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Old 08/16/2017   #16
Lex
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There were a variety of opinions about it being a sort of rage-post that was then retracted and deleted. I think that the difference between that incident and this one is that there's reasonable claims of "crime of passion" vs. "premeditated crime" type viewpoints when discussing it between staff, whereas the second case is very much cut-and-dry within the "premeditated" category (which makes for an easy permaban).
I don't disagree with this point but I just want to say I think the differences in opinion on how that was handled were the differing camps of people who recognised it as dangerous behaviour/ a warning sign and people who saw a temporary lapse in judgement. I saw the former and others saw the latter, which I completely understand. I will reiterate that I didn't have anything personally against JT (I was after all the person who lobbied for him to become a staff member in the face of opposition from another staff member at the time) but I will protect TLS's reputation like a lioness does her cubs
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Old 08/16/2017   #17
X-SOLDIER
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Shub Niggurath wrote:
X wrote: I think that the difference between that incident and this one is that there's reasonable claims of "crime of passion" vs. "premeditated crime" type viewpoints when discussing it between staff, whereas the second case is very much cut-and-dry within the "premeditated" category (which makes for an easy permaban).
I vehemently disagree - he took the time to create a new thread, posted a picture of the woman concerned and some spiel. That's as premeditated as the threads that followed. The worst thing about the initial post was that he was a third-party to the scenario which prompted it and still did it.
I've been on the receiving end of similar shit and there is no way in hell you can justify that sort of warped thinking. I had an inbox full of abuse and that is what he wanted to do to that woman. That is not on, and using this forum as a platform to rouse a lynch mob is not acceptable. At the very least he owed Yop and staff an apology for misusing the site and didn't even have the grace to do that.
I fully agree with you here, Mage.

In case it's wasn't clear, I'm not attempting to be apologetic for how we handled things before. Not in the least. That was just an attempt to sort of explain where I feel that the viewpoints were coming from that caused the uneven execution, as well as to point out the series of events as they DID transpire, not as they SHOULD'VE – again, another reason that we felt it was of utmost importance to be open about this, and exactly how it WAS handled, step-by-step.

That's also why I wanted to phrase it that way, because the end result is that whether it's a "crime of passion" vs. "premeditated crime" – your ass is still going to permaban jail for it just the same, because we're officially not gonna split hairs over that bullshit anymore.




X
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Old 08/16/2017   #18
Octo
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Joe wrote:
If anybody here feels the need to use this sort of language toward anybody here on the forum I'd like to suggest the following: Instead of typing it out, write it on a little piece of paper. Fold that paper up, bend over, and push it right up your butthole. Let it rest there until you mature a little.
This also works for love letters
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Old 08/16/2017   #19
Shademp
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JT's actions are unforgivable and I support the staff's decision to permanently ban him.

Just as with any individual who has failed the test of decency I hope they will see the consequences of their actions and eventually reform into a better person. But whatever challenges lay ahead of him are no longer our concern.
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Old 08/16/2017   #20
Addy Carver
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IDK man, the 'death to TLS' comment didn't exactly sound promising.
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Old 08/16/2017   #21
Omega
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X-SOLDIER wrote: Thanks for being candid. The initial situation was definitely not as well-handled as we'd've wanted it to be for a variety of reasons that many folks have particular feelings towards or against to one degree or another. (I only saw said thread after I think the third edit was made to it because of when I was online). I don't think that anyone would argue your point here. The tl;dr is that the initial situation wasn't dealt with smoothly by staff as a cohesive whole.

There were a variety of opinions about it being a sort of rage-post that was then retracted and deleted. I think that the difference between that incident and this one is that there's reasonable claims of "crime of passion" vs. "premeditated crime" type viewpoints when discussing it between staff, whereas the second case is very much cut-and-dry within the "premeditated" category (which makes for an easy permaban).
I'll be more candid. I have no problem with what Lex did originally. I say this as someone who feels that someone making a "momentary lapse in judgment" on the level of "you know what, I should rouse the posse on TLS and have ourselves a lynch party" has no excuse. There is no defense for this. I feel the appropriate response was taken initially - show the community what's happening, and then PULL THE TRIGGER and have done. The lack of followup is what bothers me. Your use of the word "cohesive" (and the next paragraph) seems to say there was probably some disagreement on the way to handle it in staff, and I guess all I can say here is this: put yourself in the shoes of the people he targeted with this (whether forum members like Tetsujin or Tennyo who just told the guy to chill and got an insulting, angry retort in response, or the Cheater Who Must Be Doxxed, or the person cheated on, who likely wouldn't want their private business out in public - which is a very real issue for people here). Why would the immediate response not be to say, "you know what, no, gtfo"?
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Old 08/16/2017   #22
Cthulhu
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I was in the "moment of passion" camp myself when he posted the gang hate thing; I was fully in agreement that his position was forfeit, but I was going to leave it at that. It was still uncharacteristic of him, as is this thing, but then, maybe I just didn't know him. I've been on the internets long enough to not be surprised with personality shifts like that TBF.

