Animu tangent split from LTD (there are spoilers...you've been warned)

[Gabranth]

Fruits Basket and Fushigi Yugi...


Especially Fruits Basket. Besides Ouran Highschool... it's one of the worst.

I'd take your criticisms more seriously if you weren't named after Ichigo. I could find characters with one line iN FB or FY who had more depth than ichigo.

How about we all just agree that Berserk (seinen) is the best thing ever.

SO, HOW BOUT THAT ACTUAL TOPIC OF THIS THREAD?

So Aerith is kinda like Rukia but not as good and Tifa is like Orihime only way better.

And since we all know it's IchiRuki, Cloud x Aerith it is.

Spoiler

Actually I support Renji x Rukia but who cares about Renji anymore.

 

[Celes Chere]

I could find characters with one line iN FB or FY who had more depth than ichigo.

LMFAO, TRY ME.

PS- Aerith and Tifa are nothing like them, imo.

 

[Splintered]

So Aerith is kinda like Rukia

wat

Tifa is like Orihime

wat

I'm one of those "I like Orihime" camp, but they couldn't be any farther as an archetype. Especially Rukia and Aerith. Once Rukia dies-dies and becomes Bleach-Jesus. Maybe. And that's a tentative maybe. They're not even worth comparing, it's just so different.

 

[Gabranth]

If it wasn't obvious I was using hyperbole about the one line character thing, I was.

Even still, I can pick any main member of the Fushigi Yuugi cast and show how they have more depth than Ichigo. Mainly because Ichigo's personality hasn't changed at all. He's still the same old nice guy, save the girl, sheepish around sex protagonist he was at the start of the series. Grimmjow and Kenpachi gave him a chance for some depth but he steamrolled right passed that. He's not a Blood Knight even though he had some urge to fight Grimmjow. he still mainly came to HM to save Orihime.

And what's changed since then? oh right, he died. Then came back. And guess what happened before that? He died and came back.
So apart from his absolute lack of character development, ichigo has had his ass saved multiple times by Plot Kai.

I can't believe we're even arguing this. Who the heck things Kubo is a good mangaka when it comes to deep characters?

As for Orihime and Tifa...um, childhood friends who love the protagonist but can't spit it out? They're the exact same archetype pretty much.
The only difference is Orihime doesn't like fighting...big whoop. Her entire personality is based around WUV ICHIGO.

 

[Splintered]

I commend you for finding any sort of depth in Fuugi Yuugi without it being some sort of a cliche. I've read some of Yuu Watase's work, they're all the same. And there's not much too them. And that's fine, she delivers what she wants to: a girl centric fantasy where she has some sort of power and gets swept off her feet, some stuff happens with other good looking guys, the plot ends. As long as you take it for what it is and try not to look too much into it.

As for Orihime and Tifa...um, childhood friends who love the protagonist but can't spit it out? They're the exact same archetype pretty much.

No, childhood friends don't automatically fall in the same category. Orihime is an airhead who's extreme personality makes it near impossible for most people to understand her and she's fine with that. When she grows up she wants to be a fucking robot. With missiles. She's also one of the few characters that genuinely despise fighting and is the "pure as snow" characters that would never, say, blow up reactors in a fit of revenge.

Tifa is more maternal, much more reserved, with much more responsibility, and initially much more emotionally dependent (luckily by AC she grows out of that).

 

[Gabranth]

I commend you for finding any sort of depth in Fuugi Yuugi without it being some sort of a cliche. I've read some of Yuu Watase's work, they're all the same. And there's not much too them. And that's fine, she delivers what she wants to: a girl centric fantasy where she has some sort of power and gets swept off her feet, some stuff happens with other good looking guys, the plot ends. As long as you take it for what it is and try not to look too much into it.

I would say most everything in modern fiction constitutes as a cliche. I doubt we'll find a character in a standard shounen or shojo series who hasn't been done dozens of times before.

No, childhood friends don't automatically fall in the same category. Orihime is an airhead who's extreme personality makes it near impossible for most people to understand her and she's fine with that. When she grows up she wants to be a fucking robot. With missiles. She's also one of the few characters that genuinely despise fighting and is the "pure as snow" characters that would never, say, blow up reactors in a fit of revenge.

Orihime's airhead persona dropped after the SS Arc. All through HM she's become nothing more than Little Miss Divine Purity.
"I was abused by these two Arrancar skanks! They're dead now but I'll save them anyway because I'm just that nice."

Ugh.

I'll be honest. I stopped following Bleach after Ulquiorra died. And given what I've heard of Aizen's Villain Stu-ness in the last hundred chapters where he single-handedly beats everyone and anyone (except Urahara last I heard), it looks like I was right to give it up.
Also who said the Espada were numbered 1-10? Cero Espada Yammy is enough to make me loathe the fact I was ever even interested in Bleach in the first place.

