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Pre-Crisis Final Fantasy VII All content for Before Crisis and Crisis Core focusing on the 8 years, leading directly up until the events of Final Fantasy VII.

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Old 01/25/2015   #76
Obsidian Fire
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Shademp wrote: I wonder if this is a conscious reference to the clock room error (assuming most will agree that this way of writing 4 in roman numerals is an error) in the original game.

The "standard" forms described above reflect typical modern usage rather than a universally accepted convention. Usage in ancient Rome varied greatly and remained inconsistent in medieval and modern times
Nearly all clocks that use roman numerals will use "IIII" instead of "IV" not because of any ancient tradition, but because it looks more symmetrical. The number opposite four on a clock is eight, which in roman numerals is written "VIII". "IIII" better matches the width of "VIII" then "IV" does. (The random things you learn while studying graphic design...)

This thread is a cool read.
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Old 01/25/2015   #77
Shademp
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- Version Difference: The "closed" sign is lacking an important letter in the japanese game.

(SPOILER)
JAPANESE


ENGLISH



A more subtle difference involves a sign next to the Shopping Paradise (the one where you can make cologne), where the font seems to have been changed and no I don't think it's just the camera perspective messing with me.

(SPOILER)
JAPANESE


ENGLISH



Especially the P letter is different when comparing the JP and the ENG (PAL). The Sector 5 Slums Market area is in the 02121.raw and 02111.raw files in the Japanese and English games respectively. However the texture for the OPEN sign was not ripped properly in the PAL files, so I can't compare them this way.


- More tiny version differences: Zack can release monsters into the Shinra HQ 67th Floor, causing a minigame with a counter that counts down from 3 minutes, and you have to steal Jail Cell Keys from the monsters to open up the cells and get the loot from there. ...Why the heck would you use jail cells for storage of materia and money? Anyway.

JP:
- After defeating a monster, Zack clenches his fist victoriously and says "おっし". The timer resumes when clicking past this message.



The message is the same whether you steal a key or not.

- When opening a door into and out of jail cell area you lose exactly three seconds. The timer at first fools you by freezing when you open the door and go to the next area, but when you regain control three seconds are lost from the timer.

ENG:
- After defeating a monster, the timer instantly resumes and you regain control over Zack. Zack says nothing, whether you steal a key or not.

- When opening the door into and out of the jail cell area, zero time is lost. The timer freezes when the door is opened and then resumes from that exact point when you regain control over Zack in the area you entered.
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Old 01/25/2015   #78
Shademp
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- Another border difference but this one is actually even a bit embarrassing. At the start of Chapter 5 lots of missions are unlocked, among them are the 1-3-x missions.

Mission 1-3-4
JAPANESE


ENGLISH



At first glance the traversable area in the Japanese game looks way bigger. ...Buuuut, the funny thing is that the boss of the mission is on the bridge!

The Bridge (with typical camera difference)
JAPANESE


ENGLISH



There is no way to cross the bridge without triggering this battle that ends the mission. Woops! I hope to someday find a way to cheat myself beyond the bridge in the Japanese game so I can check out the inaccessible area. Thought I doubt there is any treasure there it would be so cool if there was.
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Old 01/27/2015   #79
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I got no version differences to report today but I just want to talk about today's emotional play session.

Still right at the start of Chapter 5 because I'm clearing missions. Finally realized I'm at the point where I can spam Quake because I can use Osmose to restore my MP easily. Got Osmoga from a Great Cavern of Wonders mission, making the MP recovery easier. Things were looking good. Difficult, but good.

Difficult then turned to impossible when I just couldn't beat the boss(es) in 8-1-6 (still Great Cavern of Wonders). I was not prepared. They are three black death machines (OF DEATH!!!111!!11!!!). One of them is guarded against EVERYTHING until one or two of them falls. They shoot relentlessly. Cause status effects. Remove MP. They also hurt my pride. After expending two Phoenix Down, I quit and smashed the desk. This was enough to make my desk lamp break. XP Grabbed a bag (with some socks in it) and just smashed and smashed against my sofa. Hands were hurting a while. Experimented with different materia and equipment setups, did Materia Fusion, but I still had no chance.

