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Final Fantasy Tactics All of the Final Fantasy-based tactical role-playing games.

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Old 09/04/2010   #31
Minato
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ForceStealer wrote: Did they have the Zodiac signs on them?

Also, I don't think the Compilation's deficiencies are BECAUSE its focus on one series of events. That is what most series do, after all. Ivalice's appraoch, if anything, simply hides any mistakes they probably would have made because nothing's directly related.
I'd have to disagree with you there. Before Crisis definitely suffers from this. The Player Turks were there when Cid tried to launch his rocket, when Scarlet burned down Corel, when Sephiroth burned down Nibelheim and you how in the minitiare version of Midgar you find in the Shinra Tower one part of Midgar is a little different? They did that too. You aso just happen to run into Yuffie and Red XIII over the course of the game.
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Old 09/04/2010   #32
ForceStealer
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Before Crisis just sucks and would have sucked no matter when it took place, if you ask me

Seriously, things (such as LO) have been more or less disregarded for fewer discrepancies than BC creates. So again, it doesn't suck BECAUSE its still in the same series of events, it just sucks because it sucks.
Fortunately its pretty easy to forget because it was a damn cell phone game only released in Japan.
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Old 09/04/2010   #33
Minato
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ForceStealer wrote: Before Crisis just sucks and would have sucked no matter when it took place, if you ask me

Seriously, things (such as LO) have been more or less disregarded for fewer discrepancies than BC creates. So again, it doesn't suck BECAUSE its still in the same series of events, it just sucks because it sucks.
Fortunately its pretty easy to forget because it was a damn cell phone game only released in Japan.
Sephiroth commiting suicide is harder to live down that everything I said about BC put together. And as an avid anime fan, I can definitely say the artstyle sucked for LO (Case of Denzel looked awesome though).

But anyway, yes. Crisis Core is an example of it done right (more or less) but I am still happy the Ivalice Alliance never really tries to do tie ins with each other.
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Old 09/04/2010   #34
ForceStealer
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But you can at least explain away LO's discrepancies, the "being from the Turks POV," argument. A lame excuse? Yes. However, that's more than you can do for Red XIII having a mate that he jut forgot about in FF7.

Regardless, you're all putting way too much in what I said. I just said the Ivalice Alliance's unconnectedness could be sometimes frustrating. I was the first to admit the Compilation was frustrating for the exact opposite problem and never expressed a desire for the Ivalice Alliance to be setup like the Compilation.

I was just questioning how much Ivalice was planned, because its disconnectedness could allow them to pretty easily just stick any old game in Ivalice. I question how much the Compilation was planned as well, for the record.
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Old 09/04/2010   #35
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ForceStealer wrote: But you can at least explain away LO's discrepancies, the "being from the Turks POV," argument. A lame excuse? Yes. However, that's more than you can do for Red XIII having a mate that he jut forgot about in FF7.
I figure Red was just being emo and stupid and assuming she was dead, honestly.

Regardless, you're all putting way too much in what I said. I just said the Ivalice Alliance's unconnectedness could be sometimes frustrating. I was the first to admit the Compilation was frustrating for the exact opposite problem and never expressed a desire for the Ivalice Alliance to be setup like the Compilation.

I was just questioning how much Ivalice was planned, because its disconnectedness could allow them to pretty easily just stick any old game in Ivalice. I question how much the Compilation was planned as well, for the record.
I think that FFT and FFTA were created without the concept of being linked, but that the rest were, and it does show.


A thought: Who wants to bet Vaan or Gilgamesh are responsible for the Cataclysm? Especially the latter.
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Old 09/04/2010   #36
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ForceStealer wrote: But you can at least explain away LO's discrepancies, the "being from the Turks POV," argument. A lame excuse? Yes. However, that's more than you can do for Red XIII having a mate that he jut forgot about in FF7.
No way, I can buy Cloud ommitting Genesis, the player Turk from his story in FFVII and downplayig Zacks ability because it doesn't have anything to do with anything, Tseng composing a report and deciding to write down that Cloud probably somehow had natural Mako eyes and scared Sephiroth off based on what he found in his investigation is inexcusable, it accomplishes nothing and has no basis. I'll never ever live that stupidity down. WTF
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Old 09/04/2010   #37
ForceStealer
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Sephiroth was known for being unspeakably powerful, its not SUPER unreasonable to assume that the the Turks could not believe what they saw and surmised that Sephiroth must have jumped because its the only that makes sense. I say its a lame excuse because that's not what the creators were trying to do, but if they had been, it would be perfectly plausible.

