The Lifestream Home The Lifestream Forums The Lifestream Shop Donate to The Lifestream
The Lifestream

ARCHIVED FORUMS

Hello. You are currently viewing the old vBulletin forums, which are now in readonly archive mode.
Please go to https://thelifestream.net/forums to go to the current forums.


Go Back   The Lifestream Forums > Site, Forums, Staff & Projects > Feedback, Suggestions & Questions

Feedback, Suggestions & Questions Need help or have suggestions for TLS? Post here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12/22/2015   #1
Cabaret
Default Regarding lifetime bans, specifically L

I'm not sure where to bring this up, so if there is a more appropriate place, or it's better as a 121, please move it.

I'd like to make a case for L and possibly anyone else on a lifetime ban who wants to come back.

The guy has made mistakes in the past, there is no denying that, but neither is his obvious desire to come back to TLS. Given his behaviour on recent returns did not include any knobish behaviour and given that he has a lot of friends on this site and given that we are all adults and change, mellow, become better people over time - is it not time to review the lifetime ban?

May I suggest a 1, 3 or 5 year ban instead and then a probation period where if anyone complains about the person during their first 3 months back then they are out? Or that if the person is known to staff action be taken within sensible parameters?

There are indeed those who want to return to cause trouble, Username no doubt and those which should have a restraining order on them, no need to name who there - I'm not advocating for them, they are assholes and obviously just want to cause trouble.

But if someone genuinely wants to reconnect with old online mates, and in L's case, can only do so under a dupe account, continuously banning him seems a bit petty nowadays. I could understand if we were all teens, and needed a firm hand but we're not and so imo should rework how this forum is run to reflect that. We're all getting old and some of us are even getting wise, we should adapt. And besides, the guy just wants to talk tattoos, babies and graphics, not bring down the fabric of our community.

Unless I'm missing some ban-worthy crime L committed recently apart from having a dupe account?
__________________
See you Space Cowboy.
Cabaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 5:
Addy Carver (01/05/2016), Cthulhu (12/23/2015), Joe (12/22/2015), Kermitu Kleric Katie (02/11/2016), LicoriceAllsorts (12/22/2015)
Old 12/22/2015   #2
LicoriceAllsorts
Default

FWIW, I am not opposed to this. But I should probably qualify that by saying I don't remember personally having any interactions with L, so it wasn't me he offended.
__________________



<img src=http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx25/licoriceallsorts/smallerfiftyshadesofTseng-1.jpg border=0 alt= />

FIFTY SHADES OF TSENG

Last edited by LicoriceAllsorts; 12/23/2015 at 12:00 AM.
LicoriceAllsorts is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Cabaret (12/23/2015)
Old 12/22/2015   #3
Joe
Default

I'll probably type up a concise response to this thread tomorrow but I pretty much agree with everything Cab is saying. We're all maturing and that should reflect in how this place is run. Past mishaps and drama doesn't need to dragged out across a lifetime, especially as we're mostly all here to connect with our friends and talk about the things we like.
__________________

Reject common sense to make the impossible possible!

Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 2:
Cabaret (12/23/2015), LicoriceAllsorts (12/23/2015)
Old 12/22/2015   #4
Octo
Default

Personally, if he had said he wanted to come back and apologised for his past actions to begin with I wouldn't have had a problem allowing him back -provided there were no repeat incidents. But I say this as someone who hasn't been on the receiving end of his behaviour, and tbh it's not something I would expect people to forgive easily.

But the fact that he created a dupe and seemingly had no intention of apologising doesn't bode well.
Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 5:
Cabaret (12/23/2015), Dawnbreaker (12/23/2015), Lex (12/23/2015), LicoriceAllsorts (12/23/2015), The Pyro (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #5
Cabaret
Default

I think the dupe account was more the only way he could come back in rather than an unwillingness to apologise. AFAIK there really is no other way a banned person could come back. I think if a dialogue is opened with him and this is explained to him, he'd have a very mature response and probably would apologise - though I can't say that for sure obviously.

