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Go Back   The Lifestream Forums > Compilation of Final Fantasy VII > Final Fantasy VII Remake

Final Fantasy VII Remake The remake of FFVII announced at E3 on June 15th, 2015 -- OUR WHOLE LIVES HAVE BEEN LEADING UP TO THIS MOMENT!!

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Old 01/28/2018   #1456
Addy Carver
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That's too deep for a Sunday night.

I'm just gonna throw out here that of all the Compilation, I've played VII, watched Advent Children and played a bit of Dirge so anything beyond that I have to plead ignorance of.
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Old 01/29/2018   #1457
The Twilight Mexican
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ChipNoir wrote:
Lin Feng wrote: I don't think it's hard to believe that cait sith has an independent thought process. When you think about it logically how exactly would reeve be able to control him all the time while still working within Shinra?
I always thought it more plausible that it ran with a sort of AI that reeve was the architect of but when he wasn't around it was free to make independent decisions.
If I were to push for anything in this game to be delved deeper into, the concept of AI existing side-by-side with a culture that has an actual confirmed afterlife that people are aware of. That offers a lot of insight to a character like Cait Sith, especially if he does have an independent AI, and if said AI has to process the idea that Cait Sith 1.0 was his own independent AI as well.

How do you react if you have access to the same memories, but you didn't experience them yourself? Do you worry more about your own future, knowing that you won't live on the way a living entity will in the Lifestream? Do you have any stakes in the world, when you have no participation in it's cycle of life?
Perhaps as worthy of consideration: would the possibility exist for you to become part of that cycle since memories=life, they can be copied/transferred as data, and that world's equivalent of the Internet can interface with the Lifestream via SND?
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Old 01/29/2018   #1458
Addy Carver
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Old 01/29/2018   #1459
LicoriceAllsorts
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Presumably Cait Sith is mako-powered in some way?
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Old 01/29/2018   #1460
Ergo
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I think this discussion is straying away from the topic at hand. Maybe worthwhile splitting this into its own thread?

That said I genuinely expected more to have been dropped relating to the remake with the coming of the new year. I know kingdom hearts 3 is a definite drop for this year (he says optimistically) but this drip feeding screens is somewhat annoying.
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Old 01/29/2018   #1461
Shademp
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The Twilight Mexican wrote: SND
I just now realized this is another Compilation reference I'd like to see in the remake.

It's already been long visualized in my head that the player might find obscure references by hacking into Scarlet's and/or Heidegger's computer(s). The player might then find references to Deepground, Tsviets, Synaptic Net Dives etc either as the names to folders that the player can't open, or as revealed keywords in encrypted documents that the player (or some tech-savvy NPC) have only managed to partially decrypt.

I picture these optional references being available either during the infiltration of Shinra HQ, the "disc 2" revisit to Midgar or after the fall of Shinra (or all of these aforementioned instances).
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Old 01/29/2018   #1462
Teioh
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I love the idea of optional references which observant players can kind of sniff out. I posted on tumblr last year about maybe being able to discover President Shinra's passcode as a nod to Episode Shinra (and as a Rufus Shinra fan, well I'd be delighted ), just little random details that fans and players of the compilation can find and squeal nod sagely at. I'm totally relying on TLS to hunt them all down if they do exist
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Old 01/29/2018   #1463
ChipNoir
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I suppose the opportunity is there. You'd have access to President ShinRa's desk...
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Old 01/29/2018   #1464
Cat Rage Room
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While the remake shoehorning in the Compilation in the main game would be a fucking pain in the ass, it would be irresponsible for them as writers and forming a narrative to just forget it exists entirely. I hate that shit; if you write something in a lore, follow through with it (and make it better) unless you consciously write it out. I'm fine with optional references in a larger world.
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Old 01/29/2018   #1465
ChipNoir
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Cat Rage Room wrote: While the remake shoehorning in the Compilation in the main game would be a fucking pain in the ass, it would be irresponsible for them as writers and forming a narrative to just forget it exists entirely. I hate that shit; if you write something in a lore, follow through with it (and make it better) unless you consciously write it out. I'm fine with optional references in a larger world.
They have a loophole through Untrustworthy Narrator. For a large majority of the game, we look at the events through Cloud's eyes. Aside from cryptic existential break downs that have no context till Disc 2, we trust Cloud's knowledge to be true.

So until the we get to the Mideel arc, any and all compilation nods could be buried away along with the truth in Cloud's memories. We may not get any references till part III, at which point they would have played it safe by hooking in even the most die-hard anti-compilation people. It might piss them off when Golden Hilt, ShinRa Files, and Genesis Cameos come flying in part three and beyond, but at that point they'd be locked in, or at least have paid for 2/3rds of the franchise. Everything except for Cloud and Tifa being attacked by Genesis Clones and the Gold Hilt has been more or less carefully written to not conflict with the canon by killing off characters, sending them into hiding, or that ShinRa has a strangle hold on all information.