@Ryu, I certainly hope its not Vaan, lol. And while I love Gilgamesh, it would be a little unprecedented for him to have a major role in a story not his own (V). Do we know how soon after XII the Cataclysm and other things spoke of in Tactics take place?

(Incidentally, I know we're focusing on the 'classics', for the moment. But, due to my love for Tactics, I have tried numerous times to play through XII and tried really hard to like it. I've gotten decently far, but never finished it. Maybe doing a TLS Playthrough one of these days would give me the motivation to do so. *hint hint*)
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Last edited by ForceStealer; 09/04/2010 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 09/04/2010   #38
Minato
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It's the turning Cloud into a mysterious unhuman being out of complete nowhere that strikes me as a uncharactistic leap of imagination on Tsengs part.

Last edited by Minato; 09/04/2010 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 09/04/2010   #39
Ryushikaze
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Well, he defeated Sephiroth, captain Uber himself. What other conclusion would you leap to?

As for the Cataclysm, I figure IF Gilgy's involved, it's because he took something he probably shouldn't have.
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Old 09/04/2010   #40
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Not mention that nothing ever said those were Mako eyes. Cloud was obviously limit-breaking, it could merely be the glow that normally accompanies such outbursts of spirit energy. His eyes kinda glowing a bit is certainly fairly subtle considering the nuclear power plant he becomes in ACC.

And naturally, Ryu, probably some manner of sword that isn't nearly as good as he thought it was.
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Old 09/04/2010   #41
The Twilight Mexican
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JIMMY BROOKS: CRIPPLED VIRGIN wrote: We don't know that, though. It's a good guess, but we don't know.


Don't we, though? We know Ajora's death coincided with a large disaster/cataclysm, we know airships were around up to the time of Ajora's death, and we know airships haven't been around since.

And we definitely know the reason for the espers imprisonment, as it's outlined in FFXII extensively.

Mog wrote: I'm not gonna be completely happy until I know the specifics about the Cataclysm, and some more detail and clearing up on Ivalice's geography would be nice to. Sometimes it's a kingdom, sometimes its a region, sometimes it's a world, yadda yadda. Clear that shit up.
I assume it's been all of those things -- the same way Quebec City was in the county of Quebec (until the county's dissolution) in the province of Quebec.

I am curious, though, whether Ivalice is still the name for a region (or anything larger) by the time it's just a kingdom (FFT) or by the time it's just the town of St. Ivalice (FFTA).

Force wrote: Well, no they're not. I mean, sure, its a very reasonable assumption to make, but they are not "so obviously" so. The look nothing like the stones, they don't behave like them, they summon the Lucavi, but don't require a human host.
You agree that they summon the Lucavi but disagree that they behave like the glyphs? And while they don't require a human host for a summoning, I don't think we should assume that the Zodiac Stones necessarily do require a host.

I'm assuming that by the time the name "Zodiac Stones" applied to them the espers were actively seeking human hosts so that they could conquer and no longer be servants. I wouldn't expect the stones to say "I'll lend you my power if you give me your body. By the way, you can also summon me for free."

Force wrote: A semi-casual player that played both Tactics back in the day and XII would probably never make the connection
I disagree. A semi-casual player would have had their ass trounced so hard and so many times by Velius they would never forget him. So when he shows up in another game and there's another shiny rock involved with bringing him out, they're going to remember.

Oh, yes. They will remember.

Force wrote: And, no, I don't need to know, smartass, I was just asking.
Reported.

ShikamuraNara wrote: Sephiroth commiting suicide is harder to live down that everything I said about BC put together.
Since BC had that garbage too its suckage increases exponentially.

Shik wrote: as an avid anime fan, I can definitely say the artstyle sucked for LO (Case of Denzel looked awesome though).
Am I alone in liking LO's art style? =(

Force wrote: But you can at least explain away LO's discrepancies, the "being from the Turks POV," argument.
No! Bad Force! Stop allowing that bullshit excuse from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania to carry any weight whatsoever!

I've discredited that horseshit so many times. The damn report in front of Tseng in LO even says that the Turks concluded that Cloud killed Seph -- which differs from what's shown onscreen.

SE lied to cover their ass on that one, hoping no one would notice, plain and simple.

