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Pre-Crisis Final Fantasy VII All content for Before Crisis and Crisis Core focusing on the 8 years, leading directly up until the events of Final Fantasy VII.

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Old 05/31/2017   #256
Strangelove
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Shademp wrote: For whatever reason, the DMW cutscenes are referred to as "reach".
i have an answer for this.

this is from the japanese word (リーチ), which is actually from a chinese word (立直). originally a mahjong term for something i don't know about because i don't get mahjong, its use expanded into other areas like pachinko and board games and refers to the point in the game where someone is close to winning or getting a jackpot. i think in the case of crisis core, it would be borrowed from the pachinko/pachislot usage given that the dmw is basically the same sort of slot machine mechanic. in a pachinko/pachislot game a 'reach' is usually accompanied by a lot of flashy lights and sound effects and special scenes and video clips, which fits with the dmw scenes as well.
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Old 05/31/2017   #257
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The more you know
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Old 06/01/2017   #258
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Some content to complement my first post about the unused maps of Crisis Core, since new information came to light when I found the event values and debug menus.


· Prison Cell Corridor
I confirmed that this map, with ID #334, was used for the real-time rendering of what became a pre-rendered flashback in Hollander's hideout (map ID #328).

The way I teleport (without the debug menu) is what one might expect: I pick the desired event value via cheat engine, freeze that, then use a gateway (door/exit/entrance) in Crisis Core. Some gateways are more cooperative than others when it comes to forcing this change in event value and the subsequent teleportation. The reason I initially couldn't teleport in the US version is because I was using gateways that weren't cooperative.

The decimal event value is as follows for the prison cell map:
1603 - JP
5118 - US*
1534 - PALE

*Yes, the value ranges in the US version are WAY different from JP and PALE.

If you teleport to this map using only the event value, only the second half of the real-time cutscene will activate. To unlock the full scene, go the debug menu path:
Mr. Kunikata → Chapter 3 → Medical room → S03E11  Genesis gets blood transfusion



Flashback: MF vs Prod








The flashback filter is not present in the real-time version.















A few frames after this the screen for the real-time render turns black, to mark where the flashback to Genesis (yo dawg I herd u liek flashbacks so I put a flashback in yo flashback) was to be placed. The FMV flashback is not present in the real-time version.



























Hollander and Angeal fade away in the pre-rendered cutscene, but in the real-time version there is no fade-out.






















The screen sticks to Sephiroth in the prison corridor map, with no more events occurring. The player is stuck here. The transition back to Hollander's hideout, as seen in the MF version, does not happen and the debug menus don't include a jump to this final, brief part of the pre-rendered cutscene.




More to come...
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Old 06/01/2017   #259
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Addresses for event values (as revealed via Cheat Engine) :
88A0DED4 - JP
88A12A94 - US
88A12E14 - PALE
I choose these addresses to have a 2-byte value because the values have never gone into 4-byte territory. The maximum hex in the former is FFFF [decimal 65535] and the maximum hex in the latter is FFFFFFFF [decimal 4294967295].

Alright, let's teleport to...


· Outside Shinra Building

There is no menu-map and the zone is called "????". Again, this name is standard for maps where menu-access was never intended. Keep in mind there's also the possibility that more descriptive zone names exist, but that our teleportation via event value does not properly unlock the location name.

Roaming the field

Event Values, decimal:
1646 - JP
5223 - US
1577 - PALE

Starting position...



You'll notice immediately how the angle is frustratingly low. Rarely do you get a good look upwards. The map is better appreciated in the pre-rendered cutscene thanks to its camera work.




Most of the ground is beyond your access, with these barrier ropes ("stanchions") blocking your exploration.




Zack: "Stanchions! My second weakness!"

His first weakness being huge armies.










Four closed gates. The two middle ones are supposed to lead inside a tiny hall which in turn leads to the main entrance hall/lobby, if we go by the Dirge of Cerberus design. We can see that the doors changed appearance between DC & CC.












