Where "The Reigning Deity" falls...

[OWA-2]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=224.msg19338#msg19338 date=1234933205]
Where does Genesis say he wanted to wipe humanity from the planet?[/quote]

It isn't directly stated, but implied.

Before the final duel with Genesis Avatar:

Genesis: "The end of the world is brought by the duel of the beasts."

And...

Genesis: Those feelings that surround you are also the gift. Everyone, let's all return to the planet. And of course, you as well---Now I will receive the providence of the planet.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's not what's said in the english version.

Genesis says well all come from and return to the Lifestream. That's not the context of that line. He discusses the concept of spirit energy and how life comes from and returns to the planet, thus, the lifestream is the true, Gift of the Goddess.

 

[Tetsujin]

It would've been disappointing if all he wanted was the end of the world after all.
Enough apocalypses already. It was cool that overall, the story was more kept to a somewhat "personal" level.

 

[Edley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3WBxSCR_c#noexternalembed

From about the 7:30 on he starts jabbering. I guess my question is, what is he hoping to obtain from the Goddess?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Genesis is reciting the pertinent lines to LOVELESS he believes holds the secret to what the Gift of the Goddess is, where it comes from, etc.

Genesis in the end believes the Gift of the Goddess is essentially the power of life. The Lifestream. The giant Red Materia that is a result of the miraculous nature of Banora is what he believes is the true Gift of the Goddess and the cure to his deterioration. Before, he thought the cells of Jenova were also the Gift of the Goddess. Notice how he talks about the Goddess descending from the sky. Jenova. However, when Zack destroyed Hollander, Genesis's chance of using Jenova cells went with him.

Hence, Genesis having to change his "interpretation" of what the gift was, and thus, put his faith in the planet and hope it would be the answer. And sure enough, it was.

"We will all join the lifestream. You are no exception. The planet has become my guardian."

And with this, Genesis states his belief that, as the respective hero of LOVELESS, he has the divine protection of the planet, and challenges his "friend from LOVELESS," Zack, to the final epic duel of the story.

 

[OWA-2]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=224.msg19410#msg19410 date=1234947837]
Genesis is reciting the pertinent lines to LOVELESS he believes holds the secret to what the Gift of the Goddess is, where it comes from, etc.

Genesis in the end believes the Gift of the Goddess is essentially the power of life. The Lifestream. The giant Red Materia that is a result of the miraculous nature of Banora is what he believes is the true Gift of the Goddess and the cure to his deterioration. Before, he thought the cells of Jenova were also the Gift of the Goddess. Notice how he talks about the Goddess descending from the sky. Jenova. However, when Zack destroyed Hollander, Genesis's chance of using Jenova cells went with him.

Hence, Genesis having to change his "interpretation" of what the gift was, and thus, put his faith in the planet and hope it would be the answer. And sure enough, it was.

"We will all join the lifestream. You are no exception. The planet has become my guardian."

And with this, Genesis states his belief that, as the respective hero of LOVELESS, he has the divine protection of the planet, and challenges his "friend from LOVELESS," Zack, to the final epic duel of the story.[/quote]

This is just your interpretation Mako, nothing more.
Like you said he thought the Gift was Jenova because of how he talked about the Goddess descending from the sky, I can easily say that he wanted to destroy the world because of how he talked about the end of the world coming from a duel, moments before his duel with Zack.

Hell, Genesis was trying to "recreate" Loveless, wasn't he? Well, Loveless is full of "the world's end" quotes:

As the war sends the world hurtling towards destruction

If this world seeks my destruction...
... It goes with Me

When the war of the beasts brings about the world's end

This is just poetry, in the end. It can be interpreted in many forms, none of them correct or wrong.
We respect yours, so please, respect ours.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, the Crisis Core Complete Guide apparently shares my interpretation so

Genesis never talked about wanting to end the world, or destroying it. And the creators state that Genesis's entire motivation through the entire game was obtaining the Gift of the Goddess to cure his degeneration. It has nothing to do with destroying the world, and everything to do with saving himself by any means necessary.

His interpretation is what determines his drive, and the creators state he was trying to cure his degeneration. The statement of "If this world seeks my destruction...It goes with me" pretty much states that he'll fight anyone who tries to get in his way and take them with him.

 

[Edley]

Mako's interpertation works for me in the context of CC. The thought of forces as powerful as the Goddess and Genesis not being heard from during the entire Jenova War and AC is kind of tough to swallow though. Also confusing that she shuns him, yet he still gets his wish. I don't think the planet loves Genesis quite the same way he loves it.

