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Old 12/24/2013   #1
Lex
Default I think it's time for an Upgrade

Ohai folks,

some of us were having a chit chat about upgrading the forum software - this is the place to discuss it. We should probably stick with vBulletin but there's that pesky licence to pay for, so I'm more than willing to chip in for a bit of the cost.

Reasons to upgrade:

- less bugs
- less spam
- more features
- mobile support
- wordpress/ vbulletin integration (linking site frontend moar with foar rums)

The problem is that it ain't cheap, so everyone would have to chip in if possible. Come January 7th I can donate about £70, which is close to $100.

We'd be upgrading so the cost would either be $209 or $359 (that extra $150 is for mobile support). It seems a bit extravagant to go for mobile support but there are quite a lot of us who use mobile so I guess it's about how many people are willing to chip in. It'd be nice to have it at least. I'm happy to donate because I basically live here .

vBulletin is evil because you have to pay for it, but the free alternatives come with a lot less features and as far as I know we'd probably lose the entire archive of posts switching to completely different software.

Of course, with an upgrade and new features there would be the question of a redesign. I personally love the design of the forum and wouldn't want much to change but it's something that the entire memberbase needs to discuss/ make suggestions about, and it's a project that'll probably take up a great deal of the first half of next year, much the same way as the site front-end redesign took a year or so.

Of course, that above is all opinion and Yop can easily pop in and say "fuck off, no" but he mentioned an upgrade a while ago and a few people have mentioned that it would be a good idea.

I don't know much about the innards of the forum software but I'm going to learn over the break. Maybe our admins can give the mods a training course or something .

Anyway, very important, please discuss.
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Old 12/24/2013   #2
Ghost X
Default

I'll be happy to pitch in AUD$100, if the idea gets the go ahead.
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Old 12/24/2013   #3
Telcontar
Default

I want the mobile forum.

I'll chip in $50USD, minimum.
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Old 12/24/2013   #4
Lex
Default

Today's exchange rates with the 3 of us puts us at $255 already. And this thread has been alive for about 10 minutes. I'm sure the rest of the memberbase can put up some of the rest?

£70 = $116
$100 AUD - $89 USD
$50 USD
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Serving legendaries with mah Pokécrew.

Last edited by Lex; 12/24/2013 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 12/24/2013   #5
Literally Who?
Default






(SPOILER) and my money!
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Old 12/24/2013   #6
The Man
Default

I have absolutely no desire to upgrade to vBulletin 4. It's an utter nightmare to administer (for starters, the style manager is a piece of shit) and frankly a terrible piece of software. Maybe if they fix some of the problems with it for vB5 I'll be more enthused about upgrading then, but as far as I'm concerned "upgrading" would actually be a downgrade, despite the mobile skin.
__________________


You’re better off not dreaming of the things to come
Dreams are always ending far too soon









“When I was twelve, I milked my eel into a pot of turtle stew.
I flogged the one-eyed snake, I skinned my sausage, I made
the bald man cry into the turtle stew, which I do believe my
sister ate. At least, I hope she did.” -Tyrion Lannister
“The management is very bad. In fact, let’s not mince words: The management is terrible!
We’ve had a string of embezzlers, frauds, liars, and lunatics making a string of catastrophic
decisions. This is a plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who appointed these
people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you! While I’ll admit that
anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after
century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious
incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without
question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous
and unproven machines. You could have stopped them. All you had to say was, ‘No.’” -V
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” -Thomas Pynchon
“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” -Adam Smith
“Why throw money at problems? That's what money is for. Should the nation's wealth be redistributed? It has been and continues to be redistributed to a few people in a manner strikingly unhelpful.” -Kurt Vonnegut
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck
“If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.” -Mikhail Bakunin
“In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.” -Sun Tzu
“...pero Capitán, obedecer por obedecer, así, sin pensarlo... sólo lo hacen gentes como usted, Capitán.” -Dr Ferreiro, Pan’s Labyrinth
“If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is: infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” -William Blake
“Yeah, you really got my act down good, guys. That'll be great. ‘You know, when I’m done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched! That’s why I drink Orange Drink.’” -Bill Hicks








last.fm (note: album artwork may sometimes be nsfw) · Fool's Gold · FFOF · FF
the lifestream last.fm group · my old music · my new music · pm for myspace/facebook
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Old 12/24/2013   #7
Lex
Default

*vBulletin 5

And I'm pretty sure BFF uses it and it works fine. I could be completely wrong.
__________________


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Serving legendaries with mah Pokécrew.
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Old 12/24/2013   #8
The Man
Default

Well, like I said in the Skype chat, they are complete fucking morons and split the style manager so that you have to edit literally hundreds of pages to make a style look even halfway decent. Unless they fixed this in vB5 then we can basically say goodbye to all our skins because there's no way anyone can be bothered doing that much editing for that many skins. That isn't the only major problem with vB4 either.
__________________