The pre-rendered cutscene with Zack outside the Shinra Building (end of Chapter 5) is one that always saddened me that it wasn't available in a real-time render. The debug menus fulfill that wish...for the most part.

Debug menu path:
Mr. Oka → Chapter 5 → S05E10A ... S05E17 → S05E17  Wanna be a SOLDIER? (prod ver.)


Sidenote: Few of the debug options make your emulator crash. "Angeal dies (prod ver.)" is one of those, so the real-time render of that scene is currently unavailable.

Fortunately the scene option "Angeal dies (MF)" is functional, which gives us quick access to the final scenes of Chapter 5 as they are shown in a normal playthrough.


Keep in mind that the snapshots below are slightly larger if you open them in a separate window (unless you are viewing this post alone)

MF versus Prod






Yup, that's right. The part where Zack walks by the infantrymen is not present in this real-time render. The camera is frozen in the above position until the shot from Cloud's point-of-view. I wonder if the infantrymen and the choreography for the first section of this real-time cutscene exists just outside of view, or if the data isn't there at all.




































































If you zoom in on the map via Noesis, you will find this green patch where Cloud's point-of-view shot was built from. You see the background that Zack stands against and it's easy to imagine some lighting effects being added to create the final result. Obviously for the final scene, they moved around this green patch so to not interfere with the other parts of the scene.
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Old 06/02/2017   #260
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I somehow missed the fact that the scene where Nero and Weiss pick up Genesis is NOT pre-rendered. Ergo, that Banora map does not belong to the "technically unused" category. It is very much a used map, though all the preceding scenes there (Lazard's death, apple-eating & Zack leaving with Cloud) are pre-rendered. Accordingly I have removed the Banora map from my first post about unused fields.

We can still explore the map though.

Event values:
1708 - JP
5453 - US
1639 - PALE

Exploring Map 497

The area has no available menu-map and the zone is called "????".


Starting position.




There are plenty of invisible walls but also plenty of places that lack collision.







Long stretches of plain green, then we have the green mako water that is actually animated.







There is an invisible bridge that lets you walk across to where the apple-eating cutscene takes place.












The path through the debug menu to said cutscenes is as follows:
Mr. Oka → Chapter 10 → S10E06A ... S10E09 → S10E07



MF versus Prod
























Naturally, the Aerith flashbacks are not present in the real-time rendered version. The blackness representing where the flashbacks were to be inserted is in fact way too brief, so the pauses don't match up with how long the flashbacks are in the final game.
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Old 06/02/2017   #261
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I'm thoroughly enjoying this.
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Old 06/02/2017   #262
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@Tets

Thanks dude. I'm thoroughly enjoying this as well. It is a dream come true to view so many of these scenes in high quality.


Let's look at the Shinra HQ helicopter pad map. The real-time rendering is only seen briefly after Bahamut Fury is defeated. Genesis summoning Bahamut Fury, as well as the epilogue scene with Cissnei and Tseng, are both pre-rendered.

Roaming the map







"70.
Shinra
Building"



...They seriously only mirrored the texture from the other side! Playing the game normally, this example of laziness is never within view. Using Noesis we see that there are six cases of the number "70" on the building, with half of them being reversed.







There isn't even the smallest trace of a door that is supposed to lead inside the 70th floor of Shinra HQ.




Collision is consistent and you can roam every bit of the platform that seems naturally available.




To view the summoning of Bahamut Fury, go the following debug menu route:
Ms. Ishibashi → Seq 1  Chapter 4 → E07 - E11 → E10  Bahamut Fury script no text


I enjoy that Ishibashi refers to the real-time renderings as "script", probably as in "scripted". They don't follow the "prod" and "MF" naming used by everybody else.

"Genesis script" is the real-time rendering of the scene where Genesis threatens Hojo. It is one of the few of these unseen real-time renderings that actually includes subtitles. Still no voice acting though.

You think that if you obey Hollander...







Observe the small difference in the subtitles.
he'll stop your body from degrading, is that it? versus
he'll stop your body from degrading. Is that it?



Ending that detour, let's compare the movie version of Bahamut Fury's summoning and the "scripted" version.

