SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 8 Spoiler Discussion

[Theozilla]

One thing I consciously thought, but forgot to mention: Cloud's mom (Claudia, hahaha I love it) looks waaay too young to be his mom. She looks like a sister. Then again, maybe it's just good genes and face cream, who knows.


Bruh. I had a thing for her when she was still a blocky polygon. Now? Oof, please hurt me, Mistress Scarlet.

Don't forget though, that flashback takes place when Cloud is 16 not 21 though. I think someone in their late 30s/early 40s can fit her.

 

[Knights of the Round]

Nintendo finally got their wish. After 23 years.. FF7 has finally launched on the N64.

 

[oty]

LMAO

 

[Makoeyes987]

LOL those texture issues, man...

This game is so gorgeous but certain parts just... the textures, fuck.

 

[Theozilla]

So are they largely loading issues then? Because I can’t imagine the final build of the game had those textures deliberately chosen by the developers for them.

 

[oty]

I mean...I could be wrong, but we have seen these low textures since a long time. Square hasnt been hiding them from promotional material, so yeah. Still hope on a patch tho

Edit: someone on Reddit said Square already stated they know about the texture issues and are working on a patch, but I doubt its true info. Asked for a source and I'm waiting on it

 

[Knights of the Round]

Trying not to be a wet blanket, but this ranks far below the original for me through Ch 8. I agree with IGN’s review of it. It feels like it still needs 2 years of polish and fleshing out, feels rushed. There are some things that feel very refined, and there are some things that feel beta as can be.

I mean, we went from thousands of beautiful hand-drawn backgrounds on the original to N64 quality textures, and we went from a seamless, heart-felt flowing story and a beautiful instrumental soundtrack to a chapter-based system, ho-hum sidequests with schoolboy NPCs like Chadley with his VR battle simulator (wtf) and techno/dance /bluegrass versions of our once beloved songs.

It’s had its moments with the development of Cloud’s persona (which I very much like and admit the side quests with Tifa helped flesh out a bit) and the interactions with Tifa and Aeris and, yes Jairus, Jesse.. but I just haven’t had the urge to skip sleep, meals, bathroom breaks, etc like with the original which I couldn’t be pried away from. They’re not even in the same league for me right now.

In a sense, though, it was probably always going to be that way for me, a letdown. Nothing could pass the original for me. ‘You can’t go back’, as they say. It’ll never be new again.

I’ll still finish it and look forward to seeing what’s ahead. Maybe it’ll get a grip on me, eventually.

 

[oty]

I mean, below one of the greatest games of all time doesnt seem so bad. The original really is special, after all

 

[Odysseus]

I understand where you're coming from, I've had those thoughts while playing too. I think the mindset of "the remake will surpass the original" is a dangerous way to think. This game will never be what the original was, it never had a chance, but that's okay. The remake isn't really trying to be the original, in so many ways it's doing it's own thing entirely. I just think it's so refreshing to see these characters and this world explore in a new light with 20 years of hindsight on the developers part. It's like meeting an old friend and catching up on what's new.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I mean, we went from thousands of beautiful hand-drawn backgrounds on the original to N64 quality textures, and we went from a seamless, heart-felt flowing story and a beautiful instrumental soundtrack to a chapter-based system, ho-hum sidequests with schoolboy NPCs like Chadley with his VR battle simulator (wtf) and techno/dance /bluegrass versions of our once beloved songs.

Texture issues aside (which are real), to imply the level of detail, design, and depth which was conveyed throughout all of the environments of Midgar in this Remake are inferior to the static albeit well designed 2D backgrounds, is the height of misplaced nostalgic bias. Yes, those static, two-dimensional backgrounds were beautifully crafted and exhibited a high degree of artistic talent, for 1997. We're in 2020 game design now. To somehow ignore the actual laborious talent and effort exhibited creating these computer generated models, textures, landscape designs and the plethora of new artistic material to give Midgar a scope far beyond anything imagined in over 10 years, just boggles my mind. You've completely confused the emotional resonance you felt in the past, with the technical skill and talent exhibited here in the present. And now you are somehow expecting a similarly talented work with it's own unique highlights, to fill that requirement which it simply cannot. You feel no attachment to it. These two games inhabit completely different spaces, time periods and exhibit completely different talents in their design and adaptation. And writing off the scale of exploration, character modeling and level design because, like the OG, it had bugs that sadly bled through post production is.... Again, pure nostalgia. Nothing is wrong with nostalgia at all, provided it doesn't make you unable to see the present for the joy and progress it presents.