I think he should be given a change to apologise if that's what his coming back hinges on, I guess it's all about communication and how we best go about it within the confines of this platform.
__________________
See you Space Cowboy.
Cabaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Joe (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #6
Octo
Default

What I mean was, if he'd made a dupe account and first thread came clean and apologised I'd be willing to give him a chance (bearing in mind it's not for me to forgive) or else he could have contacted us through email, or people he was speaking to on facebook or something.
Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 7:
Cabaret (12/23/2015), Kermitu Kleric Katie (02/11/2016), Lex (12/23/2015), Literally Who? (12/23/2015), Mr. Ite (12/23/2015), The Pyro (12/23/2015), The Twilight Mexican (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #7
Jason Tandro
Default

Having no experience with L, I can't speak personally. My general view has been this:

I'm in favor of forgiving- but not forgetting.

I agree with Octo that an apology for any prior action would probably be a good way to start, though I think actions speak louder than words. And to play devil's advocate, sometimes it's better just to not bring it up and to try and start fresh. Sometimes, especially in the always on world of the internet, apologizing for past misdeeds (apart from more often than not being skeptically viewed) can bring about memories which people would rather forget and move on.

I'd be in favor of amending ban terms on the basis of merit, not on whether a person said the right things at one point. And I will say this- aren't there other methods of communicating with certain people (Facebook comes to mind). Creating a dupe account and not identifying themselves immediately is questionable.

I realize I sound indecisive, just trying to muddle through both sides of the argument.
Jason Tandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 2:
Cabaret (12/23/2015), LicoriceAllsorts (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #8
Channy
Default

He'll take one look at my name here and remind everyone why he's banned.

Octo wrote: Personally, if he had said he wanted to come back and apologised for his past actions to begin with I wouldn't have had a problem allowing him back -provided there were no repeat incidents. But I say this as someone who hasn't been on the receiving end of his behaviour, and tbh it's not something I would expect people to forgive easily.

But the fact that he created a dupe and seemingly had no intention of apologising doesn't bode well.
I've been on the receiving end of his behavior for 3 years? Before I left this side of the interwebs. I'm not exactly how it all began but we've always had tension, and I'm pretty sure that mostly had something to do with the company we kept. But if people want him back and miss him, who am I to question it. I mean, that speaks to him being a good person somewhere.
__________________

So, why do you come here?
Same as you, I think. I've been here a lot...
You must have a lot going on your mind, I suppose.
Yeah, but I'd rather have nothing for a change. How do you do it?
Well, it comes with practice. I can think of nothing.
I do not feel the need to occupy my mind with nonsense, just to avoid thinking about what really matters.

Channy is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 2:
Lex (12/23/2015), Literally Who? (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #9
Ghost X
Default

though I think actions speak louder than words.
Isn't apologising an action? . It may also be words, but it is also an important action. Part of the maturation and reconciliation process is recognising past wrongs. How would you feel if someone you had issues with in the past entered your life as if nothing had happened, and not only that, were then also told to "deal with it" by the community? . That would rile me up something chronic.
__________________
Winner is me!
2018

2017 1st Runner-Up -- Member You'd Most Want to Meet.

2017 1st Runner-Up -- Best Voice.

2017 2nd Place Winner -- Most Likely To Back Out Of A Fight But Remain... Victorious.
Ghost X is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 4:
Kermitu Kleric Katie (02/11/2016), Lex (12/23/2015), Literally Who? (12/23/2015), The Twilight Mexican (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #10
Jason Tandro
Default

Ghost X wrote:
though I think actions speak louder than words.
Isn't apologising an action?
[/quote]

The "action" of typing "i'm sorry" requires the effort to hit 7 letters on a keyboard. I don't care if somebody says they are sorry, I care that people show that they are sorry.

That said, and as I've said initially, it's a good starting point, but it wouldn't be enough by itself. There were many trolls I've seen on the old forums I was in that would apologize and literally two posts later start in with their old shit again. [/QUOTE]
Jason Tandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/23/2015   #11
Lex
Default

Full disclosure time:

L and I do not have a good history. We don't have an absolutely terrible history like some other people on the board do with him, but it's not a good one. I'm not going to go into specifics - there are old threads for that, but those threads are old and that is fairly important. For all I know he's changed. At this point I have moved far beyond his previous comments, and I said as much in staff when we were discussing this new account.

The important point to take home here is that I decided to take a back seat with this decision because I felt I would be biased, so I didn't "cast a vote", and neither did Yop. I gave my input in as much as I have said in the previous paragraph and then said "I'm taking nothing else to do with this".