Movie vs Scripted






















Only in the real-time rendering can you see the mirrored "70" here.







The flashy effects are only there in the movie version. There is a brief blackness as we jump from the helicopter pad to Bahamut Fury's realm. This is likely one of the major reasons for wanting to go with a pre-rendered cutscene: The game may not be able to seamlessly load the jump from one map to the other, creating unwanted pauses. In a complete movie this is not a problem.







Bahamut Fury cutting through the sky is not present in the scripted version.










Next up is the epilogue scene with Cissnei and Tseng. Debug path:
Mr. Oka → Epilogue → SEPE00  Turks on their way (prod ver.)



MF versus Prod















This highlights an ambiguity that always had me questioning what I saw whenever this cutscene happened. Had Tseng actually disregarded his pony tail and moved on to the hairstyle of the original FFVII?

In the Prod version, Tseng clearly still sports the ponytail. This is especially clear when watching the whole cutscene in action, plus the considerably higher brightness compared to the MF counterpart helps.

With the contrast between MF and Prod, plus after watching the MF version in a big emulation window, I am convinced that what we're seeing is Tseng without a pony-tail in the pre-rendered version.

The hairstyle is congruent with Tseng's long hair in the FMV...



...but I have to remark how poorly done the effect of his long hair is in the helicopter pad cutscene. It just looks like a blank, black space and not at all like flowing hair. Plus it is needlessly obscured. There is no Tseng model in the game data where his hair is released, unless it exists as an animation state. Noesis can't toggle between animation states so I have no way to confirm this.
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Old 06/03/2017   #263
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This shit is dope.
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Old 06/03/2017   #264
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Candidates for either of the unused, green mine maps (see bottom of the link) are two of the Angeal DMW cutscenes. The backgrounds have that distinct, green tone that is not present in the mine maps used for the missions. While technically possible that a filter is making the map look more green than it actually is, thus leading me to a false conclusion as to which map(s) were used for the original real-time rendering, my money is on these two DMW cutscenes having been rendered in either of the unused, "green mine" maps.

Scene #1:




Scene #6:




None of the event values or debug menu paths have led me to prod/real-time-renderings of the DMW cutscenes, or even just a screen that plays these movies. The closest we have are the message tests by Mr. Shindo.


In the same vein, none of the event values or debug options have led me to any of the following unused maps:
- Modeo Ravine - East (blue sky)
- Burial Place for Essai & Sebastian
- Shinra Manor 1st Floor - Nighttime
- Modeo Ravine - Southwest (blue sky)
- The Green Caves
- The Dark Watery Caves
- Plains/Grasslands: Disjointed
- The Blank Slates
- Reactor/Facility/Plate-Interior Maps
- Unused Slums
- Unused Islands
- Unused Deserts
- Green Mines
- Animal Trail (Forest)

If event values exist for any of these maps (and/or for real-time renderings of DMW cutscenes, for that matter), they exist in value ranges outside of what is used for most of the main game. I'm not about to try out tens of thousands of values just to be safe, so hopefully I'll find some other means to teleport to these locations.
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Old 06/04/2017   #265
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I had given up hope, but now I finally found the symbol values to edit some of the game's text. My current knowledge has only been confirmed to apply to battle text, menus and speaker names. No luck with dialogue text yet, but I'm gonna keep experimenting.


In Shun Moriya's debug room, you can trigger a fight against Angeal Penance by talking to Tifa. He has the embarrassing battle move called "Thunder of Envy" where he literally craps lightning. Yes, that is a part of the final game. He will always do this move if you are standing behind him.





It was while playing around with data surrounding this battle move that I found the text addresses. Each symbol occupies a 2-byte value. The array of bytes for this battle move name is as follows:
13 00 21 00 2E 00 27 00 1D 00 1E 00 2B 00 40 00 28 00 1F 00 40 00 04 00 27 00 2F 00 32 00
Via Cheat Engine you can search for the category "array of bytes". Type/Paste in the values above when you're in a battle against Angeal Penance (or simply when you are in Shun Moriya's debug room) and you can edit the text for this move.

