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Go Back   The Lifestream Forums > Final Fantasy > Sub-Final Fantasy > Final Fantasy Tactics

Final Fantasy Tactics All of the Final Fantasy-based tactical role-playing games.

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Old 07/05/2009   #16
Neo Bahamut
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1) That wouldn't be "reinventing" it, though. It'd be more of a "temporary modification," to keep up with the technology metaphor.

2) Essentially, Quickenings go from being WAY overpowered (& the only decent weapons against bosses) to complete shit (against bosses). So...you're kinda fucked when you start running into things like dragons, & their ridiculously high defense. At the very least, the battles become quite lengthy. Plus, there's that luck element people hate, though that doesn't bother me as much. As for Espers, I get the idea of them, but it failed miserably. I spent most of the summon time babysitting the damn things. And, when I tried to be tactical, it blew up in my face for no apparent reason. :Belias will take this fire hit, right? He IS in front of me, afterall..." *charred Ashe.* "Shit, I can't fight 20-something bats at once! I got it, Hellfire--the fuck?! It only took out 1!"

3) It still seems to me like Vayne's characteristics don't match up properly. The point is, I don't like the story. Partly because I don't like the characters. Mostly because they're all rather poorly developed.

...Son of a bitch, I just turned this thread into an argument on the merits of FFXII!
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Old 07/05/2009   #17
Masamune
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Neo Bahamut wrote: 1) That wouldn't be "reinventing" it, though. It'd be more of a "temporary modification," to keep up with the technology metaphor.
Nope, my terminology works.

2. reinvent - create anew and make over

Neo Bahamut wrote: 2) Essentially, Quickenings go from being WAY overpowered (& the only decent weapons against bosses) to complete shit (against bosses). So...you're kinda fucked when you start running into things like dragons, & their ridiculously high defense. At the very least, the battles become quite lengthy. Plus, there's that luck element people hate, though that doesn't bother me as much.
Then you weren't using the Quickenings effectively, because I never had that problem. Also, it would be a terrible learning curve if Quickenings were still overpowered later in the game. What kind of challenge would there be?

Check out this guide, that is if you still have an interest in the game:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/459841/46039

Neo Bahamut wrote: As for Espers, I get the idea of them, but it failed miserably. I spent most of the summon time babysitting the damn things. And, when I tried to be tactical, it blew up in my face for no apparent reason. :Belias will take this fire hit, right? He IS in front of me, afterall..." *charred Ashe.* "Shit, I can't fight 20-something bats at once! I got it, Hellfire--the fuck?! It only took out 1!"
Then you used the wrong tactics.

Again, if you're interested:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/459841/46306

Neo Bahamut wrote: 3) It still seems to me like Vayne's characteristics don't match up properly. The point is, I don't like the story. Partly because I don't like the characters. Mostly because they're all rather poorly developed.
That's because you don't understand the characters - or Vayne at least. You've said his character isn't congruent; then do explain why? Otherwise no one is going to take you seriously.
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Old 07/05/2009   #18
Neo Bahamut
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1) Eh. Whatever.

2) Unfortunately, I don't. And you say I used the wrong tactics, I say I'm not wasting my MP to summon something that is going to get me killed 90% of the time, have no beneficial effect 5% of the time, waste my time 3% of the time, call me rude names 1.5% of the time. The other .5% of the time goes of without a hitch.

3) Vayne is developed. Ill-conceived, but developed all the same. And the whole damn game was a case of, "Why the Hell am I doing this"? after a while. What, on Earth, is so wrong with the Occuria, besides the fact that they'll total dicks? Fundie Mode/it's like when the atheists got prayer taken out of school/Fundie Mode.

...The Hell was that? ...Anyway, I'd really rather not talk about 12. Why? Because when I use "talk" & "XII" in the same sentence, "talk" suddenly changes into "rant for 30-something pages."
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Old 07/05/2009   #19
Masamune
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Neo Bahamut wrote: 2) Unfortunately, I don't. And you say I used the wrong tactics, I say I'm not wasting my MP to summon something that is going to get me killed 90% of the time, have no beneficial effect 5% of the time, waste my time 3% of the time, call me rude names 1.5% of the time. The other .5% of the time goes of without a hitch.
If you don't want to use them tactically, then don't bitch about it. I think the problem here is we're accustomed to summons being powerhouses instead of a strategic chess-pieces.

Neo Bahamut wrote: 3) Vayne is developed. Ill-conceived, but developed all the same. And the whole damn game was a case of, "Why the Hell am I doing this"? after a while. What, on Earth, is so wrong with the Occuria, besides the fact that they'll total dicks? Fundie Mode/it's like when the atheists got prayer taken out of school/Fundie Mode.
Again, I have to question whether you were paying attention. The enemy was the Empire war machine. Dalmasca wanted its freedom after being annexed by enemy forces. The Occuria use their magicks to control the destiny of mankind, but initially Ashe is more concerned with revenge. Then she discovers the worthlessness of it all, and rejects their offerings. It's a refreshing twist to an FF, that the heroes and villains actually fulfil the same purpose.

And I'll reiterate: If you're not going to explain why Vayne is incongruous/ill-conceived, then you have no argument to make.

Neo Bahamut wrote: ...The Hell was that? ...Anyway, I'd really rather not talk about 12. Why? Because when I use "talk" & "XII" in the same sentence, "talk" suddenly changes into "rant for 30-something pages."
If you don't want to talk about it, then please don't dispute my opinion with your so-called "facts", when they're actually your own shortcomings understanding the game.
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Old 07/05/2009   #20
Madame Mayor
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What, on Earth, is so wrong with the Occuria
Other than the fact that they control Ivalice history by manipulating it's leaders?
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Old 07/05/2009   #21
Neo Bahamut
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Balthea: And everything was going pretty well until Archadia decided, "Fuck that noise."