Spirit broken. Bitterly took on the task of completing other missions, in hope of finding the essential items or materia to clear 8-1-6. Did some missions where the motivation is that a psychic dude named P points out areas with priceless items. After a bumpy road, I then got to the dreaded 7-4-6 mission... The one with the Dual Horns (named "Wyerd" here) that have a defense stat of 254 and protection against all magic. Each Wyerd has a total HP of 48799, then consider in my case that physical attacks only caused between 50-200 in damage. Some frustration for a while because I couldn't find a good strategy to make a battle with one Wyerd last less than ten minutes. Gil Toss, which you can find in this mission, worked somewhat but I didn't want to expend gil in battle. Thank goodness at least for quick saves and easy return to before the battle so I could change the equipment.

It was then that I used...DARKNESS!!! Damage is caused by expending Zack's HP. 4000 HP depleted from the Wyerd, with only about 1000-1500 HP removed from Zack! A very fair trade in my eyes

Now I feel a lot better. Sure, the reward from the mission isn't what I hoped for, but I found a strategy that I won't forget AND it's a case where the game makes me use a materia (Darkness) that I otherwise ignore completely. I feel like a game is better designed the more of the available equipment/items end up relevant.


Side-note: It's curious how the Angeal DMW limit break, Rush Assault, ignores Wyerd's defense and would cause 1500 damage per punch from Zack. The Sephiroth and Tseng limit breaks only caused minor damage. Clearly Rush Assault is not a normal physical attack.

My thoughts turn to those who play Crisis Core without levelling up... *sighs heavily* Impressive how that guy reached so far in the game only one month after the game's English release.


EDIT: I... I did it! I defeated the black death machines! I simply returned, ran in circles, used Darkness and spammed Potions. After some tight situations and making sure to always stay out of the Smoke Vent (which causes a number of status ailments) I actually won!
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Old 01/27/2015   #80
ultima espio
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Should have read this sooner, Rinoa was the first program capable of reading Crisis Core models, so it's buggy. If you want to view the models, redump everything with noesis and view them in there. Or alternatively create a batch script to rename all the.dat files to .ff7ccmodel.
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Old 01/29/2015   #81
Shademp
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Progression with Crisis Core will continue to be slow for a while, because...
1 - Excessive mission grinding in both versions
2 - Me trying to learn katakana and translating words with those types of symbols in them. Figured I'd finally use FFVII as a basis to LEARN some Japanese symbols. I want to get to the point of translating short snippets from Japanese guides, mostly.


Meanwhile, now attempting to get familiar with Noesis and the game modding forum "Xentax".

Noesis can be downloaded here. Xentax won't allow you to post and use download links unless you donate 5 Euros. At first I was reluctant because I didn't recognize the transaction service "Stripe", but according to at least two lists on most trustworthy transactions services, Stripe is among the top contestants. Ignoring my default paranoia, I donated the money. Hoping I won't regret this.


Angry rant fueled by currently being in a very agitated mode As always, game modding forums are a nightmare to navigate through, with a million subsections and each thread with starting posts that are impossible to understand without at least a few hours of research and/or getting the aid of somebody who is well-versed in this type of forum and the techno-babble therein.

I figured there was something better than RINOA out there, as I recall Cloud_S of TLS linking images to what I think was from noesis, but when it comes to finding tools, unpacking files, ripping isos, using plugins etc I have very little patience and usually end up lost and clueless. Ergo why I wait for wonderful people like ultima espio to point and say "THERE". This is also why I postponed emulating Crisis Core for so long.

*hyperventilates*

The people of Qhimm, Xentax etc do wonderful work but I will never stop hating my inability to easily navigate, find and use the content of such sites.

Oh well. At least it's not the ASSEmbler games forum (which I find now is offline).

*stops hyperventilating*

My apologies but I just really, REALLY don't enjoy the journey before I manage to find and use software.


Found the relevant Xentax Crisis Core thread, which I realise now was linked on the first page in thsi thread, but I can't use the file.