 

[Son Goku]

to all the Shonen haters:

 

[Gabranth]

Dragonball was indeed a very good shounen. Mercenary Tao and King Piccolo were better than any of the Big Bads of Z though. IMO anyway.

 

[Celes Chere]

If it wasn't obvious I was using hyperbole about the one line character thing, I was.

Lol, don't worry. I just wanted to see you list any character. Because, Fushigi Yugi's main character cast is shit, except for maybe Nuriko. His story was so sad, and his ending was... *takes out a tissue* Otherwise, it's like Splintered said. It's the same old song and dance, not saying that Bleach isn't repetitive, but at least it doesn't focus on a retarded girl (hate Miaka) with boys oogling over her left and right. Even Nuriko fell in love with Miaka after he decided to let his sister go, and become himself again. Utter bullshit. It's just like fucking Inuyasha, but at least there's ONE tolerable character in the main party.

Ichigo doesn't change much, but that doesn't make him a bad character or rmean that he hasn't been through anything. Since when does youir personality have to change in order for you to have gained something out of life? He clearly matures as time goes on, it's obvious. I like the way Ichigo is anyway, I'd prefer him not to change. He becomes a stronger, better person and I'm fine with that. I like that he's the hero, and has you know, a backstory and MORALS. Miaka is just some selfish skank that stuffs her face with food. Tamahome has the personality of a brick wall. And everyone in Fruits Basket is a pile of shit. The only person that had anything going for him, was Kyo. And that's not really saying much. I like Ichigo, he's not like most guys. He's different.

Just because they have one thing in common, doesn't mean they are the same in personality. Orihime is the exact opposite of Tifa.

Alsooo I love DBZ. Always will. ♥

 

[Eerie]

LOL people mentioned Fushigi Yugi and Furuba as good shoujo and here I am crying. I love both shounen and shoujo - grew up with shounen all the way - but damn, don't mention shitty shoujo will ya?

Read things like Dengeki Daisy, Love Allergy, Venus Capriccio, etc before quoting shoujo.

Also, I feel offended, you dare compare Aerith [a character I hate] to Rukia, my favourite character ever.

And even though Ichigo is a simpleton [from my point of view], it seems that very few fans can get why he act the way he does, and it saddens me. He also went through shit during the HM arc and I feel bad for him [I do love him].

Also, Inoue is NOT the childhood friend; that is Tatsuki. Inoue only knows Ichigo from highschool [she met him once when her brother died and that's it]. I'd like people to stop making that blatant confusion because Ichigo and Inoue have been classmate for less than year.

I love Bleach but Kubo has serious pacing problems, and that's something I've ranted about during years. HM arc could have been halfed and the message still go through.

On shounen, I'd say monthly shounen are usually way better than weekly ones. Hello FMA, Zombie Loan! If you haven't read FMA, I definitely suggest you to read it ASAP. And it's already finished too XD

 

[Gabranth]

Now now. i love Nuriko and agree him loving Miaka was BS. However I interpret it as friendship and thoroughly support Hotohori x Nuriko.

And don't get me wrong. Miaka was the worst thing about FY. But I again point to Nuriko and indeed Hotohori. It was so tragic because, even as I rooted for their love, I knew it could not be. I enjoy royal characters who have to deal with seclusion. not all sob stories have to do with being raped or your family being killed. Sometimes yu have everything...but also have nothing.
Speaking of his relationship with Nuriko, i was very happy Wutase put in a character who looked exactly like Nuriko. Perhaps a bit cheesy but come on... It truly shows Nuriko and Hotohori belonged together and it was just the burden of rule that kept them apart.

Also perhaps this is cheating but as long as the villain is prominetn enough through the story, couldn't you count them as part of the main cast? I really enjoyed Nakago. He was a Complete Monster but within reason. Actually, it was more a case of He Who Fights Monsters Becomes a Monster.

A good story always needs a good villain because it's the villain's actions that primarily determine the course of the plot. Bleach...has not been very good on that front. Aizen is Kubo's Self-Insert and most of the Espada were one-dimensionala dn bland. Curiously, the Espada most oftne attacked for being bland (Ulquiorra) was probably the villain with the most depth in the series.

Bleach had potential. The moral ambiguity of the Soul Society could have been done a lot better. The problem is characterization.
Byakuya was positively an asshole until Kubo wanted us to feel sorry for him. He threatened to kill Rukia, Renji, Hanataro...anyone and everyone who got in his way. Then, oops, it wa sall just an act. I'm sorry but he's a Jerkass to the extreme then just a nice guy with a cold exterior.

Oh and minor note - Ichigo did not beat Byakuya. When you're lying bleeding on the ground and unable to move while your opponent still has the capacity to move away at supersonic speeds...you have lost.

