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Compilation General Discussions on the entire timeline of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII not limited to a single title, including the tie-ins from Final Fantasy X, and speculation on future content.

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Old 02/10/2018   #1
Shademp
Default Is OG-Cloud "dorky"?

*split off from the Concept art from art gallery thread*

At the end of the FF 30th Anniversary exhibit, Nomura made a surprise appearance, showed some new designs for the main characters and made the following comment:
A fan attendance described Cloud’s new design as a more natural look. Nomura and Hamaguchi mentioned that “while Cloud may look this way, he was a dork. I believe those of you who played the the original would understand what I mean by saying he’s a dorky character.”
My apologies Nomura, but no. I do not understand.


Far as I can tell, to be "dorky" has multiple connotations: To be stupid, socially inept and/or awkward. Having these traits may lead to one ending up in silly situations or coming off as silly.

However, my memory of Cloud Strife in the original game doesn't subscribe to this image of him.

I can see why some people would think this way though. Cloud's overly serious and depressed depictions in Advent Children, Kingdom Hearts (and to a degree the PSP Dissidia titles) has caused a backlash and makes people long for the original game's Cloud. People point to the instance of Cloud saying "Let's Mosey" in the Northern Cave as a prime example of who Cloud is "supposed" to be. But is this really how Cloud was for most of the game? Or even how he acted after he recovered from mako poisoning, when Cloud is supposed to be more true to himself? I'm not getting that impression.

My impression is rather that the backlash against AC-Cloud is so strong that their idea of OG-Cloud overcompensates, turning him from a mostly neutral, non-distinct personality into a "dorky" one.


----------------------
Quotes from the Concept art thread:

ChipNoir wrote:
Shademp wrote:
Minato wrote: Real Cloud is suppose to be an awkward boy, I feel like that's establised
Boy Cloud is at least meant to have trouble fitting in socially (which is then hinted at more in Crisis Core) but is adult Cloud "awkward" during the adventure in the original game? Is that what people mean by Cloud supposedly being "dorky"? If so, then I have little to no understanding of where that perception comes from.
Dorky isn't really that blunt a word. It's mostly an insult towards anyone who is acting foolish at the time, or whose been caught up in a situation that makes them look bad to the amusement of others.

When you look over the comedic moments in the game, Cloud has a habit of letting events steam roll right over him, and taking him along with it for whatever ride the writers want to take him on. That's the "Dorky" side, which is kinda ultimately summed up by "Let's Mosey."

Cloud is a country boy trying very hard to be a cool guy, and sometimes doesn't quite stick the landing.
ForceStealer wrote: See also, Cid's assessment:
Cid wrote: "I want you to know that I didn't dislike him."
"Gotta admit he was a strange dude."
"Just when you thought he was cool, he'd go and do some damn fool thing."
"And when you thought he was smart, he'd show how stupid he was."
----------------------
I always pictured Cid referring more to Cloud's screw-ups: Handing the Black Materia to Sephiroth twice and beating up Aerith and then almost cleaving her in half. But there is definitely room for interpretation.

I question the idea of Cloud being "dorky". He got enrolled in shenanigans over at the Wall Market and I admit he gets a bit steam-rolled when he doesn't put his foot down against Cait Sith joining their party. But that still leaves me wondering how people are viewing Cloud and what Nomura's quote actually means.


For dissection by those who know Japanese, here is the "Let's Mosey" text in both English and Japanese.

Let's Mosey

{Cloud}
“All right, everyone, let's mosey.”

「よし、行こうよ、みんな」

{Cid}
“Damn! Again!”
“Stop sayin' it like a wimp!”
“Can't you say
'Move out!' or somethin'?”

「カーーッ! またかよっ!」
「やめてくれよ
 その気の抜けた言い方」
「『行くぜ!!』くらい
 言えねぇのかよ」

{Cloud}
“Move out!!”

「行くぜ!!」


Cid may say "Again!" implying that Cloud has made this mistake before of not choosing appropriate phrasing, but there is no other instance of Cloud saying "Mosey", or even of him saying the Japanese equivalent, "行こうよ" at any other point in the game. So I have no idea what previous instance Cid is referring to, if any.
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Old 02/10/2018   #2
JBedford
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I think this is the original Japanese quote. カッコ悪い "kakko warui" basically just means "uncool" or "lame".
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Old 02/10/2018   #3
Lex
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Awkward probably encompasses him best, but I'm not sure what they could do to his physical design to reflect that. The designs we've already seen are fine IMO.
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Old 02/10/2018   #4
Shademp
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Lex wrote: but I'm not sure what they could do to his physical design to reflect that.
I took Nomura's quote as saying that Cloud's new, more "natural" look (whatever that means) specifically does NOT reflect Cloud's awkward nature and that only his behavior will show that aspect of him.
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Old 02/10/2018   #5
Obsidian Fire
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Dorky is a bit of a slang term. I don't see it being used as a substitute for stupid, but as a way of saying "socially awkward" which fits Cloud very well. It's one of the few character traits that's in both his soldier persona and afer he figures out who he really is.