And I don't even know what to say about everything else. So you hate techno/dance/bluegrass..? What music do you even like? Should the Remake of FFVII in 2020 completely ignore the numerous genres of music and creativity that have emerged since it's creation, just to structurally adhere to something from the 90s? What you take out from the Remake's levels of world building, nonplayer conversations that change throughout the story, characterization of it's secondary characters, it's highly enriching battle system, it's optional bosses and extreme levels of dedication towards creatively composing/scoring a truckload of remixes of "beloved" tracks, is up to you. But carrying that much level of nostalgia appears as nothing but a burden now. To just simply write off what clearly is indicative of the same level of talent, prowess and dedication.

Also, I certainly prefer summons having their own unique lore, combat and in-universe explanation, coupled with uses beyond simply being All-Targeting spells. It beats just finding them on the ground.

In a sense, though, it was probably always going to be that way for me, a letdown. Nothing could pass the original for me. ‘You can’t go back’, as they say. It’ll never be new again.

I honestly do not understand the value of holding such an outlook. Reverence and fondness for those special things from the past is human. It's natural. There are plenty of past experiences that are special and wondrous however you've essentially locked yourself from ever having that type of experience again. But it is what it is.

 

[Jimmy XH]

I’m still loving it. Really enjoyed the interaction with The Turks, Reno in particular.

Any concerns I did have some fears about the VA in this game are gone. The trailer-friendly quotes were just that, trailer-friendly. This is helping add so many dimensions to the way the story is playing out and opening up threads of questions in my head as to where they’re taking it.

It’s the little things too. Finding that materia up near Aeris’ house. OK it may not have been Cover, but I had to afford myself a big smile when I walked round the corner and saw that little purple glow.

I got my first Game Over in the chapter though. Was it Reno? Despite his best efforts, no. Was it Rude? No he was alright to fight against I found. It was in fact King Hedgehog Pie. King. Hedgehog. Pie. Those buffs he gave to his goons really caught me off guard.

 

[Knights of the Round]

Texture issues aside (which are real), to imply the level of detail, design, and depth which was conveyed throughout all of the environments of Midgar in this Remake are inferior to the static albeit well designed 2D backgrounds, is the height of misplaced nostalgic bias. Yes, those static, two-dimensional backgrounds were beautifully crafted and exhibited a high degree of artistic talent, for 1997. We're in 2020 game design now. To somehow ignore the actual laborious talent and effort exhibited creating these computer generated models, textures, landscape designs and the plethora of new artistic material to give Midgar a scope far beyond anything imagined in over 10 years, just boggles my mind.

I couldn't disagree with you more here. I've worked as a game developer, and between today's modern tools like terrain and character generators you can have a fully-realized mockup of a world up in weeks, if not less, with a very small team. World Creator and iClone's Charactor Creator can accomplish these easily, and I'm sure SE has equal if not better tools to use for these sorts of things. I can create 50 fully 3-D modeled characters in iClone with every bit the detail the NPCs in remake have, all with varying features, in a few hours. What once was a 'laborious' thing to do is no longer that way. It's quite easy to do these days.

To better define 'laborious' I'd offer up these candidates:

Climbing up and down a ladder to the weapon shop area in the slums and hearing the same group of NPCs on the rooftop say the same thing 4 times in a row in a matter of minutes. It kills the mood. Since there's so much unprompted dialogue in the game the player's forced to listen to it every time you walk by a particular set of NPCs. And it's not even that I dislike the unprompted dialogue.. it creates a lively atmosphere. But, for heavens sake, could we not give them a few different lines so they're not spouting the same thing at us over and over ad nauseum without choice? They couldn't fit a few extra lines of NPC dialogue in that 100 gigs? It wasn't filled with textures.. that's become apparent from the N64-level textures we're seeing throughout the slums area.