1.Extract the ripkit folder (with winrar) & put your discimg.pkg into the same folder(extracted with UmdGen) and run the extract.bat this will extract all the files

2.Then downsample but keep the same name,but if the files are bigger it will not be added.(to downsample read the tutorials)

3.Run the rebuild.bat this will then inject the files back in!!(Put the new discimg.pkg back in using UmdGen or WQSG_UMD_R31)

4.When you cso your iso it will be smaller!!

5.Make a ripkit!!!!!
I used the download link and got the "Crisis core final fantasy IIV discimg.pkg tool" file and then unpacked it using 7-zip. In the folder I only have the following files:
- discimg.LBA (Notes)
- extract (Windows Batch File)
- Read me (Notes)
- rebuild (Windows Batch File)
- UpEx (Application)

There is no ripkit folder. Am I supposed to unpack "Crisis core final fantasy IIV discimg.pkg tool" using winrar?
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Old 01/29/2015   #82
ultima espio
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You could have just asked and I would have gotten it for you

With that tool you just need the discimg.pkg from inside the crisis core iso (you will need to mount with daemon tools if you haven't already) then click on extract, and it will dump everything. Click repack to rebuild it.

Just make sure that you only put back files that are the same size or smaller, otherwise it won't inject.

Once you've dumped all the files you want, rename the folder to discimg.pkg Extracte (or similar) and create an empty folder called discimg.pkg Extracted, and place your altered files in here. It will speed up the rebuilding process.
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Old 01/30/2015   #83
Shademp
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More capitalization differences, this time on the SOLDIER floor. Big images in the spoiler tags.

Example #1

JAPANESE


ENGLISH




Soldier -> SOLDIER

Difficult to tell if there are more differences, because this sign is actually two signs which have text that has to properly overlay from the player's perspective in order to be read clearly. A texture rip from the area would be very welcome.


Example #2

JAPANESE


ENGLISH




soldier -> SOLDIER
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Old 01/31/2015   #84
Shademp
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- Never paid attention before, but Lazard's office is on the 51st floor. Can't find a floor indicator for the Exhibit Room.


- Remember the missions that are available four chapters earlier in the Japanese game? That's right, the 6-4-x missions. In order to unlock these in the English game, you must complete 6-3-6 AND 6-2-6. The 6-2-x missions are unlocked in Chapter 5, by talking a guy from the City Planning Department. When completing these missions, three stores are unlocked. The Sector 8, Sector 5 and Sector 6 stores.

After completing 6-2-6 in the English game, a new mission was unlocked, plus I got the Sector 6 - Accessory Shop and a mail from the City Planning Department.

When I completed 6-2-6 in the Japanese game, I did at first NOT get the shop and the mail. Only after unlocking a mission, be it by doing a sidequest or by completing a mission, is the shop and the mail given. Remember because the 6-4-1 mission was already available since way early on in the Japanese game, no new mission was unlocked instantly after 6-2-6.

At first this may seem like a version difference, but it (kind of) isn't. If I had not completed 6-3-6 already in the English game, then the 6-4-1 mission would not have been unlocked after completing 6-2-6. At least I feel very confident in this theory, because the flag/trigger for these shops and the mail seem to be "If Unlocked New Mission -> Then Shop & Mail".


- I wonder if Square accidentally created a homosexual NPC. A Wutai spy is disguised as a woman in Sector 8. When a guy tries to chat up the woman/man-spy, the spy rates his looks before stating that the wallet contents are more important. Could be that this is meant to be a female Wutai warrior, but still... Would be cool if it actually was a male Wutai spy who is looking for some gay action as well as money.


- Umm... are they talking about Barret here?

(SPOILER)






Correct me if I uploaded the wrong Japanese snapshot. The context here is that a Shinra group just went from Midgar to Corel Village and back to Midgar for a jaunt inspection. Where the heck do they get "Magnum" from?
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Old 01/31/2015   #85
Doom Bunneh
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Ahem... No, I won't say it
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(SPOILER)
Shademp wrote: I would just like to thank Airling and Blargon for being awesome additions to this forum.



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Old 01/31/2015   #86
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Mission 6-4-2 border difference: The Return of the Goof

JAPANESE






ENGLISH






Corrected for the English release, just like in Mission 1-3-4.
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Old 01/31/2015   #87
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- FINALLY! Now I can, with a good conscience, head to the snowy mountains and Modeoheim.