 

[Celes Chere]

Now now. i love Nuriko and agree him loving Miaka was BS. However I interpret it as friendship and thoroughly support Hotohori x Nuriko.

It sure as hell didn't seem very friendly to me, which made me rage because I also loved Hotohori x Nuriko. :< That reminds me, Hotohori is also my other reason for sticking with the series. Fushigi Yugi is so full of dramaz though, it makes your head spin and your stomach feel a little sick. I also hate how Yu puts comedy bits where they do not fit.

Oh thank GOD you agree with that. I can't stand her, and I always felt bad for Yui. I really liked her too, now that I think about it. I was both happy and annoyed about the appearance of someone who looked just like him. XD

Well, I just meant the main group of heros, or whatever you want to call them. xD I do like Nakago, same as how I like Naraku and Kikyo from Inuyasha. But they aren't in the show // focused on as much as the main group of tards, you know?

I'd agree with that. Then again, I like about 5 Bleach characters in total. And that's really it. XD Also, thank you Gaybranth.

DISCUSSION ON A FORUM NO WAAI

 

[looneymoon]

I dislike Bleach, Naruto and Fushigi Yugi. In fact, I hate everything I've ever seen by Yuu Watase, it's all the freaking same. Fushigi Yuugi just happens to be the worst, though arguably her most original work since it was her first.

I love Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin and Fruits Basket. Tohru/Kenshin/Goku maybe Mary-Sues/Gary-Stues but fuck you haters, they inspire me to be a better person. Tohru especially.

Shounen and Shoujo are just as bad and generic as eachother.

 

[Celes Chere]

I actually have no problem with Tohru, she's very cute and sweet. XD And Goku is my favorite DBZ character.



























Besides Trunks. &#9829;

 

[Eerie]

Byakuya is the samurai. He will not act on his feelings, but on what the law says. He's a very rigid character, but where Ichigo won is that he shattered his blade which is his will to fight for his ideals.

I've always loved Byakuya, because I always felt there was more to his character than just a "jerk". He's like a tsundere boy XDDDDDD

On the contrary, Renji's story didn't touch me, and by the end of SS arc, the only thing I thought was.. "jerk, where were you when Rukia needed your support? Why the fuck did you stop talking to her?" And then I got into a fight with RenRuki shippers who felt that Rukia was such an arse for not talking to Renji during years, and that sealed the RenRuki=nono for me [although I have to say at least I don't hate this pairing]. I understand why he was a jerk at first though, being angry that Rukia was snatched away under his nose XD

Aizen is both a good and a bad villain - I feel that it's thanks to Gin that he's more interesting anyway. His interactions with Gin are very interesting to watch. I wouldn't say Aizen's the self-insert from Kubo though - he clearly stated once that when he was in high school, he was more like Ishida. It's good though because he makes the plot move on and explain a lot about Bleach - since that bastard Urahara won't utter a word. XD [No, I really love Urahara, but to make him explain things is... SO FREAKING HARD XD].

Bleach has the strength that it's not relying on the plot - which is why Aizen being Aizen is of less importance - but its various characters. The SS cast is superb, some of my favourite characters are here [Rangiku!! ILU!!!] but yeah, I did feel that the Espada were bland - maybe Kubo didn't want us to get too attached to them since he planned to kill them?

@Karen SMith: go read FMA and STFU. XD

 

[Gabranth]

Well, I just meant the main group of heros, or whatever you want to call them. xD I do like Nakago, same as how I like Naraku and Kikyo from Inuyasha. But they aren't in the show // focused on as much as the main group of tards, you know?

I can agree with that. Though Bleach's main cast and FY's aren't too different. As the series progressed, it became more and more clear in both that it was only two or three people that mattered. Mitsukake and Chiriko both didn't matter after their introduction. That is until they died.

With Bleach, from what I hear, every hero has been rendered obsolete save for Ichigo. Though after Chad was destroyed by Nnoitra, you knew he would never win a fight that mattered.

Also i really like Naraku but I admit that's because I have a weakness for Love Makes You Evil. Or, well, in his case...eviller.

And I hate when people compare him to Aizen. Aizen is far worse.

DISCUSSION ON A FORUM NO WAAI

It's actually a lot more civil than I'm used to. Thanks for being so nice.

 

[Winter]

implying I like shoujo

 

[Celes Chere]

Yeah, if I come off as rude, tell me. I'm really used to joking around on this Forum. xD If I'm pissed at someone I can assure you it won't be because of your preference in Anime characters, lmao. I'm retarded, but not that retarded.

I can agree with that. Though Bleach's main cast and FY's aren't too different. As the series progressed, it became more and more clear in both that it was only two or three people that mattered. Mitsukake and Chiriko both didn't matter after their introduction. That is until they died.

With Bleach, from what I hear, every hero has been rendered obsolete save for Ichigo. Though after Chad was destroyed by Nnoitra, you knew he would never win a fight that mattered.