What's 'laborious' is the hotspots being so small that Cloud has trouble pressing buttons or finding levers, or squeezing between objects. You often have to re-position him 3-4 times before he can find a switch or lever.

What's 'laborious' is the camera that, far too often, sways around the scene like a drunken sailor at sea whenever you're climbing or descending ladders, rounding stairwells, or in battle.

None of these things have anything to do with 'nostalgia'; they're simply lack of detail and/or optimization. And, while I agree with you that the original had some mishaps (This guy are sick, etc.) on a whole they were far fewer than Remake's have been so far.

You've completely confused the emotional resonance you felt in the past, with the technical skill and talent exhibited here in the present. And now you are somehow expecting a similarly talented work with it's own unique highlights, to fill that requirement which it simply cannot.

Why can't it? Games have obviously evolved over time, but you can still have games that elicit a similar feel of quality today. For a near-perfect example within the last few years I'd nominate Horizon Zero Dawn. Perfect third-person camera, hi-res textures as far as the eyes can see, no unprompted NPC dialogue that you have to hear over and over ad nauseum, a sky that actually scrolls above you instead of just being printed to your screen (the clouds in Remake do not move; they're a static skybox), easy-to-reach hotspots, etc.

And I don't even know what to say about everything else. So you hate techno/dance/bluegrass..? What music do you even like? Should the Remake of FFVII in 2020 completely ignore the numerous genres of music and creativity that have emerged since it's creation, just to structurally adhere to something from the 90s?

Never said I "hated" techno/dance/bluegrass. I happen to like both techno and dance a lot.

There are some they've evolved well, such as the reactor music and Wall Market, which are nice modern touches on the originals. Others not so much. Just about every track on the original was beautifully composed and unique for its time. There are many tracks on Remake that are simply filler and very similar to background music you've heard in dozens of games already, with no emotional pull one way or the other.

This one's a more difficult one to discuss, however, as it often comes down to personal tastes. My comment had absolutely nothing to do with me disliking techno or dance, however.

Also, I certainly prefer summons having their own unique lore, combat and in-universe explanation, coupled with uses beyond simply being All-Targeting spells. It beats just finding them on the ground.

Summons are better implemented. Boss battles as well. These are two things that they did a great job with. The voice acting for the main characters has also been much better than I anticipated it would be, and that was a significant accomplishment for them.

 

[ForceStealer]

I really enjoyed both Turk fights. I happened to do pretty well on both of them, so it really felt like Cloud making good on his First Class claim. Very satisfying Poison and Punisher-mode counters worked very well for both of them. And the trailer warning to have Aerith start dodging when Rude spins Cloud around was helpful Was able to finish them both off with Cross Slash too!

I got my first game over, actually, on a sidequest. It was the fight with the multiple smoggers when you're rescuing the kids in the creek. That was a pain, haha. I really thought I was going to get my first on Airbuster but managed to pull that one out. The big smogger in the other quest was a fight that went pretty well, though I did have to babysit Aerith a bit (Back up! You're a caster!) That Arcane glyph thing that let's you double-cast is AWESOME. Worked great for that fight and Shiva.

I first tried Shiva with Cloud alone. I got her about halfway down, but didn't want to blow through items for a VR fight and lost. And figured I'd just wait until I could do it with a team. Almost waited until I had 3, but decided to try with Aerith right before going back to her house and it went much better. Fire-Elemental on the Buster Sword and double-casting Fira's from Aerith worked wonders.

Crazy how much more materia you have in this, and how much more than you can reasonably use at any one time. That'll be good for replay value, using different setups.

The earlier flash to the Whirlwind Maze had me thinking that there were just some clones already there (especially that guy's number being so high), but it's obvious now we're seeing the future. Iiiiiinteresting.

 

[Shademp]

- I'm guessing Rude will revert to his silent self once he's with Reno. No need for Rude to talk when Reno is there to be a chatterbox.