I guess even apparent sexually liberated, left-wing ex-mormon liberals can turn violently mysogynistic homophobes (but cowardly, hence the cipher) in a very short amount of time with little provocation. I'm pretty sure he'll try and apologise and claim spur of the moment, medication, personal situation etc, but I'm not having it - he's spent probably over half an hour writing the message, finding a cipher font, shooping that thing together, etc. That's premeditated and intentional, and TBF even if he was high off his tits with whatever he's on, I still don't want him around here if he turns like that while inebriated.

I mean most people turn funnily incoherent when drunk.
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Old 08/16/2017   #23
ChipNoir
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Good lord, those comments are worrying. People who can hold such animosity while pretending to smile and still be a part of the very community they seem to hate give me the willies. I'm glad to see him gone. I came here to avoid that kind of trashy behavior in Gamefaqs.
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Old 08/16/2017   #24
Omega
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Cthulhu wrote: I mean most people turn funnily incoherent when drunk.
yop-senpai noticed me

blush
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Old 08/16/2017   #25
X-SOLDIER
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Chop Chop Master Onion wrote: I'll be more candid. I have no problem with what Lex did originally. I say this as someone who feels that someone making a "momentary lapse in judgment" on the level of "you know what, I should rouse the posse on TLS and have ourselves a lynch party" has no excuse. There is no defense for this. I feel the appropriate response was taken initially - show the community what's happening, and then PULL THE TRIGGER and have done. The lack of followup is what bothers me. Your use of the word "cohesive" (and the next paragraph) seems to say there was probably some disagreement on the way to handle it in staff, and I guess all I can say here is this: put yourself in the shoes of the people he targeted with this (whether forum members like Tetsujin or Tennyo who just told the guy to chill and got an insulting, angry retort in response, or the Cheater Who Must Be Doxxed, or the person cheated on, who likely wouldn't want their private business out in public - which is a very real issue for people here). Why would the immediate response not be to say, "you know what, no, gtfo"?
I'm sure there'll be some specific comments from staff on this (EDIT: like Yop just made), but the main point I wanted to make here was that we're openly acknowledging that it wasn't handled well, and that under all circumstances going forward, this was the flat-out policy:

X-SOLDIER wrote: Since we don't want that sort of uneven handling of things in the future, I'll just be outright with it:

If anyone posts some heinously inappropriate bannable-worthy shit, but then feels like an asshole for doing so & deletes it – YOU'RE STILL GETTING BANNED FOR IT.

Think before you post. There isn't an excuse for your shitty behaviour. You're responsible for the consequences of anything that you do the moment that you hit post/send. This goes for the Forums as well as the Discord.
...so that we won't have to deal with that sort of uneven handling of shit again, because it's not acceptable to not be able to expect that from us as staff.




X
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Old 08/16/2017   #26
Cthulhu
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Chop Chop Master Onion wrote:
Cthulhu wrote: I mean most people turn funnily incoherent when drunk.
yop-senpai noticed me

blush
I... it's not like I try to understand your drunk attempts at poasting or anything, b... baka!
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Old 08/16/2017   #27
LicoriceAllsorts
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Thank you for being so transparent. It helps avoid misunderstanding. I am shocked and appalled to find that JT held such opinions. As Chip pointed out, it seems now he was pretending to be one thing when really he was something else all along. I'm particularly upset because I brought him into this community. I know his actions are not my responsibility, but I still want to apologise.
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Old 08/16/2017   #28
Chloe Frazer
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Chop Chop Master Onion wrote:
Cthulhu wrote: I mean most people turn funnily incoherent when drunk.
yop-senpai noticed me

blush
Cthulhu wrote: I... it's not like I try to understand your drunk attempts at poasting or anything, b... baka!
My shipping senses are tingling.


The irony here is that he's behaving like the people he hates so much. The premeditation that he had to go through to do this is beyond disturbing.
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Old 08/16/2017   #29
Octo
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I honestly don't think this was an 'all along' type deal. He let his cunty side out. He shouldn't have fucking done it, I'm not gonna make any excuses for that and I agree 100% with the ban.
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Old 08/16/2017   #30
Lex
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LicoriceAllsorts wrote: Thank you for being so transparent. It helps avoid misunderstanding. I am shocked and appalled to find that JT held such opinions. As Chip pointed out, it seems now he was pretending to be one thing when really he was something else all along. I'm particularly upset because I brought him into this community. I know his actions are not my responsibility, but I still want to apologise.
I almost can't believe I'm about to type this but I would feel icky if I didn't - I'm not convinced he actually held these opinions, I think he was feeling incredibly frustrated and doing what he did allowed him to express hate in the most passive aggressive way possible, a "fuck you" hiding in plain sight. I mean, some small part of him must have thought and felt these things for at least a moment or he'd never have written them, but I think at its core he just vented the most hateful things he could to get his rage out.

I'm not even convinced he was stupid enough to believe nobody would figure it out. He likely expected it to be seen, though perhaps not so quickly. Potentially he would have changed it when recent events settled in his mind and he was in a better emotional state, we'll never know and it doesn't matter.

His actions are indefensible and I'm not defending him (obviously) or trying to soften what he did, I just thought it was important to point that out because I believe that to be the case. Given what he said about me I probably shouldn't bother taking the time

EDIT: Lmao ninja'd by Octo making the same point
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