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Go Back   The Lifestream Forums > Final Fantasy > Sub-Final Fantasy > Final Fantasy Tactics

Final Fantasy Tactics All of the Final Fantasy-based tactical role-playing games.

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Old 07/06/2009   #31
Madame Mayor
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The plot wasn't extraordinarily engaging, but I still think it's more interesting, or at least more subtle, than it's made out to be - I mean, there's the fantasy vs. reality theme and the fact that if it was any other FF game Marche would be the villain.
FFTA Spoiler

(SPOILER) I thought it was really interesting how Ritz, Mewt and Doned clung to the fantasy world because they all had problems with how they viewed themselves in the real one. It's something most people can relate to. How do you tell a boy in a wheelchair that he has to leave this world where he can walk and has friends and go back to where he came from because "it's the right thing to do"? I was 15/16 when this game came out, and all I wanted after I played it was beautiful white hair like Ritz.

I think the main issue with the story telling in the FFTA games is that it's very spread out and you can play for hours and hours without getting another cutscene about the characters. They fixed that a bit in FFTA-2, I felt there was a lot more "story" going on in that one, and side quests that added to the main plot.
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Old 07/06/2009   #32
Neo Bahamut
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The Hell is TBH?

War of the Lions has a greater difficulty from a certain point of view. The one thing that comes to mind right now is that summoners take a LOT longer to charge than in the original. It kinda pisses me off, actually.

As to the Espers thing, it is baseless. Any guide or fan you come across will tell you to use Belias to block the Hell Wyrm's fire breath. Guess what I did? Guess what ended up getting me killed? "Strategic chess pieces" is laying it on a bit thick, especially considering you have no control over their actions. It's more like flipping a coin.

X had a much better system. Sure, the Aeons were powerful, but you could pull out each one, use its Overdrive, & still have a tough fight ahead of you. You didn't get the super Aeons until before the final area, & if you wanted the Aeons to keep being useful after that, you had to teach them abilities & raise their attributes in a way that required a great deal more strategy than "let's pull this Esper out & let it do its stuff."

Furthermore, insinuating that XII was in any way "strategic" to someone who's beaten FFT is, quite frankly, insulting. I've played VII, its spinoffs, X, X-2, Tactics, & VI at length. Any one of these is more strategic than XII.

And the story of FFXII isn't complete shit. At least, not for the reason that it's not necessarily a good thing that you win. The fact in that my 3rd point is that yeah, someone did find the story insultingly stupid: Me. It also doesn't altogether help matters that it completely botches being a distant prequal to FFT, which is a much better game, quite frankly.

Hebdomeros, you mind if I ask you what your signature is?
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Old 07/06/2009   #33
Madame Mayor
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I've played VII, its spinoffs, X, X-2, Tactics, & VI at length. Any one of these is more strategic than XII.
Really? VII, X, and X-2 are very simple games. It's part of the reason their fanbase is so large. Obviously I love VII or I wouldn't be here, but the game is very simple going from start to the final boss without really needing to sidetrack that much/grind. You CAN, and you can pull off some awesome combos, but it's not needed if you just want to get the story.

XII requires a variety of strategies with gambits, accessories, the licence board? (that's what it's called right?), but the great thing about it is there isn't one right answer. The system caters to many different styles of playing. I know people who didn't use gambits at all and others who used them as much as possible.

Certain people liked certain weapons. Myself, I liked two swords and a gun/bow. I'd follow the gunner so I could see the battle a bit better. For other people they might not like this strategy, but it's okay because there are a million other combinations to choose from.

It all depends on how you like to play and that's what made it something new and exciting.

To be honest that was my biggest problem with playing Tactics when I got to the point that I stopped. It felt like rather than build up a team that you liked and that worked with the way you liked to play games, you needed up build a perfect team with every job because one battle you might need this and the next one you'd need that to beat it.

I recall getting to a boss where you needed to steal his sword or else you had no chance. Guess what, I didn't have a thief or ninja or whatever you needed, let alone one with that ability. So I was expected to spend hours and hours training up for that or pray that I'd get really really lucky? No thanks. But hey, that's just me.
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Old 07/06/2009   #34
Neo Bahamut
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Balthea wrote: Really?

Yes, really. Materia, sphere grid, & garment grid are all more intricate systems than any of XII's shit.

VII, X, and X-2 are very simple games. It's part of the reason their fanbase is so large.

Umm...no.

