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Final Fantasy VII Remake The remake of FFVII announced at E3 on June 15th, 2015 -- OUR WHOLE LIVES HAVE BEEN LEADING UP TO THIS MOMENT!!

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Old 02/03/2018   #1
lvladskillz
Default FF7: Remake Materia System hopes and thoughts?

How do we think the materia system will work guys? I found this video with a really intriguing concept https://youtu.be/-22j_hDdO_I think he maybe onto something.
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Old 02/03/2018   #2
Vyzzuvazzadth
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I personally think it will function about the same as in the original game. The skill tree idea sound intriguing, however.

Each Materia having its own little "Sphere Grid" can potentially offer much more depth. For example instead of just unlocking higher tiers, you could also unlock decreased MP consumption, increased damage or decreased casting time (a very important factor in an action-based battle system).

They could even add stat bonuses for the character like strength+ for Fire Materia, Defense+ for Ice Materia and "ATB" speed (faster combo gauge) for Bolt Materia. Those should be just minor boosts, though, since there's still independent Materia providing such boosts.

We also still need support Materia for offering a variety of combinations. All for example adds AoE while Elemental functions the same as in the original. I don't think it's wise to eliminate support Materia and bury their effects inside other Materia's skill trees. The main aspect of the Materia system is its versatility and countless combinations. If we trade Materia combinations for skill trees, this system will lose a lot of value in my opinion.
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Old 02/03/2018   #3
ChipNoir
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I think I'm of the same mind as Vyzz. I appreciate the idea of a skill tree per materia, but not as a replacement for support spells. You'd lose what main core of the materia system by getting rid of that element.
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Old 02/04/2018   #4
Kain424
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That would be pretty wild to complicate the materia system like that. It's not out the question, but it doesn't seem likely.
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Old 02/07/2018   #5
Lucis Caelum
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I say it would work something akin to Crisis Core materia fusion, you level the materias to make them stronger, fuse x-tier materia with the another of the y-tier to get a new one (fire+fire=fira, fira+firaga=fira, slash+fira=fire slash, etc). You level up them up by killing enemies or completing quests.
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Old 02/07/2018   #6
Mr. Ite
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If you could fuse 2 one-star fire materia to get 1 2-star fire materia, you could be casting Fire2 one hour into the game. That doesn't seem right.
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Old 02/07/2018   #7
Cat Rage Room
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While I'd welcome good adjustments/upgrades, the original Materia system really didn't have that many problems.

The problem is that the original game was far too easy and unbalanced, and thus the player wasn't encouraged to ever really dig deep into the Materia system or have much lateral thinking to solve problems (because the game is so easy, there really aren't any).

You could win a majority of the battles with physical attacks, and for a long stretch of the game, Magic materia is next to useless (until you get Contain) and Enemy Skill materia is just straight broken and way too powerful.

A smart game designer really could make the most out of the Materia system with the current game!
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Old 02/07/2018   #8
ForceStealer
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Yeah, I downloaded a hard mode mod for the PC version once...but all it did was give the enemies preposterously high HP counts. I wish someone made like a balanced hard mode.

I mean, maybe it did more later? But I didn't get out of the No. 1 Reactor. Every battle took like 10 minutes and you don't have much means of healing.
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Old 02/07/2018   #9
Cat Rage Room
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Yeah, the idea of 'challenge' that just inflates enemy HP is seriously amateur hour. If anything, real challenge is often when battles are shorter (not necessarily short, though) but tense and demanding with the player's goal being to swing the advantage in their favor as efficiently as possible before the enemy either wears you down or defeats you (and trying to do the same to them!) with clever strategy, knowledge of the game's rules and mechanics, and responding to changing situations.

Optimal challenge is often a tug of war on a burning bridge, not trying to level a mountain with a spoon.
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Old 02/07/2018   #10
X-SOLDIER
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Cat Rage Room wrote: Optimal challenge is often a tug of war on a burning bridge, not trying to level a mountain with a spoon.
Best analogy ever.


One of the odd things about FFXV was how the system lets you just grind your way through and make it easy if you want, but there's a LOT more depth to the system if you want to have more of a challenge, and there's also stuff like post-game bosses and EX stuff to add challenges that I like to be able to plumb the depths of a system into both ends of things being OP.

Doing a dungeon with no bosses and also taking down the Adamantoise are both very different types of challenges and I like having both of them in parts of the game, and a more flexible difficulty throughout the main game that allows you to grind out of it if you want.




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Old 02/08/2018   #11
ChipNoir
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I think the best example of a hardmod for VII has been New Threat.

Yes, enemies are beefy, but they also threw in unusual behaviors. I'm not that far into New Threat, but I was already fascinated by how I had to maintain Barret's stacked buffs, and how much more intense the Scorpion Guard battle became when it's previously useless scan ability became something that could completely undo my stacked buffs if I didn't correct Barret's row location asap.

So I think the key to difficulty is keeping things from falling into a set pattern. You can't have enemies act randomly, but you can't just have every enemy be as simple as Hit It's Weak Point And It's Dead.

If there were a skill tree for each materia, I'd want it to be a lot of behavior changes but only a limited number of skills said materia can learn before it's maxed it. Do I go for an augment that allows me to have a wider area of effect when ALL is attached? Or do I give it tracking properties so it can hone in a single enemy that might have the ability to avoid the spell that would otherwise be able to kill it?

Then later on, maybe end of Game 1, we can get our hands on a system that allows us to fuse that together, so you can start narrowing down your very large materia collection.
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Old 02/09/2018   #12
ForceStealer
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^Right, but beefing the hell out of Sector 1 Reactor fights is just tedious. You don't have any options for strategy yet. I don't know what you mean by "Barret's stacked buffs"
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ultima espio wrote: I'm not sure if it was a BOMB, it could have been MAKO, KING, BEST, or ORBS.
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Old 02/09/2018   #13
ChipNoir
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ForceStealer wrote: ^Right, but beefing the hell out of Sector 1 Reactor fights is just tedious. You don't have any options for strategy yet. I don't know what you mean by "Barret's stacked buffs"
In New Threat, each character besides Cloud gets a special gimmick.

In Barret's case, Barret can gain either three offensive or three defensive buff ups if he takes damage in either front row or back row. That advantage is considerably important to survive certain enemies or take out enemies faster.

Scorpion Guard throws a wrench into this, as it's new Magnetic Scan ability forces Barret to change a row. If you've already initiated an attack, that leaves Barret open to an attack, which would reset the buff you wanted to use and force you to try to rebuild that advantage.

The battles in New Threat aren't that much longer to me, maybe 2-3 minutes versus 1-2. Maybe we're not playing the same version or the same mod? I know its undergone some changes over it's life span. New Threat really is built more on risk/reward, and making your choices count.
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Old 02/09/2018   #14
ForceStealer
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Interesting, that's definitely different. I think I tried this one.
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ultima espio wrote: I'm not sure if it was a BOMB, it could have been MAKO, KING, BEST, or ORBS.
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Old 02/10/2018   #15
ChipNoir
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ForceStealer wrote: Interesting, that's definitely different. I think I tried this one.
Yeah with New Threat, enemies hit harder, and with a bigger variety of moves, while you have less resources than normal. Its well thought out from what I've seen. Even how materia functions on stats is changed.
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