Masamune: I think you should find a way to play FFT. Beat it, then talk to me about strategic chess pieces. I've gotten criticisms like this before. I have no interest in entertaining the equivalent of, "Well, you just don't like the game because you suck at it!" Really, you talk about arguments, but then you sit there & make baseless accusations like, "You just want the summons to be really powerful!" Really? Can you prove that?
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Old 07/05/2009   #22
Madame Mayor
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And everything was going pretty well until Archadia decided, "Fuck that noise."
That's why it's not completely black and white, and therefore an interesting story. What's better, freedom of destiny or destiny being controlled for what certain beings feel is better (not necessarily what is better)?

Beat it, then talk to me about strategic chess pieces.
TBH, even though I know this opinion isn't popular among FF fans, I found FFT to be more like playing chess against a super computer. You can win, but the AI is so frustrating to play against because it feels like every other move they do is cheap. You have to play the battles perfectly and one mistake means you'll lose. It's why I like the Advance games better, the AI wasn't so perfect and one little mistake didn't cost you the entire battle. The game ended up feeling more like homework and that's when I put it down. The story so far wasn't very interesting for me either to want to push forward.

But hey, it's just my opinion of a game I haven't played in years.
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Old 07/05/2009   #23
Masamune
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Neo Bahamut wrote: Really, you talk about arguments, but then you sit there & make baseless accusations like, "You just want the summons to be really powerful!" Really? Can you prove that?
Hardly baseless. Yours is a prevailing issue I've heard from XII naysayers, who argue the Espers are pointless - without bothering to understand how to use them effectively. Fans are accustomed to whipping out a summon, chargin' tha laser, and rinse repeating. Now when an FF actually incorporates them into the atmosphere of the game, it gets criticized.
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Old 07/05/2009   #24
ForceStealer
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Balthea wrote: TBH, even though I know this opinion isn't popular among FF fans, I found FFT to be more like playing chess against a super computer. You can win, but the AI is so frustrating to play against because it feels like every other move they do is cheap. You have to play the battles perfectly and one mistake means you'll lose. It's why I like the Advance games better, the AI wasn't so perfect and one little mistake didn't cost you the entire battle. The game ended up feeling more like homework and that's when I put it down. The story so far wasn't very interesting for me either to want to push forward.
It isn't nearly that punishing. I've managed to fight back from many stupid mistakes. I did make the occasional mistake that may have cost me the battle, but I've done that in normal RPGs too. In fact, because you have so much more time, I think its probably easier to come back from a bad mistake than it is in one of the ATB games. You also have more characters to cover for any mistakes.
I'm not trying to make a "you just suck" argument, I'm trying to say give it another shot and see if you still feel that way.

Question though, does anyone know if the difficulty was ramped up for War of the Lions. I got through it without ever getting really stuck, but I thought it was pretty challenging and I knew a lot of the ins and outs of character classes. I knew none of that when I played the game as an early teenager and I beat it then, so I wonder if they made it harder?

And yeah Masamune, you really do need to play Tactics. Borrow someone's PSP, emulate it, whatever. You won't regret it.
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Old 07/05/2009   #25
Madame Mayor
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I'm not trying to make a "you just suck" argument, I'm trying to say give it another shot and see if you still feel that way.
It's why I said it was just an opinion, and it was more to silence the current argument at hand about FFXII saying, "Well, if it's not your type of game of course you'll think it's broken or stupid, etc."

I really enjoyed FFXII and felt the battles were really smooth, worked well with the way I think, etc. Not so much with Tactics, hence why I didn't like it. However, I don't necessarily think everyone who likes it is stupid for thinking so. If you enjoyed playing the game, then it was a good game. That is the purpose of games after all.

I don't know when I'll get a chance to play it again, sold my PSP and my PS and I doubt it emulated on a computer is very good at all. So I don't think I'll be giving it another shot any time soon.
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Old 07/06/2009   #26
ForceStealer
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Actually, if you have a PS-like controller, Tactics works pretty well on PC. I use this one:

But the superb translation in War of the Lions does make the original tough to recommend.
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hitoshura wrote: Don't belittle my peoples, bitch. We work hard and we do what we're told. And might possibly be Scottish.
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Old 07/06/2009   #27
Madame Mayor
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Actually, if you have a PS-like controller, Tactics works pretty well on PC.
I wasn't worried so much about the controller as I was about it actually running on the PC. I mean, my laptop is pretty good for gaming, but I don't know how much power it would take to run PS game decently.
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Old 07/06/2009   #28
Max Payne
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lol PS Emulation isn't really hardware intensive at all.

If your pc is good for gaming then it can handle ps emulation.
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Old 07/06/2009   #29
Madame Mayor
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Dacon wrote: lol PS Emulation isn't really hardware intensive at all.

If your pc is good for gaming then it can handle ps emulation.
Hmmm, that's good to know. Still don't know if I'll play it again, but good to know it might be an option in the future.
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Old 07/06/2009   #30
HylianMogget
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I've not played Tactics (but I really, really want to) but I thought FFXII and Vagrant Story (is it technically part of the Ivalice Alliance? It's not FF, but it's implied to be in the same world...) were fantastic. FFTA was alright. The plot wasn't extraordinarily engaging, but I still think it's more interesting, or at least more subtle, than it's made out to be - I mean, there's the fantasy vs. reality theme and the fact that if it was any other FF game Marche would be the villain.

I've not finished FFXII: RW - it's fun enough, but it gets repetitive; mainly, though I was thrown off by how different its tone was from FFXII's.
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