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View Poll Results: Should the Thanks system continue?
Yes. 24 60.00%
Yes, but be restricted in certain sections (Discuss). 12 30.00%
No. 4 10.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04/14/2016   #46
Cat Rage Room
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I never particularly disliked the Thanks system, but if it vanished overnight, I wouldn't mind it either. I can definitely see how the Thanks system hurts instead of help, though. I've never been on another community and thought "Man, this place would be great with a Thanks system!"
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Old 04/14/2016   #47
Minato
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JBedford128 wrote: I don't know about Chrome's version.
works with Chrome too.
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Old 04/14/2016   #48
Mr. Ite
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In regards to "cliques" I am totally oblivious to that but I think extrapolating from the Thanks sections of threads might lead you astray.

I think without thanks we'll be seeing a lot more of this

concise and reasonable debate point
^This! This! 1000 times this!
Thanks bro!
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AvecAloes (04/14/2016), Channy (04/16/2016), Cthulhu (04/15/2016), Doom Bunneh (04/15/2016), Fangu (04/15/2016), ForceStealer (04/14/2016), Howl (04/14/2016), Kermitu Kleric Katie (04/17/2016), LicoriceAllsorts (04/15/2016), Literally Who? (04/14/2016), Mayo Master (04/15/2016), Minato (04/14/2016), Obsidian Fire (04/14/2016), Octo (04/14/2016), RedFFWolf (04/14/2016), Shademp (04/15/2016), Starling (04/14/2016), The Twilight Mexican (04/15/2016)
Old 04/14/2016   #49
Octo
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^what Ite said.

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Old 04/15/2016   #50
Clement Rage
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I have no personal issues with the thanks system (although I have had that 'TTM (tres) didn't thank my post! Something is horribly wrong!' thought process. ) But based on the problems other people have mentioned, I think that's cause enough to think about restricting it temporarily, so that's what I'm voting.
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Old 04/15/2016   #51
Dawnbreaker
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Just a quick note -- I also voted "no" in error. The poll is a little confusing...

i'll post more later, but honestly, I've got some stuffz to do.
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Old 04/15/2016   #52
Dawnbreaker
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double-post:

So I read through the thread and here are my thoughts:

Since I don't occupy the debate threads anymore (which is not related to the Thanks, btw), I'm don't personally care about whether you take it from that section, although I still see that as extreme and not addressing the actual situation. Having not seen these hurtful or whatever Thanking situations, I can't say whether a problem exists or is simply an issue with perception.

FYI -- I won't post more if you take the Thanks from the debates section; I'd probably post there less, feeling as if the area has been neutered, for lack of a more delicate word.

I also say that taking the Thanks away from the rest of the forum is totally unfair. No one seems to be able to say this issue occurs outside of the debates forum, so why take it from the entire forum? Just because a couple of people may or may not be abusing it in one section of the forum, does that validate taking it completely away from those that aren't?

I also have to say, with all due respect and in light of the fact that I have not seen said offensive Thanking, that, yes, some people do need to not take this stuff to heart. Sometimes I don't thank someone because I forget; sometimes I don't thank someone simply because I'm lazy. It's (almost, come on, we're all human) never out of spite.

And honestly, I fear we are going down a bad path here by censoring people so completely. Restricting people's freedoms rather than actually addressing the problem at hand is, in my opinion, always trouble.
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"I'll make you happy," said Life, "But first, I'll make you strong."

"You can do everything right and still lose. That is not weakness; that is Life." Jean-Luc Picard / Patrick Stewart

"It may well be that we will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and the violent actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence and indifference of the good people." Martin Luthar King Jr.


Last edited by Dawnbreaker; 04/15/2016 at 03:59 AM. Reason: typos
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Thanked by 11:
Cthulhu (04/15/2016), Doom Bunneh (04/15/2016), Fangu (04/15/2016), Flintlock (04/17/2016), JechtShotMK9 (05/14/2016), Kermitu Kleric Katie (04/17/2016), Kuroto (04/15/2016), Obsidian Fire (04/15/2016), RedFFWolf (04/15/2016), Starling (04/15/2016), The Twilight Mexican (04/15/2016)
Old 04/15/2016   #53
Mr. Ite
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Dawnbreaker wrote: Just a quick note -- I also voted "no" in error. The poll is a little confusing...

i'll post more later, but honestly, I've got some stuffz to do.
I just had flashbacks to Prop 8.
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Old 04/15/2016   #54
Dawnbreaker
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I'm honestly confused. What do you mean?
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"I'll make you happy," said Life, "But first, I'll make you strong."