It'd be devious, but I'm not entirely sure Square would realize this opportunity is there. But they 'could' go this route, and build a LOT of material for the final part as both padding, and a reward for Compilation loyalists that would eagerly seek this material out.
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Old 01/30/2018   #1466
Clement Rage
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References have to be used very very sparingly IMO, it became a big problem for BC that it felt the need to reference everything.

Re Deepground, as someone that most likely loves Dirge more than most of you, I think it's better off left alone. Undermines the super secret nature of it to be able to say 'Oh, yeah, we stumbled across that completely by accident before, we just never bothered to bring it up.'
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Old 01/30/2018   #1467
Cat Rage Room
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Undermines the super secret nature of it
As opposed to the dozens of other super secrets that the party/player finds out during FFVII?

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. When I was a kid I was sold on the idea of secrets being so secret that nobody ever finds out but I think when I joined the Navy the concept fell apart as preposterous when you start seeing shit that's supposed to be SUPER SECRET accidentally divulged in emails, voicemail messages, slips of paper that people forget in the mess hall, divulged to their booty calls, etc etc.

I remember when the Deus Ex games came around. A lot of the games involve sneaking around and having to find passwords to computers, electronic locks, PIN numbers etc etc, and a lot of the solutions to said passports (if the player doesn't feel like hacking them) are found in game on notepads, emails, scribbled down on scraps of paper etc etc. A few players pointed out "Isn't that unrealistic that passwords to super secret shit are just found by the player by soda machines and shit" and the developers (and a few players) responded that no, people really do that.

Let me be another one to tell you; people really do that shit.

There's a lot of state secrets that a lot of people will never know, but almost nothing is that secret, especially if you're already in the position to find out secrets, (like naval personnel like myself dicking around), or the FFVII party.
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Old 01/30/2018   #1468
Minato
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It's established that Vincent and Reeve specifically don't know about don't know about Deepground specifically. Plenty of people in the FFVII world might, but the FFVII do not. It's different with Genesis, nothing established during or after FFVII neccesitates that Cloud or anyone else can't know about him (and plenty of reason to be believe that he does).
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Old 01/30/2018   #1469
Cat Rage Room
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It's established that Vincent and Reeve specifically don't know about don't know about Deepground specifically. Plenty of people in the FFVII world might, but the FFVII do not.
huh what???

Respectfully, I don't understand that sentence.

If what you're trying to say is that Vincent's and Reeve's ignorance of Deepground implies that the party of FFVII by extension also couldn't know about it, that doesn't mean that they couldn't include a reference.

The audience/player knows (or could know) about Deepground, and they could easily throw in a reference to Deepground that the party couldn't decipher but the player could.

References don't have to be as heavy handed as "HEY GUYS LOOK SOMETHING CALLED 'DEEPGROUND'S' A THING WE HAVEN'T HEARD ABOUT YET HUH HOW ABOUT THAT CLOUD ANYWAY TIME TO STOP SEPHIROTH"
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Old 01/30/2018   #1470
Tashasaurous
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Cat Rage Room wrote:
It's established that Vincent and Reeve specifically don't know about Deepground specifically. Plenty of people in the FFVII world might, but the FFVII do not.
huh what???

Respectfully, I don't understand that sentence.

If what you're trying to say is that Vincent's and Reeve's ignorance of Deepground implies that the party of FFVII by extension also couldn't know about it, that doesn't mean that they couldn't include a reference.

The audience/player knows (or could know) about Deepground, and they could easily throw in a reference to Deepground that the party couldn't decipher but the player could.

References don't have to be as heavy handed as "HEY GUYS LOOK SOMETHING CALLED 'DEEPGROUND'S' A THING WE HAVEN'T HEARD ABOUT YET HUH HOW ABOUT THAT CLOUD ANYWAY TIME TO STOP SEPHIROTH"
I get what you mean, but I think what Minato is trying to say is neither of them knew about Deepground until Dirge of Cerberus is basically because the only people who truly know about all of that(and quite possibly Veld and some of the Turks) are the President, Scarlet, Heidegger and Hojo and they're pretty good in keeping dark secrets.

Heck, even Rufus probably didn't know any of that. Unless Cloud comes up with a single report in the ShinRa Manor briefly indicating Deepground and he'd be like, "Huh...I don't remember this. Probably another one of Hojo's secrets." or something like that, I doubt Deepground would be fully referenced in the remake.

The only thing I can think of closely related to Dirge of Cerberus is how Vincent would look when he transforms into Chaos. But just because players would know, doesn't mean the characters of both the original game and the remake would know, because the year is different.

We go back and forth through time in different perspectives with the characters also as viewers. FFVII world and the Compilation world are completely different compared to reality.
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