Force wrote: A lame excuse? Yes. However, that's more than you can do for Red XIII having a mate that he jut forgot about in FF7.
Agreed. That completely indefensible argument is still more than one can do for the utter fail that Nanaki became.

Force wrote: Regardless, you're all putting way too much in what I said. I just said the Ivalice Alliance's unconnectedness could be sometimes frustrating. I was the first to admit the Compilation was frustrating for the exact opposite problem and never expressed a desire for the Ivalice Alliance to be setup like the Compilation.

I was just questioning how much Ivalice was planned, because its disconnectedness could allow them to pretty easily just stick any old game in Ivalice.
My understanding is that Matsuno had the world history itself all planned out (I love little details like the Occuria's platform being the same as the symbol on the background of the loading screen in FFT), while individual stories developed in their own way. But we haven't heard shit about that since he was forced out of SE.

Ryu wrote: I figure Red was just being emo and stupid and assuming she was dead, honestly.
Because he couldn't ask anybody, right?

But remember: Bugenhagen spoke of him having a mate somewhere as a hypothetical, meaning -- as far as the original game is concerned -- he didn't know shit about her either. There's no excusing this horseshit.

Why do you guys keep trying? =(
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Old 09/04/2010   #42
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Don't we, though? We know Ajora's death coincided with a large disaster/cataclysm, we know airships were around up to the time of Ajora's death, and we know airships haven't been around since.
That would definitely be recorded somewhere if that's the case. Ajora's story is too well known for the Cataclysm to be associated with it and for that event to be a big unknown. It's an assumption, but nowhere near fact.
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Old 09/04/2010   #43
Ryushikaze
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Ariadne wrote: Because he couldn't ask anybody, right?
Being Emo and retarded covers that, yes.

But remember: Bugenhagen spoke of him having a mate somewhere as a hypothetical, meaning -- as far as the original game is concerned -- he didn't know shit about her either. There's no excusing this horseshit.

Why do you guys keep trying? =(
I'm not saying they didn't FAIL, I'm just saying Emotionally teenaged Nanaki acting stupid and fatalistic isn't the failure.
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Old 09/04/2010   #44
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Ariadne wrote: I disagree. A semi-casual player would have had their ass trounced so hard and so many times by Velius they would never forget him.
Well, this is true. Fuck Velius.

However, this "semi-casual" player may well not know enough about Japanese to connect "Velius" and "Belias." So nyah.

Ariadne wrote: Reported.
Meanie-head.

Ariadne wrote: Am I alone in liking LO's art style? =(
I don't think I've ever developed an opinion of it. It looks...like an anime, I dunno. Case of Denzel made everyone's hair look like helmets.

Ariadne wrote: No! Bad Force! Stop allowing that bullshit excuse from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania to carry any weight whatsoever! ... SE lied to cover their ass on that one, hoping no one would notice, plain and simple.
To be honest, I never knew that Square said that at all. I thought it was purely a fan explanation. Still, its easier to accept than anything in Before Crisis, and that was my point. So I stick by it

Ariadne wrote: My understanding is that Matsuno had the world history itself all planned out (I love little details like the Occuria's platform being the same as the symbol on the background of the loading screen in FFT), while individual stories developed in their own way. But we haven't heard shit about that since he was forced out of SE.
And that's cool. When did he do this? Way back when he made Tactics? That would be pretty impressive. Even during Vagrant Story, the mentions of Tactics stuff could easily have been homages.
However, I could fully see him developing this world while making XII though. And FFTA...well, FFTA sucks so I could never be bothered to play through it.

Ariadne wrote: But remember: Bugenhagen spoke of him having a mate somewhere as a hypothetical, meaning -- as far as the original game is concerned -- he didn't know shit about her either. There's no excusing this horseshit.

Why do you guys keep trying? =(
While I must admit I could see Bugen being cryptic about it, I wasn't "trying" anything. I don't really like anything that BC established, Red's mate, Vincent waking up again, shoehorning in every character.
The only thing I kinda liked was the irony in having the Corel reactor destroyed by AVALANCE.
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Old 09/05/2010   #45
Minato
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Ryu wrote: Well, he defeated Sephiroth, captain Uber himself. What other conclusion would you leap to?

As for the Cataclysm, I figure IF Gilgy's involved, it's because he took something he probably shouldn't have.
But you just said that the whole reason they decided that Sephiroth jumped in himself is because they didn't buy that Cloud beat Sephiroth. The ONLY thing that Cloud did in their version is show off his Mako eyes.
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