I literally don't care and have no ill will towards the guy, but there might be a perception that I do because he tried to come back early last year and I essentially voted no with the rest of staff then. The real problem is that there are people with whom he crossed a line that goes beyond simple trolling or rude behaviour, and those people are still here. Those again are not my details to go into. Additionally, it was generally accepted by everyone (even his friends) that over his nigh-on ten years on both ACF and TLS he had one of the worst records of anyone who ever came through TLS for offending people for his own lulz and generally just breaking the rules for the sake of breaking the rules. Older members will tell you this.

On the flip side of the coin, the people he saw fit to not be horrible to have been telling me for years that it was all just trolling and it's cool because he's open and honest about being a troll and it's all for lulz, everyone that can't handle is should get off the internet and also he's a really cool guy. I accept that he must be a cool, personable guy because I like these people and I value their opinions, but mostly because we're both Scottish XD.

But as I say, there are other people who had a far worse experience with L that really does go beyond simple trolling who... this isn't a "let go of your grudges" type situation. It's not that simple. It's not "he was horrible to me", it's "he tried to ruin my life" - and as we've established in the past, what is one groups lulz is another's fear and victimisation.

Meaningful one-on-one dialogue must be opened between L and the people he made feel victimised along with a promise that he won't go down that road again for there to ever be any hope of him returning. I'd like to see that happen because I feel like I'm missing out on something considering half my friends on TLS talk to him to this day, but the onus is on L to do so.

Something else to point out is that we have suspensions and we have used them before, and you can set any time on those. This was a permaban, and we only have three of those to my knowledge (of notable members). Username, Vendel and L. Is it fair to the other two to let him back just because he has friends here and they don't? Considering L's history of rulebreaking goes way beyond Username's, is comparable to Vendel's and the only reason he was allowed to continue for so long is because he had so many friends here in the first place? Also, circumventing any ban normally extends the life of the ban.

Most importantly: is it fair to the people he worked hard to make feel victimised? Because I'm more concerned about their comfort posting than I am about whether or not L has changed. This is why I've said this shit needs to be sorted between the people involved before the possibility comes up.

The old L would read this post, write "tl;dr you whiny annoying cunt" (actual stuff he said to me numerous times before). To him and his friend's that's "just L" and "well it might be true lol", but to me that's not funny. To them me not finding treatment of members like that being funny was perceived by them as "get off the internet, you're too fucking sensitive you fucking pansy". This was acceptable back then because he was in with a big group from ACF and to be frank the way staff dealt with everything was a fucking shitshow. The board culture (thank god) has completely changed since then and has become more fair. I don't think there's a new member here who can say they've seen someone speak to someone else like that and not get immediately banned, and I'm so glad for that. Because now people don't have to feel like shit when they just want to post about FFVII anymore.

L if you're reading this and you wouldn't write that (whether or not that's what you actually think being irrelevant), then cool. If you'd still write it, what's the point of coming back just to get banned again? And I mean actually coming back with the blessing of the people here, not creating a dupe to fly under the radar but let everyone you used to be friends with know it's really you.

Disregarding all of this shit, I've heard some of your life developments through the grapevine and I hope you and your family are doing well <3.
__________________


Especially for me, by the awesome GLD!
Serving legendaries with mah Pokécrew.

Last edited by Lex; 12/23/2015 at 04:15 AM.
Lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 14:
Airling (12/23/2015), Alex Strife (12/23/2015), Ami (12/23/2015), Channy (12/23/2015), Cthulhu (12/23/2015), Dawnbreaker (12/23/2015), Fangu (12/23/2015), Flare (12/23/2015), Hisako (12/23/2015), Kermitu Kleric Katie (02/11/2016), Minato (12/23/2015), Splintered (12/23/2015), The Pyro (12/23/2015), The Twilight Mexican (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #12
Ryushikaze
Default

Before his departure and ban from the boards, L was one of our most troublesome members. The very first infraction was handed out to him. He has, unless something has changed recently, the highest number of infractions and infraction points. Maybe Vendel had more. Both were notorious for flaming other members. He has a very very long history of causing trouble and not holding his tongue.

Speaking as someone on the receiving end of L's wrath, it was not pleasant. He said a lot of seriously libelous shit, and a simple one sentence apology is not going to counteract years of hurled abuse.