You’re better off not dreaming of the things to come
Dreams are always ending far too soon









“When I was twelve, I milked my eel into a pot of turtle stew.
I flogged the one-eyed snake, I skinned my sausage, I made
the bald man cry into the turtle stew, which I do believe my
sister ate. At least, I hope she did.” -Tyrion Lannister
“The management is very bad. In fact, let’s not mince words: The management is terrible!
We’ve had a string of embezzlers, frauds, liars, and lunatics making a string of catastrophic
decisions. This is a plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who appointed these
people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you! While I’ll admit that
anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after
century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious
incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without
question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous
and unproven machines. You could have stopped them. All you had to say was, ‘No.’” -V
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” -Thomas Pynchon
“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” -Adam Smith
“Why throw money at problems? That's what money is for. Should the nation's wealth be redistributed? It has been and continues to be redistributed to a few people in a manner strikingly unhelpful.” -Kurt Vonnegut
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck
“If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.” -Mikhail Bakunin
“In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.” -Sun Tzu
“...pero Capitán, obedecer por obedecer, así, sin pensarlo... sólo lo hacen gentes como usted, Capitán.” -Dr Ferreiro, Pan’s Labyrinth
“If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is: infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” -William Blake
“Yeah, you really got my act down good, guys. That'll be great. ‘You know, when I’m done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched! That’s why I drink Orange Drink.’” -Bill Hicks








last.fm (note: album artwork may sometimes be nsfw) · Fool's Gold · FFOF · FF
the lifestream last.fm group · my old music · my new music · pm for myspace/facebook
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Old 12/24/2013   #9
The Man
Default

[01:26:04] Aaron: it might be worth installing a test version on some private server and seeing if the software is still a piece of shit and seeing how difficult it would be to make the forum look mostly like it does
[01:26:23] Alexander McKeever: I'm sure we could use fhtagn for that
[01:26:44] Aaron: because if we're going to install a new forum software and it turns out to make it practically impossible to look like the site then that's just a bad design choice to say the least
[01:27:12] Aaron: also i guess they may have released a release candidate of 5? or i'm not sure.
[01:27:23] Aaron: i'm trying to find people talking about 5's style manager and can't come up with much yet
[01:27:33] Alexander McKeever: OK this is all good
[01:27:43] Alexander McKeever: do me a favour and write all of that in the thread
[01:27:52] Aaron: right
__________________


You’re better off not dreaming of the things to come
Dreams are always ending far too soon









“When I was twelve, I milked my eel into a pot of turtle stew.
I flogged the one-eyed snake, I skinned my sausage, I made
the bald man cry into the turtle stew, which I do believe my
sister ate. At least, I hope she did.” -Tyrion Lannister
“The management is very bad. In fact, let’s not mince words: The management is terrible!
We’ve had a string of embezzlers, frauds, liars, and lunatics making a string of catastrophic
decisions. This is a plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who appointed these
people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you! While I’ll admit that
anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after
century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious
incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without
question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous
and unproven machines. You could have stopped them. All you had to say was, ‘No.’” -V
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” -Thomas Pynchon
“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” -Adam Smith
“Why throw money at problems? That's what money is for. Should the nation's wealth be redistributed? It has been and continues to be redistributed to a few people in a manner strikingly unhelpful.” -Kurt Vonnegut
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck
“If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.” -Mikhail Bakunin
“In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.” -Sun Tzu
“...pero Capitán, obedecer por obedecer, así, sin pensarlo... sólo lo hacen gentes como usted, Capitán.” -Dr Ferreiro, Pan’s Labyrinth
“If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is: infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” -William Blake
“Yeah, you really got my act down good, guys. That'll be great. ‘You know, when I’m done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched! That’s why I drink Orange Drink.’” -Bill Hicks








last.fm (note: album artwork may sometimes be nsfw) · Fool's Gold · FFOF · FF
the lifestream last.fm group · my old music · my new music · pm for myspace/facebook
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
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The Twilight Mexican (12/24/2013)
Old 12/24/2013   #10
Farron
Default

Gabriel wrote:



I'll try and pitch in, though after xmas season it might be hard.
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Old 12/24/2013   #11
Lex
Default

Pahaha Aaron, u funneh.

Yes anyway, test version to see how it is. According to Aaron the style editor was terrible in vBulletin 4. Now it's at 4.2 (which BFF uses fine and looks good in btw) or 5. The licence comes with 4.2 and 5, so if 5 is crap we can stick with 4.2 etc you see where I'm going with this.