Haha, I guess that's true enough. I think there are less people that I like in FY than Bleach, though. And it was really hard for me to tolerate BOTH series for awhile. In fact, when I first started Bleach Ichigo and Rukia were the only characters I liked. I was indifferent about Orihime, and everyone else I was like whatevs about. Then it started to grow on me more, and Hime became one of my favorite characters, etc. And you know, after you watch HALF the show, you become invested in it. It may annoy you, but you want the satisfaction of seeing it through to the end, you know? The only show I never did that for was Inuyasha. After Kikyo really did die, I stopped watching it. And episodes before that I barely paid any attention to.

Omg, yes. &#9829; Naraku is deliciously evil, I was always secretly rooting for him in my head. xD I kind of wish that Kikyo would have joined him. That'd have been bad ass. It also give people a REASON to call her evil. Because currently, fantards call her that with no true reason. >>

 

[Son Goku]

This belongs here:
I like the Bleach girls, especially Orihime.
But don`t compare Tifa to anyone she is special!


This I want to add:
Son Goku (me ) is the most awesome Hero in the Universe!
This counts for all the other universes too.

 

[Splintered]

A good story always needs a good villain because it's the villain's actions that primarily determine the course of the plot. Bleach...has not been very good on that front.

Fuugi Yuugi had a terrible villain. At least Aizen commanded presence.

There's more shallow shounen and shoujo than good shounen and shoujo out there. However, there are legitimately well written shoujo's... but Yuu Watase's isn't one of them.

 

[Gabranth]

Yeah, if I come off as rude, tell me. I'm really used to joking around on this Forum. xD If I'm pissed at someone I can assure you it won't be because of your preference in Anime characters, lmao. I'm retarded, but not that retarded.

Nah, you weren't being rude. I'm just a bit gun shy. When you spend as much time on the internet as I do, more specifically on forums, you learn that stating your opinion is a dangerous thing.
Merely saying "I like [insert something]" is more than likely going to result in people calling you stupid.
Sadly this has made me overly defensive.

Still, I had a good time talking with you. ^^ In fact, this is a good tpic all on its own. Hope it continues.

Omg, yes. &#9829; Naraku is deliciously evil, I was always secretly rooting for him in my head. xD I kind of wish that Kikyo would have joined him. That'd have been bad ass. It also give people a REASON to call her evil. Because currently, fantards call her that with no true reason. >>

I prefer Kagome myself. Which is something I felt Takahashi totally dropped the ball on as she never even tried Naraku x Kagome.

I have thought about writing this fanfic a lot but never ot around to it. But the premis eis completely logical IMO.

During one of Inu's and Kagome's earlier spats, like when Kagome sees him making out with Kikyo, have Naraku there too. It's canon he spied on Kikyo.
Now Kagome, vulnerable and wounded, would run into Naraku. Now you see, what attracted Naraku to Kikyo was not only her beautiful appearance but her spirit. She was a pure and radiant spirit.

That spirit is in Kagome now. Even after she turned a bit nicer, the resurrected Kikyo never recaptured her former purity. She still had resentment and malice in her.
So Naraku could see what he loved in Kikyo is now in Kagome.
That's the basic idea.

Mostly it's because Naraku and Kagome were my favorite main IY characters. =P

Fuugi Yuugi had a terrible villain. At least Aizen commanded presence.

Yeah, Aizen was so intimidating. His two facial expressions, his Extreme Makeover and the fact he lived on his throne in a permanent slouch sent chills through my very soul.\

At least Nakago got up and did something for most of the series.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Fuck all of you, since none of you have mentioned Justy Useki Tylor, Kei, Yuri, Kenshiro, or Duke Togo.

Phillistines, the lot of you.

 

[Vendel]

I'm not sure what all these strange sounding terms mean. But I read MAHOU SENSEI NEGIMA!

 

[Son Goku]

Phillistines, the lot of you.

 

[Celes Chere]

@Gabranth-
Yeah, sometimes it can get rather heated over something such as an opinion. xD I guess you've had your fair share of crazy fans. Haven't we all? It seems like the majority of us have, anyway. D'aaw. You too. I agree, I'm really bored and this is kinda helping...

Me... I really did Kagome a fair chance. Like I even tried to force myself to like her. Yeeah, ain't happening. For some WEIRD reason, I liked her paired with Miroku though, LOL. That's very true. Now that you mention that, it'd make sense for Naraku to go after Kagome for that reason. In a way, I think it's twisted-sweet how he stuck to Kikyo. xD

Even Kikyo knows that her being is full of hatred. That's why when she's first being res'd you can hear her voice going "don't call out my name". People really do not understand that she was revived with her feelings of hatred, which explains why she acts the way that she does. It's sad all the hate she gets, because she's a really tragic character. :C I feel so bad for her all the time.