Obviously I love VII or I wouldn't be here, but the game is very simple going from start to the final boss without really needing to sidetrack that much/grind. You CAN, and you can pull off some awesome combos, but it's not needed if you just want to get the story.

This is true of most games. XII is also subject to this. But when you look at the materia system, you find out that there's so much more there than XII, where you can teach every character every ability, & they most likely end up very much the same.

XII requires a variety of strategies with gambits,

Gambits=/=strategy. You get a few good combos going, & you can just have the game fight itself. That isn't strategy. They're also somewhat annoying, but my poach gambit & its failings are another story entirely. Gambits were more of a necessity than anything else. Most of the time, it's much too difficult to keep rotating around your party members, giving them instructions.

accessories,

Umm...what's so unique about this?

the licence board? (that's what it's called right?),

This was the big thing I was thinking of. How can you even say the license board is strategic? Unless you have the guide, you can't even see what you're unlocking. Compare it to FFX's sphere grid, where you can actually plot your course, & is much more conducive to specializing your characters.

but the great thing about it is there isn't one right answer. The system caters to many different styles of playing. I know people who didn't use gambits at all and others who used them as much as possible.

Again, this is hardly unique to XII. And there's a difference between "catering to" and "allowing for." I keep bringing up specializing XII's characters. It's extremely hard to do, seeing as they all start out in relatively the same place on the license board, which is an invisible customization system.

Certain people liked certain weapons. Myself, I liked two swords and a gun/bow. I'd follow the gunner so I could see the battle a bit better. For other people they might not like this strategy, but it's okay because there are a million other combinations to choose from.

To some extent, there was a versatility with the weapons you could use that wasn't there before. I will give you that.

It all depends on how you like to play and that's what made it something new and exciting.

...No it didn't. There were class systems in other FFs. You can accomplish the same thing with materia.

To be honest that was my biggest problem with playing Tactics when I got to the point that I stopped. It felt like rather than build up a team that you liked and that worked with the way you liked to play games, you needed up build a perfect team with every job because one battle you might need this and the next one you'd need that to beat it.

In a conversation about strategy, do you really think this is a good point to make? That' the thing about XII: No matter how strategic it tried to be, it's still a main series game, which means you can easily power through the main story. And, in my opinion, you can do it easier than in some of the other games.

I recall getting to a boss where you needed to steal his sword or else you had no chance.

That is bullshit. I went through the entire game TWICE not having stolen anything. And your conclusion may have been the wrong way to go about things, anyway, because some enemies have a sort of invisible maintanence skill, keeping their equipment from being stolen &/or broken.

Guess what, I didn't have a thief or ninja or whatever you needed, let alone one with that ability. So I was expected to spend hours and hours training up for that or pray that I'd get really really lucky?

If that's the strategy you felt you needed, then yes. Levelling/training is a common element in RPG games. Honestly, it sounds to me like your team just wasn't very good, if you couldn't withstand the attacks & deal some damage yourself. No offense, but Tactics was hard. You had to be on the best of your game for several battles. That doesn't mean you needed a perfect team, but if your only option was to steal the weapon, does that really indicate a good team? Is the team well-balanced if you don't have a relatively simple class like a thief with basic abilities? Those are the questions you need to ask yourself.

No thanks. But hey, that's just me.

Tactics was like most games. You could play it a lot of different ways. But there was an emphesis on strategy. That's why it's called Tactics. Frankly, if you put yourself in the shoes of an FFT fan, it's easy to see why the rest of the Ivalice Alliance becomes little more than an insult. Everyone talks about how simple TA's gameplay & story are. That's not what Tactics was about. Everyone talks about how brilliant XII's story is, & how strategic its battles are, but then they talk about how confusing Tactics was on both levels. Umm...since when did "strategic" & "brilliant" become synonymous with "easy to grasp"? They're practically antynomous!
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Old 07/06/2009   #35
Strangelove
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Unless you have the guide, you can't even see what you're unlocking.
Doesn't it tell you what a license when you put the cursor over it even if you're no where near unlocking it?
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Old 07/06/2009   #36
Neo Bahamut
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hitoshura wrote: Doesn't it tell you what a license when you put the cursor over it even if you're no where near unlocking it?
I don't think so. Been ages since I've played, though.
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Old 07/06/2009   #37
Strangelove
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It has for me, but I've been playing the International one so maybe it was something they changed.
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Old 07/06/2009   #38
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Balthea wrote: Obviously I love VII or I wouldn't be here, but the game is very simple going from start to the final boss without really needing to sidetrack that much/grind.
I just wanna say quickly, that requiring you to grind does not make a game strategic in anyway. Quite the opposite.