"You can do everything right and still lose. That is not weakness; that is Life." Jean-Luc Picard / Patrick Stewart

"It may well be that we will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and the violent actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence and indifference of the good people." Martin Luthar King Jr.

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Old 04/15/2016   #55
Claymore
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Mr. Ite wrote: I think without thanks we'll be seeing a lot more of this

^This! This! 1000 times this!
Thanks bro!
I frequent dozens of forums without a thanks system (in fact, this is the only forum I'm in that has it) and I don't see this regularly at all. What I do tend to see is people quoting or snipping a post and actually posting their thoughts on why they do (or do not) agree with something. I've read people in this thread say it doesn't encourage more posting if people can't just thank it and I'm shocked, as that's just simply untrue. That's fine if that's the nature of the environment here, but it works elsewhere.
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Doom Bunneh (04/15/2016), Flare (04/15/2016), Joe (04/15/2016), Kermitu Kleric Katie (04/17/2016), LicoriceAllsorts (04/15/2016), Obsidian Fire (04/15/2016), RedFFWolf (04/15/2016), The Twilight Mexican (04/15/2016)
Old 04/15/2016   #56
LicoriceAllsorts
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FWIW, I have no problem with the Thanks system in any of the threads, but if it deterring people from taking part in debates then we should at least experiment with removing it. Two caveats though:

- if someone's views are minority or unpopular, this will quickly become apparent in other ways if the Thanks system is removed

- I agree with Ite that we could see a lot of more of people making posts that say "I agree!" or "Word!" or whatever, which don't add any more to the debate than the Thanks do but can be equally intimidating to the minority view. So maybe what is needed is discourage all posts in the debate threads that aren't a constructive addition to, or response to, what has already been said.

BTW in all debates there is always a vote at the end to see who wins.
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Old 04/15/2016   #57
Minato
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Dawnbreaker wrote: No one seems to be able to say this issue occurs outside of the debates forum, so why take it from the entire forum?
News, Politics, Religion, & Debate forum just has the highest concentration of serious arguments where this issue can arise but it's not exclusive to it.
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Old 04/15/2016   #58
Ghost X
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I had actually made this poll based on remarks I've heard over some period of time about how thanks are used over the entire forum, not just the debate section (though I was aware of that viewpoint hence the option in the poll).

I've not seen evidence that there is an external view that TLS is a big circle jerk, and I'm not saying it is a major issue, but for a minority it might be. That's why I place emphasis on the question of whether we are sympathetic to said minority, as most of us obviously aren't of this minority. People of this minority who are currently here have every right to be anonymous, and appear to be smaller in number than I expected going by the current poll result.

I made this thread knowing a majority of complainants have left (ie: mostly newbies who don't feel welcome). It isn't like i have hard data, but as the saying goes: for every person that protests there's likely a lot more that share the opinion. Iceberg scenario. This perception could be entirely wrong or overblown, which is precisely why I put this up for scrutiny. I'm certainly not hallucinating as I was in a discussion the other day where this was brought up, ie: a newer member saying "why don't I get thanks but they do." Twas the straw that broke the camel's back :p.
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Last edited by Ghost X; 04/16/2016 at 12:16 AM.
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Thanked by 12:
Cthulhu (04/15/2016), Dawnbreaker (04/15/2016), Doom Bunneh (04/15/2016), Flare (04/15/2016), Joe (04/15/2016), Kermitu Kleric Katie (04/17/2016), LicoriceAllsorts (04/15/2016), Minato (04/15/2016), Obsidian Fire (04/15/2016), RedFFWolf (04/15/2016), Teioh (04/15/2016), The Twilight Mexican (04/15/2016)
Old 04/15/2016   #59
Obsidian Fire
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Ghost X wrote: I'm certainly not hallucinating as I was in a discussion the other day where this was brought up, ie: a newer member saying "why don't I get thanks but they do." Twas the straw that broke the camel's back :p.
This to me is just an extension of real life though. People who are well known within a group are always going to get more feedback then people who aren't and the only way to get known is to talk more (post stuff). It takes a while for people to get to know where a person is coming from, if they're being serious or not, etc. in real life, and that takes even longer in a forum setting as people aren't talking face-to-face.

