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Final Fantasy VII All events from the 1997 classic RPG, with which it all began.

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Old 08/28/2017   #1
lentils on lent
Default Trying to understand the architecure of Wall Market

When you climb the "golden wire of hope" you are able to see the wreckage of Sector 7. You also climb through a bunch of wreckage going up to the upper plate, but this in Sector 6. Is all the wreckage you climb on created by the nearby collapse of Sector 7, or was it like that before? The model of Midgar in the Shinra building has a piece of the upper plate missing from one of the sectors. Is this supposed to be sector 6? Is that why Cloud and the others can pass through the upper plate, because there's a giant crack in it?
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Old 08/28/2017   #2
JBedford
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The cracked plate in the Shinra Building is Sector 6. The Sector 6 plate was never completed.

The plates have gaps between them, so they may have just climbed the gap between the Sector 6 and Sector 7 plates rather than in its center. The rubble is likely meant to have come from Sector 7 given the destroyed trains and tracks and stuff.

Although maybe the idea was climbing through/between the incomplete plate which is perhaps the reason that the incomplete plate is part of the story, and why the incomplete plate was the one for Sector 6. The rubble is definitely caused by platefall though. It's what causes the shiny golden wire of hope to appear.

Last edited by JBedford; 08/28/2017 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 08/28/2017   #3
LicoriceAllsorts
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I know what you mean. You come into Wall Market via the bottom of the screen, having passed through a screen that leads roughly left to right; then from the area of the Don's mansion you exit right and come to the shiny wire of hope that appears to be facing right? Or is it 90 degrees counterclockwise? Can't remember. Anyway, this set up makes it look as if Wall Market is between sector 6 and sector 7, which doesn't make any sense, so either they are very close to the central pillar (because the ruins of 7 would be visible from every sector at the epicentre of the circle) or the designers took some visual poetic licence to drive the horror home.
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Old 08/28/2017   #4
ForceStealer
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Despite walking to the right, I did always imagine the Wire of Hope was along the same wall that Corneo's mansion sits against. And I did always assume that it was close to the center, since they basically arrive at the foot of the Shinra building after climbing the wire.

More confusing to me is the Train Graveyard. Is it in Sector 7 or 6? It's RIGHT next to the Sector 7 train station, but the entrance to the train station (from the map with the Pillar) is directly above the path that that takes you to the large Sector 6 gate. Now, of course, there's no telling how much movement takes place between screen transistions. But that one always did seem a little wonky.

At least, I feel like the the entrances to Sector 6 and the Sector 7 should be swapped on the Pillar map.
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Old 08/28/2017   #5
ChipNoir
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The gates aren't that high, so no matter where you climbed it, you would eventually see the wreckage of Sector 7. Given they come out out onto a solid surface that has no buildings around it, I'm inclined to say you come out on sector 6, and find an opening in the ring that circles around it.



But I've said on a number of occasions that Midgar is a poorly defined city. Most of it is literally copy-pasted, such as the fact that each sector has what appears to be the exact same turreted bulding and smoke stack combination towards the edge.

I just started playing Silent Hill, and the size of each of the sectors feels roughly the size of the entire town there, if anyone wants a sense of scale. It's big, but maaaaybe not as big as what many people have imagined the city to be. So Wallmarket combined with the broken highway leading to it could probably take up the same size as Sector 6 itself. It's difficult to tell because Square so clearly didn't have continuity in mind.

Combine that with how indistinct all the areas look, and its kinda clear Square just wanted a concept, rather than a fully functional city. I'm very curious how much of the teaser trailer is intended to actually be physical locations, as there's no way some of those locations fit into the structure of Midgar as we know it.

I will be VERY impressed if Square doesn't try to cheat the way it usually does with it's cities, by giving birds eye views for scale, but then keeping the camera heavily controlled so that you never quite know where you are in proximity to things.
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Old 08/28/2017   #6
JBedford
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Ramza Beoulve wrote: More confusing to me is the Train Graveyard. Is it in Sector 7 or 6? It's RIGHT next to the Sector 7 train station, but the entrance to the train station (from the map with the Pillar) is directly above the path that that takes you to the large Sector 6 gate. Now, of course, there's no telling how much movement takes place between screen transistions. But that one always did seem a little wonky.

At least, I feel like the the entrances to Sector 6 and the Sector 7 should be swapped on the Pillar map.
If you're facing toward the pillar/center, walking left will increase the sector number, walking right will decrease the sector number.

I imagine the Sector 7 slums we visit in the game is on the left side (closer to Sector 8) and the graveyard is on the opposite side of the pillar (closer to Sector 6). The path to Sector 6 then probably goes around the train graveyard. And the train graveyard probably borders the left side of the Wall Market.

Edit: Oh wait, you swing from the plate support through the Sector 6 gate. I wonder how that would fits in.

Last edited by JBedford; 08/28/2017 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 08/29/2017   #7
lentils on lent
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So you guys think the stuff you jump and climb on in this area is caused by the Sector 7 collapse or is it just your usual abandoned Midgar junk? I'm guessing it's regular junk since it looks kind of rusty and decayed.





Here we see the sector with the cracked upper plate. If you read the numbers on the reactors in the sister ray firing scene, it actually proves that the cracked section is supposed to be sector six. You can see the sunken Sector 7 plate next to it. My theory is that you climb up to Shinra HQ through this crack in the sector 6 plate. Now why is the crack there and why it has broken trains and other crazy stuff dangling from it is a question for fans' imagination to answer.