Frankly, I am happy to learn how to apply these styles myself and manually sit through the tedium of applying every single thing, no matter how long it takes - if it means we finally have proper mobile support for the forum. I honestly do not care. I once spent a solid week sifting through pages I'd written on this site changing minute details in CSS and HTML to fuck with how tables appeared in my articles. If I learn how to do this, I will get it done.

Lets organise a test server thing at some point so we can fiddle with a cracked version or something.
__________________


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Serving legendaries with mah Pokécrew.
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Old 12/24/2013   #12
The Man
Default

If I don't have to deal with upgrading the styles personally then that will remove one of my major objections (though it'll be a really complicated process to make all the custom font styling and other matters work again). We'll still need to find replacements for all the hacks we installed though, and that doesn't get rid of the fact that some of the features they took out of vB4 irk me (for instance, there is now no way to look at a thread without removing it from your new posts list).
__________________


You’re better off not dreaming of the things to come
Dreams are always ending far too soon









“When I was twelve, I milked my eel into a pot of turtle stew.
I flogged the one-eyed snake, I skinned my sausage, I made
the bald man cry into the turtle stew, which I do believe my
sister ate. At least, I hope she did.” -Tyrion Lannister
“The management is very bad. In fact, let’s not mince words: The management is terrible!
We’ve had a string of embezzlers, frauds, liars, and lunatics making a string of catastrophic
decisions. This is a plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who appointed these
people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you! While I’ll admit that
anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after
century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious
incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without
question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous
and unproven machines. You could have stopped them. All you had to say was, ‘No.’” -V
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” -Thomas Pynchon
“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” -Adam Smith
“Why throw money at problems? That's what money is for. Should the nation's wealth be redistributed? It has been and continues to be redistributed to a few people in a manner strikingly unhelpful.” -Kurt Vonnegut
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck
“If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.” -Mikhail Bakunin
“In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.” -Sun Tzu
“...pero Capitán, obedecer por obedecer, así, sin pensarlo... sólo lo hacen gentes como usted, Capitán.” -Dr Ferreiro, Pan’s Labyrinth
“If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is: infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” -William Blake
“Yeah, you really got my act down good, guys. That'll be great. ‘You know, when I’m done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched! That’s why I drink Orange Drink.’” -Bill Hicks








last.fm (note: album artwork may sometimes be nsfw) · Fool's Gold · FFOF · FF
the lifestream last.fm group · my old music · my new music · pm for myspace/facebook
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/24/2013   #13
Lex
Default

^No way to what? I do that fine on BFF :/
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Old 12/24/2013   #14
The Man
Default

Maybe they put it back in 4.2 then, or maybe BFF just uses the alternate method of tracking new posts (if it calculates new posts based on last login rather than whether you've viewed the threads, then it wouldn't matter).

edit: eyesonff uses 4.2.2 and still doesn't let me view threads without removing them from the new posts list so I'm pretty sure BFF just uses the alternate new posts method
__________________


You’re better off not dreaming of the things to come
Dreams are always ending far too soon









“When I was twelve, I milked my eel into a pot of turtle stew.
I flogged the one-eyed snake, I skinned my sausage, I made
the bald man cry into the turtle stew, which I do believe my
sister ate. At least, I hope she did.” -Tyrion Lannister
“The management is very bad. In fact, let’s not mince words: The management is terrible!
We’ve had a string of embezzlers, frauds, liars, and lunatics making a string of catastrophic
decisions. This is a plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who appointed these
people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you! While I’ll admit that
anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after
century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious
incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without
question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous
and unproven machines. You could have stopped them. All you had to say was, ‘No.’” -V
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” -Thomas Pynchon
“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” -Adam Smith
“Why throw money at problems? That's what money is for. Should the nation's wealth be redistributed? It has been and continues to be redistributed to a few people in a manner strikingly unhelpful.” -Kurt Vonnegut
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck
“If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.” -Mikhail Bakunin
“In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.” -Sun Tzu
“...pero Capitán, obedecer por obedecer, así, sin pensarlo... sólo lo hacen gentes como usted, Capitán.” -Dr Ferreiro, Pan’s Labyrinth
“If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is: infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” -William Blake
“Yeah, you really got my act down good, guys. That'll be great. ‘You know, when I’m done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched! That’s why I drink Orange Drink.’” -Bill Hicks








last.fm (note: album artwork may sometimes be nsfw) · Fool's Gold · FFOF · FF
the lifestream last.fm group · my old music · my new music · pm for myspace/facebook
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/24/2013   #15
Lex
Default

Break the statement down for me Aaron, I genuinely don't get it - what do you mean by "removing it from new posts list", what are you actually referring to there?

It could be right down to the way I browse the forums. I click new posts. All the posts I haven't read come up. I read them all. I click new posts again to do the same thing. I do the exact same thing on BFF?
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Serving legendaries with mah Pokécrew.
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