At the start of chapter 5:
Zack Level 44, mission completion 34%

Later on, very near the start of chapter 5:
Zack Level 56 (Level 57 in the Japanese file), mission completion 52%.

PHEW. Halfway through the pain!


- You know what, I am avoiding a big part of the Crisis Core experience by not reading any of the mail. Yes, sometimes I read a mail, but then I load a quick save and return to before reading the mail, because I'm right now obsessed with getting all the mail but without having read ANY of it when I reach the final save point. Ergo, no folders are created for each type of mail. In a later playthrough I'll make sure to read all the mail as soon as possible.


- I am amused by the helicopter crash that the journey through the snowy mountains begin with.
A) The establishing shot shows Zack alone. He stands up, shouts, then looks back and suddenly there Tseng and the two infantrymen are. They are clearly getting up from the snow and shaking themselves back to life, yet they were not present in the earlier shot, nor did Zack bother to look around before starting to shout.

B1) There's not even a reason given for WHY the helicopter crashes. The narrative purpose is transparent though: Extend the gameplay segment by making Zack land further away from their destination, so that he can have bonding time with Cloud. The topic of conversation is that the team has to walk a great distance and only the country boys, Zack and Cloud, keep up well. This type of scene/dialogue may have been more difficult to force if the helicopter had simply landed a shorter distance away in order to avoid detection.

B2) One sad thing about this helicopter crash in CC is...DC: Lost Episode did it better. In this cell phone episode, it starts with Vincent in a helicopter either on the way directly to Shinra Manor or to the Junon harbor (immediate destination not specified, but the final destination is Shinra Manor). The aircraft is then attacked by Deepground gargoyles, they drag out the pilot, then drag out Vincent who turns into Galian Beast and has an awesome aerial battle with gargoyles, then he lands on the ground and the empty helicopter crashes.

If aerial Genesis copies had caused the helicopter crash in the Crisis Core scenario, I don't know if that would have hurt the plot too much. Maybe the argument would be that if Genesis knew Zack and the rest were coming he would have fled (SPOILER) (then again if no Genesis copies escaped from the site to report about the helicopter, there would be no problem in the plot). But at least the DC: Lost Episode scenario is still better because you get an explanation AND an awesome cutscene (the aerial fight).
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Old 02/01/2015   #88
Shademp
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- Before Tseng and Zack head off to Modeoheim, they both suffer from the problem of their lips not moving when they speak. I made note of this in the second page of this thread, but I confirmed now that this problem is true for both versions of the game.

- The Replicon birds in the snowy mountains I can understand, but Bizarre Bugs? No! I don't care that the bugs are mega-huge and would probably survive well in snow. Bugs don't aesthetically fit in with snow and cold.

- Zack's Metal Gear Solid bit, when infiltrating the Mako Excavation Test Site, is yet another questionable minigame. Combining squats and maintaining Zack's body temperature is a neat way of combining two minigames from the original game, yes. Not only that, but having you sneak past guards in CC may be a tribute to the section where Cloud, Barret and Tifa sneak past guards in the Shinra HQ. I see what you did there, Square.

But because Crisis Core is a shorter game than the original FFVII, the minigames feel more cramped, disruptive and lame. Doesn't help that many of the CC minigames ARE way retarded in their setup, especially in the Sector 5 Slums market. I don't want to rant about it at length right now, but let's just say that the developers of CC left behind their brains a little too much when paying homage to FFVII by including a ton of minigames.

Hilarious how the Genesis copies won't spot you even if you stand right in front of them, as long as you don't go beyond the empty gate. El oh el.


- Question: Does Zack say that a monster caused the helicopter crash in the Japanese game? I hear he says "monster" in the JP game.

(SPOILER)


In the English game all he says is...


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Old 02/01/2015   #89
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the japanese line talks about a 'sudden greeting/welcoming by monsters', which sounds like a playful way to way monsters attacked them.
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Old 02/01/2015   #90
Shademp
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Thank you so much Hito. <3 That clears up the scenario of the helicopter crash.

*My reaction when now learning of what was lost in translation*
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