 

[Suzaku]

It's not "Mako's interpretation", it's the explanation given in the Crisis Core Complete Guide and the Scenario Q&A from the Crisis Core Ultimania.

Minerva doesn't shun him, her expression was meant to convey the judgment of the Lifestream that Genesis still had a duty to carry out and that he still had much to learn, and that's why the Lifestream fulfills his wish "to surpass death" by curing his degeneration. This leads to his conclusion that his pride as a SOLDIER, regained in fighting Zack, was the true Gift of the Goddess, and ultimately to his decision to seal himself away and await for a chance to protect the Planet in the stead of Angeal and Sephiroth.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/332/the-goddess-minerva-information-from-the-keyword-collection/#more-332

“Genesis wanted to regain his pride as a SOLDIER, deciding that it could not be found simply in the duty of the SOLDIER, he came to the idea that ‘I am not afraid of degradation or death’. In short, Genesis’ circumstances are that of ’surmounting death’. Genesis’ strong desire to ‘complete the duty of a SOLDIER’, was accepted by the Lifestream, in a way saying to him ‘Then complete it’.”

“Minerva’s facial expressions are meant to be hints to the Lifestream’s judgment, such as ‘Genesis has not yet completed his duty as a SOLDIER’ and ‘Genesis still has much left to learn’.”

“Thus, [because of that decision] Genesis was able to achieve his goal of ’surmounting death.’ And this event is connected to Genesis’ future actions”.

The Gift of the Goddess (p. 296)

The object that the three heroes of LOVELESS were searching for. Genesis believed that this object could cure his degradation and thus sought it out, attempting to recreate the conditions of LOVELESS in order to come to the Gift of the Goddess by the conclusion of his plan. However, after fighting with Zack, Genesis came to the realization in his sleep that the “Pride of a SOLDIER” was the Gift of the Goddess.

Yet, the general theory is that the result of receiving the Gift of the Goddess is perpetual youth and longevity which in turn is connected to theories regarding the health benefits of Banora White apples. Moreover, while it is impossible for a person to become ageless, it is proposed that theory can be applied to the Planet, and in this case the Gift of the Goddess becomes “Nothing is wasted in destruction” or “All will be healed in time”.

The Red Globe (p. 275)

A huge red globe held within the bows of a giant tree growing in the Banora underground were light breaks through the cave ceiling. Genesis unexpectedly found this type of materia, and during his “reproduction of LOVELESS” he established that it was “The Gift of the Goddess”. It’s environment is engulfed with the Lifestream, and the power it grants to Genesis can be seen, but the fine details of this process are unknown.

The Divine Protection of the Planet (p. 294)

In Scene10-04 Genesis refers to the Divine Protection of the Planet, meaning the Planet’s Energy AKA the Lifestream. Genesis absorbed some Lifestream into his body, and in that way received the Divine Protection of the Planet, furthering his belief that he represents the hero of Loveless.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/340/crisis-core-ultimania-scenario-qa/

Q6-2: What was Genesis’ objective?

A6-2: His objective was to cure the deterioration. He looked for the way, and as mentioned in A4-2 and A4-3 he took various actions towards that goal. However, as he was unable to take Cloud’s cells, and with the death of Hollander, he lost the way to stop his deterioration, so as his final recourse he turned to the Lifestream.

Q6-3: After Genesis is collected in the ShinRa helicopter you can see a sheet of paper saying “To become the dew that quenches the land; to spare the skies, the seas to sands; I shall become an unspoken offering.” Is this phrase from the lost final chapter of LOVELESS?

A6-3: The final chapter of LOVELESS is missing, and nothing official exists in the world of FFVII. Experts study it, and there are currently various theories about it. The phrase you mentioned is the final chapter of LOVELESS as Genesis conceived it, and reflects Genesis’ state of mind.

By being defeated by Zack, Genesis is able to regain the pride he had as a SOLDIER, and with Sephiroth and Angeal now dead, he decided that it is up to him, who has being left behind, to protect the world. And so, in order to prepare for the day when a crisis threatens the world, Genesis seals himself in the flooded chamber on his own volition. This is the true meaning of Genesis’ version of the phrase from the final chapter of LOVELESS, and at the same time the true meaning of the secret movie in DC (see A7-3).