And no, the License Board doesn't let you see ahead except for ones directly adjacent to squares you already had. I said in another thread that I thought that was a terrible design choice.
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Old 07/06/2009   #39
Max Payne
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I can see where I'm going. All of the health upgrades and weapon gambits are all in the same place, and the weapons and armor you gradually get are typically in the same ballpark as the licenses currently available if you upgrade your skills properly. I didn't need a guide for it.

LOL @ VII, X and X-2 being more strategic that XII. Is that a joke? You can win pretty much every fight in those games by doing the same damn thing, over and over in each fight, using the same abilities and techniques with a few varying instances. VII especially, all you need in that game is the ability to heal, and a few summons, and you can tank through the entire game.

At least proper preparation and equipment are required in XII to come out on top, and power through the main story easily? What. If you don't prepare and formulate proper gambits to accommodate the enemies you're fighting you will be destroyed.

Last edited by Max Payne; 07/06/2009 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 07/06/2009   #40
Ryushikaze
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Actually, there is a connected story between all the Ivalice Alliance games, starting with XII or TA as the chronological first, RW, TA2, the original tactics much later on, and lastly Vagrant Story.

And yes, I include TA there since despite being a strangeness of magic, it has had an affect on the rest of Ivalice, commented on in TA2.

Not sure what it was, exactly, possibly a grand ole dreaming of the faith somewhere in Ivalice or a change of what was already there, but it apparently happened.
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Old 07/06/2009   #41
Makoeyes987
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There's a reason FFXII earned a perfect fucking score from Famitsu. It's one of the strongest FF titles in the series. That, coupled with how strong each title in the Ivalice Alliance is in terms of its gameplay, storyline, and reception...makes the Ivalice Alliance a very well liked Compilation. The gameplay of FFXII is probably one of the most challenging and strategy based in the series. You *can't* just zerg rush or overpower an enemy. Enemies have certain abilities, combos, and buffs you HAVE to strategize for, otherwise, it won't matter how strong you are. You'll die because you'll either not be able to hit him, or your gambits won't take into account how he moves or acts.
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Old 07/06/2009   #42
Madame Mayor
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I just wanna say quickly, that requiring you to grind does not make a game strategic in anyway. Quite the opposite.
Oh, I understand that. What I meant was that... well... what Dacon said:
VII especially, all you need in that game is the ability to heal, and a few summons, and you can tank through the entire game.
Also, This.
I can see where I'm going. All of the health upgrades and weapon gambits are all in the same place, and the weapons and armor you gradually get are typically in the same ballpark as the licenses currently available if you upgrade your skills properly. I didn't need a guide for it.
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Old 07/07/2009   #43
ForceStealer
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If you don't stop to level in FF7 at all, you will need some strategy. FFXII is definitely a much more difficult game, but had they made VII a little harder, materia allows for lots of strategy.

Dacon wrote: I can see where I'm going. All of the health upgrades and weapon gambits are all in the same place, and the weapons and armor you gradually get are typically in the same ballpark as the licenses currently available if you upgrade your skills properly. I didn't need a guide for it.
No, you don't need a guide for it, but allowing you to plan ahead a bit more like the Sphere Grid would allow for more strategery. You have to "waste" LP on someone to figure out the location of moves you want if you feel like planning ahead. I was much happier with it once I printed out a pdf of the grid.
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Old 07/07/2009   #44
Neo Bahamut
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XII got a perfect score for its graphics. That's how reviews work. If it has good graphics or is a shooting game, it's going to get a high score. I have no respect for them.

And the problem with the "continuous story" is that it's tenuous at best. XII practically retcons the Lucavi, & makes no attempt to explain how the method of summoning them changed so dramatically.

As for the games being more strategic, yes they are. I honestly have to wonder if some of you know the meaning of the word "strategy." Particularly "you can't just overpower the enemy." Too bad to beat bosses up until the dragon in the forest, all you need is a good Quickening chain. As for gambits, all you need is one for healing & one for attacking, & you could power through the main story. It's the same argument as against the materia: Shit like Enemy Skill & magic HELPS, but it isn't NECESSARY.
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Old 07/07/2009   #45
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Famitsu wouldn't give a high score to shooters - its Japanese. And games with better graphics than XII have gotten lower scores from Famitsu.

I have to agree about the Lucavi. I'm not sure if they retconned it, but I was kinda hoping there'd be a more direct link.
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