Not at all. But...... please take care of yourself. Of course... I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here. I remember thinking when I heard those lines, *&%! What the hell's he talkin' about? But, you know... now I'm not so sure... I think I understand......
Anyway, here's the album.

YouTube Video
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Old 10/27/2017   #3
demonwolf
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Thanks Mr. Ite, so it was more of a "era" thing.
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Old 10/28/2017   #4
Obsidian Fire
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The way Cid describes it made it seem like one of those Shakespeare plays that gets put on ever year in a bunch of different styles/time periods. And Cid is the kind of person who doesn't go for that level of "culture". Like, what he describes feels a lot like what would happen if someone feel asleep during one of Shakespeare's History plays.

Genesis, on the other hand, has the type of background (rich parents) who would be introduced to that kind of stuff and actually like it. You have to at least give SE some credit for not completely making up something new, but instead using something from the OG at least. And for using something from the OG that's so vague that what Genesis says about Loveless doesn't contradict what we know about at least...
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Old 10/28/2017   #5
demonwolf
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Yeah I was looking up the verses on the wiki and realized that you learn a little about LOVELESS from Cid of all people. Such an unlikely person to learn about a cultural play from.

I do agree that SE deserves credit for expanding on LOVELESS in CC rather seamlessly. However, Cid's erm...excerpt...doesn't seem to fit the general theme of the verses. How do I say, the actual verses are more detached compared to. But then he was half awake. Haha. And it was a play with actual actors and convos. He prolly cheapened the vernacular too.

Last edited by demonwolf; 10/28/2017 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 10/28/2017   #6
LicoriceAllsorts
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LOVELESS is terrible poetry.

That said, I think we have to assume that there's a lot more to the play than the thirty lines or however many we hear in Crisis Core. A thirty line play wouldn't be long enough for even Cid to fall asleep in.
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Old 10/28/2017   #7
ForceStealer
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I've made this observation before, but I find it interesting that, for all the things Crisis Core played fast and loose with, Loveless' 3rd act didn't stray very far from Cid's description. It had fancier language, but it's the same the story.

Cid wrote: So about all I really remember of that play is the end... The sister of the lead asks her lover, Do you really have to leave? And the guy says, I promised. The people I love, are waiting. ......I don't understand. Not at all. But...... please take care of yourself. Of course... I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here.
Crisis Core wrote: My friend, do you fly away now?
To a world that abhors you and I?
All that awaits you is a somber morrow
No matter where the winds may blow
My friend, your desire
Is the bringer of life, the gift of the goddess
Even if the morrow is barren of promises
Nothing shall forestall my return

Which either means Cid was just dumbing it down because it was common conversation or, more likely, he saw a modern 'plain English' adaptation. That perhaps also skipped over all the goddess stuff. Which is actually fairly realistic.
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Old 10/28/2017   #8
Odysseus
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I'm pretty sure the Loveless lines Cid tells you are quoted almost verbatim in one of the mails you get in Crisis Core, from Kunsel I think.
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Old 10/28/2017   #9
Teioh
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Yup you're right, it's from one of Kunsel's messages:

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Old 10/29/2017   #10
Mr. Ite
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Genesis was reading the King James Version I guess.
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Old 10/31/2017   #11
Ryuman
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My understanding of Loveless was that it was a play adapted from some poetry verse. Maybe over the years that's something I simply made up in my head.
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Old 10/31/2017   #12
Obsidian Fire
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Just had the thought that the "last line" mention by both Cid and the e-mail isn't actually the last line of the play. Genesis says the play is unfinished and the last act is missing...
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Old 11/17/2017   #13
Clement Rage
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It's like a play by Sophocles or something, some Ancient fragmented text that's been translated dozens of times, and was never found in it's full text in the first place.

Hojo read it for research, and then realised he was reading the Cetra equivalent of the LTD.
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Old 11/17/2017   #14
Tennyo
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Ryuman wrote: My understanding of Loveless was that it was a play adapted from some poetry verse. Maybe over the years that's something I simply made up in my head.
I think this is correct. Loveless is an epic poem adapted for the stage.
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Old 11/18/2017   #15
looneymoon
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Loveless was a pretty rad album by My Bloody Valentine. The album was recorded in something like 20 different studios I'd I remember correctly. The picture in the OG is actually of vocalist Billinda Butcher. I got to see MBV live in Seattle a few years ago for their reunion tour where they played a lot from the Loveless album. The cool Easter egg that added to the grungy 90s aesthetic in FF7 was then turned into a stupid contrived plot device to poorly shoehorn a crappy JPop star into shitty cash-grabbing sequel games.
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