I edited it to...



...which corresponds to the following array of bytes.

03 00 2E 00 26 00 1B 00 1A 00 29 00 29 00 25 00 1E 00 2C 00 60 00 60 00 60 00 60 00

Had fun with Aerith's speaker name in the following manner:

Instead of Aerith...








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Old 06/04/2017   #266
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Looking at Angeal Penance's moveset in the memory viewer, he appears to have one unused move called "Original Magic". No guides mention this move. I have not found a way to unlock this move, assuming there even is anything to unlock.

- Patterns in the memory viewer

I've primarily marked where the values for the in-game names of each battle move are. The battle move names already readable to the right in the memory viewer (which use 1-byte values for the symbols) are not used in-game.

The move "Trident" is not named in-game, because it's such a simple physical attack. In that sense, the battle move name could be considered unused. This is a pretty common deal with movesets though: The simplest physical attacks have names in the data, but these names don't show up in battle.

Byte values not marked in the image but still experimented with had effects like making an attack cause damage to Zack's MP instead of his HP, or even have it cause damage to Angeal Penance instead of Zack (or cause damage to both of them).


Still no luck with finding dialogue text, but I found that I can edit mail titles, mission names and zone names on top of what I already had access to.

One slightly unexpected detail is that Speaker Names and Battle Move Names use different text/symbol tables. They match up to a point, but after a while they diverge. The former includes all the symbols written in italics, while the latter does not (at least not in the equivalent value ranges).

One unused zone name, or whatever the actual true source of the snippet is supposed to be, is "Heroes". If you teleport to a mission using only an event value, the actual mission name is replaced with "Heroes".



In the Japanese game, following the same method, the zone name becomes this:


After twentyfive minutes of trying to transcribe this I'm giving up. Help?

EDIT: "Heroes" is a save file name
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Last edited by Shademp; 06/08/2017 at 11:05 AM. Reason: *italics, not cursive
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Old 06/04/2017   #267
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俺たちは英雄だ

(we're heroes)
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Old 06/05/2017   #268
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Many thanks to Tres for making me read the talk by Takatsugu Nakazawa, who was the System Designer & Battle Director for FFXV.

- FF Wiki Page
- Momocon 2017 Talk transcription
- Momocon 2017 Talk video

Nakazawa was one of the Battle Planners for FFVII and he was the Battle Planning Director for Crisis Core.

The greatest treasure from the talk, for me, were these two slides:
- FF7 & FF8
- Crisis Core & Type-0

Below each pre-release snapshot are pictures from Nakazawa's Excel documents regarding battle data. It is exciting to think that Nakazawa still has these documents, or at least some snapshots of these old files.

I really wish we got a zoom-in on the FFVII slide. Barret looks tiny compared to Aerith and Cloud for whatever reason.


Nakazawa about Crisis Core:
as a Battle Director [I was] ... overseeing everything related to battles. The Digital Mind Wave system was something that I made, so hopefully you guys have played it and enjoyed it.

FFVII was part of the original this time around of CRISIS CORE. The main character was different, so we changed up the system, inserted the digital Mind Wave system, and just tried to do something different but still kind of stayed true to the original feeling of FFVII.
I would say they succeeded in their goal. The battle system is different, but multiple parts still strongly carry that FFVII feeling. For that I praise the team behind Crisis Core.

To pick one example, I enjoy the way that Zack's HP, MP and AP can "break" and accumulate to twice beyond the current cap. I am of course speaking about the cap-breaks that can happen before you reach the ultimate HP, MP & AP value caps of 99999 and 9999. This feature wasn't present in the original FFVII but still carries that spirit of "breaking limits" that the original game had. The same felt true for when you break the damage cap and go from 9999 max damage to 99999.

The way that you go from essentially a tiny ant of a fighter to an overpowered super-god also feels very true to FFVII. The spamming-fest and silliness of Costly Punch aside, the way that Zack got so overpowered brought me back to all those times I used 4x-Cut in FFVII for 9999x4 in damage. To become ridiculously powerful IS an essential part of the Final Fantasy VII experience.