My response to this: "why don't I get thanks but they do." is that it's got nothing to do with popularity and everything to do with what was in the post and if people know where that person is coming from.

Then again, this is like other introverts asking me as an introvert how to get extroverts to talk with them more and me telling them to get over being introverts and talk more 'cause the extroverts aren't going to notice them if they don't. It's just the way the Western social media works; if you don't put yourself out there, no one is going to notice you. If you want to get noticed on a forum post things that people agree with or think are interesting, otherwise you won't stand out.

Other things that help people get noticed is all the forum gingerbread like usernames and signatures and avatars. I'd be lying if I said I didn't pay more attention to people with thematic usernames/signatures/avatars because it's a lot easier to remember other posts that they've written (especially if they don't change their usernames). People who don't have those or have more generic usernames/avatars/signatures are harder to remember because I don't have an image associated with them. Heck, that's part of the reason I changed my username/avatar/signature, or at the very least that's part of the reason I haven't changed it back. I know people know it's me when I post (I've got a recognized personal brand for lack of a better term) and switching that up isn't a good thing. (Being someone who is studying marketing can be annoying sometimes.) Okay, and it's my favorite FPS character ever...

I just think that if we're approaching this from the perspective of "the new people aren't getting thanked so lets removed the thanks system" then we're doing it wrong. Once the thanks system is gone, something else will come along that determines who's perceived as popular and who isn't. That's just the way real life works.
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Thanked by 11:
AvecAloes (04/15/2016), Cthulhu (04/15/2016), Dawnbreaker (04/15/2016), Fangu (04/15/2016), Jason Tandro (04/15/2016), Kermitu Kleric Katie (04/17/2016), Mayo Master (04/15/2016), Minato (04/15/2016), RedFFWolf (04/15/2016), Teioh (04/15/2016), The Twilight Mexican (04/15/2016)
Old 04/15/2016   #60
Lex
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Here is my post on this from the staff section, where this discussion started (I actually thought it was public at the time):

Can I just say, speaking as someone who was very much a part of the "outgroup" back when that I completely understand how horrible it feels to be ridiculed after making a serious/ thought-out post and watch forty people thank the cunty response.

We've had a thread exactly like this before - back when all of that horribleness was happening, where people were told to "grow a thicker skin" etc. The problem wasn't the system itself, it was the following:

- How the system was used (i.e. e-peen buddy measurement, people trying to be 4-chan lite)
- Toxic board culture
- Failings of staff (specifically staff putting victims of flaming/abuse at fault and saying they were being too sensitive rather than blaming the actual people causing trouble in an attempt to appease the troublemakers)

I became a staff member a while after the great exodus of 2012 and fought hard to be as inclusive and welcoming as possible because I went through the bullshit of being totally ignored by half the members when I tried to join discussions and then I'd get trolled and a thousand people would thank the troll while I sat there wondering what I'd done wrong. I know how shitty that feels and so do a lot of others, hence the old discussion about the thanks system (which became a drama thread super quick).

If there's even a whiff of going down that path again, we're all putting a stop to it now. None of the new members will know how horrendous a place the board used to be for new people. My posts are sometimes a bit confrontational if I feel defensive about a topic, and those tend not to get thanked at all. That's as it should be IMO.

I think it also needs saying though that the bullshit that happened back then won't be repeated as long as I'm a mod. I'm all for saying what you want to say, but the rule is don't be a dick and it's an easy rule to follow. Don't intentionally antagonise or personally attack people, that's it. People know how they're coming across when they're typing a post and they usually also know how that post is going to be received, so pleading ignorance will not work.

Anyway that's a bit of a tangent, but it's all connected. Our current board culture is a thousand times better than it used to be, but we should be vigilant about how our actions are going to affect everyone on the board. There really is no in-crowd now, just familiarity. No animosity is intended toward newer members, and I won't let TLS go down that road again.

We can have a referendum on this if people want for sure. I don't particularly care about the thanks system being a part of the board or not, but I know that it absolutely has an effect on the experience of some members whether that be a positive or negative thing.
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Thanked by 10:
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