I was pretty happy to find out that was something they were trying to get across in the Remake as it's missing in most other games Cloud shows up in.
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Old 02/10/2018   #6
ForceStealer
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Like you said, Cid saying "Again" refers to Cloud just being uncool in general, not specifically saying ikou/mosey.
One example of Cloud being uncool (potentially) around Cid I can think of is after kicking Shinra's ass in Junon, storming and commandeering a submarine, and immediately he wavers instead of taking command. And of course their disagreement over Shinra's rocket plan. Cid also disagreed with Cloud staying behind for him when the rocket was going to crash:

Cid
Don't worry 'bout me. Hurry up and go! If you don't hurry, the rocket's gonna crash into Meteor!

Cloud
...I can't go without my friends.

Cid
You ^%#@&%......! No time to worry 'bout other people!

Cloud
I'm gonna do whatever I can.

Cid
You're stupid. You're really $#&^%$* stupid.
Also, Cloud wavers after the rocket plan, while Cid is inspired:

Cid
Yeah, I been thinkin' about this and that.
All the time we been up here lookin' at the planet.
I been thinkin' even when we were floatin' in the ocean in that escape pod.

Cloud
I've... been thinking too. About the universe... planet... ocean.
How wide and big... No matter where I go and what I do it won't change a thing.

Cid
Maybe you're right.
But I came up with something different.
I always thought this planet was so huge.
But lookin' at it from space, I realized it's so small.
We're just floatin' in the dark. ......kind of makes you feel powerless.
On top of that it's got Sephiroth festerin' inside it like a sickness.
That's why I say this planet's still a kid.
A little kid sick and trembling in the middle of this huge universe.
Someone's gotta protect it.
Ya follow me? That someone is us.
Cloud gave Cid ample views of how "uncool" he was.

Lol, here's another. When Cloud says they'll fight Diamond, Cid asks if Cloud thinks they can win:

Cloud
OK! Let's go! We'll beat Weapon ourselves!

Cid
Hey Cloud......
You think we can win against that monster? We got a chance of winnin', right?

Cloud
How would I know?
Not exactly an inspiring response Now, he does say "let's move" after that, I don't know if the Japanese is something forceful like 行くぞ! or not. But either way, answering the question like that could definitely be another case of him "sayin' it like a wimp."
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Last edited by ForceStealer; 02/10/2018 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 02/10/2018   #7
Clement Rage
Default

Seems like one of those cases where a character trait gets exaggerated by the fanbase and becomes a more dominant characteristic. Cloud had a bit of awkwardness, but it wasn't really a core character beat as far as I could tell.

Like the depression in AC, it got overstated in the retelling. But we'll see.
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Old 02/10/2018   #8
Minato
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Awkward as his true self is, he's definitely suppose to be appear as this absolute badass to Jessie, Biggs and Wedge. So I dunno if the adjustments we are now hearing off are all that great.
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Old 02/10/2018   #9
Cat Rage Room
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Cloud was generally a giant lame-o, despite being hyper competent (like seriously, other than the Black Materia cray-cray, Cloud gets shit done), liked, and respected by generally everyone around him. But he was still super corny despite this.

Dorky doesn't have to mean 'socially awkward'. It just means corny.

I think that's what everyone (in real life) liked about him.
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Old 02/10/2018   #10
Octo
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Doesnt some guy in wall market call him an 'unpopular dweeb'?
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Old 02/10/2018   #11
Cat Rage Room
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He does, but you can be liked/respected and an unpopular dweeb at the same time.

It's weird, I know, but it's definitely possible.
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Old 02/10/2018   #12
Addy Carver
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Cat Rage Room wrote: He does, but you can be liked/respected and an unpopular dweeb at the same time.

It's weird, I know, but it's definitely possible.
*raises hand*

I like that Cid's assertions are being quoted here, what with him taking leadership of the party whilst Cloud is a dribbling wreck and being a pretty inspiring leader at that. I got the impression he knew Cloud had the potential to be the badass that Biggs, Wedge and Jessie saw but kept fucking up with both words and actions, then having the determination to put things as right as he could.
I probably would've gone with 'bit of a twat' over dorky but eh, semantics.
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Old 02/10/2018   #13
ChipNoir
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To this day I still don't understand that weird circling hand motion he did when showing off to Avalanche on the train.
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Old 02/10/2018   #14
Addy Carver
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We joked he was going to do Rimmer's salute from Red Dwarf. Now THAT is dorky shit!
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Old 02/10/2018   #15
Theozilla
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Just some thoughts I had on Cloud's personality a couple of days ago when the "dorky" comment first surfaced:
It’s interesting that perceptions of Cloud’s personality can differ so greatly for a variety or reasons (beyond personal subjectivity): e.g. the differences between more literal/accurate translations of the Japanese OG script and the flawed but memorable English localization, the limited graphical fidelity/detail the blocky models of the OG (plus no voice acting) allowing a greater individual freedom in terms of projection/interpretation of nuances to his character, but also the twist to his character narrative itself is another major factor I think, as more than half the game Cloud is attempting to project a partially false persona, so depending of which parts of the game were most memorable for individual players, his false persona is what people remember and associate with his character more than his end-game personality.
Like when talking about being more accurate to Cloud's "authentic"/original personality besides the personal subjectivity involved in it, it's also important to specify the when and what state Cloud is in the narrative.
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