- My headcanon is that the wooden swords designed by the kids are based on the Buster Sword, years back when Zack roamed Sector 5 with Aerith. The design got passed down from kid to kid over the years and the current youngsters have no idea of the significance, background and uniqueness of this sword design.

- After defeating a Smogger, an event with Aerith prompted that Cloud could only walk but not run. The result was that Cloud got caught in the Smogger's self-destruct explosion. Actually, this has happened to me TWICE, so even though I knew the self-destruct was happening I had no way to avoid it. That's just unfair.

- Highly subjective impression incoming: I haven't played many modern AAA video games, but my overall impression has been that Square does not measure up to whoever might be deemed the top-three developers of large-scale, high-fidelity AAA games in the world. Square has their strengths and weaknesses (for a multitude of reasons: video game design is notoriously complicated and difficult) but I never expect them to be the best of the best. For countless years I had no faith that Square could ever even hope to approach the Remake project due to multiple examples of incompetence from the company. I still have doubts about whether they'll be able to maintain momentum and actually complete the Remake series in great quality. But to me it's a miracle that FFVIIR exists at all in this current state, warts and all.

So the criticism of Square not optimizing their game is warranted but I'm also counting my blessings when it comes to Square Enix. That's how I decide to roll. I hope that, at some point, we will gain more insight into the development pipeline for FFVIIR and what might explain both the good and the bad.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I couldn't disagree with you more here. I've worked as a game developer, and between today's modern tools like terrain and character generators you can have a fully-realized mockup of a world up in weeks, if not less, with a very small team. World Creator and iClone's Charactor Creator can accomplish these easily, and I'm sure SE has equal if not better tools to use for these sorts of things. I can create 50 fully 3-D modeled characters in iClone with every bit the detail the NPCs in remake have, all with varying features, in a few hours. What once was a 'laborious' thing to do is no longer that way. It's quite easy to do these days.

....You do realize that is an incredibly bold claim, right? I'm less than inclined to believe such an assertion, not just because you're someone simply stating their capability over the internet. There's no evidence of yours to back it up. Forgive me for not willing to defer to your claimed level of talent, without any supporting evidence here. And with all due respect, if it were so simple as you say, then games like these would not have issues at all and be released like clockwork; and I didn't just limit my claim to the NPCs. I meant all the characters. Main characters, enemies, monsters, etc. So yeah, I guess those main character models, CGI scenes, etc just made themselves. Anyways, you've sorta falsely equivocated there. So, not really buying what you're saying at all.

To better define 'laborious' I'd offer up these candidates:

Climbing up and down a ladder to the weapon shop area in the slums and hearing the same group of NPCs on the rooftop say the same thing 4 times in a row in a matter of minutes. It kills the mood. Since there's so much unprompted dialogue in the game the player's forced to listen to it every time you walk by a particular set of NPCs. And it's not even that I dislike the unprompted dialogue.. it creates a lively atmosphere. But, for heavens sake, could we not give them a few different lines so they're not spouting the same thing at us over and over ad nauseum without choice? They couldn't fit a few extra lines of NPC dialogue in that 100 gigs? It wasn't filled with textures.. that's become apparent from the N64-level textures we're seeing throughout the slums area.

Because the NPCs in the OG didn't say the same thing when talking to them before, right? And if it's such a mood killer, turn the volume of the voices down. That is an option the game affords you. For someone who claims to be in game design, you must think vocal talent just grows on trees and they can just get pluck the lines off it for free. Interesting.

What's 'laborious' is the hotspots being so small that Cloud has trouble pressing buttons or finding levers, or squeezing between objects. You often have to re-position him 3-4 times before he can find a switch or lever.

....Cloud is drawn to the hotspots he needs to be in, to hit a switch. I've never seen any problem with that.

What's 'laborious' is the camera that, far too often, sways around the scene like a drunken sailor at sea whenever you're climbing or descending ladders, rounding stairwells, or in battle.

What. The camera does none of that, but okay dude. Whatever you say.

None of these things have anything to do with 'nostalgia'; they're simply lack of detail and/or optimization. And, while I agree with you that the original had some mishaps (This guy are sick, etc.) on a whole they were far fewer than Remake's have been so far.