Speaking as a mod, this also isn't the first time we've looked at and considered his ban. We did so just last year. The general thurst of that discussion was to wonder if L could stop himself from starting trouble again. The consensus was that he could not.

If L wants to come back to the board, he's going to need to start making up for his history, and making things right with a lot of people. And he needs to do it without trying to get around his existing ban. I know that's going to be hard, but evading a ban of any length has always been a punishable offense. To end this on a lighter note, you know why Username got banned?

He got a 1 week ban for flaming. He tried to come back before it was up.
Then he tried to come back before THAT was up. Etc. etc. etc. When he'd logged a few years worth of ban time, we finally pulled the plug.
__________________
Advent Fanboys: Fear the fanboys. Then laugh at them. - A Naked Tifa Production
Now this is a compilation entry I want to see.
Ryushikaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 5:
Channy (12/23/2015), Cthulhu (12/23/2015), Jason Tandro (12/23/2015), Kermitu Kleric Katie (02/11/2016), The Pyro (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #13
The Twilight Mexican
Default

Speaking as someone who never had any personal problems with the guy, I honestly wouldn't have objected to his return had he started things out by being upfront about his identity and asking those he did have altercations with if bygones could be bygones.

Hell, even knowing that he didn't go about it that way, I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. My main concern is community morale (including that of staff).

If there are members who are already here and have actively been here who would be made uncomfortable, that forms the basis of my decision. The impression I've gotten so far is that a significant number of people do feel uncomfortable in this case due to the lack of a good faith approach to mending fences.

That doesn't necessarily mean L doesn't regret anything or wouldn't make a good faith effort. It just means the wrong seed was being planted for the desired result.
__________________
Quexinos wrote: I wish I had been there when Cloud realized he had geostigma. I bet he cried.
hito wrote: man i miss flip phones, they were cool and now everything is a boring slab
The Twilight Mexican is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 3:
Dawnbreaker (12/23/2015), Kermitu Kleric Katie (02/11/2016), The Pyro (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #14
Literally Who?
Default

Cabaret wrote: I think the dupe account was more the only way he could come back in rather than an unwillingness to apologise. AFAIK there really is no other way a banned person could come back. I think if a dialogue is opened with him and this is explained to him, he'd have a very mature response and probably would apologise - though I can't say that for sure obviously.

I think he should be given a change to apologise if that's what his coming back hinges on, I guess it's all about communication and how we best go about it within the confines of this platform.
IIRC he's friends with tons of us on FB. He used to be on mine before I cleared out a lot non-irl friends from it etc. Maybe I'm forgetting something but I don't think it's tough at all for Scott to get in contact with several of the TLS members either through FB or Skype.

All things considered I've always considered L a good friend as far as online friendships go. He's a good guy when you're on his good side for sure. On his bad side? =/

I didn't even realize he made another dupe here. It's not surprising though, getting banned and extending the duration via dupes has been his calling card since the ACF days. It's hard to vouch that he has matured while he's doing things that got him in E-Trouble when he was a teenager.


If he really wanted to come back in earnest and make up for some stuff that happened he could have contacted anyone on FB, IRC , Skype or heck even just used the dupe account to only speak to staff and plead his case. To top it off he knows that he could have done that. That's literally what he has always been told every time he got banned from ACF till TLS and he started making dupes.
Literally Who? is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 4:
Airling (12/23/2015), Joe (12/23/2015), Lex (12/23/2015), The Pyro (12/23/2015)
Old 12/23/2015   #15
Joe
Default

I think it's only fair to point out - on L's behalf - that he has been in contact with TLS members & staff quite a lot over the last year or two. I say this only because a common theme in this thread is "He should have tried to contact staff about having his ban lifted." These attempts have been met with a variety of responses from "Sorry, the staff voted against it" to "lol no." It's only recently when he requested once more to come back to which he was encouraged to make a dupe account as he was more likely to get a fresh start that way.

This isn't to excuse any past behaviour or previous relationships he's had with people. Those things should be made up between the individuals personally. This is only to make it clear that - despite making a dupe account and keeping quiet about it - he has been exploring and attempting the other options for some time now.
__________________

Reject common sense to make the impossible possible!

Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by 5:
Addy Carver (01/05/2016), Cabaret (12/23/2015), Cthulhu (12/23/2015), Kermitu Kleric Katie (02/11/2016), Omega (12/23/2015)
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:41 AM.



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.