To this day I still have no idea what that flat outer ring around the city is supposed to be (the big fan blade things extending outward from the circle of reactors).
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Old 08/29/2017   #8
The Twilight Mexican
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The "fan blades" are probably the groundwork for a planned expansion -- or at least a once-considered expansion. Another sign of this is the incomplete highway that abruptly stops over Sector 5 (where Cloud and co. fight the Motorball boss) at the city perimeter.
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Old 08/29/2017   #9
ChipNoir
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The Twilight Mexican wrote: The "fan blades" are probably the groundwork for a planned expansion -- or at least a once-considered expansion. Another sign of this is the incomplete highway that abruptly stops over Sector 5 (where Cloud and co. fight the Motorball boss) at the city perimeter.
What's interesting is that HQ image of Midgar I linked to shows that the outerplates apparently have structures inside of them, as Sector 6 is open-aired, and seems to have structures of somesort that are brightly lit up.

They could also possibly be extensions of the reactors, and all the pipework that it takes to get the power from place place to place. The lights that seem to randomly be placed give the impression they're building lights, and the inside are occupied for some reason.
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Old 08/29/2017   #10
Minato
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ChipNoir wrote:
The Twilight Mexican wrote: The "fan blades" are probably the groundwork for a planned expansion -- or at least a once-considered expansion. Another sign of this is the incomplete highway that abruptly stops over Sector 5 (where Cloud and co. fight the Motorball boss) at the city perimeter.
What's interesting is that HQ image of Midgar I linked to shows that the outerplates apparently have structures inside of them, as Sector 6 is open-aired, and seems to have structures of somesort that are brightly lit up.

They could also possibly be extensions of the reactors, and all the pipework that it takes to get the power from place place to place. The lights that seem to randomly be placed give the impression they're building lights, and the inside are occupied for some reason.
I guess Before Crisis suggests there are helicopter platforms in there somewhere?
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Old 08/29/2017   #11
ForceStealer
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lentils on lent wrote: So you guys think the stuff you jump and climb on in this area is caused by the Sector 7 collapse or is it just your usual abandoned Midgar junk? I'm guessing it's regular junk since it looks kind of rusty and decayed.

Some of it, especially the propeller? seem to be general junk. But I did always get the impression that the dangling train tracks/train cars are a result of the collapse (were in the midst of passing through the 6 and 7 plates when it dropped)
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Old 08/31/2017   #12
lentils on lent
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Damn, would that mean the trains are full of dead people? Thinking that kind of takes the fun out of the scene.
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Old 09/27/2017   #13
Kieron_ODuibhir
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Kinda gotta be, don't they? :'D Dammit Reno.

My problem has always been that the sheer speed with which you can get from Sector to Sector (and yeah where the shiny wire of hope dumps you, and the spiral-down pattern of train map) suggests that all the slums we see are near the center of the undercity. On the other hand, you pop up outside the walls after going not that far toward the edge.

Midgar is not remotely to-scale. ^^ What I like is that the Respectable Suit Guy who freaks out about sharing the train with AVALANCHE apparently commutes up from the slums to work, because...Shinra doesn't pay its middle-managers that well I guess. Mayhe he has eight kids to feed.

Also Aerith's house. Wtf. Where is all the water from. Is that Midgar's sewer outflow? So many flowers growing. Respectable stand-alone non-shanty two-story dwelling. What does Elmyra do for a living, mob enforcer?!
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Old 09/27/2017   #14
ChipNoir
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Kieron_ODuibhir wrote: Kinda gotta be, don't they? :'D Dammit Reno.

My problem has always been that the sheer speed with which you can get from Sector to Sector (and yeah where the shiny wire of hope dumps you, and the spiral-down pattern of train map) suggests that all the slums we see are near the center of the undercity. On the other hand, you pop up outside the walls after going not that far toward the edge.

Midgar is not remotely to-scale. ^^ What I like is that the Respectable Suit Guy who freaks out about sharing the train with AVALANCHE apparently commutes up from the slums to work, because...Shinra doesn't pay its middle-managers that well I guess. Mayhe he has eight kids to feed.

Also Aerith's house. Wtf. Where is all the water from. Is that Midgar's sewer outflow? So many flowers growing. Respectable stand-alone non-shanty two-story dwelling. What does Elmyra do for a living, mob enforcer?!
I sometimes head canon that what the slums are now originally was whatever town used to exist before the plate was built. Why else build such an elegant church in a slum where most people live in hovels built out corrugated iron sheets?

Once the plate was built, whoever could afford to live up there did, and the people who couldn't have spent their time either trying to make their way up, like the business man, or are just stuck there with nowhere else to go.

With that said, we have no idea what the sectors on the other half of the city look like. For all we know, there might even now be a third level, people living INSIDE the plate. That'd be interesting, especially given the brief glimpse we have of the underside of the plate in the trailer.

I'm still vastly curious about how much of that teaser is actually intended to be in the final version, given how different that highway looks to the views of sector 8-5 we have.
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Old 09/27/2017   #15
Kieron_ODuibhir
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ChipNoir wrote: I sometimes head canon that what the slums are now originally was whatever town used to exist before the plate was built. Why else build such an elegant church in a slum where most people live in hovels built out corrugated iron sheets?
Yeah, agree, parts of the slums at least are totally holdovers from before the Great Metal Pizza. The Church has been abandoned a long time. But the Gainsborough house is still...so much space when most slum dwellings are small and crowded. So nicely appointed. There's a goddamn china cabinet.

If we assume the pretty water is in fact sewer outflow the smell of the place may help explain the shortage of neighbors, and possibly why Aerith doesn't sell the sunflowers, but still. No rubble. No visible damage. It's like Midgar didn't even happen.

What does Elmyra do for a living? She and Aerith had to eat in between when her husband died and when Aerith set up her flower business.
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