Leaving that tangent... Here is the pre-release photo of Crisis Core, compared with a rough recreation of the scene in the final Japanese game.


Pre-release versus Final







- Final game sports a greater field of view, regardless of where Zack or the Guard Spider are positioned.


- The word "神羅" (Shinra), correct me if I'm wrong here, was removed from the Guard Spider's long-range attack. In the English game, this attack is called "Type-97 Cannon". So it's original name was "Shinra Type-97 Cannon"?


- Once shots actually get fired and start hitting Zack, the name bar for the attack will have faded out in the final game. Maybe the bar stuck around longer in this early stage. The bar itself became more rectangular in the final game.


- Numbers indicating damage done on Zack are white. In the final product, they are red.


- Tseng's icon was clearly changed, with Sephiroth's icon receiving only a small change in the perceived angle.






- Numbers for the DMW reel were contained in hexagons that moved in and out of view. The final game has the numbers move alone, but they align inside circles eventually.


- MIND was changed to LIMIT. The waves signifying the activity of Zack's "mind", how high the likelihood of a limit break is, are higher and green in the pre-release shot. This makes the activity of the "NORMAL" status appear greater in the early screenshot. The green wave was used for the status "HIGH" in the final game.


- The descriptive menu bar to the lower right that reads "Attack" was changed from white to blue. The circle button (X button in the English game, since standard action button is Circle in Japan) became encompassed in a bigger circle.


- Five materia are equipped in the pre-release snapshot. Your cap at this point are four materia in the final game, which is then extended to six materia when Zack becomes SOLDIER 1st Class.





- The channel "Final Fantasy Youtube" recently uploaded Japanese Crisis Core as an HD movie. No english subs, but if you're like me you know the English script of the game so well that subs aren't necessary.
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Last edited by Shademp; 06/05/2017 at 11:03 PM. Reason: *green wave was used for HIGH in final game
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Old 06/05/2017   #269
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Shademp wrote: Nakazawa about Crisis Core:
as a Battle Director [I was] ... overseeing everything related to battles. The Digital Mind Wave system was something that I made, so hopefully you guys have played it and enjoyed it.

FFVII was part of the original this time around of CRISIS CORE. The main character was different, so we changed up the system, inserted the digital Mind Wave system, and just tried to do something different but still kind of stayed true to the original feeling of FFVII.
I would say they succeeded in their goal. The battle system is different, but multiple parts still strongly carry that FFVII feeling. For that I praise the team behind Crisis Core.

To pick one example, I enjoy the way that Zack's HP, MP and AP can "break" and accumulate to twice beyond the current cap. I am of course speaking about the cap-breaks that can happen before you reach the ultimate HP, MP & AP value caps of 99999 and 9999. This feature wasn't present in the original FFVII but still carries that spirit of "breaking limits" that the original game had. The same felt true for when you break the damage cap and go from 9999 max damage to 99999.

The way that you go from essentially a tiny ant of a fighter to an overpowered super-god also feels very true to FFVII. The spamming-fest and silliness of Costly Punch aside, the way that Zack got so overpowered brought me back to all those times I used 4x-Cut in FFVII for 9999x4 in damage. To become ridiculously powerful IS an essential part of the Final Fantasy VII experience.
I couldn't agree with this more thoroughly.


Shademp wrote: - The channel "Final Fantasy Youtube" recently uploaded Japanese Crisis Core as an HD movie. No english subs, but if you're like me you know the English script of the game so well that subs aren't necessary.
I'm sure that if you've got some free time, you could always submit the English Script as Closed Captions.





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Old 06/05/2017   #270
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Shademp wrote: The channel "Final Fantasy Youtube" recently uploaded Japanese Crisis Core as an HD movie. No english subs, but if you're like me you know the English script of the game so well that subs aren't necessary.


i was looking for an unsubbed japanese movie version of the whole game a few months back but only managed to find the fmv scenes or ones with english subtitles

now i am off to download this
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