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

[quote author=Suzaku link=topic=224.msg26843#msg26843 date=1236166873]
It's not "Mako's interpretation", it's the explanation given in the Crisis Core Complete Guide and the Scenario Q&A from the Crisis Core Ultimania.

Minerva doesn't shun him, her expression was meant to convey the judgment of the Lifestream that Genesis still had a duty to carry out and that he still had much to learn, and that's why the Lifestream fulfills his wish "to surpass death" by curing his degeneration. This leads to his conclusion that his pride as a SOLDIER, regained in fighting Zack, was the true Gift of the Goddess, and ultimately to his decision to seal himself away and await for a chance to protect the Planet in the stead of Angeal and Sephiroth.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/332/the-goddess-minerva-information-from-the-keyword-collection/#more-332

“Genesis wanted to regain his pride as a SOLDIER, deciding that it could not be found simply in the duty of the SOLDIER, he came to the idea that ‘I am not afraid of degradation or death’. In short, Genesis’ circumstances are that of ’surmounting death’. Genesis’ strong desire to ‘complete the duty of a SOLDIER’, was accepted by the Lifestream, in a way saying to him ‘Then complete it’.”

“Minerva’s facial expressions are meant to be hints to the Lifestream’s judgment, such as ‘Genesis has not yet completed his duty as a SOLDIER’ and ‘Genesis still has much left to learn’.”

“Thus, [because of that decision] Genesis was able to achieve his goal of ’surmounting death.’ And this event is connected to Genesis’ future actions”.

The Gift of the Goddess (p. 296)

The object that the three heroes of LOVELESS were searching for. Genesis believed that this object could cure his degradation and thus sought it out, attempting to recreate the conditions of LOVELESS in order to come to the Gift of the Goddess by the conclusion of his plan. However, after fighting with Zack, Genesis came to the realization in his sleep that the “Pride of a SOLDIER” was the Gift of the Goddess.

Yet, the general theory is that the result of receiving the Gift of the Goddess is perpetual youth and longevity which in turn is connected to theories regarding the health benefits of Banora White apples. Moreover, while it is impossible for a person to become ageless, it is proposed that theory can be applied to the Planet, and in this case the Gift of the Goddess becomes “Nothing is wasted in destruction” or “All will be healed in time”.

The Red Globe (p. 275)

A huge red globe held within the bows of a giant tree growing in the Banora underground were light breaks through the cave ceiling. Genesis unexpectedly found this type of materia, and during his “reproduction of LOVELESS” he established that it was “The Gift of the Goddess”. It’s environment is engulfed with the Lifestream, and the power it grants to Genesis can be seen, but the fine details of this process are unknown.

The Divine Protection of the Planet (p. 294)

In Scene10-04 Genesis refers to the Divine Protection of the Planet, meaning the Planet’s Energy AKA the Lifestream. Genesis absorbed some Lifestream into his body, and in that way received the Divine Protection of the Planet, furthering his belief that he represents the hero of Loveless.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/340/crisis-core-ultimania-scenario-qa/

Q6-2: What was Genesis’ objective?

A6-2: His objective was to cure the deterioration. He looked for the way, and as mentioned in A4-2 and A4-3 he took various actions towards that goal. However, as he was unable to take Cloud’s cells, and with the death of Hollander, he lost the way to stop his deterioration, so as his final recourse he turned to the Lifestream.

Q6-3: After Genesis is collected in the ShinRa helicopter you can see a sheet of paper saying “To become the dew that quenches the land; to spare the skies, the seas to sands; I shall become an unspoken offering.” Is this phrase from the lost final chapter of LOVELESS?

A6-3: The final chapter of LOVELESS is missing, and nothing official exists in the world of FFVII. Experts study it, and there are currently various theories about it. The phrase you mentioned is the final chapter of LOVELESS as Genesis conceived it, and reflects Genesis’ state of mind.

By being defeated by Zack, Genesis is able to regain the pride he had as a SOLDIER, and with Sephiroth and Angeal now dead, he decided that it is up to him, who has being left behind, to protect the world. And so, in order to prepare for the day when a crisis threatens the world, Genesis seals himself in the flooded chamber on his own volition. This is the true meaning of Genesis’ version of the phrase from the final chapter of LOVELESS, and at the same time the true meaning of the secret movie in DC (see A7-3).

[/quote]

Yeah, it's too bad though...i think if Genesis is going to be in any future gaming or what not he's still going to be a bad guy...unless they for some reason decide to bring Sephiroth back again for the hundreth time.