The OG had way more than that. You clearly are uninformed.

 

[Theozilla]

The earlier flash to the Whirlwind Maze had me thinking that there were just some clones already there (especially that guy's number being so high), but it's obvious now we're seeing the future. Iiiiiinteresting.

Really? I figured since there weren't any Whispers around during the encounter with the #49 Sephiroth copy, that it just the former situation and not the latter.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Really? I figured since there weren't any Whispers around during the encounter with the #49 Sephiroth copy, that it just the former situation and not the latter.

I started to respond to this here and realized it's spoilery for further along, so I'm going to reply elsewhere. XD

 

[Rydeen]

I missed Reno’s first line because I was too busy reflexively shouting and clapping (and thus scaring the shit out of my dog).

“Should we mosey on over?” “Let’s” - i c wut u did thar

I have a feeling I’m losing points with her, because I accidentally stepped on the flowers while fighting Reno and later accidentally almost abandoned her.

Escaping the church and skipping across the rooftops pummelled me with an overwhelming wave of feels, about as much as the opening did, for some reason.

Rude is smooth as fuck. Soakette is gonna lose it. He was actually pretty verbal, but there wasn't any Renos around to do the talking.

The sidequests made me groan repeatedly. I won't shy away from a good minigame, but all side quests in RPGs are the same to me. I missed Shiva without realizing it, got pissed off with the graveyard battle and left, but I did get the Nailbat and the boots, which were useful against Rude.

I wasn't that big a fan of this chapter (Aerith's endless lollygagging just got on my nerves), but I played for 8 hours straight yesterday, went to bed for 8 hours, and then played again for 6 hours before hitting Chapter 8, so my patience had worn thin. Maybe I should slow down.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I stayed up all night, and switched off after fighting smogger when i realised none of it was making even the slightest sense any more and also my body was shaking and my vision was going crosseyed. For this reason, i didn't enjoy the rooftop sequence.

I just don't know what I think about Reno. I wish he was less groomed. He got his ass handed to him, but I had to fight for it. I like how he explicitly warns the grunts not to hurt Aerith. In the OG they were spraying bullets everywhere and didn't seem to care if she lived or died. Obstinatemelon spoofed that brilliantly in his comic.

 

[Odysseus]

I stayed up all night, and switched off after fighting smogger when i realised none of it was making even the slightest sense any more and also my body was shaking and my vision was going crosseyed. For this reason, i didn't enjoy the rooftop sequence.

I just don't know what I think about Reno. I wish he was less groomed. He got his ass handed to him, but I had to fight for it. I like how he explicitly warns the grunts not to hurt Aerith. In the OG they were spraying bullets everywhere and didn't seem to care if she lived or died. Obstinatemelon spoofed that brilliantly in his comic.

In the original Japanese version of 7, he actually does lambast the troop that shoots at her. It got lost in translation.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I fucking hate Chadley.
I'm going to write a fanfic in which Hojo tortures him to death.

 

[Rydeen]

Reno is fast. I could barely get any hits on him, even magic attacks. Half the damage he took was from my limit breaks.
Also, Chadley is pretty annoying I guess. But I got some cool cheap materia from him, so he's aight in my book.

 

[Odysseus]

I fucking hate Chadley.
I'm going to write a fanfic in which Hojo tortures him to death.

Since Obstinate Melon and I became internet pen pals somehow, I was kinda half jokingly wanting to try to convince him to add a page where Chadley shows up only to immediately get killed. I hate him so much lol.

 

[Teioh]

I don't see the point of having included Chadley in the remake. There's no substance to him, no interesting backstory, no new insight into Shinra. All of his battle quests for materia could have gone to more interesting quests. I'm just not a fan of 'do this thing in battle and get awarded,' kinda quests. I don't know, maybe completing all his requests will open up a scene where he'll miraculously become interesting or something. I can't complete a couple of them so I guess I will never know.

 

[Rydeen]

Something is bothering me. Is anyone else at approximately this point and concerned about pacing/filler? I'm hoping my vibes are unjustified. I've been feeling this here and there since Chapter 4.